And here I am....

[hawkeye_pierce]

Well, I was really hoping I'd never find myself here. I just knew that if we could give counseling a chance, things would work out. I'm sitting here sobbing because I know now for sure that I only have limited time left where I get to see my kids every day.

 

Honestly, I knew this was coming. She just didn't want it to work anymore and wasn't willing to put forth any effort. I know I'm not a failure, but I sure as hell feel like one right now.

[Majormisstep]

So sorry you are going through this Hawkeye. To me that was the worst part about splitting up...seeing my youngest every second week. Still hurts every time I hug him goodbye at the door.

 

Unfortunately I don't have words of wisdom for you now. Just know that it isn't the end of the world and if anything good came from it, the time that I do spend with my kids is far more precious and appreciated than ever before. That is a good thing.

 

We can't control what our significant other wants or does. You're not a failure - far from it ok? There are still some challenging days ahead but be strong for your children. They need you now.

[Mr. Lucky]

If I remember your previous thread, you've recently made a number of positive changes in your life. Be a great Dad, keep working on you and continue to move ahead. All you can do until things settle down and a new normal emerges. Stay strong...

 

Mr. Lucky

[ArtIsMyThing]

Hey Hawkeye - hurts like a bugger - all i can say is hugs. Hang in there

[hawkeye_pierce]

OK so it's been a couple days. I'll give some details now that I can think clearly . She wanted to "talk" but kept talking in circles about all the issues we've been "talking" about for the last couple months. I shut down. I told her that we've already talked about all this, even in counseling, and that I wasn't going to spend hours talking about **** that wouldn't get us anywhere. I flat out asked her "what do you want to do?", again she starts talking in circles. This goes on about 3-4 times and finally she says "I think we should split". I knew this was what she wanted but I wanted to make her say it because she has REFUSED to talk about anything that's bothering her, that's why we're where we're at. I looked her dead in the eyes and said "fine, I'm ****ing tired of trying", ripped my ring off my finger as fast as I could in front of her then walked away.

 

I told her when things started getting really bad between us (she mentioned separating a couple months ago) that if that's what she really wanted, she would basically be dead to me. She lives in this fantasy land where she thought we could still be "friends". I told her that I'm not friends with any girl I've ever dated in the past and she would be no different. We could communicate via email about our kids, phone if it's an emergency but there would be no friendly relationship with us anymore.

 

Now, it's two days later and she's tried to engage me both days. I ignore (delete) most of her emails that she sends me from work, when she calls, I don't answer. The only things I've responded to is if it's been about our kids. Even then it's the shortest answer I can come up with and as emotionless as I can make it.

 

I know only she can answer this but, why does she want to talk to me? She has basically dumped me but wants to carry on as business as usual. I don't get it and am completely dumbfounded.

 

I don't want to divorce but now that I've moved all my belongings out of her bedroom, I have no motivation to be nice, much less start friendly conversation with her which, it appears, is what she wants. I would be willing to work on rebuilding our relationship but the one major thing that would HAVE to be done, minimum 3 months of IC for her weekly to figure out why she wanted to throw everything away, I just know she wouldn't do it. She's in IC right now but has found an excuse to go less frequently (money, which isn't a problem).

 

Tomorrow should be interesting. I told her the night she told me she wanted to split that I didn't want to be around her anymore. I told her that we need to take turns each day with who gets to watch tv in the living room. She was down there today, so I get to tomorrow. What's funny though is that I would put money on the fact that she will try and watch one of "our" shows with me tomorrow night (used to be weekly date night and we'd eat nachos while watching it). I have no problems, just like last night, telling her to GTFO. I just wonder what the **** is going through her head.

 

Anyone have any insight or can share any similar experiences?

[Mr. Lucky]

One of the quirks of human nature is a need to see ourselves as good even when we're doing bad. When it comes to infidelity or divorce, very few spouses want to be honest about the hurt they're causing. So you get the "let's be friends" speech because "don't let the door hit you in the ass" reflects too poorly on the giver. As it seems you're doing, judge her on her actions...

 

Mr. Lucky

[hawkeye_pierce]

Yeah I'm going to have one more talk with her tonight to try and figure out how we might be able to work things out. So far as I know, there's no infidelity. I did, however, accuse her of it because she's not been wearing her rings for so long. She says that my accusation of infidelity is something she can't get past and can't forgive me for it. I told her that her not wearing her rings are what caused the insecurity on my part in the first place. It's something we've gone round and round on.

 

We are both in a place mentally (due to health issues on both sides) in a place for the first time where we could really have a good relationship. It would take work to fix things but one would think that your kids are enough of a reason to at least TRY to make it work. She, so far, hasn't even put forth any effort though

 

And I realize "staying together for the kids" is horrible if both parents are miserable. That's not what I'm implying. All I'm saying is they should be a good catalyst to really try and keep the family together.

 

Trying to understand what's going on in her head is maddening. I just cry every time I think about my boys. I love them so much. I can't imagine being apart from them.

Edited April 17, 2015 by hawkeye_pierce

[Mr. Lucky]

Yeah I'm going to have one more talk with her tonight to try and figure out how we might be able to work things out. So far as I know, there's no infidelity. I did, however, accuse her of it because she's not been wearing her rings for so long. She says that my accusation of infidelity is something she can't get past and can't forgive me for it. I told her that her not wearing her rings are what caused the insecurity on my part in the first place. It's something we've gone round and round on.

 

Are you familiar with the term "gaslighting"?

 

This is a perfect example. The real issue is, as a married woman, she has removed the symbols of her commitment to you.

 

And yet she want to make the issue your reaction to her doing so. In other words, she's not acting inappropriately, you're crazy and insecure.

 

Don't play the game, get involved or have these discussions, you'll only follow her down the rabbit hole. She's obviously going to do what she's goings to do with little regard for you, your family or your marriage.

 

I'm sorry but plan appropriately...

 

Mr. Lucky

[kenmore]

Sorry you are going through this Hawkeye.

 

One thing that strikes me reading your posts is that you seem too fed up to want to make it work as well. I get your frustration, Lord knows I felt it (and still do) too. But saying things like GTFO or infidelity accusations without any solid basis for them is not helping at all.

 

Obviously I have no idea of the dynamic of your relations, but it's never going to work out with a standoff happening. Loosening up and working together is a two way street.

 

All that said, I do relate. I feel the same way you do, it's just that I know there is no getting back together. I have no reason to try to work with her anymore so I leave her alone. I won't be friends and that was what she wanted, so she loses!

 

Best of luck to you, but if you really want things to get better, you need to start with your 'tude first.

 

Ken

[beach]

Sounds like she wants you to still see heras the nice gal.

 

Probably also to ease her guilt of not doing her part in repairing the marriage.

 

Yep, I'd bet my money on easing her guilty conscience.

 

I think you're handling it like a champ! Keep up the work - I know it's hard but no need to give in to her games.

[Yasuandio]

OP senses the end is near, in first post, sobbing.

 

Signs have been written on the wall, as Mr. Lucky noted, the symbol of marital commitment has gone missing from her ring finger (oddly enough) concurrently with wife's defensiveness and "tude."

 

HP tries to get answers, but is met with evasiveness, games, talking in circles. Then come the "reverse gaslight" monkey wrench: of course, the entire situation is HP's fault, wife just cannot get over nor forgive a direct inquiry regarding her possible infidelity. Oh, dear. Chicken or the egg?

 

Now, at present time, wife is cornered, and admits "I think we should split." Well, how enlightening. Thanks for being so forthcoming.

 

So, should she come drifting into the TV room during HP's night, I would tell her the GTFO, plus more (such as some natcho dip in orbit). After all this horsing around, then, finally, HP gets to the bottom line - he deserves a couple nights of effing solitude away from Ms. Divatude, without any interference.

 

Sorry to say this, HP, she is up to no good, just a matter of time for the nasty to come out in the wash. When the other shoe drops, keep your dignity and don't waste your breath on her.

 

Yas

Edited April 19, 2015 by Yasuandio

[beach]

When does she intend to move?

 

She wants to end it - she should move.

 

You can make her WANT to move faster by being mean to her. Lol - oh my, did I just say that?

 

Well, it's true. She will stay and use you as long as you're somewhat reasonable. Stop being reasonable and you get the house to yourself without her drama.

 

 

Really - why isn't she moving?

[whichwayisup]

Her reaction to you accusing her of cheating/having an affair was quite over the top which makes me wonder if she has met someone...

 

I suggest family counseling so you two can learn to co parent together as mom and dad - Separate and share custody. Be courteous, respectful when you two talk when it has to do with the kids etc., but anything else is none of her business.

 

And no, you two can't be buddies/friends. She asked that of you and is emailing you/calling because she doesn't want to be the bad guy and she foolishly thinks that she'll get her way (friendship) so she can rely on you still but on her terms.

[ArtIsMyThing]

She says that my accusation of infidelity is something she can't get past and can't forgive me for it.

 

She said this to you - i'm sorry hon but you got gaslighted - you need to research that real quick - but here i will give you the definition.Gaslighting or gas-lighting is a form of mental abuse in which information is twisted or spun, selectively omitted to favor the abuser, or false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception, and sanity.

 

I am sorry for your situation - just try and stay as calm as you can for yourself and for your children

[dreamingoftigers]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa

 

You guys are totally competing with each other and NO ONE IS LISTENING.

 

And now everyone else is bouncing a whole bunch of theories into the mix.

 

I talk in circles. My husband shuts down.

 

 

Guess what happens? I try to explain it 6000 different ways because he just sits there saying "it's the same thing as XYZ" even when it is effing not!!!!!

 

And guess what else my jackass husband does when I just need him to LISTEN and EMPATHIZE with me or REASSURE and COMFORT me? He will often shut down and then close off the relationship. Much like YOU did when you ripped off your rings etc.

 

You two suck as partners (I can totally relate by the way) but until you stop fighting the way that you fight, you will just go back and forth until one of you quits because neither one of you want to be mature enough to consider the other.

 

And yeah, she may have some dealbreaking stuff, but she would have stopped contacting you altogether if that was the deal. She's contacting you. She's still in play. You're being an ass and hurting for it.

 

You know what the WORST thing to do to a woman in a relationship is?

 

Stonewall (shut down) when she is trying to talk to you.

 

CLEARLY she wants some reassurance. And what exactly do you do? You close all of that down. Dumb Dumb move.

 

And she thinks you just don't care. So she probably shames/"bombards" you. I am a "bombarder." Guess what? Never works. Ever. Ever Ever.

 

Doesn't help that my husband has more issues than the UN. But still, I bombard and he shuts down and NO ONE LISTENS.

 

Look up HOW TO LISTEN. HOW TO REASSURE. HOW TO EMPATHIZE.

 

Oh screw it, just get a copy of The Third Alternative or read some Gottmann or Harville Hendrix.

 

Or just get a divorce and don't shut down on your next partner.

 

And stop making every conflict "the end of the relationship."

 

****, it gets old. And I bet you $50,000 (IOU) that you guys both do it. One is in, so the other pulls out. Or you are ABOUT to resolve something and someone pulls the "it's over / can't work it out" stunt. Grow up. Really. Both of You. You have kids. Tell your wife I said that if you have to.

 

Or another book: When Mars and Venus Collide. It's all about fighting and conflict.

 

And finish your damn counseling. Don't quit your marriage before you get the conclusion with your counselor. WTF is the point of going to counseling if YOU both don't want to listen.

 

F U C _ I have just seen and been through so much of this garbage.

 

Let my light serve as a great warning and example.

 

You are fighting like this because you don't care to listen to how she FEELS> that's what the "circles" are. She has a feeling that you aren't hearing. With guys that stonewall, feelings are like the new "F word."

 

Care about those damn feelings.

 

How I Saved My Marriage - Richard Paul Evans

 

ARG. I am frustrating reading your thread because it is clear that you both do care about each other, but have effed-up conflict patterns. It sucks raw eggs and it's hard to find good help before things go south.

 

A lot of marital counselors want to make it about some "philosophical crap."

[dreamingoftigers]

 

Now, at present time, wife is cornered, and admits "I think we should split." Well, how enlightening. Thanks for being so forthcoming.

 

When people like these two get into their wars, they pull this stunt all the time.

 

They mean it when they say it in the bottom of the trench, then when they say it, they feel like its "off their chest" and want to be close again.

 

It's torture.

 

Both OP and his wife do the "end game." And it's obvious.

 

But they are BOTH invested. All of the rage and irritation are still there. Still invested.

[Yasuandio]

When people like these two get into their wars, they pull this stunt all the time.

 

They mean it when they say it in the bottom of the trench, then when they say it, they feel like its "off their chest" and want to be close again.

 

It's torture.

 

Both OP and his wife do the "end game." And it's obvious.

 

But they are BOTH invested. All of the rage and irritation are still there. Still invested.

 

Dot,

 

Yours is an interesting and reasonable take in this situation. But the wife to have gone some time now without wearing her wedding rings with no explanation?

 

In a marriage where rings were exchanged, I would not be able to ignore my spouse simply disappearing the symbol of our commitment. That doesn't make sense. Also such does not so neatly fit the construct you drew.

 

OP has done the opposite of shut down, he is angry, and should be. He has been wondering for weeks, and he got his answer when he pressed her. Once "We need to split" is on the table," it is downhill. That is the same thing ad the D word in my book.

 

I am not going to promote false hope in this case. I think OP needs to go dark on her. Maybe she will suddenly turn up the gas, and find her rings. He has to do something different, in my opinion. Yas

[hawkeye_pierce]

Are you familiar with the term "gaslighting"?

 

Yup. I know she's been gas-lighting me for a while now. It's just that the problems we had, they were fixable. I KNOW she doesn't want to fix things because the work would be too hard.

 

The day I had my final "hail mary" talk with her, I broke down sobbing while making dinner. I hadn't told her at this point that I wanted to talk to her after the boys went to bed. She was standing there and I turned around so the kids wouldn't see me and so she wouldn't either even though she knew I was losing it. Her response was, and I quote, "I don't know what you want me to do". She has no empathy. I mean think about it. Think about the Boston Marathon bombing. People who didn't even know each other helping them in a time of need. Even if it was just something like talking someone down from anxiety while looking for EMT's. We've spent 16 years together total and she couldn't even just put her hand on my shoulder or just give me a hug?

 

Anyway, I told her I had to go upstairs because I didn't want the kids to see me like this. While I calmed myself down, I talked myself out of having the talk with her and leaving it as it was.

 

I walked downstairs and you know what happened? One of those awesome little boys came over, hugged my leg and yelled "daddy!!!! I love you daddy!". I'm tearing up just thinking about it again but when it happened all I could think was, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't try this last thing.

 

We had our talk, she agreed that she would look at it as a separation and work on us in therapy etc. Last night, she totally reneged. Said she just didn't want to be married anymore but didn't know how to tell me when we had our last talk. I've never wanted to hit someone more than I did in that instant. Don't worry, I never would, I have too much to lose. She started talking about how we'll be able to be friends and go to functions for the boys. What I told her is that, yes, we will be involved in their lives, but as far as she's concerned to me, she doesn't exist. I will be cordial in front of the kids and never say anything bad about her to them/in front of them but I told her that she's basically dead to me now. We can look at the process of splitting as a business transaction and once we're done, we're done.

 

So. It's my night in the living room. I'm sitting here with a glass of Bourbon and I can now see, for the first time in a VERY long time that things really will get better. I have two totally awesome boys that are my world and I'm seeing that the relationship I have with them is totally different from what they have with her. Mainly because of the lack of empathy on her part. I'm the one they want to sit next to at meals, I'm the one they want to say goodnight to last.

 

It's going to suck, and it's going to suck really hard, but I know that being away from her will make my relationship with my boys even better. Even if that means I don't get to see them every day.

[hawkeye_pierce]

Best of luck to you, but if you really want things to get better, you need to start with your 'tude first.

 

Ken

 

Yeah you don't know the dynamic of what's been going on and I don't feel like going into details. All I'll say is the 'tude I'm exhibiting towards her stems from her refusal to talk about issues. She just holds everything in. It's not just our relationship that's a problem for her. She's having problems at work too.

[hawkeye_pierce]

Sounds like she wants you to still see heras the nice gal.

 

Probably also to ease her guilt of not doing her part in repairing the marriage.

 

Yep, I'd bet my money on easing her guilty conscience.

 

I think you're handling it like a champ! Keep up the work - I know it's hard but no need to give in to her games.

 

 

She flat out told me that all her friends are telling her that she's making a huge mistake. Mine, on the other hand, are trying to tell me that I'll be better off. I know I will, it's just hard to think that when you know you won't be able to see your kids everyday.

[hawkeye_pierce]

When does she intend to move?

 

She wants to end it - she should move.

 

You can make her WANT to move faster by being mean to her. Lol - oh my, did I just say that?

 

Well, it's true. She will stay and use you as long as you're somewhat reasonable. Stop being reasonable and you get the house to yourself without her drama.

 

 

Really - why isn't she moving?

 

Why isn't she moving? One income (her) because we decided for me to be the stay at home dad. She had better room for advancement, better insurance and made more money. When we were discussing this, I told her we could sell the house and get something smaller that we could have afforded on my salary. She didn't want that though. So here we are, stuck because she blows all our (her) money and gets us behind on bills with no way for either of us to move out because we can't afford it.

 

The good thing is that we can sell our house and get out of debt completely. We've already discussed this and I told her that I will demand that proceeds from selling the house be used to pay off all debts FIRST. Then, whatever is left over will be split 50/50. She agreed but I doubt that will last for long.

[hawkeye_pierce]

Her reaction to you accusing her of cheating/having an affair was quite over the top which makes me wonder if she has met someone...

 

I've thought this all along but can't find any evidence to support it.

[hawkeye_pierce]

lots of words

 

 

I get this gist of your post. Really I do. I want nothing more than to make this work. My frustrations and lashing out at her come from her absolute refusal to talk and put in any effort to save things. So tell me, how do I fix this if she doesn't want to? That's what this boils down to.

[kenmore]

I get this gist of your post. Really I do. I want nothing more than to make this work. My frustrations and lashing out at her come from her absolute refusal to talk and put in any effort to save things. So tell me, how do I fix this if she doesn't want to? That's what this boils down to.

 

If she really doesn't want to, then you can't. But, is your assessment correct? You said

"I broke down sobbing while making dinner. I hadn't told her at this point that I wanted to talk to her after the boys went to bed. She was standing there and I turned around so the kids wouldn't see me and so she wouldn't either even though she knew I was losing it. Her response was, and I quote, "I don't know what you want me to do". She has no empathy. I mean think about it. Think about the Boston Marathon bombing. People who didn't even know each other helping them in a time of need. Even if it was just something like talking someone down from anxiety while looking for EMT's. We've spent 16 years together total and she couldn't even just put her hand on my shoulder or just give me a hug?"

 

Your conclusion is that she has no empathy. That she was content to stand there and watch you be miserable, but look at what she said:

"I don't know what you want me to do".

Taken at face value, she wanted to help but did not know how. That's not a lack of empathy, it's a lack of how to take the next step. A lack of empathy would be for her to turn away and ignore you. I know from experience that when emotions run high, people freeze up. Perhaps she thought if she put her arm on your shoulder that you would push it off and tell her to GTFO. Perhaps her meek response was couched in anxiety itself.

 

Look, I don't have anything invested in you two and if you both want to burn your relationship to the ground, be my guest. I can't talk to her nor hear her side, but every time I read your posts about this, I get the same feeling, and it's the same feeling dreamingoftigers gets: there's a huge amount of "poor me"'s and "look how wronged I have been"'s, and little cooperation. There's only one end to this as it's going and if that's what you want, then keep going that way. Take the advice of those here who want to see your relationship fail. Better yet, push it to its end.

 

Someone said you should keep doing what you're doing, maybe it was you, I don't remember. If you keep doing what you're doing, what has been happening will keep happening. If you don't want that, then do something different. Listen to DOT, she has just lived this and she knows what she's talking about. Otherwise, just go on venting here but don't disguise it as looking for advice, say you're venting and vent! Best of luck to you!

 

Ken

Edited April 20, 2015 by kenmore

[Mr. Lucky]

Listen to DOT, she has just lived this and she knows what she's talking about. Otherwise, just go on venting here but don't disguise it as looking for advice, say you're venting and vent! Best of luck to you!

 

Much props to DOT, she's as caring and empathetic as any poster you'll find here. But if I recall correctly, her H has split - proof that even the most engaging spouse can't singlehandedly fix a marraige. It takes two.

 

The OP's W has refused to engage or participate in any way and has declared herself "done". Short of chloroform, what would you suggest he do? I don't think people here are pushing for him to bail on his marriage. What's being suggested is he be realistic about what going on and protect himself and his relationship with his kids. As always, YMMV...

 

Mr. Lucky