I want to save my marriage

[zach976]

My wife and I have been married for 11 years this May. We have two beautiful girls, 2 and 5 years old. We went through a lot trying to get pregnant, infertility, miscarriages, you name it. Before she got pregnant with our first child, I caught her texting and calling one of my brother in laws friends that we both had hung out with. The texting talked about how they couldn't wait to be together, etc. We decided to go to marriage counseling and she confessed that they were having an emotional connection but it had never been physical. She cut it off with the guy and we started a family finally. Just recently she has been wanting to go out with friends a lot and start to disconnect from me. We've had our issues of me wanting to have sex often and her being happy with sex only once a month. She told me that she wanted to find herself and that she feels like a child who has never been on her own. I do the majority of the cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, paying bills,etc. She has told me she feels like she's not needed at home and that she has a strong urge to be on her own. She has even mentioned a separation. I convinced her to start going to a counselor. The other day she told me her task for the week was to discuss her counseling sessions with. Now the tough part. She told me that she has some skeletons that have been eating at her for a long time and she needed to come clean. She told me that the emotional affair she had before the we got pregnant had also been physical. She swears up and down that they never had sex. She said that she was in love him and that he loved her. She also said around the same time that she was drunk at a bar and had made out with a random girl. I know that she was in a dark place when all this happened but it doesn't excuse her behavior. I'm obviously hurt but I still love her very much and want this marriage to work. She says she loves me too but still has a great urge to live her own life. After all this, I have realized that I have not been perfect either. I haven't always been there when she needed me, I've treated her like a child trying to have control over our bank account and being jealous when she goes out with her friends. I've made it clear to her that I don't want to live like that anymore, that I want to change and want to make this marriage work. She is really confused and doesn't know what to do. I want this to work and don't know what else to do.

[KBarletta]

Hi Zach - You say you went to marriage counseling after the emotional affair, but have you been back since then? Have you addressed your wife's need for independence, your jealousy and need to be in control, etc., in that environment? It sounds like you need to.

 

You have made your intentions clear to your wife that you want to save the marriage - that's good. You have two children and you seem to be in love, and nothing here - at least to me - seems insurmountable. But you definitely have issues. The good news is that you seem to know what they are and be committed to addressing them. I would try to get your wife on board with that as well. Her issues sound similar to the ones my wife had in our marriage. The only trouble is, I wasn't aware of how serious those issues were until it was too late and she had no interest in addressing them. I would talk frankly to your wife about how much you want your marriage to work and how committed you are to changing to make sure that happens. Get her to marriage counseling. That's job one, as I see it.

[zach976]

Hi Zach - You say you went to marriage counseling after the emotional affair, but have you been back since then? Have you addressed your wife's need for independence, your jealousy and need to be in control, etc., in that environment? It sounds like you need to.

 

You have made your intentions clear to your wife that you want to save the marriage - that's good. You have two children and you seem to be in love, and nothing here - at least to me - seems insurmountable. But you definitely have issues. The good news is that you seem to know what they are and be committed to addressing them. I would try to get your wife on board with that as well. Her issues sound similar to the ones my wife had in our marriage. The only trouble is, I wasn't aware of how serious those issues were until it was too late and she had no interest in addressing them. I would talk frankly to your wife about how much you want your marriage to work and how committed you are to changing to make sure that happens. Get her to marriage counseling. That's job one, as I see it.

 

Thank you for the reply. I've tried to convince her that we need to see a counselor together and she agreed. When she returned home from her couseling session that night she said her counselor told her that we both had to be 100 percent in if we wanted to go to counseling together or it would not work. She said she didn't know if she wanted it to work or not. She just keeps telling me she had to decide on what she wants to do. She had this vision of her being on her own and us being separated and co-parenting this joyous family. I know it will negatively affect out daughters if we separate. I don't want to smother her but not knowing what she wants, is killing me.

[Mr. Lucky]

I know that she was in a dark place when all this happened but it doesn't excuse her behavior. I'm obviously hurt but I still love her very much and want this marriage to work. She says she loves me too but still has a great urge to live her own life. After all this, I have realized that I have not been perfect either. I haven't always been there when she needed me, I've treated her like a child trying to have control over our bank account and being jealous when she goes out with her friends. I've made it clear to her that I don't want to live like that anymore, that I want to change and want to make this marriage work. She is really confused and doesn't know what to do. I want this to work and don't know what else to do.

 

KB's advice to get back in MC is spot on - and probably your only chance. I'd guess your wife is making "jump ship" plans as we speak.

 

I know it's early on, but be careful of making excuses for you're WS's actions. It's her job to communicate her needs to you you and express when they're not being met. You were in the same marriage and I'm going to guess you didn't cheat.

 

Also, what actions have you taken to require transparency in her phone, email and social media? Given she's strayed before, there should be no secrecy in her communication.

 

And lastly, the bad news. There are signs - some will say proof - that she's involved with someone now. You should be vigilant including checking phone records, bank accounts, computers, etc. Knowledge is power, you need to know what you're up against.

 

Much knowledge amongst the members here, hope you keep posting...

 

Mr. Lucky

[badpenny]

You just have to come to terms with one thing (and this is going to hurt):

 

What you want is not what she wants.

You're committed, she definitely isn't.

I recognise this, I've seen this before.

 

She's trying to find a way within herself to be gentle with you, to not be cruel, to not shock you.

 

But please trust me when I tell you this:

She actually wants out.

 

Her indecision is not based on whether she wants to stay married to you.

She doesn't.

 

Her indecision is based on the unknown. On what will actually happen as and when the scatology hits the rotating ventilator.

 

She wants to leave you, I'm afraid I'm in no doubt of that.

What scares her, is what will happen when she does.

 

What of the house? What about the children?

How will she survive?

What will happen about this other guy?

What's his take on this?

Will he be around, or will he fade out?

If she leaves you is there any guarantee he will be a constant?

 

These questions are the basis of her confusion.

This is why she's prevaricating.

The marriage is over.

But the future for her is uncertain.

 

And that's why she doesn't know what she wants.

[Satu]

The only person you can directly address here is yourself. Like everybody else who's been in your position, you are focussed on making her want to stay, and changing your behaviour for her benefit. That's not wrong, but your main focus should be on yourself and the children.

[KBarletta]

Thank you for the reply. I've tried to convince her that we need to see a counselor together and she agreed. When she returned home from her couseling session that night she said her counselor told her that we both had to be 100 percent in if we wanted to go to counseling together or it would not work. She said she didn't know if she wanted it to work or not. She just keeps telling me she had to decide on what she wants to do. She had this vision of her being on her own and us being separated and co-parenting this joyous family. I know it will negatively affect out daughters if we separate. I don't want to smother her but not knowing what she wants, is killing me.

 

The counselor is correct - you both need to be 100 percent on board. If either of you has one foot in and one foot out of the marriage, it will not work.

 

That said, I would not press your wife for an answer as that could have the opposite of the desired outcome. I would make it very clear to her where you are, what you are willing to do, how much you care about the relationship and how committed you are to doing what it takes. Then let her make up her own mind. I hope she chooses to stick it out.

 

She seems to value her independence and crave being "on her own." That is not necessarily something that requires a "single life." Plenty of marriages are able to satisfy a partner's need for space/independence and still provide a place for both to meet in the middle and still share a happy life. That is a compromise that can be worked out through marriage counseling, open communication and mutual respect. I hope you and your wife can work it out!

[zach976]

KB's advice to get back in MC is spot on - and probably your only chance. I'd guess your wife is making "jump ship" plans as we speak.

 

I know it's early on, but be careful of making excuses for you're WS's actions. It's her job to communicate her needs to you you and express when they're not being met. You were in the same marriage and I'm going to guess you didn't cheat.

 

Also, what actions have you taken to require transparency in her phone, email and social media? Given she's strayed before, there should be no secrecy in her communication.

 

And lastly, the bad news. There are signs - some will say proof - that she's involved with someone now. You should be vigilant including checking phone records, bank accounts, computers, etc. Knowledge is power, you need to know what you're up against.

 

Much knowledge amongst the members here, hope you keep posting...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I didn't cheat on her. She told me that she didn't want to confess that the affair was physical because she was afraid to lose me at the time. She knew it would have destroyed me. To me, that would have been better timing than now. I honestly don't think anything has happened since that incident but who knows. I told her now was the time to air everything out and she says that what she's told me is everything. Ive checked our account, phone records, etc and have no signs

That she has been unfaithful. She is very standoffish when I have tried to get info about the affair. She says she's embarrassed about it and has tried to forget about it. She's told me it was emotional and physical but no sex. She said she couldn't do it. Do I need to know info or should I just leave it alone and work on the now?

[KBarletta]

I didn't cheat on her. She told me that she didn't want to confess that the affair was physical because she was afraid to lose me at the time. She knew it would have destroyed me. To me, that would have been better timing than now. I honestly don't think anything has happened since that incident but who knows. I told her now was the time to air everything out and she says that what she's told me is everything. Ive checked our account, phone records, etc and have no signs

That she has been unfaithful. She is very standoffish when I have tried to get info about the affair. She says she's embarrassed about it and has tried to forget about it. She's told me it was emotional and physical but no sex. She said she couldn't do it. Do I need to know info or should I just leave it alone and work on the now?

 

My advice would be to focus on the present and the future and try to leave the past in the past. The only thing the past is good for is to glean from it what you can learn and use it to grow and become better. Don't dwell on it.

 

That said, Mr. Lucky is right that you should not let her off the hook and assume there's nothing going on. I would try not to be over bearing and jealous, of course, but I would expect transparency, be careful and keep your eyes open for signs.

[chew123]

Zach976,

 

I am sorry you are in this situation, especially with children so young. I have to say that I agree with Mr. Lucky even though I hope he is wrong. It sounds a bit like she is already with someone else and wants the separation so she can more easily pursue the affair, then after time passes she can say say she wants a divorce because she is happier separated from you then together. I suggest you keep a close eye on things.

 

I wonder if she told you about the skeletons hoping that they would be deal breakers for you and that you would decide to file for divorce so she did not have to. So then she could say it was your decision to get divorced. The WW are a sneaky breed in general and tend to attempt to manipulate the BS to make the hard decisions for them.

 

None of this really matters though. All you can do is work on yourself and be a good father. She is going to do what she wants anyway. And hopefully I am wrong about everything I said above, and I truly hope that I am.

 

Good luck and you will get through this either way. There are quite a few of us on this board who have been or are in similar situations and are surviving if not thriving.

[zach976]

My advice would be to focus on the present and the future and try to leave the past in the past. The only thing the past is good for is to glean from it what you can learn and use it to grow and become better. Don't dwell on it.

 

That said, Mr. Lucky is right that you should not let her off the hook and assume there's nothing going on. I would try not to be over bearing and jealous, of course, but I would expect transparency, be careful and keep your eyes open for signs.

 

Thank you for the advice. This is tough and I need all I can get.

[zach976]

Zach976,

 

I am sorry you are in this situation, especially with children so young. I have to say that I agree with Mr. Lucky even though I hope he is wrong. It sounds a bit like she is already with someone else and wants the separation so she can more easily pursue the affair, then after time passes she can say say she wants a divorce because she is happier separated from you then together. I suggest you keep a close eye on things.

 

I wonder if she told you about the skeletons hoping that they would be deal breakers for you and that you would decide to file for divorce so she did not have to. So then she could say it was your decision to get divorced. The WW are a sneaky breed in general and tend to attempt to manipulate the BS to make the hard decisions for them.

 

None of this really matters though. All you can do is work on yourself and be a good father. She is going to do what she wants anyway. And hopefully I am wrong about everything I said above, and I truly hope that I am.

 

Good luck and you will get through this either way. There are quite a few of us on this board who have been or are in similar situations and are surviving if not thriving.

 

I wondered some of this myself. I told her that I felt like she was baiting me to leave her because she couldn't pull the trigger. She said that was not the case and that she doesn't want to end our marriage but she feels liberated when shes by herself. She said she wants to find out who she is and make her own decisions. I've told her that I'm willing to give her space to explore that and that this could be a great chance for us to start a new life if she can commit to our marriage and counseling.

[zach976]

This is all great information and it is greatly appreciated.

[No Limit]

Yeah, they always have affairs that have never been physical, right. Get your kids DNA tested and see an attorney to help you with divorce. You can't turn a slut into a wife, no matter how much you want to.

[Yasuandio]

Let me get this straight. Your wife seems to have had the emotional and physical affair, that didn't include sex, and admits to being in love with this man (friend of your brother-in-law). Concurrently, here other skeleton consisted of a "make-out" lesbian session with a random female she met at a bar when she was drunk, (that probably didn't involve sex either).

 

Post "Come to Jesus" confessions, you feel your wife was in a dark place, and confused. Yet, your wife is announcing to you that ""she love you BUT she has a great urge to live her own life." Not just an urge, a GREAT URGE. I would urge you to get real about that. "Living her own life," probably doesn't mean being married to you (I'm very sorry to say that, but her words are saying that).

 

I would advise you to take this position: ALL IN or ALL OUT, period, take it or leave it. No "thinky-think" about it time granted either. You have a right to a straightforward response to her desire. That's it.

 

Stop blaming yourself. Sure, there are things you can improve upon, of course. HOWEVER, you did not fall in love with a friend of your sister-in-law, and have an emotional and physical relationship without sex, did you? Nor did you get drunk at a bar and select a random man to "make-out" with. You didn't do that, right?

 

So, you get jealous once in awhile, and you have been too controlling with money. I'm sorry, but that is nothing compared to the trickle-truth that is running from your wife's mouth.

 

Don't fall for this, and do not allow self-induced blame-shifting. That is my take, I hope it wasn't too harsh. I am trying to help you. Yas

[zach976]

A little update. I called the guy she had the affair with. Of course he would not answer the call. He finally responded by text. I told him that I knew everything and was just looking for some closure. After apologizing for our the problems he had caused, he admitted that they had had sex about 4 times. You think you would remember the amount but nevertheless it happened. Before he confessed to me, he contacted my wife somehow and told her I was trying to call him. My wife told him not to talk to me. I put the pressure on her and she eventually confessed that they had sex but wouldn't go into detail about how many times or anything else. I knew it. It really breaks my heart to know that my wife had sex with another man. I'm sure many of you know the feeling. An important detail that I failed to mention is that my wife has a work friend that's a lesbian. They have been friends for a few years. This girl was in a long term relationship that has ended a few months ago. Now that the relationship has ended they are spending an abnormal amount of time together and my wife says that they're are best friends and that they have so much in common. I've not felt comfortable about this relationship and have asked her about it but she always gets mad and defensive. This girl comes to my house while I'm at work, goes to eat with my wife and kids. My wife involves her in everything when I'm not home. The other problem is that this girl had a lot of money and is always buying things for her and paying for everything they do. Two days ago I was setting up my text messaging on a new ipad I bought. We share an itunes account. When I was setting it up, it prompted me choose which phone number to use. Of course I picked hers to see what would happen. Very soon the texting between them was coming up on my ipad. They were sending a bunch of emoji symbols which I had to look up even though some where pretty obvious. My wife sent this to her????. The girl sent back yay! And then ?❤️???. My wife responded with ? or naw? They would text,"I love you baby" and other things that seemed really odd. I know this is all crazy but it looks like something is going on with them. Everytime I sent a text to my wife, she would immediately take a picture of it and send it to her. The girl is manipulating her very badly and trying to get her to leave me. She was telling my wife that I was a f ing indiot and that I doubted my love for her. She told her to pull the trigger on our relationship and let me find my perfect family. As I type this, I realize that I should probably quit trying to make this work and just move on with my life. It's hard because I know that she's being manipulated and she doesn't realize it. I know that if she chooses to leave, she will regret it. I text her at work and pressured her to tell me what was going on and she denies and says that have a really close relationship. I can't trust her, she's lied to me and I continue to catch her lying to me. I want to confront her with the text but I feel like if I don't reveal the text, I may be able to use it if we get a divorce. Is that true? Should I confront her?

[Friskyone4u]

Zach

As others have told you , you cannot save your marriage by yourself and she is obviously not "all in". She has lied continuously to you and is now hanging around with someone who is going to get her into an environment where there will be more lies . Does not matter if it owns man or woman

The fact is your wife does not want to be married right now and if you stay in denial you will get hurt more . She has betrayed you and shows no signs of wanting to do anything to accept responsibility . She is expecting you to just accept her behavior because you have allowed her to have all of the power .the worst thing you need to be saying to her now is how much you love her and how much you want to save your marriage . She does not care.

You need to decide if you want to live and accept an open marriage because that is what she has in store for you unless she believes that the fun is over and there are real consequences about to happen.

You need to see an attorney and find out you or rights . You need to insure she is not in contact with this OM or any others . She is offering you nothing but to suck it up.

You have a big decision to make, either live in infidelity or get out of it. Saving your marriage may not be possible if you choose option A.

[zach976]

Zach

As others have told you , you cannot save your marriage by yourself and she is obviously not "all in". She has lied continuously to you and is now hanging around with someone who is going to get her into an environment where there will be more lies . Does not matter if it owns man or woman

The fact is your wife does not want to be married right now and if you stay in denial you will get hurt more . She has betrayed you and shows no signs of wanting to do anything to accept responsibility . She is expecting you to just accept her behavior because you have allowed her to have all of the power .the worst thing you need to be saying to her now is how much you love her and how much you want to save your marriage . She does not care.

You need to decide if you want to live and accept an open marriage because that is what she has in store for you unless she believes that the fun is over and there are real consequences about to happen.

You need to see an attorney and find out you or rights . You need to insure she is not in contact with this OM or any others . She is offering you nothing but to suck it up.

You have a big decision to make, either live in infidelity or get out of it. Saving your marriage may not be possible if you choose option A.

 

Thank you. It's really hard to walk away. I'm really worried about my girls. I love them so much and I know they are going to be affected by this. It breaks my heart. This morning I told her if she's not hiding anything from me, then let me see her phone. She told me she's not going to live like that and she would never let me see it. She then told me that she was done and it's over. Now she wants to start talking about selling our house,etc.

[Friskyone4u]

Zach

There is your answer. She cheated on you and is guarding her privacy . That means one thing. She is still involved with someone.

You need to see an attorney. She does not need space . She needs divorce papers. She wanted to separate without you finding out anything so she could continue cheating without you being in the way . My guess is it is still the guy you talked to and she gave him a story to tell you.

Protect yourself and do not put up with it any more ?

[zach976]

Zach

There is your answer. She cheated on you and is guarding her privacy . That means one thing. She is still involved with someone.

You need to see an attorney. She does not need space . She needs divorce papers. She wanted to separate without you finding out anything so she could continue cheating without you being in the way . My guess is it is still the guy you talked to and she gave him a story to tell you.

Protect yourself and do not put up with it any more ?

 

I think the affair with the guy almost 6 years ago ended then. I'm sure it only ended because I caught her but who knows? She's told me that it's embarrassing and that she's tried to forget about it. I do think that there is more to the "friendship" that her and her lesbian friend share. I just hope we can be civil with each other if divorce is what we decide to do. Once again, I want to thank everyone for their comments. This is a very supportive forum and it's greatly appreciated.

[aliveagain]

It seems she's sleeping with everyone but you. You can't nice them back and you can't make them love you, tough love is required here or your in for a lifetime of cheating and pain. Expose them, if brother-in-law's friend is in a relationship let his spouse know the kind of guy he is. Did brother-in-law know about their relationship? If he did, cut him out of your life because he is no friend of yours or your marriage.

 

You now know why she wants to be on her own, she wants to test drive her new girlfriend while keeping you as her back up. Absolutely no to a separation, all that will do is cost you years of additional pain. If she wants out give it to her because right now your the only one in this marriage. First thing Monday morning go talk to a lawyer, protect your child, protect your finances. It's at least 2 against 1 and your on the outside in your own marriage. Expose her lesbian affair to those with influence over her. Do not have unprotected sex with her, get tested for all STD's. Your wife is clearly broken and in a way tricked you into marriage by withholding critical information from you that may have caused you to rethink marriage.

 

Nothing you did caused any of this. You can't control what she does because others have more influence over her then you it appears. You can tell her that as an adult she is free to see anyone she wants, just not as your wife. Explain that you are taking yourself out of infidelity and are moving on and that you would have preferred to move on as a family but your not waiting around for her decision. You will no longer consider any form of reconciliation as long as others are involved in your marriage. Start the process. Read up on the 180(google it) and make it your mantra. The 180 will help you detach. This girl will need a lot of independent counselling.

 

Sorry for your pain. I don't see much if any commitment to you or your marriage, she needs validation from men and women but not from you. Time to lawyer up, start by changing your banking, don't make it easy for her to cheat on you.

[bubbaganoosh]

Look. In order for a marriage to work, there has to be two who want to make it work, not one.

 

Basically she's making a fool out of you and your letting her do it The longer you let her do it the worse it will get.

 

My advice is find a lawyer and let her go. She isn't worth all the heartache she's causing you. She's lied, cheated with a man and now with a woman. This isn't a wife and until you wake up and realize that you can do better, your in for more that it's worth.

 

You can still be a great father to your kids. They need someone with balance in their lives and as I see it, your the only one who has it.

 

Stop playing games with her and stop playing nice guy. Look where it's got you.

[No Limit]

Wow, even her affair partner has more dignity and care for you than her. Divorce and run!

[Mr. Lucky]

Stop playing games with her and stop playing nice guy. Look where it's got you.

 

Bingo. Everything you've done to this point has been about trying fix what your wife has done. And that which you keep trying to repair, your wife is equally persistent in destroying. There's a message in her actions, time to listen to what she's telling you.

 

Does she act like someone that wants to be married to you ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Yasuandio]

An important detail that I failed to mention is that my wife has a work friend that's a lesbian.

 

What you already told us about was quite a mouthful. Such details are the sort of things you are psychologically coming to terms with, one at a time. In this post, it seem to me, like you may not be completely sure about what is happening between this female work friend and your wife.

 

Two days ago I was setting up my text messaging on a new ipad I bought. We share an itunes account. When I was setting it up, it prompted me choose which phone number to use. Of course I picked hers to see what would happen. Very soon the texting between them was coming up on my ipad.

 

As long as your name is on the account, you have access to this data legally. Continue monitoring it.

 

They were sending a bunch of emoji symbols which I had to look up even though some where pretty obvious. My wife sent this to her��������. The girl sent back yay! And then ��❤️������. My wife responded with �� or naw? They would text,"I love you baby" and other things that seemed really odd. I know this is all crazy but it looks like something is going on with them.

 

It doesn't "look like something is going on between them," because something IS going on between them. I can tell you with complete certainty, I would never send an emoticom of a tongue to one of my female friends, unless, I had some sort of sexual idea on my mind, and that is not the case. What you are seeing is not only spelled out for you in text, they drew you a dang picture!

 

Furthermore, you texts are being copies over to the female partner for analysis (that is a breach of your privacy). Why would that happen? There is no good reason for that.

 

With what has happened recently, that you told us about on page one, screw "her privacy." You have a need to know what the heck is going on, if only for health reasons.

 

Should I confront her?

 

HECK NO! Do not show your cards! Act normal. That is your proof, not only for your divorce and custody issues; BUT FOR YOUR OWN EYES, AND SANITY!

 

Us betrayed spouses often DO NOT want to believe the truth. It is a natural instinct to hold your family unit together at all costs, and the mind can sometimes go into denial.

 

Let the calls and texts continue, and get an attorney.

 

 

I would also recommend, if you any doubt about the meaning of these texts, quote them to a forum that might provide verification for you. Or see a therapist, and your family doctor, and get their opinion. What you need, in my opinion in good, clear reality checks. So there is not a doubt in your mind.

 

If you confront or discuss this matter with your wife, she will go underground, and you won't have access to the data your psyche so deeply needs to make this break, and not look back.

 

That is just my take. Yas