The never ending story....need support today

[KismetGirl]

Kismet, trust me... no one is judging you. it's not like the rest of us lead perfect lives and never make any mistakes. no one can judge you, we don't have that right. i'm certainly not going to judge anyone based on the fact that they're an OW. that being said - people on this thread are ANGRY for you, in your name.

 

it's just been too long, sweetheart. life is so short... TOO short. too short to spend it on a dude who isn't making any effort to improve his situation.

 

he has a small child at home, teriffied of leaving. do you really think he'll leave when the kid is THAT small? even if he tries to leave, his W will protest along with his family because the child is still a baby. so do you want to wait the next 15 years until this kid finally goes to HS? in the meantime, his W can go for another baby and be wouldn't say a thing because he wouldn't want her to be suspicious. he has issues, MANY issues.

 

he doesn't know how to handle the guilt, he doesn't realize that the divorce ISN'T the end of a family, it doesn't mean that folks are bad parents. i know many divorce situations where parents split their time 50:50 and they're reuly raising the kids TOGETHER. so it can be done but you have to understand that this won't go as smooth as in maybe other cases where there wasn't no A (or where it remained underground).

 

too many things can go wrong, you know? too many things for you to already plan some kind of future with this guy. let him go. tell him to contact you once he is settled down as a DIVORCED man and that is the only thing you should accept, only situation.

 

protect yourself. trust me when i say this - i know it's hard. we all know. we've all been probably at least once unhappily in love and it's hard when there is some kond of hope because... because, well... you want to be happy. we all want that, that's our purpose... no? we all want love so when someone finally offers it to you, you try to hold on.

 

please, look for comfort in other people... not him. he isn't good for you. you deserve someone who will choose you and be with you. and you deserve to be in an open, honest relationship. don't settle for anything less.

 

i don't think you're stupid or pathetic... but what you're doing right now? your choices? your choices are. there is a small prt of you that doesn't want to get over him. heartbreak is something we all experience and it's not something a human can't get over - however... it takes time + WORK. and you're not doing the real work because you refuse to really let him go.

 

don't waste anymore time being this dude's therapist.

 

You're right. He has many issues he has no desire to really face or work on anymore. He uses me (and probably other people when I'm not here) as a source of ego boost. God knows, maybe I really do mean nothing to him more than a distraction all these years.

 

I'm his therapist, his distraction, his playtoy. I let him get away with murder and at the end of the day he doesnt even have to put in any effort to come see me. I'm the one moving around my schedule, driving 120 miles back and forth to stay near him so I can get as much time as I can with him, because god knows he wont be late for his kid's baseball practice just to spend more time with me so I'm the one that has to be closer to him or else sacrifice time with him traveling to me. I'm the one that has done everything all this time and all he's done is keep me hanging on a thread, temporarily replacing me with other ego-boosters whenever I disappear for a while. I know in some ways he loves me and cares for me and wishes he could be with me, and I know that's why he keeps finding me again even when it's just as easy to play around with whoever is around him, but really at the end of the day how can I be pleased or flattered that I'm really just the top ranking in a list of side pieces?

 

Drifting between sad and angry this morning...

[KismetGirl]

So will you give up on kids,family for this guy?

 

no....never would.

[KismetGirl]

Hi Kismet Girl,

 

I can relate to how you feel in many ways even though my former A situation wasn't like yours, but some of the feelings and thoughts you've expressed I had felt as well and I'm sure others can relate.

 

Isn't it curious how in most of these affairs MM is "perfect but...." "perfect but unattainable", "perfect except for the cheating..." "perfect if only..." and we feel like this person was created by God for us and we are just perfect together BUT. I felt that feeling, and even to this day, even though I am not with my exAP and don't want to be, in many ways he was one of my better matches. He was a space of comfort for me. The years of A, just friends, open R, all add up to him being someone who in total knew me longer than most others I dated and all of that adds to the "Perfect but..." situation. I will say that, this whole "perfect but" is an illusion, the very fact of the but is all you need to know and what we should focus on as not really perfect or meant to be at all or else there wouldn't be all of this angst and "perfect but..." going on.

 

So many different addictive factors keep us stuck in As: the perfect but illusion, the time spent so you get more and more attached and less available for other opportunities, your own personal issues and crises which lead you to seek comfort in that familiar space, the wishful thinking of perfect but and fantasies of a future when the but is gone and it's just "perfect" and years go by.

 

I won't go into whether or not MM can or can't do whatever it is, I will simply say that, divorce while not easy by any stretch is not impossible or a "can't." It's a choice and he's made his choice, whether valid or not. For me, I don't really see the point of dissecting his choice. He made it, and your life is your own, and you also have to make your own choices. This is with any relationship, even with a single man, he may choose a job, his family, or other things as more important than maintaining the relationship and even if he is "perfect" if those other things come first the sensible thing would be to move forward with someone whose life goals and interests are more compatible with you and take you into consideration, no? So why do MM get a free pass to where their life plans and interests should always come first and they should STILL get to be with you on the side while pursing the more important choices they've made? They shouldn't. If they choose their families, good! Choose them and you should be free to choose something else. Also, MM isn't trapping you, I mean they may lead us on and spill sweet nothings and all the hopes and wishes of "what could be..." or "if only..." and "I wish i met you first..." and all the rest of wishes, but as they say, if wishes were horses beggars would ride! But at the end of the day, you also choose to stay. They choose to stay M and you choose to stay with them.

 

It won't be easy for MM to leave your head. It won't. That's part of what happens when you've dedicated 10 years to an A. Lots of things become idealized, fantasies of perfect but as well as the realities of how attachment works if you've invested emotionally for so long and also use MM as your emotional support...it's a habit....once you feel down you automatically will reach for MM to make you feel better and then so the cycle spins of you then being in his arms, it's so perfect if only...and you do that for a while then get frustrated and want it to end, rinse repeat. For me, that is the most cruel part of As, the fact that once you invest so much, it's not easy to just turn your back on it even though you should and even when you know better. The only thing I can say is that making an active choice for YOURSELF and then deciding to cut him out completely is one of the only ways....you can't do it a little bit. I think that's what many struggle with, thinking they can have a taste of MM here and there and it will be just fine when all it does is dig the hole deeper for you and makes it that harder to climb out. NC in my experience, while not easy and not an over night solution does help you to climb out of the hole and start seeing reality a bit more clearly and gives you more space to move on....but you've done NC...so it's still the fantasy of the what ifs and perfect but that pulls you back in even after years and also seeing him as a place of comfort. I'm not sure how, but finding a new source of comfort seems like one way to get rid of MM because it seems like when life is going well it's easier to leave him alone but when it isn't is when you let your guard down and run to him.

 

It's true. They do seem perfect, don't they, but then again an A is sort of a bit like a constant honeymoon period. You don't really let your guard down in the way you would if you were confident someone would not leave you. I've argued with him but not really too heavily and sometimes I'm not sure if it's because we get along or if because I don't want to rock the boat so I don't bother. Probably the latter. he's far from perfect , but I suppose my lack of better options at times makes his positives get magnified and his negatives get buried in denial.

 

Unfortunately I think that maybe I can the kind of person that will be able to forget about him when I have someone else I'm focused on. I quite nearly forgot about him (or enogh to not regularly think about him and be focused on my current person) in the past, and I was genuinly happy with these other people. But then they don't work out and I'm at square one, pining away for MM who is always there.

 

Last night I was almost hoping that I'd find out he started an A with this married woman from his school program who is saying hi at his office yesterday. I swear I almost thought to myself, I hope he starts something with her so that I become so infuriated that I lose my mind and tell his wife everything. It's illogical to be so mad at him for potentially drifting to someone else in my absense-- i mean he cheats on his wife of 14 years, the mother of his four children....do i really think he'd be "monogamous" to me in any way? It's silly isn't it. And yet I became so, so jealous at the mere mention of her name and that she was coming with her son to say hello to him and catch up because she was working with his company on something this month. I damn near almost cried I was so angry about it. It's not normal to feel this way. It's not healthy. I shouldn't be preoccupied with what he's doing when I'm not there because he isn't mine so it doesnt matter.

 

I badly want to be again in a healthy, normal relationship. That's all I've ever wanted. I just start to wonder if it's really in the cards for me.

[KismetGirl]

KG reading your post I get a real sense that you feel you have no agency in your life. Your posts read like a long litany of stuff that happens to you, leaving you at the mercy of the universe. Even your board name, Kismet - fate - suggests something that is done to you rather than something you choose to do.

 

You speak of the bad decisions he has made - but there is no sense in your posts of yourself as an agent making decisions (good or bad) despite it being clear from these last few posts alone that you went into this with your eyes open. You made an informed choice to 1) respond to his message; 2) speak to him; 3) meet with him; 4) resume the affair, despite knowing - and stating - at every step of the way that it would be a bad idea to do so, given the outcomes that you *knew* would follow. You chose this, in an informed way, knowing where it would lead. You have your reasons for doing so - and I'm not referring to a litany of excuses here, I'm referring to deeper psychological reasons that led you to make those choices knowing it would lead you here, again - and until you confront he real reasons that drive these choices, you will continue to make them, and rue them, and continue to feel life is beating up on you and everything is unfair.

 

Life isn't fair. Life isn't unfair, either. Life just is. We encounter challenges and make choices about how to confront those challenges, and sometimes things work out well for us and sometimes they don't. You need to take ownership of your life, and your choices, and start driving your life in the direction you want it to go instead of hoping that "fate" will deliver you to the destination of your choosing. It won't.

 

You say you wish you could convince him.....etc but you can't. You have no control over anyone else's anything, and hoping to have is a waste of emotion. Make a list of what you can change in your life, and what you want to change, and stop handing him or anyone else the agency. This is a guy you cannot even trust to share critically important information - like, the impending birth of his youngest child - with you; how can you believe he truly has your best interests at heart? Why then hand over the keys to your life to him, when his best interests are so often diametrically opposed to your own?

 

You're right of course. My board name is a bit of sarcasm on my part-- (and funny I think you're the first person who's ever noticed it really)-- I think I wish that I could just sit back and hope fate brought me into a state of happiness but at the end of the day I'm really just tired and don't really believe fate exists. Maybe I often feel like I have really bad luck in certain areas of my life, but I suppose inherently there must be some fallacy in my intrinsic cognition. IE- my life is an accumulation of my choices. Life just is, as you said.

 

I could have deleted his email. I didnt. I could have said I cant meet you. I didnt. I got suckered into his promises that this time it would be different when nothing about it was different at all. In fact, now that he moved into the suburbs, instead of coming to my house like he always used to, I'm the one that travels to see him now! So yes, he's made more effort to spend more time with me when I do see him, but at the end of the day I'm the one making all the effort and making it easy for him. I've never been a priority. Never will be.

 

Everything you said is insightful and I agree with. So then why do I remain so weak? Really...this distance is my only blessing right now. Maybe my new contract extension was the only thing fate knew how to do to get me to make some kind of positive move. Who knows.

[adna89]

no....never would.

 

Then get rid of him.10 years with him,,this means you most probably are not so young anymore? 10 years is a long time,it is too late for him to leave and be with you,even if he did it would most probably not work.

 

Would you even want a family with him? A guy with 4 kids,cheated on wife for whole time

[KismetGirl]

Then get rid of him.10 years with him,,this means you most probably are not so young anymore? 10 years is a long time,it is too late for him to leave and be with you,even if he did it would most probably not work.

 

Would you even want a family with him? A guy with 4 kids,cheated on wife for whole time

 

I'm still pretty young....sadly I started up with him when I was barely done with university. I was very, very young when this started. Granted I am not in my early 20's anymore but I wouldn't call myself old. Still. I'm running out of time to waste if I want something serious, yes, that much is true. Somehow the stupidity of my uber-youth has stayed with me when it comes to him. Alas.

[whichwayisup]

I think it won't take as long to work through the pain this time around. You know what to expect and you know what to do to work through letting go and detaching. I bet too, it'll be much easier than you think, especially if you hang onto that anger! Anger seems to push people in the right direction, it makes you get up and change things. Sadness and grieving is a process but things seem to fall into place and make a lot more sense when anger hits.

[KismetGirl]

I think it won't take as long to work through the pain this time around. You know what to expect and you know what to do to work through letting go and detaching. I bet too, it'll be much easier than you think, especially if you hang onto that anger! Anger seems to push people in the right direction, it makes you get up and change things. Sadness and grieving is a process but things seem to fall into place and make a lot more sense when anger hits.

 

I want to say that everytime I go through this the separation gets easier. In some ways yes, in some ways no. The anger builds up, which helps I suppose. Anger is infinitely more productive of an emotion than sadness (both are exhausting in their own way but at least can be energizing).

 

I am overseas again. Just got back. MM has texted me to say have a good trip back but not much else. I'm too tired to think too much about him, which is good. I have to move into my new apartment, get settled back in. The weather is beautiful here-- paradise and sunshine make the air smell good. I'm trying to think of good things, positive things. My new landlady made a joke as she handed me the keys and said she hoped this apartment would bring me the same good luck it brought her last two tenants even though it doesnt work in her favour to keep people-- while they lived here they both ended up meeting their future spouses and is why they moved out. Trying to take it as a sign from fate that maybe things will look up now that I'm back in many ways.

 

I have a lot to focus on here-- my friends, new job and research opportunities, brilliant weather and easy travel on weekends, a breadth of culture-- hell, I live a 4 minutes walk from the beach.

 

It's very easy for me to fall into the same depressive habits anywhere, of course. I don't know THAT many people here, even after all this time (and the friends I do have are mostly in couples). I sat on my new balcony today after I got from the airport, closed my eyes and listened to the sound of people sitting in cafes talking and laughing, walking by. There is always so much to experience if you can get the energy to do so. Lately I've struggled to maintain happiness, maintain a sense of energy and optimism and fortitude. I don't want to fall into that pattern again because it's when I get like that I feel the most lonely, and when I feel the most lonely is when I fall back into HIM. And as much as I know he cares for me, with every day that passes I have to admit to myself more and more how little priority I really have for him, if any at all. I know he thinks about me. I know I mean something because after years of not speaking he hadn't forgotten about me.

 

But yesterday morning, I had gotten an "annoyed" message from him. Apparently when I set up my new networking account (you know, the facebook-type networking website for professionals) my account had automatically sent an invitation to connect to him, because when we reconnected months ago we had emailed and his work email must have automatically gotten into my contacts.

 

Anyway to make a long story short, I accidentally sent him a networking request to connect, totally inadvertently, and he texted me to say "So, seriously, was that networking request really necessary?"

 

And it just bothered me. I know that he prefers we keep all communication to "non traceable" means such as secret texting-apps and phone calls at work, and he's paranoid about his work email because his wife has found out about us through work emails before. But honestly it should have been obvious it was inadvertent. Like of ALL the effing things I could do to get him in trouble, an online networking professional invitation would not be my first choice. It bothered me. That he should have the nerve to be annoyed that I god forbid did something remotely "in the open". That I am supposed to just smile and shut my mouth and hide in the shadows, appearing only in hotel rooms at his convenience to do with as he likes before he goes back to his "real" life-- a life that never has and never will include me. At least when we worked together we had some semblance of normality because we hung out together in public as co-workers. Now I realise I've become completely this hidden piece of trash. I'm there for when he feels like feeling better about himself because his wife hates him and hasn't f**ked him in almost a year since she last got pregnant, so, HEY, let's meet up with good ol' KG who will shower us with compliments and blow us and shag us and give us stimulating conversation you don't get at home and then I can leave her in the hotel room and go to be with my kids and live my white-picket fence existence with no one any the wiser.

 

So effing tired of being used like that, of meaning nothing. I am a good catch for f**k's sake. A fairly young, fairly attractive, funny, kind, sexually open, goddam doctor. And I'm sitting being scolded by a freaking a**hole for accidentally sending him an innocent networking professional invite in his work email.

 

The irony of this entire situation is just absurd sometimes. I want to punch him in the face today. All I want is to be treated like a normal human being by him. Not just for the few hours we are together, but in general. And the more time goes, it seems like the less he tries. When we reconnected it was all sweet words abotu missing me and how it would be better this time and how he would make more effort. I woudl get kisses and affectionate texts all day long about how excited he was thinking about me. Now I barely so much as get a "miss you" because, hey, why should he invest energy in paying a lot of attention to me when I'm always there anyway, right?

 

I'm the biggest effing idiot on earth. I swear.

[Lurkeraspect]

I'd just keep reading your last post over and over again. This guy is a user and a loser.

[Quiet Storm]

I am a good catch for f**k's sake. A fairly young, fairly attractive, funny, kind, sexually open, goddam doctor.

 

When people say this, but continue to accept less than they know they deserve, it's probably low self worth. You logically know that you are awesome, but you must not really feel it (deep down inside) because you continue to seek his responses, his attention, his love. Your actions (continuing to engage with him), don't match your words (I'm a good catch).

 

There are many smart and successful women like this. When you are using logic & intellect, you are on point. But when it comes to matters of the heart and your emotions, you are attracted to someone unworthy and feel powerless.

 

In order to get out of this cycle, your logical brain has to step in when your emotions are weak. It's not just about realizing he's not good for you (as you know). You have to go further and force your logical mind to take the reigns when your emotions take over. Your grown adult self must babysit that emotional girl who's stupidly in love and stop her from making choices that will just end up hurting her. That smart & strong part of you must love & protect the weak part of you.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Quiet Storm

[anna121]

That was an idiotic response on his part. Like the rest of his responses.

 

It's like he doesn't know you very well, or he can't think outside of his own frame of existence. Because anyone who can would have realized it was most likely an accident.

[couchcushion]

KG, what did you say, if anything, to his lame message?

 

p.s. we are very much alike. Articulate, professional women, who are putting up with BS.

[KismetGirl]

When people say this, but continue to accept less than they know they deserve, it's probably low self worth. You logically know that you are awesome, but you must not really feel it (deep down inside) because you continue to seek his responses, his attention, his love. Your actions (continuing to engage with him), don't match your words (I'm a good catch).

 

There are many smart and successful women like this. When you are using logic & intellect, you are on point. But when it comes to matters of the heart and your emotions, you are attracted to someone unworthy and feel powerless.

 

In order to get out of this cycle, your logical brain has to step in when your emotions are weak. It's not just about realizing he's not good for you (as you know). You have to go further and force your logical mind to take the reigns when your emotions take over. Your grown adult self must babysit that emotional girl who's stupidly in love and stop her from making choices that will just end up hurting her. That smart & strong part of you must love & protect the weak part of you.

 

Im not sure what to do anymore honestly. Logical thinking has never been my problem, but combining the logical thought with appropriate emotional action is. As I am doing it I know it's the wrong decision and in that moment I just dont care. It's literally the same thing as an addict of any drug, which scares the sh*t out of me, because I know full well that an addict will really never quit a drug until they are "ready" (and yes, you can try to force the situation but in reality they have to be ready or they'll keep going back over and over). The problem is , what if I'm never ready?

 

In some ways I think if I found a replacement (eg- a normal relationship) I wouldnt care about him. And I wouldnt. I have had boyfriends in the last ten years, and when I had those boyfriends, I didnt sit thinking about MM and would not have cheated on them with him.

 

Some say that the ironic part of that is that Ill never find a boyfriend while Im talking to him. Im not sure that's true. I really try very hard to date, meet new people, invest in friends.

 

Since Ive been back overseas, yes, I have responded to MM's texts. I often randomly just send him a picture of what Im doing, what new adventure Im on that day, and he's always amused, saying he wishes he could be here. And I get dismal thinking he will never be able to be here.But I try to move on.

 

In the two weeks or so that Ive been back, I've been on, what....5 dates? That's no small feat. Im not the worst person in the world at finding people to go out with. But....nothing.

 

I went out on a second date with someone today. The guy has to be one of the sweetest, most romantic people I've ever met. Total gentelman on the first date-- didnt even try to kiss me. I thought that maybe I could be attracted to him. It wasn't love at first sight, I didnt have butterflies, but I thought there could be potential. He's a nice guy. I thought, let's give him a chance. So we went on another date today and he took me into the country, spent six hours driving with me, took me to this amazing off-the-beaten-path restaurant, talked with me for hours-- the guy spent all day and at least $300 on me today. Didn't allow me to pay for a thing. I invited him upstairs after we got back to the city , thinking, ok, we had such a nice day, I'll attempt a physical encounter. He kissed me. Nothing. I literally felt like kissing a wall or a relative. I just can't force myself to like people-- what can I do? I damn near got depressed about it because he is SUCH a nice guy, not bad looking, obviosuly adores me, is romantic and creative and thinks of such fun amazing dates to take me on....and i swear just could not properly kiss me. I felt absolutely nothing.

 

it's like fate doesnt want me to find anyone. It's like I'm doomed to being attracted or having chemistry with people completely unavailable or wrong for me.

 

I've had bad dates before and it was just whatever. I didnt think about it. But i think i was SO hoping it would work with this guy becuase he was so sweet to me....and after such an AMAZING day in the country feeling so abysmal when he kissed me. After he leaves, who of course texts me but MM, and Im yet again reminded of what amazing chemistry can feel like, and being totally upset that I cant seem to find it with anyone lately. I HAVE found it before in the last ten years, its just so effing rare. So upsetting today I dont even know what to do with myself. Ive been so positive since I got back here, I really have been. Going out, talking to friends. But this one area of my life...my god I just cant make it work no matter what i do!!!

[KismetGirl]

That was an idiotic response on his part. Like the rest of his responses.

 

It's like he doesn't know you very well, or he can't think outside of his own frame of existence. Because anyone who can would have realized it was most likely an accident.

 

yes, it was obviously an accident but he's a selfish pr*ck now innit. The world revolves around him.

[KismetGirl]

KG, what did you say, if anything, to his lame message?

 

p.s. we are very much alike. Articulate, professional women, who are putting up with BS.

 

What could i say? I said it was obviously an accident and i didnt mean for it to happen. he never mentioned it again.

 

if you are even remotely in the beginnign of your A I hope you are able to get out now. Its dark on this side. If you are entrenched in it like me, even from thousands of miles away as I am now...then i feel your pain and hope you can be stronger than i.

[whichwayisup]

Since Ive been back overseas, yes, I have responded to MM's texts. I often randomly just send him a picture of what Im doing, what new adventure Im on that day, and he's always amused, saying he wishes he could be here. And I get dismal thinking he will never be able to be here.But I try to move on.

My advice, stop being so much in touch with him. Detach!! You are keeping the affair alive long distance and yes, your feelings too. You can go on 100 dates and not one of those guys will measure up. You can't 'invest' in someone on an intimate level as long as MM is still in your daily thoughts, so much contact going on.