Women don't play by the rules

[toolforgrowth]

Can we all agree that what sides of the argument each sides takes is directly affected by what causes more benefit to each side?

 

So no matter what we argue neither side will budge.

 

I am choosing not to participate in marriage as money is very fickle to me.

 

But if you want to be a part of it, that's on you.

 

Maybe I'll change my mind, maybe not. But at 24...I'm in no rush.

 

I would definitely agree. Marriage is beneficial to women, so they work hard to keep it viable. Men, on the other hand, don't really benefit from it. I see the argument that if you're sick, you'd want your spouse to be the one to call the shots regarding your care; that makes sense to me. But I can also write a will that leaves explicit instructions. It's more cumbersome, but not impossible. So there are other ways around it.

 

I just think that feminism has given women a huge inflated sense of self. Our society has become totally gynocentric. For the majority of my life, women have been a detriment to my life in some form or another. Sure, I've had great girlfriends in the past. I've also had horrible experiences, which unfortunately outweigh the good by a long shot.

 

The best time of my life was the two years I was single, until I met my GF last year. That's when it got even better. But I was literally swimming in money. I had some of the best sexual liaisons I'd ever had. I had split time with my daughter, and we bonded like never before. I had more friends than I'd ever had before.

 

Women simply didn't bring any value into my life. In fact, they detracted from it. Until I met my GF last year, who I swear was made for me.

[MrNate 2.0]

I don't even....

[Anela]

This makes me sad, not because I am mad about it, but because our society has become such that I actually understand it.

 

I have recently been so hurt I'm surprised I'm still functioning some days. But I'm not a fool. I am female, and that means I have a small circle of people I can call and cry to, who will allow me more than five minutes to process it, and when I walk around my neighborhood with my ipod on and tears roll, if the neighbors see, they probably feel bad for the sensitive woman rather than thinking I should "man up."

 

I also just get plain mad at women who blow it with a normal decent man. This stems from my marriage I know. I'd listen to my friends gripe about their husband with normal male needs and desires and I would just fume inside from my state of envy and starvation (not an attractive thing to admit).

 

But mostly....I DO one day want to really officially share my life with someone, and it makes me sad that so many really good men are gun shy of that because of what some other heartless woman did to them.

 

I'm glad we can vote and be executives, but I really think a lot of the very extreme pseudo feminism bred a type of anti-feminine and entitled sentiment in the fairer sex that just screwed up the whole system.

 

I don't believe that it has. A number of women in this thread have husbands that they love, boyfriends, *sons*, brothers, and so on - that we care about, and wouldn't want to see them hurt.

 

It makes me sad that these men choose to see most women as soldiers lining up to destroy them, and I feel even more sad when I see other women supporting their views. There is no way that tool is worse off than my mother, or my father was when he was divorced. He married three times, and seems to feel that marriage benefits him. He isn't alone in that.

[BlackOpsZombieGirl]

Both guys AND women have emotional (and financial) baggage because of failed relationships or marriages that they have suffered through and from. And as such, each and every person who has experienced trauma from a failed marriage or relationship has emotionally and psychologically processed it in a way that has forever changed who they were and how they TRUST future potential partners.

 

Take me for example. I've only been married once. But...once is ENOUGH. I'll never ever get married to anyone ever ever again - it doesn't matter how wonderful, loving, caring, kind or trustworthy the guy is. And, I understand where Toolforgrowth is coming from and why he also chooses to never get married again - because for some of us, marriage serves us no purpose, NO benefit and a whole LOT of financial and emotional RISK.

 

I can't speak for anyone but myself; but for me, I'd be totally and completely satisfied with being in a loving, monogamous committed relationship with a decent wonderful guy without making our union legal. In my opinion, it's none of the government's business what I do in my private life and who I cohabitate with. If it ends up that the relationship doesn't work out - for whatever reason - all we'd each have to do is end the relationship and walk away. We wouldn't have to deal with all of the complications, red tape and fattening up attorneys' wallets by having to go through the arduous process of divorcing each other.

 

But, there are other people out there who have been burned financially and emotionally and they STILL have hope that they'll meet a person who won't screw them over, who will be faithful to them, who will love them forever and who will desire to be married to them. God Bless those people.

 

In closing....both men AND women have been screwed over by someone else in one way or another. It's the attitude and mindset we each choose to have after having experienced such negative situations that will determine our future happiness with (and especially, our ability to trust) the next person we date or enter into a relationship with.

 

For those of us who are jaded, distrustful, bitter, resentful, possess negative attitudes and have feelings of sadness and hopelessness, it doesn't make us bad people nor does it make us "not relationship-material" type of people. What it DOES make us is emotionally damaged. And for each emotionally damaged person, there is another equally emotionally damaged person out there who would make a good match for us; because they would definitely understand why we are the way we are...because, they too, have experienced heartbreak, betrayal and financial loss similar to what we have.

 

There is NO specific gender who has "suffered" or who "suffers" more than the other gender with regard to break ups, divorces, settlements, child custody, alimony, child support, heartbreak, infidelity, etc. EACH gender suffers in it's OWN WAY; and it's nearly impossible to measure how much each gender suffers and to what extent - I don't buy polls, research, studies, surveys, what people have told me, what I've seen and/or heard in real life or what I've seen in the media...all of that is merely conjecture at this point.

 

This is NOT a contest about which gender "suffers" MORE or which gender doesn't play by the rules the most! I mean, geezus. If those of us who are single expect to ever find someone to love and to be in a relationship with, we have to concede that BOTH genders have suffered in their lives and have emotional baggage that they live with everyday - we can't have a mild or major negative mindset while dating, as a LOT of people on here have (I'm guilty of this myself).

 

This is why I've taken a hiatus from dating, so that I can take a spiritual and emotional break from the trials and tribulations of finding someone to love...and to trust. I want my mind, my soul and my attitude to be in a much better place before I re-enter the dating jungle. I KNOW that there is a good match for me out there! And, when I start dating again, I want to be filled with hope, happiness, trust and have a positive mindset to have FUN with this process! And each guy that I meet will SENSE this about me and eventually, I'll attract the one guy who will risk his heart, his emotions and will invest his trust in me (as I will risk myself and invest in him!) to embark on this amazing journey that is called Life...together!

 

 

.

[SearchingForMyself]

I would definitely agree. Marriage is beneficial to women, so they work hard to keep it viable. Men, on the other hand, don't really benefit from it. I see the argument that if you're sick, you'd want your spouse to be the one to call the shots regarding your care; that makes sense to me. But I can also write a will that leaves explicit instructions. It's more cumbersome, but not impossible. So there are other ways around it.

 

I just think that feminism has given women a huge inflated sense of self. Our society has become totally gynocentric. For the majority of my life, women have been a detriment to my life in some form or another. Sure, I've had great girlfriends in the past. I've also had horrible experiences, which unfortunately outweigh the good by a long shot.

 

The best time of my life was the two years I was single, until I met my GF last year. That's when it got even better. But I was literally swimming in money. I had some of the best sexual liaisons I'd ever had. I had split time with my daughter, and we bonded like never before. I had more friends than I'd ever had before.

 

Women simply didn't bring any value into my life. In fact, they detracted from it. Until I met my GF last year, who I swear was made for me.

 

Note to self...make money and women will flock to you.

[SearchingForMyself]

Both guys AND women have emotional (and financial) baggage because of failed relationships or marriages that they have suffered through and from. And as such, each and every person who has experienced trauma from a failed marriage or relationship has emotionally and psychologically processed it in a way that has forever changed who they were and how they TRUST future potential partners.

 

Take me for example. I've only been married once. But...once is ENOUGH. I'll never ever get married to anyone ever ever again - it doesn't matter how wonderful, loving, caring, kind or trustworthy the guy is. And, I understand where Toolforgrowth is coming from and why he also chooses to never get married again - because for some of us, marriage serves us no purpose, NO benefit and a whole LOT of financial and emotional RISK.

 

I can't speak for anyone but myself; but for me, I'd be totally and completely satisfied with being in a loving, monogamous committed relationship with a decent wonderful guy without making our union legal. In my opinion, it's none of the government's business what I do in my private life and who I cohabitate with. If it ends up that the relationship doesn't work out - for whatever reason - all we'd each have to do is end the relationship and walk away. We wouldn't have to deal with all of the complications, red tape and fattening up attorneys' wallets by having to go through the arduous process of divorcing each other.

 

But, there are other people out there who have been burned financially and emotionally and they STILL have hope that they'll meet a person who won't screw them over, who will be faithful to them, who will love them forever and who will desire to be married to them. God Bless those people.

 

In closing....both men AND women have been screwed over by someone else in one way or another. It's the attitude and mindset we each choose to have after having experienced such negative situations that will determine our future happiness with (and especially, our ability to trust) the next person we date or enter into a relationship with.

 

For those of us who are jaded, distrustful, bitter, resentful, possess negative attitudes and have feelings of sadness and hopelessness, it doesn't make us bad people nor does it make us "not relationship-material" type of people. What it DOES make us is emotionally damaged. And for each emotionally damaged person, there is another equally emotionally damaged person out there who would make a good match for us; because they would definitely understand why we are the way we are...because, they too, have experienced heartbreak, betrayal and financial loss similar to what we have.

 

There is NO specific gender who has "suffered" or who "suffers" more than the other gender with regard to break ups, divorces, settlements, child custody, alimony, child support, heartbreak, infidelity, etc. EACH gender suffers in it's OWN WAY; and it's nearly impossible to measure how much each gender suffers and to what extent - I don't buy polls, research, studies, surveys, what people have told me, what I've seen and/or heard in real life or what I've seen in the media...all of that is merely conjecture at this point.

 

This is NOT a contest about which gender "suffers" MORE or which gender doesn't play by the rules the most! I mean, geezus. If those of us who are single expect to ever find someone to love and to be in a relationship with, we have to concede that BOTH genders have suffered in their lives and have emotional baggage that they live with everyday - we can't have a mild or major negative mindset while dating, as a LOT of people on here have (I'm guilty of this myself).

 

This is why I've taken a hiatus from dating, so that I can take a spiritual and emotional break from the trials and tribulations of finding someone to love...and to trust. I want my mind, my soul and my attitude to be in a much better place before I re-enter the dating jungle. I KNOW that there is a good match for me out there! And, when I start dating again, I want to be filled with hope, happiness, trust and have a positive mindset to have FUN with this process! And each guy that I meet will SENSE this about me and eventually, I'll attract the one guy who will risk his heart, his emotions and will invest his trust in me (as I will risk myself and invest in him!) to embark on this amazing journey that is called Life...together!

 

 

.

 

As usual....the voice of reason.

[CrystalCastles]

They can try to silence us. But they will fail.

 

Never forget that we weren't placed here for them. It is OUR lives. Once the majority of women become viable options for US, we may start to return to the marriage altar.

 

But I'm not holding my breath.

 

Oh lordy.

 

This reads like some kind of nauseatingly dramatic movie script.

 

What's amazing, is that some one guy presumes to speak for all men. I have yet to meet a man IRL who agrees with this bitter, hateful and jaded opinion.

 

I get that you have been burned by some big, bad woman. But I fail to see why you think you can paint all women with one brush, and speak for all men as if they have been burned along with you. I have tons of guy friends, all traditional men, all who are either married or hoping to marry. My boyfriend is one of those men. If he read the above he'd laugh in your face.

 

Women don't bring anything to your life? Ok nice to know. Don't you dare though, speak for all men. I know men who would find everything you said on this thread to be utterly ridiculous, and a poor reflection on their thoughts on marriage.

[sweetjasmine]

If it ends up that the relationship doesn't work out - for whatever reason - all we'd each have to do is end the relationship and walk away. We wouldn't have to deal with all of the complications, red tape and fattening up attorneys' wallets by having to go through the arduous process of divorcing each other.

 

I have zero problems with people choosing not to marry, but it's also a mistake to assume that you could just easily walk away from a relationship you've been in for years with no problems. What if you buy a house together? What if you get a pet? What if you both buy a car or furniture? What if you have children? You still have to figure out how to divide assets, and since you're not married, some of it could very well become a free-for-all or just as bad a fight as any divorce. The laws exist to resolve the issues that crop up when people combine their lives and then separate. They don't magically cause these complications, which can exist regardless of the legal status of your relationship.

[Woggle]

Women and especially one women bring a lot to this life but I wish they would understand that men are not making up this stuff. We know too many survivors of the family court system to know that some men's fears have real merit. I was lucky my ex was caught blatantly lying in court and tried to shoot me because I would probably be paying her alimony. It gets very frustrating to have your legitimate fears dismissed like that.

[toolforgrowth]

What's amazing, is that some one guy presumes to speak for all men.

 

I've never presumed to speak for all men. I only speak for me, and for men who think like me.

 

8 Reasons Straight Men Don't Want To Get Married*|*Helen Smith

 

"According to Pew Research Center, the share of women ages eighteen to thirty-four that say having a successful marriage is one of the most important things in their lives rose nine percentage points since 1997--from 28 percent to 37%. For men, the opposite occurred. The share voicing this opinion dropped, from 35 percent to 29 percent."

 

I speak for the 71% who think as I do. But do I speak for the other 29%? Obviously not.

 

I have yet to meet a man IRL who agrees with this bitter, hateful and jaded opinion.

I highly doubt they're going to advertise it. Have you actually tried asking them?

 

I get that you have been burned by some big, bad woman. But I fail to see why you think you can paint all women with one brush, and speak for all men as if they have been burned along with you.

I don't paint all women with this brush. If you had read the entire thread, you would have seen a comment I posted a few pages back where I said that there are actually quite a few good women out there. Case in point: my GF. I clearly found one.

 

I have tons of guy friends, all traditional men, all who are either married or hoping to marry. My boyfriend is one of those men. If he read the above he'd laugh in your face.

I'm not a traditional man (in case that wasn't obvious). And I don't give a rat's a$$ what your boyfriend would think. It's his money he's putting on the line by choosing to get married, not mine. I have no stake in the matter whatsoever.

 

Women don't bring anything to your life? Ok nice to know. Don't you dare though, speak for all men. I know men who would find everything you said on this thread to be utterly ridiculous, and a poor reflection on their thoughts on marriage.

As I said, I don't speak for all men. I'm only speaking for the 71% who think like me. Edited April 17, 2015 by toolforgrowth

[toolforgrowth]

What if you buy a house together?

 

I won't finance so much as a pencil with another human being.

 

What if you get a pet?

The only animal I like is one I can eat.

 

What if you both buy a car or furniture?

Again, I won't finance so much as a pencil with another human being. Regarding furniture, what I buy is mine, what she buys is hers. My GF and I have already discussed this at length and easily agreed to this.

 

What if you have children?

 

I took control of my reproductive rights and got a vasectomy. It was literally the best decision I've ever made in my entire life, for multiple reasons.

 

You still have to figure out how to divide assets, and since you're not married, some of it could very well become a free-for-all or just as bad a fight as any divorce. The laws exist to resolve the issues that crop up when people combine their lives and then separate. They don't magically cause these complications, which can exist regardless of the legal status of your relationship.

That's provided that there are indeed any "shared" assets, which in my case, there never will be. At least, not for the next 20-30 years or so. At that point, if my GF and I are still together, I may be persuaded to buy a home together, although I already own my house now so that's not exactly a high priority for me.

[CrystalCastles]

I highly doubt they're going to advertise it. Have you actually tried asking them?

 

Fox News and Huffington Post. Great sources ()

 

Yes, I have asked them. A few of them are married and have been for many years. The ones who aren't are in LTRs, planning to get married once they graduate and get jobs.

 

I don't paint all women with this brush. If you had read the entire thread, you would have seen a comment I posted a few pages back where I said that there are actually quite a few good women out there. Case in point: my GF. I clearly found one.

 

Sure you do. You have made it abundantly clear that women are not worth marrying until they prove themselves worthy. That is a disgusting and bitter opinion. Who are you anyway, that I would have to bend over backwards to "prove" my worth? Its the same thing as someone having lied to you in the past, and you accuse everyone on the planet of being a liar.

 

I'm not a traditional man (in case that wasn't obvious). And I don't give a rat's a$$ what your boyfriend would think. It's his money he's putting on the line by choosing to get married, not mine. I have no stake in the matter whatsoever.

 

Great, because he doesn't give a rat's a$$ about you, your opinion, and your existence. Although I'm sure he'd be very annoyed that someone like you presumes to open their mouth and speak for someone like my bf. I don't care whether you are traditional or not, that means absolutely nothing to me.

 

He's not "putting money on the line". I have no idea who you think you are to speak about my boyfriend or his money in that vile manner.

 

As I said, I don't speak for all men. I'm only speaking for the 71% who think like me.

 

LMAO. Come back when you've found credible sources.

[CrystalCastles]

I won't finance so much as a pencil with another human being.

 

Whoooo caaaaares!

 

Not sure why you're breaking a sweat trying to convince us lol. The only thing you have convinced me is how absolutely HILARIOUS the thinking process of vitriolic, unattractively bitter and angry men like you, is.

[sweetjasmine]

That's provided that there are indeed any "shared" assets, which in my case, there never will be.

 

Then it's very simple and clear cut for you, and should your relationship end, you could split and go your separate ways without much of a headache. But I was asking those questions in general, since a lot of people who would argue what Zombie's arguing are much younger than you are and are planning on doing things like buying a house or going halfsies on a car or having children. The complications arise not just from marriage but mostly from having joint assets, and a lot of people don't think about it that way until 10 years into a relationship, they break up and still have to deal with all of this.

[toolforgrowth]

Fox News and Huffington Post. Great sources ()

 

The research was done by the Pew Center. They're non-partisan, and I have a great deal of respect for them. Not only that, both a left-wing and right-wing news source posted the same results. I'd call that a pretty good endorsement of the stats and results.

 

I also noticed that you didn't comment about the study mechanics or how the Pew Center actually conducted the study. You simply discredited it based on who reported it.

 

Come on. If you're going to actually discredit the Pew Center's findings, you're gonna have to do better than that. Look at the study, look at how it was done, and see if you can find any holes in it.

 

Yes, I have asked them. A few of them are married and have been for many years. The ones who aren't are in LTRs, planning to get married once they graduate and get jobs.

 

Okay, fair enough. The men you know fall into the 29% category. That seems obvious.

 

Again, it's their lives. They can do whatever they want. It is, after all, a free country.

 

Sure you do. You have made it abundantly clear that women are not worth marrying until they prove themselves worthy.

 

Isn't it that way with everyone? Are you seriously going to tell me that your boyfriend, whom you yourself said that you want to marry, hasn't proven he's worthy of your hand in marriage? Or are you marrying him simply on a gut feeling?

 

Or do only men have to prove themselves, whereas women don't?

 

I'm highly interested in how you answer this question.

 

That is a disgusting and bitter opinion. Who are you anyway, that I would have to bend over backwards to "prove" my worth? Its the same thing as someone having lied to you in the past, and you accuse everyone on the planet of being a liar.

 

Absolutely you'd have to prove your worth. I'm not going to marry just anyone. They must prove to me that they are worthy of my hand in marriage, that they are trustworthy, that they are responsible, that they will forsake me over all others.

 

Words mean nothing. They're empty air. It's actions that are important.

 

Great, because he doesn't give a rat's a$$ about you, your opinion, and your existence. Although I'm sure he'd be very annoyed that someone like you presumes to open their mouth and speak for someone like my bf. I don't care whether you are traditional or not, that means absolutely nothing to me.

 

Then why even bring up your bf in the first place? If his existence to me is moot, and my existence to him is moot, then what purpose did it serve to bring him up in the first place?

 

And as I said, I never presumed to speak for him. I have never once claimed that I speak for men who do wish to get married, and in fact, I've been claiming all this time that I only speak for men who do not wish to get married. Your bf clearly does. Therefore, I don't speak for him.

 

Is English not your native language? I'm not sure I can be any clearer than that.

 

He's not "putting money on the line". I have no idea who you think you are to speak about my boyfriend or his money in that vile manner.

 

I'll grant you this. I made a comment about a person I don't even know in the heat of the moment. I apologize for that.

 

LMAO. Come back when you've found credible sources.

 

The Pew Center made the claim, and they backed it up with their statistics and findings. What about them do you not find credible?

[toolforgrowth]

Whoooo caaaaares!

 

Not sure why you're breaking a sweat trying to convince us lol. The only thing you have convinced me is how absolutely HILARIOUS the thinking process of vitriolic, unattractively bitter and angry men like you, is.

 

Because people keep asking me. If people ask me why I don't want to get married, I tell them. And I'm hardly sweating. In fact, I find your reaction to this entirely amusing.

 

EDIT: And, most importantly, if you don't care, why are you even in this thread? Why are you even responding to me? Why aren't you simply saying, "That guy's a jerk", and going on about your day?

Edited April 17, 2015 by toolforgrowth

[CrystalCastles]

Because people keep asking me. If people ask me why I don't want to get married, I tell them. And I'm hardly sweating. In fact, I find your reaction to this entirely amusing.

 

I said that, so restating my post isn't very original, hate to break it to ya.

 

EDIT: And, most importantly, if you don't care, why are you even in this thread? Why are you even responding to me? Why aren't you simply saying, "That guy's a jerk", and going on about your day?

 

You're right. I do have better things to do than read your vitriolic rants (which to be frank I don't buy because insulting me basically discredits your entire post), so tell that to somebody who cares. What's funny, is that you do care, since you spent 33 pages spouting angry rants to people who aren't interested in being convinced of your viewpoint.

 

Carry on!

[toolforgrowth]

I said that, so restating my post isn't very original, hate to break it to ya.

 

You said that? I didn't even catch that part.

 

You're right. I do have better things to do than read your vitriolic rants (which to be frank I don't buy because insulting me basically discredits your entire post), so tell that to somebody who cares. What's funny, is that you do care, since you spent 33 pages spouting angry rants to people who aren't interested in being convinced of your viewpoint.

 

Carry on!

 

Finally!

[serial muse]

I've never presumed to speak for all men. I only speak for me, and for men who think like me.

 

8 Reasons Straight Men Don't Want To Get Married*|*Helen Smith

 

"According to Pew Research Center, the share of women ages eighteen to thirty-four that say having a successful marriage is one of the most important things in their lives rose nine percentage points since 1997--from 28 percent to 37%. For men, the opposite occurred. The share voicing this opinion dropped, from 35 percent to 29 percent."

 

Your point about marriage and financial risk evaporates, though, if you read the actual data and not an editorial about it.

 

A Gender Reversal On Career Aspirations | Pew Research Center?s Social & Demographic Trends Project

 

Interesting point: guess what else has increased among 18-34 year old women - and decreased among same-aged men? The importance of success in a high paying career.

 

Context. It matters.

 

I also found it interesting that a successful marriage has increased in importance among older men. So I don't think you speak for 71%. And parenthood is a top priority for men at all ages (as well as women).

[toolforgrowth]

Your point about marriage and financial risk evaporates, though, if you read the actual data and not an editorial about it.

 

A Gender Reversal On Career Aspirations | Pew Research Center?s Social & Demographic Trends Project

 

Interesting point: guess what else has increased among 18-34 year old women - and decreased among same-aged men? The importance of success in a high paying career.

 

Context. It matters.

 

I also found it interesting that a successful marriage has increased in impotance among older men. So I don't think you speak for 71%. And parenthood is a top priority for men at all ages (as well as women).

 

The 71% only applies to men aged eighteen through thirty-four, as I stated in my original post. For men ages thirty-five and above, the study does not apply. And it's quite possible there are indeed an entirely different set of statistics that apply to them.

 

However, the 18 - 34 age range are the Millenials, who will be running this country when their parents generation die out. What do you think the landscape will look like then?

 

And I've also seen that same statistic about women wanting higher-paying careers than men do nowadays. I wholeheartedly believe that study to be true.

 

The question you have to ask is, "Why don't men crave the higher paying careers anymore?"

 

Because they don't want to get married and be financially responsible for a family. Why bother trying to make as much money as you can if you're not planning on paying for a wife/kids? Why bother slaving away at a job you hate if you don't have to? Why not simply work part-time, make enough to have a decent living on your own, and spend your leisure time doing what you like doing?

 

You're absolutely right. Context does matter.

 

EDIT: Regarding parenthood, I'm not sure if that applies to men who are already fathers, or men who are currently childless yet still want to have children. Do you know if they've answered that question? I honestly have no idea.

 

Basically, men aged 18 - 34 who don't want to get married are also not seeking higher paying jobs, because they have no reason to.

Edited April 17, 2015 by toolforgrowth

[serial muse]

The 71% only applies to men aged eighteen through thirty-four, as I stated in my original post. For men ages thirty-five and above, the study does not apply. And it's quite possible there are indeed an entirely different set of statistics that apply to them.

 

However, the 18 - 34 age range are the Millenials, who will be running this country when their parents generation die out. What do you think the landscape will look like then?

 

And I've also seen that same statistic about women wanting higher-paying careers then men do nowadays. I wholeheartedly believe that study to be true.

 

The question you have to ask is, "Why don't men crave the higher paying careers anymore?"

 

Because they don't want to get married and be financially responsible for a family. Why bother trying to make as much money as you can if you're not planning on paying for a wife/kids? Why bother slaving away at a job you hate if you don't have to? Why not simply work part-time, make enough to have a decent living on your own, and spend your leisure time doing what you like doing?

 

You're absolutely right. Context does matter.

 

EDIT: Regarding parenthood, I'm not sure if that applies to men who are already fathers, or men who are currently childless yet still want to have children. Do you know if they've answered that question? I honestly have no idea.

 

See my point about editorials. You started with data, albeit incomplete and out of context data, but this post is distinctly hand-wavy. A) you're no millennial, so still not holdin' it up for the 71%. B) you really can't presume to know why younger men are less invested in high-paying careers. That's not science, its soapboxing, and it's wholly unconvincing.

Edited April 17, 2015 by serial muse

[toolforgrowth]

See my point about editorials. You started with data, albeit incomplete and out of context data, but this post is distinctly hand-wavy. A) you're no millennial, so still not holdin' it up for the 71%. B) you really can't presume to know why younger men are less invested in high-paying careers. That's not science, its soapboxing, and it's wholly unconvincing.

 

The study was done in 2012, when I was 32, and it goes through men aged thirty-four. I am technically right on the edge between Gen X and the millenials, although I identify with the millenials far more than the Gen X'ers.

 

What I find interesting is that you said the data I posted was incomplete and out of context, and yet you used the very same source (Pew Center) to validate your point of view. What I find amusing is that the study I posted is "incomplete and out of context" but yours somehow isn't, when they were both done by the same think tank.

 

You're absolutely right, I can't say for certain why younger men are less invested in high-paying careers. No study has been done on that, and believe me I've looked.

 

I can make a guess, though. I fully admit my guess could be wrong. But I also don't see why men would have an incentive to work super hard to make as much money as possible if they had no reason to.

 

https://www.bcgperspectives.com/content/articles/marketing_center_consumer_customer_insight_how_millennials_changing_marketing_forever/?chapter=3

 

"These generations are driving the sharing economy. Our population continues to urbanize and live a less traditional lifestyle. Older millennials are getting married less and are making major purchases like houses and cars at lower rates than older generations."

 

If you're getting married less and are not making major purchases nearly as often, you don't need a higher income.

 

https://www.bcgperspectives.com/content/articles/marketing_center_consumer_customer_insight_how_millennials_changing_marketing_forever/?chapter=3

 

"Around twice as many Millennials as boomers said that they check prices, look up product information, or search for coupons or promotions on their mobile devices while they are in a store. Forty-three percent of Millennials—compared with 25 percent of boomers—reported that they search for information online while in stores."

 

If you're making less money, you're going to want to find the best deal you can.

 

And most importantly:

 

11 Facts about the Millennial Generation | Brookings Institution

 

"64% of Millennials would rather make $40,000/year at a job they love than $100,000/year at a job they think is boring."

 

We have established that they are marrying less and making fewer major purchases, that they bargain shop, and that they would rather make less money at a job they love than more money at a job they hate.

 

The conclusion I draw from this is that millenial men would rather not marry, leave cheaper, and make less money doing something they enjoy. Which is essentially what I said.

[Els]

Dafuq happened to this thread?

 

Seriously, if some of you 'aren't going to share so much as a pencil' with your partner, and actually enjoy splitting your dinner bill down to $20.55 per person and your groceries down to $102.57 each week, and each want to have your own sofa that you and only you can sit on in your living room so there will be zero problems when you split... more power to you! Go for it! Why the need to rage against an entire gender and insult and belittle couples who choose differently? If you are truly secure and happy in what you do, it shows.

 

And really, it ain't showing.

[contact1]

Dafuq happened to this thread?

 

Seriously, if some of you 'aren't going to share so much as a pencil' with your partner, and actually enjoy splitting your dinner bill down to $20.55 per person and your groceries down to $102.57 each week, and each want to have your own sofa that you and only you can sit on in your living room so there will be zero problems when you split... more power to you! Go for it! Why the need to rage against an entire gender and insult and belittle couples who choose differently? If you are truly secure and happy in what you do, it shows.

 

And really, it ain't showing.

 

It turned to a battle of percentages apparently

 

I could never be in a relationship that had to cut down every expensive like that, I do that with friends. I much more prefer the "I'll pay this time" or her going "I'll pay for this one", has more meaning behind it.

 

Oh and congratulations on hitting 20k posts Elswyth!

[Els]

It turned to a battle of percentages apparently

 

I could never be in a relationship that had to cut down every expensive like that, I do that with friends. I much more prefer the "I'll pay this time" or her going "I'll pay for this one", has more meaning behind it.

 

Heck, I even used to share my pencils with friends... without telling them that they owe me $0.02 for the bit of pencil lead that they used! But whatever floats the other folks' boats...

 

Oh and congratulations on hitting 20k posts Elswyth!

 

Ooh, thanks. I had no idea!