Women don't play by the rules

[jay1983]

I feel for you, man....but.

 

I usually know within an hour of talking to someone if they are a buyer or not...Id suggest that rather than taking a hard line and looking like a bitter jackass to a large percentage of women, you work on your skills of perception and body language...No woman would ever be that slick...I know the signals from a mile away...

 

Everyone has a bad experience once in a while...and also, we do things in this life that don't always make sense in terms of 2 + 2....but we do them to maintain or develop relationships....Heck. I have friends I do more for than they do for me, but who cares?

 

And btw, women have to vet out strange men, because if they aren't careful they can wind up in the trunk of a car in long term parking, or raped and left for dead....Its not the same "vetting" you are talking about...

 

 

TFY

 

Has your intuition ever been wrong? Like damn, I really thought he was gonna buy, then he backed out.

[toolforgrowth]

I feel for you, man....but.

 

I usually know within an hour of talking to someone if they are a buyer or not...Id suggest that rather than taking a hard line and looking like a bitter jackass to a large percentage of women, you work on your skills of perception and body language...No woman would ever be that slick...I know the signals from a mile away...

 

Everyone has a bad experience once in a while...and also, we do things in this life that don't always make sense in terms of 2 + 2....but we do them to maintain or develop relationships....Heck. I have friends I do more for than they do for me, but who cares?

 

And btw, women have to vet out strange men, because if they aren't careful they can wind up in the trunk of a car in long term parking, or raped and left for dead....Its not the same "vetting" you are talking about...

 

 

TFY

 

I totally get your argument. But let's take a look at numbers here.

 

How many women end up raped and in someone's trunk?

 

Conversely, how many men end up with having their kids taken away and placed in indentured wage slavery via child support and/or alimony for at best ten to fifteen years, and at worst, the rest of their lives?

 

Since 60% of all divorces are initiated by women...I think we know which number is bigger.

 

I don't know your history, but I've been placed in that camp. It's a very real threat to the majority of men today.

 

I'm in NO WAY minimizing rape. I think rapists should be castrated, provided rape can actually be proven. Just ask the Duke lacrosse team.

[SearchingForMyself]

Uh yeah, the homeless guy posting in here is afraid a woman might steal his spot under the bridge.

 

Lmao. Hey, that spot is valuable!

[GorillaTheater]

I totally get your argument. But let's take a look at numbers here.

 

How many women end up raped and in someone's trunk?

 

Conversely, how many men end up with having their kids taken away and placed in indentured wage slavery via child support and/or alimony for at best ten to fifteen years, and at worst, the rest of their lives?

 

Since 60% of all divorces are initiated by women...I think we know which number is bigger.

 

I don't know your history, but I've been placed in that camp. It's a very real threat to the majority of men today.

 

I'm in NO WAY minimizing rape. I think rapists should be castrated, provided rape can actually be proven. Just ask the Duke lacrosse team.

 

I'm not sure what this has to do with all the angst over picking up a dinner tab.

[Shining One]

I usually know within an hour of talking to someone if they are a buyer or not...Id suggest that rather than taking a hard line and looking like a bitter jackass to a large percentage of women, you work on your skills of perception and body language...No woman would ever be that slick...I know the signals from a mile away...

 

Everyone has a bad experience once in a while...and also, we do things in this life that don't always make sense in terms of 2 + 2....but we do them to maintain or develop relationships....Heck. I have friends I do more for than they do for me, but who cares?

I agree that this is my problem to deal with. I also have friends I do more for, but I value them, and I don't consider it a "loss" when I give more to them.

And btw, women have to vet out strange men, because if they aren't careful they can wind up in the trunk of a car in long term parking, or raped and left for dead....Its not the same "vetting" you are talking about...

While I agree with this, women vet men for more than this and this is not what I was referring to. It's not like women go: "I'm confident you're not a murderer or a rapist, let's hop into bed". They vet a man in other aspects before sleeping with him, and this is what I was referring to.

[autumnnight]

But I don't like being objectified for my money any more than you like being objectified for your sex organ.

 

This makes sense to me. A man is not an income or a car or a house or a flashy watch or whatever the heck some women seem to care about. I would imagine that when a woman asks a man what kind of car he drives it probably feels a bit like when a man asks us "so babe what's yer cup size?"

 

You feel like a thing to use instead of a person to KNOW

[SearchingForMyself]

This makes sense to me. A man is not an income or a car or a house or a flashy watch or whatever the heck some women seem to care about. I would imagine that when a woman asks a man what kind of car he drives it probably feels a bit like when a man asks us "so babe what's yer cup size?"

 

You feel like a thing to use instead of a person to KNOW

 

Preeeeach!!!!

[Rejected Rosebud]

How many women end up raped and in someone's trunk?

 

Conversely, how many men end up with having their kids taken away and placed in indentured wage slavery via child support and/or alimony for at best ten to fifteen years, and at worst, the rest of their lives?

 

Ok also rape is not analogous with divorce no matter how bad one party gets screwed in the divorce.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I'm not sure what this has to do with all the angst over picking up a dinner tab.

Buying coffee or perish the thought, even dinner, is pretty close to being raped I guess, to some guys.

[SearchingForMyself]

Don't mind me, just getting bored of this thread.

[toolforgrowth]

This makes sense to me. A man is not an income or a car or a house or a flashy watch or whatever the heck some women seem to care about. I would imagine that when a woman asks a man what kind of car he drives it probably feels a bit like when a man asks us "so babe what's yer cup size?"

 

You feel like a thing to use instead of a person to KNOW

 

Yes!!! Hallelujah! Lol

 

You know, if I had explained it this way like ten pages ago, things probably would have gone a lot smoother.

 

When a woman says she expects me to pay for dates, it makes feel as though that's the only possible value I could provide her. Never mind companionship and good conversation...If I don't pay for her, my value is immediately reduced to practically nothing.

 

See, I get how when say they don't want to be used for sex. I truly, honestly get it. Because I don't want to be used for my money. I'm a person, not an ATM. I have hopes, dreams, and ambitions. To have all if that minimized because I don't want to pay for a woman's beer or onion rings or oyster shooter is just degrading.

[SearchingForMyself]

Buying coffee or perish the thought, even dinner, is pretty close to being raped I guess, to some guys.

 

Dating is a risk. You come in wanting love, expect the risks. You can either land safely or crash.

 

But not playing is just missing out on life!

[toolforgrowth]

Ok also rape is not analogous with divorce no matter how bad one party gets screwed in the divorce.

 

Divorced men are eight times more likely to commit suicide than divorced women.

 

Why Is No One Paying Attention To Divorced Dads? | Vicki Larson

 

Suicide is also the leading killer of middle aged men in the UK.

 

So while I agree that rape is heinous, disgusting, and reprehensible, I also believe that a society that breaks men to such a great degree that they're killing themselves in droves is equally heinous.

 

Since this is off topic, I'm not going to comment further on it. You can PM me or start a new thread if you wish to discuss it further.

[thefooloftheyear]

Yes!!! Hallelujah! Lol

 

You know, if I had explained it this way like ten pages ago, things probably would have gone a lot smoother.

 

When a woman says she expects me to pay for dates, it makes feel as though that's the only possible value I could provide her. Never mind companionship and good conversation...If I don't pay for her, my value is immediately reduced to practically nothing.

 

See, I get how when say they don't want to be used for sex. I truly, honestly get it. Because I don't want to be used for my money. I'm a person, not an ATM. I have hopes, dreams, and ambitions. To have all if that minimized because I don't want to pay for a woman's beer or onion rings or oyster shooter is just degrading.

 

 

I understand what you are saying, but I feel like you are just looking at the economics of it, in terms of dollars and cents...

 

Its 2015...There aren't many women that couldn't afford to pay their own way...In fact, they may be better equipped than most of the guys to pay..I dint believe they view it as an issue of economics...They want to know what type of guy they have chosen to date and what are his character traits..Who knows? Maybe they are even thinking far enough ahead that if they have kids with the guy, is he going to be the one that pressures his wife back to work 2 days after the baby is born?...Who knows?

 

Guys use all kinds of stuff to disqualify women...tits too small...ass too big, too quiet, too loud, too flirty, father is a dick...blah...blah...blah...OK...fine..

 

I just don't view it as automatically thinking you are now their Sugar Daddy....They just want to know what type of guy you are...and most women just dont like cheap guys with tight wallets....Not early on, anyway...

 

Ive said all I could....enjoy your night, all...

 

 

TFY

[TouchedByViolet]

I have never heard anyone say "women don't play by the rules" before... there are no rules to love anyways.... it's a free for all.

 

As far as guys making similar threads weekly, that just speaks to a shared experience many men are having... yet the OP and others have some sort of problem with men expressing themselves or feel like it's made up or something...

[toolforgrowth]

Yeah, this isn't the thread to talk about rape. A different poster brought it up, a tangent was created...let's get back on topic.

[toolforgrowth]

I understand what you are saying, but I feel like you are just looking at the economics of it, in terms of dollars and cents...

 

Its 2015...There aren't many women that couldn't afford to pay their own way...In fact, they may be better equipped than most of the guys to pay..I dint believe they view it as an issue of economics...They want to know what type of guy they have chosen to date and what are his character traits..Who knows? Maybe they are even thinking far enough ahead that if they have kids with the guy, is he going to be the one that pressures his wife back to work 2 days after the baby is born?...Who knows?

 

Guys use all kinds of stuff to disqualify women...tits too small...ass too big, too quiet, too loud, too flirty, father is a dick...blah...blah...blah...OK...fine..

 

I just don't view it as automatically thinking you are now their Sugar Daddy....They just want to know what type of guy you are...and most women just dont like cheap guys with tight wallets....Not early on, anyway...

 

Ive said all I could....enjoy your night, all...

 

 

TFY

 

Nope, it's not the economics. If it were, I would spend literally nothing on my GF.

 

It's how it makes me feel. I feel as though it reduces all the other things I bring into a relationship. That no matter how respectful, loyal, understanding, patient, you name it, that I am, that it all means nothing unless I fork over cash.

 

There's more to me than my money.

[jay1983]

It's kinda coming to halt.

 

Did we win? lol

[StanMusial]

It's kinda coming to halt.

 

Did we win? lol

 

The verdict is in, men by majority decision.

[xxoo]

Nope, it's not the economics. If it were, I would spend literally nothing on my GF.

 

It's how it makes me feel. I feel as though it reduces all the other things I bring into a relationship. That no matter how respectful, loyal, understanding, patient, you name it, that I am, that it all means nothing unless I fork over cash.

 

There's more to me than my money.

 

We're just talking about the courting stage. It's literally a few dates until things even out and become more mutually giving. And if the investment doesn't become mutual within a few dates (tops), that should be a sign to stop investing!

[toolforgrowth]

It's kinda coming to halt.

 

Did we win? lol

 

I think they just gave up trying to get us to change our minds. Which is a good thing as far as in concerned!

 

On the flip side, we men have our own business to take care of. It's easier for me to be picky because I've worked hard to drastically improve my financial situation. I'm sitting pretty at the age of 35, and it's only going to get better. I take good care of myself.

 

But there is truth to what women say about men who are socially awkward, who game all day/night, and who don't actually do anything to be attractive to the opposite sex, but yet expect super models, or at least really attractive women. They have to have at least a LITTLE bit of charisma.

 

Both genders have to have something to offer in order to be viable options.

[Phoe]

Has anyone in this thread had a relationship start with nothing but free / low cost dates?

 

Yes, me.

 

A date can be a walk through a bookstore, a night time stargazing session, a local free concert, etc.

 

It doesn't have to be dinner and drinks. And if it IS dinner and drinks, there's no need for to the cost to get out of hand either. It can still be done at a reasonable cost.

 

If a woman is taking in drink after drink after drink, spending your money - why do you care if what you say is a turn off? Cut that crap off! She's being seriously excessive.

[toolforgrowth]

We're just talking about the courting stage. It's literally a few dates until things even out and become more mutually giving. And if the investment doesn't become mutual within a few dates (tops), that should be a sign to stop investing!

 

But in the meantime, I'm still out all that money with nothing to show for it.

 

I get your argument, but I value the money more. It's that simple. With that money, I could take my daughter to the movies, or take her to other child-friendly places in town, or treat myself to beers and sushi, or put it in savings for home improvements, or buy a nice bottle of scotch.

 

I don't invest in something unless it's proven it'll be a worthwhile investment. I'm not going to throw money at something and hope it pans out. That's just silly to me.

[ltjg45]

I agree.

 

But generally, this means that men are going to lose a lot of money on possibly rejected dates. That is what scares them.

 

The way to fix that is knowing that you have full control. Like others have said, you don't have to take her to a restaurant. You can go for a walk in a park or other cheap ideas.

 

There is so many different ways to handle a date that I find it comical and yet sad at the same time when other guys is complaining about the money they spend on dates as if the only way to treat a woman is to take her out to dinner.

 

Seriously? Is the creativity of the guys we have this generation is so bad that it has came to this?

 

And remember: This is coming from a guy that hasn't even dated a woman yet at the age of 28.

[Phoe]

NO it's NOT an expectation, it's something she likes and it's important to her!! She didn't EXPECT it. You know what guys I don't have a lot of money, I am just starting out on my career, my bf makes more than I do and he is also old fashioned that way and likes to take me out and treat me to a nice time, it makes him happy to do it and I appreciate it. I am pretty easy going with money myself and it kind of freaks me out to read about what a HUGE deal it is for some of you to buy something for another person!!! I don't even think twice to pay for the coffee when I am out with a friend or my boyfriend or my mom or whatever, none of them are taking advantage of me, I like to do it! And I get plenty of coffee bought for me too! We just aren't all obsessed with it like some of you are. The girl who has not had $100 spent on her in all her years of dating and seems to be proud of it!! (I think she is in her 30's) WOW. I spent $100 buying coffee or beers for my friends within the last 2 months!! Maybe it's just that being stingy is an unattractive quality, NOT that "women expect" bla bla bla???

 

I actually get REALLY uncomfortable when people spend money on me. I get anxiety over it. So yeah, I'm glad that I haven't had a lot of money spent on me. I don't know why it's an issue that I'm happy about something that literally only affects me, and no one else. And I have no idea what my age has to do with it, but I'm not in my 30's. I'm 25.