Never thought I'd be here....

[notme15]

I am 46 and we are coming up on our 16th anniversary. I have 2 kids aged 11 and 12. My husband has been verbally abusive for most of that time and early on had put his hands on me or used other physical intimidation. The physical part consisted mostly of grabbing my arms or pinning me down but in 2007 I did call the cops because I had enough. I let him back because I believed he changed and he never did use physical force against me again but the triggers and anger was still there. I guess over the last 12-18 months I had been working through emotionally separating.

 

Many people around us find him controlling, angry and demanding.

 

In July 2014, he got so mad at me that he threw all my clothes in my car and took my phone. I left and went to my moms for a night or two.

 

In Nov 2014, we had an argument where I told him I felt trapped and I really didn't care if we stayed together which was huge as I was always saying we can work it out. I asked him "Are you the husband you would want your daughter to have?" That shook him.

 

In mid Feb 2015, I fell into a 1 month emotional relationship with a married man. We talked on the phone, he was clear he would never leave even though he was very lonely with his wife, I did meet him once but would not accept a kiss, I tried many times to break it off but I would call him right back. In that month, I withdrew from my husband and family, drank alot and was only happy when I was talking to this other man. He appeared to be everything my husband was not: relaxed, caring, confident, and witty. Our relationship was in many ways like being in high school. There was only discussion of kissing and what the hell this weird relationship was and what we were getting out of it. I didn't realize how shut down I was in so many ways in my marriage.

 

At the end of Jan, my husband reached out to my dad for help. Husband felt that he was loosing me. He was working very hard on being a better husband, one that he would want his daughter to have. Husband is insecure and has trust issues. He views the world very black and white and is always trying to be a better person. So for a while he was 'improving' while I had my distraction of OM. His reactions to his triggers were reduced but we were still having big arguments over little things. Finally he had an 'aha' moment that much of our relationship was about me trying to meet his needs for him to feel confident.

 

So after I got caught, I went NC but about 1.5 weeks later we did some FB stalking and had a few directed FB posts even though we were unfriended. We both post 'public.' We both knew each other was still there and this was still tearing me up because I so wanted to be friends with him and believed I could somehow navigate this non physical but emotional relationship.

 

Finally Friday (4/3), I made a decision that I am going to try to work it out with my husband. I told him about the FB posts. So while it is very clear that I am committed to working on our relationship I still think about this OM and as I'm told that I need to be honest I tell husband who is really, really struggling. I can understand that this is probably the worst thing I could do to my husband. I am sorry but I can't say that I regret it. Husband finds that unacceptable.

 

Last night in a big fight, he told me I was 50% to blame for the last 16 years of problems and my issues were equal to his abuse. I can take fault where I have it but struggle with us being 50/50. Now he is blaming me with my EA for the troubles we are having. He can't accept that I still think about this guy. I do feel it slipping farther and farther with NC but struggle with how to communicate this. Last night husband threatened divorce (old behaviors of threats and running) and I feel indifferent to fighting anymore as that is what I've done for 16 years. He did apologize this morning and feels that once we get past this issue we should be able to work through anything. I don't want to break up my family but I struggle with wanting to really try anymore in this marriage. I do question it but feel that I HAVE to keep trying now that he's seen the error in his ways. My daughter is suffering greatly. Today I really feel kind of tired and empty again but I am not thinking about running to OM now. However we (OM) always left it that "you never know what the future would bring" and "I'll always answer the phone if you call" but I don't want to do that if he is still married and not even sure that there is something in a 'real' setting. We always joked that in 7 years when our kids graduate HS we would get together and somewhere I have that in the back of my head.

 

We are in MC and my dad is trying his best to be neutral. Husband does generally respond to dad. I am also going to individual counseling however I am not sure how much that is helping me. MC seems to be OK. My dad has stopped many of times for my husband to end the marriage but my dad won't be around all the time.

 

Any thoughts or comments or suggestions with what to do? There is probably so much more I could say and maybe I said too much. I am still so confused and lost.

[Friskyone4u]

Not Me,

 

You need to make the decision, and it is yours, if you really want to reconcile and rebuild your marriage. if the answer is yes, it has to be done with honesty and you need to get this OM out of your head. Right now, you are using the thoughts of how perfect he is to magnify your husbands faults. I am NOT saying you husband does not have fault.

He stated one thing that is true. He owns at least 50% of your marital problem, but you own your EA 100%. And if you keep falling back on how wonderful OM is any time your husband pisses you off, or you argue, you need to get divorced and do whatever makes you happy.

And if your husband knows the truth about your EA, and he should or you are still cheating, then you better expect some rough patches because an EA qualifies as an affair, and sometimes can be as damaging as a PA, which is where you are headed if you do not stop the FB stalking and "pining" for OM as a remedy for everything wrong in your life.

You husband, with all his faults, has no reason to totally trust you right now so you need to accept that there are some consequences to what you chose to do, regardless of the reasons.

[notme15]

I'd like to add that my husband would regularly threaten to leave the marriage. I never believed him because he is too afraid of being alone. My response always was:

 

- Just a different shade of brown out there

- We will still have to co-parent so better to make it work in marriage

- If we don't solve our issues we'll just repeat it in the future

 

I believed all these. I do feel that I am standing up for myself a little more now and telling him to stop and he is responding. I do find him very, very intense and that is intimidating for me. Part of me believes the above but not sure how much I emotional support I have to give. Today I can't muster up anything to say any of the above but I was able to Saturday. Tomorrow?

[oldshirt]

These are issues for your MC and IC.

 

This is like having cancer and asking an internet forum what to do. The answer to that is do what your doctor says.

 

 

You have deep, long term, chronic marital issues and personal issues that require professional intervention and guidance. You will need professional help whether you divorce or reconcile. Counseling may even help you decide if you are going to put your energies into leaving and starting a new life or trying to stay and work things out.

 

Either option will take a lot of time and effort. This has been brewing for 16 years, it's not going to be fixed any time soon.

[Mr. Lucky]

We are in MC and my dad is trying his best to be neutral. Husband does generally respond to dad. I am also going to individual counseling however I am not sure how much that is helping me. MC seems to be OK. My dad has stopped many of times for my husband to end the marriage but my dad won't be around all the time.

 

Agree with Oldshirt, the history and complexity of your marital issues - including why you'd put up with this for 16 years OR think an EA would help - defy easy analysis or feedback. If you trust your therapist, act on his advice. If you don't, find another.

 

But why is your Dad so involved? You're a big girl, these are your problems and it's difficult and unproductive for naturally biased family members to be involved...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Poppygoodwill]

God, you must be exhausted. You sound exhausted, and I don't blame you.

 

Of course you had the EA, and that's on you. But don't let him deflect things onto you, as if all the years of his abusive behaviour are a distant second to your one month EA. It would be consistent with an abusive personality that he would try to make it your fault somehow to take the spotlight off himself.

 

It occurs to me that you're already basically emotionally gone, finally, after all those years of trying and holding out hope and being the one with the faith - despite it all. The mere fact that you were able to attach emotionally to this other man is the sign that you've just had enough and have separated yourself - almost without realizing it perhaps. The EA is just the symptom of it; the sign of the truth in your heart.

 

You should continue with your MC, if only to help give yourself clarity and self-awareness. But it seems to me that it might be better for you and your kids, to find your way out of htis marriage.

 

He pushed it so far that you had to ask him: are you the husband you'd want for our daughter?

 

IMHO You should also ask yourself: is he the father you want for your daughter?

[Satu]

Pardon me for being blunt, but you are in a *failed* marriage.

 

It's not a matter of tinkering with it, or making some improvements and things will be ok.

 

For it to continue, it needs to be rebuilt from the bottom up.

 

Reinvented.

 

You will have to decide if you have the appetite for such a task.

 

I don't think I would, and I'm a bit ashamed to say so.

[autumnnight]

OP, it sounds like you lived through a lot of years of hell.

 

Sadly, in internet land, the fact that you emotionally cheated magically cancels out all your years of abuse.

 

Except it doesn't.

 

Your emotional affair that lasted a few months was wrong.

 

His 16 YEARS of abuse was just as wrong.

 

End. Of. Story.

 

Honest question: why fo you want to stay?

[starglider]

Dear Notme15,

 

Sorry you are going through this and it is especially difficult when you are a parent.

 

In my own EA recovery I've found the concept of codependency very useful for me. "Codependent No More" was a great book on the topic, and there are free CODA meetings (a 12 step program for people who have poor boundaries in relationships - often being the rescuer of others, wanting to be rescued in an EA themselves, and feeling guilty for wanting to leave partners who have issues). You'll know when you read more if it resonates with you or not.

 

In my own thinking, MC is not so useful unless you both are sure you want to stay in the M. Whether you stay in the M or get a Divorce, you will need to be stronger on your own without deriving strength from others, so IC is bound to help you. M limbo is strange and unsettling, but you get used to it, especially when you get stronger yourself. You'll quickly see how much easier it is to live in the moment (and as a parent) instead of feeling shame for the past and fear for the future.

 

It sounds like you aren't obsessing too much over the EA - so that is already a healthy sign.

 

Best wishes.

[truncated]

The only thing I can say is that it sounds like your husband has some deep seated issues that are going to take a long time to resolve, if he ever can.

 

We are all products of our pasts, and develop coping skills that can sometime be really unhealthy, event though he may work over the short term, kid of like sticking a band aid over a gaping hole. That's what your husband has been doing, and by having an affair, you have done it too.

 

 

In the end, the most important thing in all of this is the environment your children are in and what they are leaning from it. Ifit was justa couple of arguments, it wouldn't be so bad. All couples argue some point, and there is nothing wrong with kids seeing that you can disagree with your spouse but still love each other.

 

 

Your situation is different. It's a toxic environment. he treats you badly, and you are having an emotional affair. None of that is good for your kids, and chnages need to be made. The problem is, right now, it doesn't sound as if either of you are capable of making those changes. It sounds like it would be best for thetwo of you to separate, at least for now, and try and find a way to co-parent together in a way that is best for your kids.

 

During that time, you can maybe have marital therapy and individual therapy to see if your marriage can be salvaged, and if it can't, they may still be able to help you uncouple on the best terms possible.

[notme15]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]So I do own that my EA was 100% mine to own and while I knewhow wrong it was I could never stop it.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]Ibecame alive again and someone was listening and caring about me.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]He was my child’s sports coach and I think ifI really admit it I had a crush on him for a while and somehow eventually weboth engaged even though it was just 1 month.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I struggle because I do not feel regret or remorse.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]IC said that it was OK to not feel regret buthusband is concerned that I don’t feel regret and I think I am too.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I never thought I would have done anythinglike have an EA, I clearly can’t emotionally handle it and believe I won’t dosomething like that again.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I certainlydon’t want to make any decision to leave because of an EA because that is not atrue decision in my mind so need to continue NC.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]If EA was meant to be it will happen at somelater time.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I understand that husbandwill be insecure especially since this is the worst thing I could have done tohim with his insecurities and lack of trust.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]He’s told me thousands of times that he’d prefer I’d leave than have anaffair.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]He said he would not take meback and he said if I kissed OM he’s not sure he’d be able to handle it.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I’ve had no contact with OM for 1 week and weare blocked on FB.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]After that fight theother night I am feeling weak but trying to stay NC.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I do think about how or when to discretely ornot so discretely contact him but have not done so.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I do believe that would be selfish on my parteven though OM said he’d always pick up the phone for me and he was able compartmentalize.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]My dad and the MC (who we saw a few years ago) feel likehusband has made substantial changes and are very impressed.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]They both feel confident in us.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I too see changes but question how deep theyare when they took 44 years to grow.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]Can’tpossibly change in a few weeks or months, can he?[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]Trust has always been an issue for him and I’vejust rocked his world on that.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]My husband is very caring, generous andhelpful to people but sometimes it is smothering. [/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I see he is generally saying and doing the ‘right’thing now but wonder if it is an act and I think only time will answerthat.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]He says sometimes that he wants to pinchhimself that I chose him and that comment makes me uncomfortable.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]My dad is involved at my husband’s request and 80% of workhas been between my dad and my husband.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]It has been helping as there is mutual respect but this was justrecently built.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]Husband rejected myparents for all these years because they weren’t what he expected.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]We had a very American family where we wereindependent and asked for help when needed but no one forced themselves onothers.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]Husband grew up in ethnic home,moved straight from home to me, family has no boundaries, controlling motherand disparaging father.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]He was the babyof the family and his father suffered a stroke when he was 6 which I think hada huge effect on the family.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]My parents were married for 30 years and my dad left my momfor another woman.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]My parent’srelationship was kind of like mine.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]Mymother is emotionally needy and insecure and my dad I think likes to beneeded.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I was 30 when they divorced butit didn’t surprise me as they were like 2 ships passing in the night.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]My dad’s 2[/sIZE][sIZE=2]nd[/sIZE][sIZE=3] marriage wassuccessful but dad is now a widow.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]Myhusband is looking to get my dad’s 2[/sIZE][sIZE=2]nd[/sIZE][sIZE=3] marriage which is why he wentto him.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I see my dad’s second marriageas a little put on and over the top.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]Irealize if we want to make our marriage work it must be what works for the 2 ofus.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I think husband and I have been tocounseling 3-4 times over the length of our marriage but nothing seems to have workedbut not sure he was ready to hear.[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]I know I partially got here because emotionally my husbandis like my mother – insecure and needy.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]When I met my husband I was coming out of a relationship and talking tosomeone about the concept of codependency, [/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I don’t think my current IC is I working so Iwill try another.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I am reasonably OKwith M limbo but husband freaks out the moment I show any signs of withdrawal.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]Sosince argument I’ve been withdrawn and husband is begging me to ‘come back.’[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]I see how much work it will take to rebuild and I get scaredand overwhelmed.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I wonder whether I cando my part or how much the environment and history will affect my ability (i.e.would it be easier with someone else like my dad found).[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I wonder if it is worth it to keep the familyintact; my siblings were in college when my parents divorced.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I am not at all worried financially and livedalone for almost 10 years before I married him so I know that I will be OK ifwe split.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]My biggest worry is my kids’wellbeing and making sure they can stay at their private school.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]We just switched them and they are getting somuch out of it I never even expected.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I would want to try to keep changes to aminimum for them.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][sIZE=3]I know there is toomuch here and I’ve painted a one sided picture.[/sIZE][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]

[Friskyone4u]

Not Me

The advice you have gotten is good . But you have two important decisions you need to make . The first one is do you want to stay married?? If the answer is no the file for divorce.

If the answer is yes , then you need to commit to yourself that there is no more EA and you stop communicating with this other man . No negotiation because your husband is not going to accept that. Now since you say he won't leave you because he does not want to be alone . That may be the reason you think it is ok for you to continue this so called friendship with OM. To soothe you in hard times . It ain't going to work that way.

And until you sort that one out a separation is not going to do any good if your husband believes you are continuing to to to this OM.

You need to decide if you want to give both of you the opportunity to heal this thing. That's what the MC is for if you do

I don't accept his emotional abuse as being negated by your EA. But it is also not an excuse to continue on with it. You don't get to reconcile and have other men in your life.

[Mr. Lucky]

In my own thinking, MC is not so useful unless you both are sure you want to stay in the M.

 

I disagree with this but may be somewhat dependent on the therapist. Assuming it's the best option, a good one can help you structure a better separation and divorce...

 

Mr. Lucky

[notme15]

Friskyone4u - totally agree with everything you said. I know that I have to make some decision. I have to either choose my husband 100% or leave. OM shouldn't even play into decision. Some times I feel strong to stay and other times I feel weak to stay. I keep saying time to get through EA and see changes will tell whether I can be 100% committed to my husband.

[Friskyone4u]

Well, the. Cut the EA out and try to save your marriage . But until your husband believes you have stopped it you are not moving forward. What you have to accept is not only did you engage in an EA, but you actually took the next step and met the OM in person . The fact that you only kissed is not relevant . Look yourself in the mirror and admit you cheated and have been caught . You are not going to see marked improvement in your husband until to prove to him through transparency and NC that you Re "all in" . I'm sorry but what happened 15 years ago is history. Your infidelity is the present reality.

If you have not read the book "not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass you need to get it asP. It should help you understand why being "friends" with your OM is not going to happen if you intend on staying married and the sooner you get that out of your head the better off you will be.

You are wasting your money in MC until your husband can go there and feel like he is not being asked to just hope you have stopped contacting this OM. You can convince him of that if you want to with a NC communication that he sees and approves of. It should NOT leave any doubt that he is not to contact you any more.

Good luck. I hope you do the right thing

[mrs rubble]

I have been in 2 abusive relationships, the first I was verbally and physically abused for 4 years, the second relationship lasted 7 years of verbal abuse directed at me and physical abuse directed at the children.

 

I've now been away from the abuse for 10 years and I will never put up with any form of abuse ever again.

 

These men still today (10-20 years later) are both abusive, despite anger management, counselling and prison time. IMO abusers are very difficult to change.

 

It took me a long time to retrive my self esteem after I left the abuse, but I'm a much happier person and a much better parent.

My children suffered a lot from the abuse and the healing from this has been a hard slog, but I'm thrilled to report both my boys have grown into sensible, non-violent, caring young men.

 

You need to think long and hard about staying with an abuser, I know it's not easy to leave the father of your kids, but sometimes it's in their best interests to do so.

Do you really want your children to grow up believing that it's normal to call people names?

Do you want your children to start treating you with disrepect too?

The message they are getting now is that you are ok with being verbally abused because you allow their father to do it to you, it's only time before they mimic his behaviour.