New here..need some perspective

[Hyacinth56]

I don’t even know where to begin. I’ve been reading and reading here the past few days. This is the first forum where I feel safe posting.

 

I’m a mess. I have been involved with a MM for 12 years. Yes folks, that’s right. Twelve years. I can hardly believe it myself.

 

I’ll give you a brief history – We are both in long term marriages. I have 2 grown children. I’m 59 he is 53. He has no children. I cringe when I type this, but we met online

 

Over the course of 12 years we have spent a lot of time together. We work close by and see each other every day for lunch and we often get together after work for coffee and lately we have begun going to the gym together. He calls me on the way to work in the morning – if we are each able to, we get together for lunch - one of us brings lunch and we eat in the car or we go to a local restaurant. After we have lunch, he calls me on the way back to his office. After work if we are able to get together we might have coffee or just chat in the car for a few minutes - he will call me on his way home.

 

We talk on the phone at a pre-arranged time on the weekends.Occasionally, we have gotten together on the weekend – but rarely. He buys me something nice at Christmas, always remembers me with candy on valentine’s day and takes me out to eat on my birthday. We have a lot in common and never lack for conversation. He is handsome, funny, intelligent, thoughtful and a good listener. We have “alone” time about 2-3 times a month. He is always a gentleman

 

I enjoy his company, I care about him – I know that he cares about me. Neither of us wants to leave our marriage. Neither of our spouses has discovered the affair. He spends a lot of time with me and 99% of it is initiated by him. Several years ago he purchased phones for us to use so thatthere would not be a paper trail. We never speak on the phone in the eveningsor when we are home, etc. We also never ever email or text.

 

But I want out. I don’t know who I am anymore. I’m a liar and a cheater, that’s who I am

 

This relationship is draining the life out of me. Most of the time I am happy but I’m living two lives and not really living either one of them. And here’s a newsflash – I don’t trust him

 

 

Without going into a lot of detail, at one time or another over the years I have suspected that he was talking on the phone with someone else – at one point I even had solid proof of it. I would approach him with mythoughts in a very non-defensive, calm way – but each time he would convince me it wasn’t true and sometimes even give me such a lame excuse that it was ridiculous. Any time I have tried to end it – he becomes emotionally upset, almost frantic and in a panic and ..I just can’t go through with it.

 

Months and months would go by and I would get comfortable again and forget about it. I would rationalize things, ..”..so what, he talks to someone else occasionally…..big deal”

 

I’ve never felt that he was physical withsomeone else – perhaps just talking now and then – but - I even told him once “married men, who have already crossed the line..aren’t looking for women friends”. He has always sworn he is not interested in any one else but me.

 

Well – it happened again last week. Again, I don’t want to bore you with the details but my gut is screaming at me that he is talking to someone else on thephone. I will not tell him what I’m thinking. I refuse to have that conversation with him because it is pointless. The last time this happened (maybe a year or so ago) I had promised myself if I felt this way I would end the relationship. I have been distant with him the past 2 weeks – making up excuses as to why I can’t see him as often. He knows that something is off –but he will never address it – he will wait for me.

 

I want out of this relationship but I need to make it stick and I don’t know that I have the courage. One thing I say is that I feel more determined this time than ever. Previously, I would tell him I couldn’t do this anymore but deep in my gut I knew it wasn’t really what I wanted. This time is different. I am better than this – lying and sneaking around – with someone I don’t even trust! For what? And I am no better, I’m not trustworthy either. I don’t want to live like this anymore yet I am so emotionally invested in him.

 

 

What also makes this time different is that previously – I couldn’t stand the thoughts of him not in my life – this time – its about ME –why am I staying in a relationship where I’m not happy – why am I settling –its almost as though this parallels my own marriage. Why did I settle? Why don’t I stand up for ME and instead I accept “less than”. I USED to do that in my marriage, but things have changed in the past 5 years with my husband –things are actually better – I’m actually more authentic with him. Yet – I continue in this pointless affair/relationship which I know is also “taking”from my marriage.

 

It’s weird because on one hand I don’t feel as though I “need” him so badly anymore (probably because of the changes in the my life inthe past few years) yet….

 

I am asking for help – how do I do this? What do I tell him– I don’t want to go into a lot of “talk” about anything – just that I want this over.

 

I’m rambling now and I’ll stop! Thank you if you got this far

Edited April 8, 2015 by Hyacinth56

[Cinnimon]

You didn't say if you are in love with him or not? To me that always makes such a huge difference. 12 years is a very long time, the attachment has got to very strong. I think you can get out fairly easy as far as ending it but I do think you will most definitly miss his presense in your daily life. That could be the hardest part for you if you are already feeling over it emotionally.

[Blu72]

Wow 12 years? I'm not sure where to start. You two definitely spend a lot of time together, how on earth does this man have time for someone else besides the double life he is already living?

 

If you truly are ready to make this ending stick, NC is the only way. Because you are engrained so heavily in each other's day to day life, you are going to really have to dig deep to stay NC with him. I suggest getting into IC with someone who can talk you thru this and help provide strategies to finally end this and mean it.

[Chasing_mya]

I understand where you're coming from. Its like a never ending vicious cycle that goes nowhere. Can you meet him one last time for coffee and put all your cards on the table, tell him how YOU feel, make it about YOU and walk away with no contact ever again? Block his #, email, or whatever other lines of communication you both may have and never look back? Change your routine so not to run into him. You have to implement different and new ways of doing things if you want this to stick. It's going to be difficult but you seem determined and I wish you the best. This man has been a part of your life for 12 years, longer than some marriages. Be certain this is what you truly want before making your decision. I'd hate for you to start something and end up going back. Its not a good feeling but you deserve peace and to live in your truth. Living a double life takes a toll mind, body and soul and you lose yourself. Find your freedom, get your power back and do this for you. You deserve the peace of mind.

 

Just out of curiosity how do you know he's chatting with someone else?

[Southern Sun]

Oh my word...I have to say, I don't envy your position.

 

I echo Blu's suggestion - really seek out a GOOD therapist who can guide you through this. You will need some help.

 

If you've been reading this board, you've seen how hard it is for those in affairs for a just few months or a couple of years to get themselves out. Then again, I believe that once you're truly ready, you can do it, no matter how long you have been in it. You just have to be willing.

 

Recognize that he likely won't let you go without a fight. You will be messing up his little solution. Right now, he gets to stay married and have his woman on the side (or women, as you say). He has been able to count on you for a long time. You were married too, so you didn't rock the boat. You were easy for him, mostly. Either he'll be ready to move on too and will go quietly, or he will make this very difficult. You may see a little of both from him. Prepare yourself.

 

You must start thinking through what you need to do in order to make this happen. Will you confess? This is quite a secret to keep inside. I'm afraid if it were me, the only way I could totally extricate myself and then be able to move forward, would be to lay it all on the table, knowing I was risking everything. But you've already risked everything by having the affair, so it's really no different. It's very scary. Only you can know the right thing to do.

 

Be strong and seek guidance. When you decide you want that wholehearted, transparent life of integrity, you will make it happen. We can support you here.

 

Southern

[Hyacinth56]

Thanks so much for the replies. I am sick about all this. I agree I need counseling and I already have a call in to someone today.

 

As for why I think he is lying I would have to provide a lot of history. You know how the hair sticks up on your neck and you just know in your gut? That's how I know. I'm at a point where it doesn't even matter anymore. I am just so tired of it all regardless of all the good times it's just not worth this.

[Hope Shimmers]

What also makes this time different is that previously – I couldn’t stand the thoughts of him not in my life – this time – its about ME –why am I staying in a relationship where I’m not happy – why am I settling –its almost as though this parallels my own marriage.

 

Wow. 12 years is a long time.

 

My situation is different than yours but mine was also long-term (8+ years, although with a lot of situational changes thrown in).

 

Your quote above is the place I needed to get before I could extricate myself. It's good that you are there.

 

Let me ask you what might be a hard question - if he were not talking to someone else, would you still want out of the affair and be posting here?

 

The only way out is going to be very painful, and that's to end it. You already know that. You do have the strength to do it, but it will be hard. BUT it will never get easier, only harder, and how much more time and how much more of yourself do you want to lose with things the way they are?

[Grapesofwrath]

If your gut tells you something is going on, then you are probably right. Not listening to our guts is oftentimes what gets us into these situations in the first place. I think the BS often gets those same gut feelings, and they override them intellectually for fear of facing the truth.

 

As you point out, you are at a point where the details of it are not important, you just want out. Fortunately, you can end it without the trauma of divorce, public humiliation, etc.

 

I was recently talking with my cousin, and she shared with me that she was in an A for 10 years. One thing she said really stuck with me: "You think you are in control of these things. That you are going to manage the situation. But one day you realize you're not controlling it. It's controlling you. Get out before that happens."

[IfWishesWereHorses]

12 years and I can't imagine that you both aren't in he same place emotionally. Probably a lot like a marriage. The solution is easy. Tell him you're through and if he contacts you again you'll tell your husband and his wife.

[Hyacinth56]

Yes I do believe we're both in the same place emotionally. That's the strange thing about these relationships. Over the years things have become so much more clear to me. This won't make sense unless you lived it but I totally understand his actions now. They have nothing to do with how he feels about me. I have no doubt that he cares for me but for some men like him, and in my opinion, men that you've met online, like the newness of someone else. Someone new to talk to, all that excitement again. Is he only talking..who knows. Given all the time we spend together it seems unlikely but I always say that people will find the time to do whatever they want.

 

This affair has also made me see that I have rationalized my own motivations. Twelve years ago my marriage wasn't great but certainly not so awful to do what I've done. It really was/is about my choices and the way I choose to cope. If I had to do it over again, in spite of all the good things I've enjoyed about the affair I would run so fast!

 

The bottom line is, he could be telling the truth but I don't believe him and that's all that really matters.

 

He is very charming and I admit that in the past I have wanted to believe him or convince myself it's nothing. But now I just feel numb inside and I think I finally love me more than I love the attention from him. Will I miss him.. Yes. He has been good to me but it's not worth it anymore.

 

To the poster who asked if I love him. That makes me chuckle a little. I don't even know what love is anymore. And I don't see what difference it makes anyway. I am too cynical anymore to believe in love.

[Healthier Me]

Hyacinth, I really feel for you.

My A was much shorter- three years, but it was still enough time for me to grow attached to him. I used to think it was love, but being on the outside of it now, I KNOW it wasn't! See that's the thing, it's Kind of like being inside of a painting. Maybe this is a poor analogy, but you have to be able to step back to see the WHOLE picture! The only way to see the truth is to be out of the A madness looking at the whole picture, and not just snippets of what you want to see. (Which are only the good parts)

 

I thought my AP was this perfect and kind man, and he was .....while in the a bubble. It's only after getting out that I was able to see the REAL him, and he was NOT the prince I made him out to be! We also met online and he later became my boss. I also always had the feeling he was talking with other women. Of course he was! These men who go online to meet women get off on the hunt! Even though he "kept" me for those three years, Lord only knows how many other women he was wooing. I often read stories on here and wonder if there's a chance they could unknowingly be referring to "my" AP. It's very possible!

 

Those three wasted years went by quickly, but now that I'm out and in the healing season; that time I spent with him that felt SO meaningful , now feels so empty- because it wasn't REAL. My reality is here with my h and children. And even though it's not everything I WANT, it's what I HAVE!

 

Life is soooooooooo short. Please don't waste any more years on something that isn't even real! You will miss what you thought it was, but you won't be missing out on what it really IS!

 

....Wishing much strength for you.....

[CarrieT]

OP, had there *ever* been any thought of confessing everything to your husband?

 

You want the affair to end? Come clean to your husband - and your MM's wife - and EXPOSE...

 

That will force a culmination and start to heal the wounds caused by the years of guilt you have been experiencing.

[the_artist_1970]

OP, had there *ever* been any thought of confessing everything to your husband?

 

You want the affair to end? Come clean to your husband - and your MM's wife - and EXPOSE...

 

That will force a culmination and start to heal the wounds caused by the years of guilt you have been experiencing.

 

This is great advice but someone who has lied and deceived for 12 years has a special way of manipulative behavior that is usually ingrained in them. The only way BH will find out is if he catches her and still he will never know that it's been going on for 12 years. Someone with this type of personality is incapable of living an altruistic, authentic life and the poor BH will be left in the dark forever.

 

And of course a MM who met a MW online looking for "fun" is trying to pull as many willing participants into his web for the next person willing to throw away their dignity. It's surprising that OP would even think that he wouldn't be looking for more. Just because OP continued for 12 years, the average woman would NEVER let a man keep them hidden and secret from his real life for 12 years without expecting anything but a lunch and a hotel romp once in a while. NO man is worth that. You really have to be in a bad place within yourself to think that's all you deserve even if he has gold dripping from his .....

[jbrent890]

I'm not going to beat the OP up, but I am going to be real. Once this does end (I have faith you will end it), I don't see how she will be able to just go back to the marriage. At this point, this isn't an affair anymore, this is a relationship. Once this is over the depression will be at a all time high. I don't see how her husband would not notice that something was up.

[Hyacinth56]

Artist..you haven't posted anything I haven't thought about too. I appreciate your frankness.

[DKT3]

I agree, the marriage is over. I like to use the tripod analogy, OP your life has become a true tripod, once the MM is gone your marriage will likely fail. You have grown use to having someone fill the gaps, husband is great at A, C, E, F, and G while MM is great at B,D, and H in a sense you have it all. Take one away and you feel like you have nothing. This can (most likely will) cause you to resent your husband and in turn sabotage your marriage. You will want to run away from your marriage because your focus won't be on what you have, instead you will focus on what your missing. I've been banging my head against the wall trying to explain this to so many of the WW's here on this site.

 

These things are so much easier to end and move past if there isn't so much focus on MM, why it ended, does he miss her, did he love her, and very little focus on the guy that is there when she is sick to hold her hair when she is throwing up, the guy who committed to her and isn't out messing around. This is what most often ends marriags, not the affair but the crappy way the husband is treated because he is there but not really wanted.

[Poppy's sister]

Oh my goodness... 12 years sounds shocking but then I am heading towards 4 and i can so see how this happens. Time slips by and an affair becomes a steady relationship of its own. Mine is definitely slipping into its own routine and like the op I am starting to feel less as if I want this anymore. The last 6 months have involved much discussion about the long term etc, how this affair is not what we want but I can see the my MM will stay at home until kids grown up...And I will be like hyacinth... 12 years older.

Hyacinth you never say whether you have wanted more from the affair? Did you imagine being together properly at some point? If you didn't maybe you have just outgrown the need for this relationship? If you did maybe the years of disappointment have worn down your desire for him....familiarity breeds contempt and all that.

After 12 years it is going to be like a bereavement.. You will grieve but maybe it is time.

I can see me edging towards the same point...I don't want to spend 12 years wanting something I will never have...I'd rather just not have it now And know

Have you considered what you will do if he says this is it and hr wants you both to leave marriages?

Thankyou for a very thought provoking post

Best of luck

Poppy's sister

[Hyacinth56]

Poppy..no, neither of us ever talked about leaving. It has never been something I wanted. I see now that an affair is a coping vehicle, at least for me. It is external validation and a host of other issues. It's a great way to ignore your own truth and it's simply a bandaid.. I could go on but I wouldn't indulge this type of reasoning years ago either. We have to figure it out on our own, sadly.

 

I don't have to worry that he wants me to leave for him. Once we had a conversation and I told him the first time I came home late he would wonder and we could never trust each other.

 

Yes..time does slip away. Don't me in 8 years typing this advice to someone else.

[Hope Shimmers]

These things are so much easier to end and move past if there isn't so much focus on MM, why it ended, does he miss her, did he love her, and very little focus on the guy that is there when she is sick to hold her hair when she is throwing up, the guy who committed to her and isn't out messing around. This is what most often ends marriags, not the affair but the crappy way the husband is treated because he is there but not really wanted.

 

I totally agree that the focus should be on the BS (I think anyone would agree with that). And I agree it would be easier if there wasn't so much focus on the MM - is he missing me, what is he thinking, etc.

 

The problem is, though, it's not as simple as it sounds. I know people who haven't been through it say, "Just forget him! Move on! Focus on your BS!" but the thing they don't understand is that it's a process. A very difficult one. The affair is like breaking an addiction. It really is.

 

I won't use the drinking analogy again because I don't like insinuating that one is the same as the other, but I can tell you the addition is STRONG. I didn't have a BS, but I know the process I went through and I just had to move through it before I could focus on anyone or anything else. Selfish? Yeah. But when we are hurting after a loss, we tend to be selfish.

 

I think the goal of most of these women who are struggling is to get through this as soon as possible and be able to refocus on the marriage. Impossible to authentically do both at the same time IMO.

[DKT3]

I totally agree that the focus should be on the BS (I think anyone would agree with that). And I agree it would be easier if there wasn't so much focus on the MM - is he missing me, what is he thinking, etc.

 

The problem is, though, it's not as simple as it sounds. I know people who haven't been through it say, "Just forget him! Move on! Focus on your BS!" but the thing they don't understand is that it's a process. A very difficult one. The affair is like breaking an addiction. It really is.

 

I won't use the drinking analogy again because I don't like insinuating that one is the same as the other, but I can tell you the addition is STRONG. I didn't have a BS, but I know the process I went through and I just had to move through it before I could focus on anyone or anything else. Selfish? Yeah. But when we are hurting after a loss, we tend to be selfish.

 

I think the goal of most of these women who are struggling is to get through this as soon as possible and be able to refocus on the marriage. Impossible to authentically do both at the same time IMO.

 

Personal relationships are never easy. Connections are hard to pull away from, yet when its unhealthy it has to be done.

 

Hope, I really don't see it that way. If I'm being honest I don't believe that many of these women want the affairs over and that is the struggle. Too scared to end it and too scared to free the husband. Fear of being alone.

 

Its really as simple as you want it to be. I stand by my statement 100% if they really want it over then it would be over.

[Cali408]

12 years is a long time. I quit at 7. What is awful about being in affairs are

 

It's an addiction, you only see the good side, not the day to day stuff. They make you high as a kite and feel validated.

 

With most men, they don't want to replace their spouse, as Old Shirt said, it's to add to the trophy case of what they have. What is so scary is that most men have it good at home. Maybe they're bored with their wife being a missionary starfish once a month, she nags at him, doesn't look as good as she used to, doesn't stroke his ego, but she cooks and cleans for him, is a good mother and nurturer

 

The OW only hears the things he complains about. Not the great trips to Hawaii, the nice conversation they had over a drink, fun family moments with the kids etc. Most men won't blow up a marriage, while a wife is more likely to walk away from a marriage in an affair.

 

Men are worse than women in an affair. They are the predators most of the time, and have an easier time walking away while the OW is emotionally shattered.

 

Affairs are a waste of life. Instead of appreciating what you have, you live in this cloud of what could be. You don't give your spouse 100%, you don't give your AP 100%. You're not enjoying the simple moments in life, you're counting down the seconds to the next text, email, call, rendezvous. You're not present at all. Chasing the high. Life is passing you by.

 

My biggest regret is my kids growing up, I can't remember them at certain ages, but I can certainly remember the sex, the arguments, the great times of the affair right down to date and time.

 

Throw in the stress of hiding things, wondering what your AP is doing with their spouse, and it can take quite the toll on your health and age you.

 

The good news for you is there has not been a dday. You've just started to realize, it's not for you. This makes it much easier to move on. But you have to be at the point where you say, 12 years is enough, I'm done.

 

I'm not a believer in telling anyone, just go forward playing it straight. I'm not a big believer in therapy. After my first session, I realized I had to get my head out of my rear.

[Hope Shimmers]

Personal relationships are never easy. Connections are hard to pull away from, yet when its unhealthy it has to be done.

 

Agreed.

 

It took me 15+ years to get out of an abusive marriage. You know me very well by now. Do you consider me to be a weak person?

 

Hope, I really don't see it that way. If I'm being honest I don't believe that many of these women want the affairs over and that is the struggle. Too scared to end it and too scared to free the husband. Fear of being alone.

 

Absolutely.

 

I think we are just coming at this from different sides of the coin.

 

I have ended many long-term relationships in my life, but ending this one was off the charts in terms of what I went through compared to those. I can't even put it into words. IMO, it's because these relationships tend to eat away at self-esteem until you have more or less lost yourself along the way. You don't end these relationships as a healthy person, and I think that recovery process is what makes these so much harder.

 

Its really as simple as you want it to be. I stand by my statement 100% if they really want it over then it would be over.

 

It was simple, but it didn't happen overnight and it was oh, so painful.

 

I try to take the OP and others here in similar situations at face value and understand where they are at in the process because I remember being there. I just believe recovering from this doesn't happen instantly, however much the person *knows* it needs to happen.

[the_artist_1970]

Personal relationships are never easy. Connections are hard to pull away from, yet when its unhealthy it has to be done.

 

Hope, I really don't see it that way. If I'm being honest I don't believe that many of these women want the affairs over and that is the struggle. Too scared to end it and too scared to free the husband. Fear of being alone.

 

Its really as simple as you want it to be. I stand by my statement 100% if they really want it over then it would be over.

 

DKT3, I love your posts but I think that it really isn't that simple for a lot of ppl. For me, it makes me want to vomit for a MM to hit on me. I think how dare this man hit on me when he knows I'm M and how dare he thinks he can put me in the role of his side piece. For me, I could never be intimate and love a man when I have never seen his real life, haven't met his mom, sisters, family, etc. For me, I can't betray another woman by sleeping with her husband. That's me. But there are ppl who crave the attention of men and there are ppl who can fall head over hills for a man/woman without ever really seeing a great part of their life (i.e. their children, spouse, mother, etc). They love the fantasy and they live in that world because real life is too crazy or too much for them. While the spouse sees every aspect of the H/W the AP only sees this "perfect" being who really only exists in their "perfect" little world.

 

I believe that is why it is so hard for them to get over an A, because actually it was always so "perfect" because it was only a small portion of the M person that he/she was giving them. Only the good stuff.

 

I can sort of relate because for almost two decades before my DH had an A, he was perfect in my sight. I actually held him on a pedestal that no one should be on. He never deserved that because he is human with flaws. On D-Day, I hated him so much but I also came out of la-la land and realized that he is not a greek god, rather a man who was broken at the time of his A.

[Hope Shimmers]

I believe that is why it is so hard for them to get over an A, because actually it was always so "perfect" because it was only a small portion of the M person that he/she was giving them. Only the good stuff.

 

That is SOOOOO totally the opposite of my situation.

[Josmatjes]

Personal relationships are never easy. Connections are hard to pull away from, yet when its unhealthy it has to be done.

 

Hope, I really don't see it that way. If I'm being honest I don't believe that many of these women want the affairs over and that is the struggle. Too scared to end it and too scared to free the husband. Fear of being alone.

 

Its really as simple as you want it to be. I stand by my statement 100% if they really want it over then it would be over.

 

Dk..... I think you are wrong here. I wanted mine over even when I was in it and it truly was an addiction. It's like your watching yourself from the outside looking in. It's awful. Don't categorize that all these women are the same. That's like me saying all men are the same., come on really!! Plus, your a guy, you do not know everything about what a women goes through just because you and your wife went through it. I mean no disrespect, I'm just saying that all situations are different...