SearchingForMyself Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 When did I say that? [/ QUOTE] Page 15, post 213: I perceive this to be an expectation. Uh huh. But if it doesn't turn into a relationship, how much money am I out? How much money in free stuff for you will I have wasted on you? You'd say that's my problem, and you'd be right. Which is why I date the way I do. I'm dead serious. You're not the one dating and paying for all this stuff and actually having this experiences. We are. So it's perfectly natural that you have no basis of comparison, because you're the one getting all the free stuff. Not at all. I think it's treating you like the perfectly capable adult you are. Who am to presume that you need a man to pay for you? Isn't that what feminism is all about? Women taking care of themselves? I mean, that's the message that's certainly been conveyed all these years. I'm not looking for romance on a first date. I'm looking for compatibility. The difference is I spend it on women who don't expect it simply for being a woman, and who are grateful for it. I'm not saying you aren't grateful when your man does...I honestly don't know you at all, so I have no basis upon which to make that judgment. But in my experience, women who expect it typically take it for granted. And I won't waste one red cent on them. That's because it's not your money being spent, do you don't have a vested interest in keeping it solvent. I've lived dirt poor. I mean, DIRT POOR. As in, I was lucky to have $75 to spend on money for food for both my daughter and I for an entire month. When you live day by day, you really begin to learn the true value of a dollar. So yes, I track every cent I spend. And I worked insanely hard to get better jobs and increase my income, and I've succeed. I have struggled to build a substantial savings, but I now have over $3000 in cold hard cash set aside for a rainy day and for home improvements. I don't know your past, and I could be wrong, but I get the impression you've never lived poor. It totally changes how you perceive money, and I do NOT spend it unless I get some kind of return on that investment. I had no choice but to live that way just to survive. Dude, we need to be friends. Very few people I know on here know what being homeless or poor does to a mans view of money. I am still that poor man. To us, we want to make sure what we are putting our time and money in something worthwhile, because what we give we've known it may never return. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SearchingForMyself Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Yep. Which is why I tell the guys on here to quit OLD and go to places with a better ratio. Agree. OLD is a waste of time if you are not ideal. Why let yourself be part of a catalogue when you're not a rich Calvin Klein model? Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Exactly. Of course it's easy to say "paying for dates is no big deal" when you're not the one paying for it. It's like me saying: "Paying for birth control is no big deal" (please note, I have no idea how much this actually costs, I've just heard women complain about the costs). This is an outstanding argument. I could easily say "traditionally, women are responsible for paying for birth control. If a woman expects me to pay halfsies, she wouldn't get any more dates". It wouldn't apply to me since I've had a vasectomy (BEST $5 I ever spent), but if men are required to pay for dates, then women are required to pay for their birth control. Seems fair Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I don't know your past, and I could be wrong, but I get the impression you've never lived poor. It totally changes how you perceive money, and I do NOT spend it unless I get some kind of return on that investment. I had no choice but to live that way just to survive. Isn't that an expectation from you? That if you pay for the date or buy her "free stuff" you get something? What kind of return on investment do you expect from a first date? A second date? A kiss? Sex? If things don't work out with your girlfriend, will you look back at the $300 you spent on your weekend getaway and think it was a waste and that she was a bad person for getting "free stuff" from you? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 This is an outstanding argument. I could easily say "traditionally, women are responsible for paying for birth control. If a woman expects me to pay halfsies, she wouldn't get any more dates". It wouldn't apply to me since I've had a vasectomy (BEST $5 I ever spent), but if men are required to pay for dates, then women are required to pay for their birth control. Seems fair Sounds fair to me, too! I've never in my entire life asked a man to pay for my birth control pills. (However, it's moot now for people in the U.S. since birth control pills are free under Obamacare.) Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Truth be told, I tend to think that just about everyone is a douchebag unless proven otherwise. This is probably the fundamental difference between us, which explains why we butt heads. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Dude, we need to be friends. Very few people I know on here know what being homeless or poor does to a mans view of money. I am still that poor man. To us, we want to make sure what we are putting our time and money in something worthwhile, because what we give we've known it may never return. Totally! I think a good portion of women today just expect men to throw money, food, drinks, and other stuff at them just because they're women. They have no concept of being poor, money management, or the pressures of being expected to provide for family and a high standard of living. That's why I walked away from it completely. I provide ny MY standard of living, and my little girl's....no one else's. Hell, I flat out told my GF that her financial security is her responsibility, and that when we live together I expect her to contribute towards the household. I want a partner, not an obligation out a liability. Before I get eviscerated, I will say right here and now that I know there are plenty of women out there who grew up poor and/or know the value of a dollar. I'm not saying there aren't any here on LS either. But those who expect free $h!t usually learned that behavior from past experiences. In other words, that were handed everything on a silver platter. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I am the kind of person who if somebody doesn't act entitled I am very generous but when somebody acts like I owe them something I get very stingy. toolforgrowth made a very good point about having been poor. I have been poor as well and I have what I have because I hustled hard for it I tend to stay away from people who act entitled to it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Isn't that an expectation from you? That if you pay for the date or buy her "free stuff" you get something? What kind of return on investment do you expect from a first date? A second date? A kiss? Sex? If things don't work out with your girlfriend, will you look back at the $300 you spent on your weekend getaway and think it was a waste and that she was a bad person for getting "free stuff" from you? Actually, no. If I choose to spend money on a woman, then I'm choosing to accept that risk. I don't expect sexual reciprocity in exchange for purchased items. That's essentially prostitution, and that doesn't hold my interest. Not that I have a negative opinion of prostitution, because I don't. It's just not my thing. What I DO do is thoroughly vet each woman I date to determine their worthiness of my spending my hard earned cash on them. If they fail, I keep my money. If they pass, then it's a non issue. Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 What I DO do is thoroughly vet each woman I date to determine their worthiness of my spending my hard earned cash on them. If they fail, I keep my money. If they pass, then it's a non issue. So you do all of this vetting and ask all of the questions you mentioned above on your first date? Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 So you do all of this vetting and ask all of the questions you mentioned above on your first date? You bet I do. I asked them to my GF on our very first date. And you know what? She LIKED it. She said, "That's when I knew that you weren't a player just looking for sex, and that you were serious about finding a partner." She was right. Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 You bet I do. I asked them to my GF on our very first date. And you know what? She LIKED it. She said, "That's when I knew that you weren't a player just looking for sex, and that you were serious about finding a partner." She was right. Don't get me wrong, it's not a job interview. We chatted about little things, joked, laughed, and we even played a practical joke on a mutual friend (which left us in stitches!! Good times...). But I work these questions in throughout the date, and pay very close attention to her answers, tone, inflection, and body language. Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Sounds fair to me, too! I've never in my entire life asked a man to pay for my birth control pills. (However, it's moot now for people in the U.S. since birth control pills are free under Obamacare.) I think that's great! No sarcasm, I really mean it. And for the record, I think Obamacare covering birth control is a great thing. If Viagra is covered, then bc should TOTALLY be covered. If I were king, I'd put bc in the water. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Im still struggling with the idea some guys are coming up with that if a woman likes a guy to pay a dinner tab in the courting phase of a relationship, that somehow that's going to immediately put her in the selfish and entitled, gold digger group... I mean, with that thinking, if a woman didn't put out right away, would that immediately qualify her as a cold fish? TFY 4 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Im still struggling with the idea some guys are coming up with that if a woman likes a guy to pay a dinner tab in the courting phase of a relationship, that somehow that's going to immediately put her in the selfish and entitled, gold digger group... I mean, with that thinking, if a woman didn't put out right away, would that immediately qualify her as a cold fish? TFY Not necessarily. I view money and sex to be very similar. Women don't have to put out sexually until they feel comfortable with their date. Likewise, I don't put out financially until I feel comfortable with my date. Typically, by the time a woman even gets to the first date with me, I usually feel comfortable enough to pay for the meal. But not always. And if I'm not comfortable, I keep my wallet in my pocket. Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Im still struggling with the idea some guys are coming up with that if a woman likes a guy to pay a dinner tab in the courting phase of a relationship, that somehow that's going to immediately put her in the selfish and entitled, gold digger group... I mean, with that thinking, if a woman didn't put out right away, would that immediately qualify her as a cold fish?It is acceptable for a woman to wait and properly vet a man before sleeping with him. I have no problem with this and fully support it. Why is it unacceptable for man to wait and properly vet a woman before investing in her financially? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 They're not selfless, entitled gold diggers, they're regular women who feel like it's no big deal, "why not just pay" it's nice" and we try and explain what's going on today, with the multidating and flaking out after heavy searching, that if y'all can understand and work with us a little bit. They say "no that's a turn off." I think that's kind of a selfish POV, but okay fine, if I wanna play, I gotta pay. That's all Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Isn't that an expectation from you? That if you pay for the date or buy her "free stuff" you get something? What kind of return on investment do you expect from a first date? A second date? A kiss? Sex? If things don't work out with your girlfriend, will you look back at the $300 you spent on your weekend getaway and think it was a waste and that she was a bad person for getting "free stuff" from you?Honest answers: First Date (she determines she's not interested): She pays her half Second Date (assuming I paid for first date, she determines she's not interested): She pays for second date Relationship Ends: I expect nothing back 2 Link to post Share on other sites
toolforgrowth Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 They're not selfless, entitled gold diggers, they're regular women who feel like it's no big deal, "why not just pay" it's nice" and we try and explain what's going on today, with the multidating and flaking out after heavy searching, that if y'all can understand and work with us a little bit. They say "no that's a turn off." I think that's kind of a selfish POV, but okay fine, if I wanna play, I gotta pay. That's all Don't roll over and accept it. Stand up for your convictions. If you don't think it's okay, then say "I don't think it's ok". Who cares what the women who will not date you for it think? It's YOUR life and YOUR money. Live and spend them on YOUR terms. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 They're not selfless, entitled gold diggers, they're regular women who feel like it's no big deal, "why not just pay" it's nice" and we try and explain what's going on today, with the multidating and flaking out after heavy searching, that if y'all can understand and work with us a little bit. They say "no that's a turn off." I think that's kind of a selfish POV, but okay fine, if I wanna play, I gotta pay. That's all I'm thinking that these are two different groups of people: the multidaters, and the more traditional daters looking for signs of investment. The existence of multidating is just another reason that paying is a sign of investment (investing in this one woman, rather than dating many). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I am the kind of person who if somebody doesn't act entitled I am very generous but when somebody acts like I owe them something I get very stingy. toolforgrowth made a very good point about having been poor. I have been poor as well and I have what I have because I hustled hard for it I tend to stay away from people who act entitled to it. Maybe you can understand why some women aren't so thrilled by the idea of someone going out with them, and expecting sex right away. A lot of men here, seem to think that they're owed sex, and won't bother with a woman if she won't go to bed with them. I remember two men saying that they expected to be allowed to cop a feel of a breast, at least, if they bought a woman dinner. Unsurprisingly, these men weren't even getting first dates. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I'm thinking that these are two different groups of people: the multidaters, and the more traditional daters looking for signs of investment. The existence of multidating is just another reason that paying is a sign of investment (investing in this one woman, rather than dating many). And what should I do about that? Hey you know something searchingfor brought up and it came up on a thread a couple of days ago about ethnicity. I know this place has all these short guys crying about women don't want them cause they're short? I don't know how true the short thing is, but the ethnicity thing is major. We can't navigate the dating market like white men can. To make matter worse, there's a sh*t load of ethnic women who only date white men. So we don't know what we might get. A multidater, a flaker (which is common) and I've run into 1 gold digger who liked me because I drove a BMW. Link to post Share on other sites
StanMusial Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Maybe you can understand why some women aren't so thrilled by the idea of someone going out with them, and expecting sex right away. A lot of men here, seem to think that they're owed sex, and won't bother with a woman if she won't go to bed with them. I remember two men saying that they expected to be allowed to cop a feel of a breast, at least, if they bought a woman dinner. Unsurprisingly, these men weren't even getting first dates. There are 10+ pages explaining this from the man's point of view, except regarding payment for the date instead of sex. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Really, list our names. I don't do that. I think I need to get back to flesh and blood people before I am permanently warped.... They can easily be found on dating sites and in clubs. Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Really, list our names. I don't do that. I think I need to get back to flesh and blood people before I am permanently warped.... Don't listen to him. I'm only on here quickly, but I think it's someone who just comes here to wind people up. That said, it was jarring to read this thread last night, after spending time away from the forum. Link to post Share on other sites
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