Women don't play by the rules

[toolforgrowth]

OMG, no pity second date. He can't even buy you a cup of coffee during the stage of dating when he should be on his best behavior? It's not getting any better than that...

 

I heartily agree with this. Just simply state the facts. "You're not what I'm looking for in a partner." Cool. No harm no foul, and good luck to you and your future endeavors.

 

A "pity date" is totally and completely passive agressive.

[jen1447]

OMG, no pity second date. He can't even buy you a cup of coffee during the stage of dating when he should be on his best behavior? It's not getting any better than that...

 

Yeah true. But I'd probably still ease my conscience by buying him a gift card from the coffee shop so he could at least use it for the next girl. I'm kind of a nurturer that way.

[GravityMan]

I think the thing for me is that I just flat don't think that much. I meet someone for coffee, we are in line, I say "I can get mine" casually. If he says, "No, I' got it," I say thanks and go on. If a man asks me to dinner and the waitress says, "Are these together?" if I haven't already offered to split, I will address it then, but most of the time a man will say "together." In which case I tell him thank you and express appreciation, or maybe say "You don't have to."

 

But honestly, while I am doing this, I am not thinking about math or accounting or keeping the scoreboard even. I'm just trying to be thoughtful. When he pays, opens a door, etc. I just assume HE is being thoughtful. I do not weigh secret motives based on the amount of the meal or the size of the tip. I don't wonder if he figures I'm a gold digger because I let him buy my salad or chicken or whatever.

 

I just try to fix up nice, enjoy his company, and if we click I hope he asks again.

 

Maybe I'm just simple-minded? Maybe I should be looking for selfish conspiracies under all the napkins?

 

No, I think you're exactly right. And I think your mindset about this whole thing is good, and is the norm among most people IRL that enjoy being around others and don't think too hard.

 

I've always felt that the real issue and likely turn-off is with people who unnecessarily make too big of a deal out of money or "who pays" or dating in general. It just severely detracts from the whole fun-factor of being on the date. In other words it's a buzzkill. I feel that anyone who gets too caught up in "I'm supposed to pay, because I'm a man" (or tons of other similar examples for both men and women) does not have a good attitude that's conducive to dating or a happy relationship.

 

I've gone on dates where I've paid, where she's paid and where I paid for one thing (e.g. dinner) and she paid for another (e.g. drinks, tickets to a show, etc.). I never asked the woman to pay for anything, nor vice versa. Either I or she offered, often with a simple "I got it" statement, and we went from there. AFAIK it was rarely an issue - I'm still on good terms with some of those women to this day. When I paid or at least offered to pay, it's simply because I wanted to - especially if I enjoyed her company and wanted to make a nice thoughtful gesture of some sort. Same goes for little gifts, or cooking something, or whatever. It makes me feel good when she appreciates it.

 

This also has little bearing on whether there's another date or not. Both of us can enjoy the date and each other's company with awesome laughs and stuff...and yet still one or both of us knows deep down that we aren't quite right for each other (perhaps due to lack of a real spark). The date itself is still a "success", and the lack of another date doesn't necessarily mean that either person "failed" or did something wrong. I think terms like "success", "failure", "rules" and even "rejection" are too prevalent in dating...it's just not healthy to mentally dwell too much on that kind of stuff.

 

Take romance out of the equation...and this really isn't much different than a good friend (male or female) treating you to lunch or buying you a drink or something one day out of the blue. He or she just does it spontaneously simply because he cares and isn't an a-hole...there's no agenda. When that happens to me, I'm flattered without making a big deal out of it, I thank them, and I often try to do something nice for them in return - either right away or in the near future.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I understand what you're saying. But...even though $20 bucks doesn't sound like a lot of money for you to spend on ONE date, think about it: If this same guys has 3 or 4 dates with 3 or 4 different women per week (even just 3 different women), that's $60 to $80 total for the week! Imagine if this same guy wanted to date 2 or 3 different women 3 weeks out of every month and pay their way so as not to "turn off" each of those women by not paying! I'm just saying...that's about $20 bucks a pop for each date that he wants to pay for to "impress" her.

Well sorry but I don't really feel bad for that guy, if he wants to impress 3 or 4 different women each week!! Sheesh, let him pay!

[CrystalCastles]

toolforgrowth and calvincline,

 

why does it matter to either one of you what clia prefers? Clia is obviously a traditional woman with traditional values, and there are traditional men out there who have no problems paying for her coffee or food as a gentlemanly gesture.

 

There are other women who are willing to go halfsies. Giving clia flak because of her preferences is annoying and makes no sense. Just date the halfsies women and clia will date the old-fashioned men. Why the need to throw around words like "entitlement" when nothing clia wrote in her posts sounds entitled?

 

Paying for a woman is about the gesture, rather than the money. I'm sure most financially stable dudes can afford to pay for a woman's 2$ coffee. If even 2$ is waaaaaay too much to spend on a first date, then take a woman out for a walk along the beach or in a park or something. Why people's preferences necessitates 15 pages of arguing is beyond me.

[Rejected Rosebud]

There's NO way (on heaven, earth or in hell) that I would allow any guy to pay my way entirely on a date!

.

You know regardless of what some of the guys on this thread are saying, there are plenty of guys would be horrified if you would not "allow" them to pay for your date, but I guess you would not be compatible with any of them! My boyfriend for example!

[clia]

You know regardless of what some of the guys on this thread are saying, there are plenty of guys would be horrified if you would not "allow" them to pay for your date, but I guess you would not be compatible with any of them! My boyfriend for example!

 

My husband also.

 

He paid for our first and second dates, which were both drinks and dinner. He would've paid for our third, except that we were talking and I asked when his birthday was and he confessed it was the next day! I was travelling out of town for work and he had plans with his friends to celebrate, and obviously our relationship was really new, but I saw promise, so I said "I'll buy you birthday dinner!" So, I paid. That was his birthday gift. He was actually kind of embarrassed that I bought his dinner that early on in our relationship. He expected to pay because he was courting me. He's a good man. I'm super lucky to have him.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I know this sounds harsh but men owe women nothing. We always hear that women owe men nothing and the same can apply the other way around.

Who says men owe women anything? I'm reading on this thread that women owe men something, if he buys her coffee, but where is the part about men owing women anything???

[Shining One]

This makes no sense to me how something like this can even happen.

 

There are so many ways to make it so things like that don't happen...

 

How many drinks is she having?? Why are women getting what surely must be obliterated drunk at that kind of cost? Why is the man letting his money go out the window like that?

What can I possibly say to a woman in this situation that won't be a turn off?

If you totalled up the entire dollar amount that every man I've dated has spent on me, and added them all together, it would not equal $100. And yet some women are drinking that kind of amount in one go??? And somehow THOUSANDS of dollars are consistently being spent.... and woman after woman, that adds up to tens of thousands of dollars. Being drank away.

 

For what?

You know you're an anomaly in this respect. To answer your question: Usually, for nothing.

I can't imagine it's very fun to spend large amount of money on drinks for women, just for them to not be interested in you. I can't see any fun in that at all.

Now you understand my frustration and why I prefer to confirm interest before significant spending.

I guess I just am really a strong believer that men ought to exercise caution when it comes to spending on women. It's a good way to get used. And I'm not a fan of watching people get used. =/

You have a conscience. I'm afraid that a lot of people out there don't.

I don't like the idea of someone only choosing to pay, if they're getting something more out of the interaction (like sex).

I don't like the idea of someone consuming my money when she has no interest in me. Be up front and honest about it. Let me decide if I want to spend the money. Don't call it a date when you're just hanging out with a friend who pays for you.

OMG, no pity second date. He can't even buy you a cup of coffee during the stage of dating when he should be on his best behavior? It's not getting any better than that...

I'm going to have to disagree here. Why do the early dates have to be the best? I took my girlfriend to a relatively inexpensive first date and she paid for our second date. It's been almost a year now and this past Sunday, I took her out for a really nice, expensive evening. She had a blast. Thus, things can get better.

Well sorry but I don't really feel bad for that guy, if he wants to impress 3 or 4 different women each week!! Sheesh, let him pay!

Have you considered the possibility that he just wants to impress one woman and that by dating three or four women, he increases his chances of finding one who is impressed? What about the woman who dates three or four guys each week? What is her cost?

 

 

One last thing. I don't think anyone is complaining about having to pay for a $2 cup of coffee. If all of my failed dates had been $2 cups of coffee, you would not hear a complaint from me. Has anyone in this thread had a relationship start with nothing but free / low cost dates?

[ltjg45]

Yes. I will.

 

You are perfectly within your rights to never want to go out with me again. You are perfectly within your rights to reject my offer if you know I won't pay for you.

 

But I won't compromise my boundaries for your sake. Simply will not happen.

 

Huh?

 

I don't get it.

 

If you like a woman enough to ask her out on a date, you are aware that you can set how the date goes, and you know how much (or how little) you are willing to spend, why would you suggest to go to a place that you have no intentions of paying fully for?

 

Do you tell the women upfront about this when you do ask them out so they know how this is handled? I hope so otherwise this is some shady BS.

 

And if you do ask them out and you aren't paying fully for the date, how are you going to impress them enough to get them to continue dating you?

 

This makes absolutely no sense at all.

[CrystalCastles]

Has anyone in this thread had a relationship start with nothing but free / low cost dates?

 

Yeah, me. Every single first date I have ever had was a coffee date. I have already mentioned that in previous posts.

 

Kind of odd that guys take women to expensive restaurants, wine and dine them and then whine about how much they paid. Nobody put a gun to your head.

[Shining One]

Yeah, me. Every single first date I have ever had was a coffee date. I have already mentioned that in previous posts.

When I say start, I meant all cheap dates until relationship status. I wasn't referring to only first dates. I've personally not had many positive experiences when suggesting low cost dates, so I'm wary of choosing them in the future.

[Buddhist]

Might be something biological, it seems like when women go for their purse, it sends a signal to their vagina that tells it to dry up.

 

Sure it's biology if you mean a biology that primarily seems to afflict American women. Seems there's an extra chromosome over there or something.

[xxoo]

Huh?

 

I don't get it.

 

If you like a woman enough to ask her out on a date, you are aware that you can set how the date goes, and you know how much (or how little) you are willing to spend, why would you suggest to go to a place that you have no intentions of paying fully for?

 

Do you tell the women upfront about this when you do ask them out so they know how this is handled? I hope so otherwise this is some shady BS.

 

This is a good point. Guys, if you ask a woman on a date and you choose the venue, you don't actually know if she can afford it! This could get awkward fast

[SearchingForMyself]

In

This is a good point. Guys, if you ask a woman on a date and you choose the venue, you don't actually know if she can afford it! This could get awkward fast

 

I always go cheap on dates. No shame.

 

I stick to parks, bowling, arcades, stuff we can do together...you rich people need to loosen up a little.

 

What kinda women are you dating that you are pouring so much into a first date?!!!! Yeesh.

[SearchingForMyself]

I don't date super traditional womwn. I tend to end up dating gamers, anime nerds, oddballs, and bisexuals.

[autumnnight]

Maybe true but those are qualities that don't mean much in today's dating world.

 

Oh yes they do.

 

I agree with your statement, but what can we do? Most women won't budge, they'll just date someone else.

 

I don't know what planet y'all live on, and I'm about to decide you see what you want to see to fit your victim paradigm.

 

I have lots of women friends. None of them feel this way. The ones who are married are mostly married to men like Anela's father, and the ones who are single want a man like him. No one compares gift receipts, and when they bubble over about a great evening, they don't talk bout the price, they talk about the company, his character.

 

You get shallow, money-hungry women because that is what you look for. They come with big boobs and a tight butt, and that is your top priority.

 

You want a shallow, gold digging model, you get what you pay for.

[thefooloftheyear]

I don't date super traditional womwn. I tend to end up dating gamers, anime nerds, oddballs, and bisexuals.

 

They sound like a blast.......

 

 

TFY

[toolforgrowth]

Huh?

 

I don't get it.

 

If you like a woman enough to ask her out on a date, you are aware that you can set how the date goes, and you know how much (or how little) you are willing to spend, why would you suggest to go to a place that you have no intentions of paying fully for?

 

Do you tell the women upfront about this when you do ask them out so they know how this is handled? I hope so otherwise this is some shady BS.

 

And if you do ask them out and you aren't paying fully for the date, how are you going to impress them enough to get them to continue dating you?

 

This makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

You clearly haven't read the whole thread.

 

As I stated before, I don't have a issue paying. I've paid for 99% of all the dates I've ever been on. What I reject is the EXPECTATION that I pay simply because I'm the man. A woman is not entitled to my money by the sheer virtue of having a vagina. If I pay, it's because I CHOOSE to pay. If I choose not to pay, then that's my choice. It's MY money. I worked for it and earned it. I will spend it, or not, how I see fit.

 

Clia can believe whatever the **** she wants. It makes no difference to me. But I would never date a woman like her. Her sense of entitlement is incompatible with my values and how I live my life.

 

I believe that women need to earn their own money and pay their own way through this world, just like men do. I'm not going to hold a grown woman's hand through life. Not my responsibility. I look out for myself and my daughter...that's it. I even tell my daughter that she needs to work hard to earn what she wants in life and to not depend on a man to provide it for her.

 

Go back and read the thread in its entirety.

[autumnnight]

I have to ask, why do all of you assume that all women (btw when you say most we all know you really mean all) "expect" to be paid for or feel "entitled" to you spending money. Do you all have some secret power of telepathy, or maybe, just maybe, do you need to relieve your poor tired shoulders of the massive chips?

[toolforgrowth]

Who says men owe women anything? I'm reading on this thread that women owe men something, if he buys her coffee, but where is the part about men owing women anything???

 

The expectation that men buy everything on dates is where the "owing" comes into play. I don't owe a woman a meal or drinks just because we want to get to know each other. I may choose to pay of my own volition, but I don't OWE it to her.

[clia]

Clia can believe whatever the **** she wants. It makes no difference to me. But I would never date a woman like her. Her sense of entitlement is incompatible with my values and how I live my life.

 

Where did I say I was entitled to anything? I don't force a guy to pay for me. My point is that if a man chooses to ask me out on a date and chooses to take me to a restaurant or bar, and then chooses to go halfsies or expects me to pay for him, that's just not very impressive behavior for a first or second or third date. When you ask women out on a date do you really expect them to pay for themselves? It sure doesn't sound like it, since you allegedly pay for 99% of your dates.

 

Oh, and I wouldn't date you either.

 

I believe that women need to earn their own money and pay their own way through this world, just like men do. I'm not going to hold a grown woman's hand through life. Not my responsibility. I look out for myself and my daughter...that's it. I even tell my daughter that she needs to work hard to earn what she wants in life and to not depend on a man to provide it for her.

 

Go back and read the thread in its entirety.

 

Maybe you should reread what I wrote. I earn plenty of my own money and don't need anyone to hold my hand through life. It's laughable to think that expecting a man to be a gentleman and to treat a woman when he asks her out on a date is some ridiculous standard.

[thefooloftheyear]

Some of you guys don't get how to work this.......If you want to be cheap, don't show them that side, until you have sex with them, or they are hooked on you....then you can get stingy with them.:laugh:

 

 

OK...Just kidding......

 

 

I don't understand the whole concept of this...No woman of any quality is going to like a guy that splits a bill or says at the end of the date..."well, you had two drinks and a salad...I had a burger and a coke....SO you need to give me 24.00 and Ill pay the rest"....Its lame as hell...

 

I mean, whats so hard?

 

Even women who like the chivalrous type of guy, won't go on to abuse that...Maybe some do, but that stuff always seems to balance out...

 

There are a lot of guys that think if they start dating a woman, and they arent sure if it will materialize into a relationship(or at least sex), then no way in hell are they going to pay for the whole deal...That's crazy.....

 

Show them what type of man you are....Show them that you know how to treat a woman with respect and dignity,,,If it doesn't work out, who cares? So it cost you a few dollars...At least you don't make yourself look like a cheap tightwad..

 

TFY

[toolforgrowth]

I have to ask, why do all of you assume that all women (btw when you say most we all know you really mean all) "expect" to be paid for or feel "entitled" to you spending money. Do you all have some secret power of telepathy, or maybe, just maybe, do you need to relieve your poor tired shoulders of the massive chips?

 

I certainly don't mean "all". My GF has no expectation that I buy her anything at all. She even told me that it weirds her out when I do!

 

And look at blackzombiegirl. She has no expectation that men pay her way.

 

So when we say "some" or "most", we really mean "some" or "most".

 

You can try and shame us into your way of thinking, but it's not going to work. I don't care at all what faceless people on LS think of me. I don't live to gain your approval, or the approval of any woman. So what if there are women who say "Tool, I'd never date you"? Who cares? My GF told me this yesterday: "You are too sweet and wonderful to be true!" Why? Because I'm shelling out $300 on a weekend getaway for us to celebrate her birthday. She doesn't expect it. She didn't ask for it. But I'm doing it gladly, because I LOVE her.

 

To pay out of love and respect, I totally get that. To pay simply because you have a vagina, that's utterly ridiculous.

[Revolver]

Maybe true but those are qualities that don't mean much in today's dating world.

 

He was a great coach in his time but You wouldn't ask Vince Lombardi how to help you strategize/prepare for a football game in 2015 lol

 

Older men tend to give horrible outdated advice to younger males