If a man cheats on his wife does he no longer love her?

[Bohonia]

If he is so candidly open about it he doesn't respect his wife nor love her enough to protect her dignity and her reputation as his wife. He doesn't care if he is caught. Men can sleep with other females and it means nothing because men can separate love and sex. However his other actions lead me to believe his love for his wife may no longer be there.

[elaine567]

That's a terrible analogy.

It'd be more comparable to say, I love my dog, but does that mean I should have no more than 1 dog?

 

So what does this say about polygamists when it's not morally wrong within their sector? Is this still kicking a dog as well?

 

You miss the point. I can say I love my dog but the fact I kick it all the time means I do not love my dog. if I truly loved my dog I wouldn't want to hurt it.

A person can say they love their wife, but the fact they are cheating on her means they don't really love her. If they loved her they wouldn't want to hurt her.

 

Polyamory/polygamy is NOT about cheating, lying and betraying anyone.

[Donate]

I have no doubt about that and a woman can love more than one man, but is it possible to truly love them and cheat on them at the same time?

 

I love my dog, but do I really love my dog if I kick it all the time?

I guess not.

 

Poor analogy.

 

Yes you can love your dog, get another and love that one too....even if both or one is jealous and wants to be the only one

[Giggle]

I agree with oldshirt. People can love each other and do ****ting things to each other. I think it's mostly something people say to make them feel better in one form or another. Well he doesn't love her, so that's how he could do it. But he really lives me so he could never do that. Cheating is breaking an agreement and it totally depends on the person and relationship how far something can go before it's considered cheating.

 

I know somebody who had an agreement with their fiancé that they could sleep with other people as long as they knew about it. But her being dom'd by another man was against the rules. Everything up to that point was ok.

 

Some of us, with the feelings of love, can't concieve of sleeping with somebody else. It doesn't feel like something we could ever do because we love the person we are with. My bf has told me I should get laid cause he's long distance. He's ok with it as long as it's just sex and he knows all about it. (We have a bizarre relationship anyways I slept with a girl, but it just weirds me out to have somebody else touching me and I really have no desire to find somebody.

 

My ex cheated on me and told me he loved me the entire time. Our relationship was broken. It didn't lack love, but it lacked a connection at that point and it lacked high chemistry. He found both with somebody else. Lots of people don't want to acknowledge that you can romantically love more than one person at a time too.

[Giggle]

You miss the point. I can say I love my dog but the fact I kick it all the time means I do not love my dog. if I truly loved my dog I wouldn't want to hurt it.

A person can say they love their wife, but the fact they are cheating on her means they don't really love her. If they loved her they wouldn't want to hurt her.

 

Polyamory/polygamy is NOT about cheating, lying and betraying anyone.

 

You can not want to hurt someone and still do something. Me not heating on my recent ex had nothing to do with loving him. I didn't even like him anymore. But I knew he was believing in me and I couldn't break that trust.

He loved me but couldn't stop himself lying and breaking our relationship. I felt completely betrayed.

[oldshirt]

I agree with some but not all of what you say. I think your views on men are a little too slanted to the poly side.

 

I agree monogamy is a social and religious construct. Its certainly not humans natural state. I don't however believe all men are hard wired for polygamy and vise versa all women monogamy. All humans both men and women want sexual variety. Its an advantage for the species to have genetic diversity. But its achieved through many means .... not just dominant males having many partners. I also don't really think all men want many wives. Personally I think humans in general are on a bit of a sliding scale between poly and monogomous. Most tend to actually be somewhere in the middle. Something I would call "serial monogomist".

 

The intense love and pair bonding with humans generally is 1-1 thing just like you normally find in many species of the animal kingdom. Couples pair up, get married and raise children. It just doesn't last forever - the "love" effect wears off. The strong intense feelings of love normally only last around 4-5 years - just long enough to raise children to an appropriate age to fend for themselves. After which many relationships fall apart and people move on to new partners. Most of the time the woman actually ends the relationship indicating they are not as monogomous as most men would like to think.

 

Allow men to acquire a harem and they will do it. They will acquire women as long as their resources are able to attract the women and they will keep acquiring as many as they want. For some it will be none, for some one or two and for some many.

 

That's why I called it their basic programming.

 

Women's basic programing is hypergamy. Which means she won't try to get as 'many' as she can get like a man, she will try to get the 'best' that she can get.

 

What that means is that she may not be interested in getting lots of men, but if one comes along that is clearly better (to her) than the one she has, she will drop the other on and go with the next.

 

That differs from men in that men would rarely dump a woman that's performing what he wants, he would just add more to the mix.

[elaine567]

I agree with some but not all of what you say. I think your views on men are a little too slanted to the poly side.

 

I agree monogamy is a social and religious construct. Its certainly not humans natural state. I don't however believe all men are hard wired for polygamy and vise versa all women monogamy. All humans both men and women want sexual variety. Its an advantage for the species to have genetic diversity. But its achieved through many means .... not just dominant males having many partners. I also don't really think all men want many wives. Personally I think humans in general are on a bit of a sliding scale between poly and monogomous. Most tend to actually be somewhere in the middle. Something I would call "serial monogomist".

 

The intense love and pair bonding with humans generally is 1-1 thing just like you normally find in many species of the animal kingdom. Couples pair up, get married and raise children. It just doesn't last forever - the "love" effect wears off. The strong intense feelings of love normally only last around 4-5 years - just long enough to raise children to an appropriate age to fend for themselves. After which many relationships fall apart and people move on to new partners. Most of the time the woman actually ends the relationship indicating they are not as monogomous as most men would like to think.

 

I agree women are not as monogamous as men would like to think, and it is why women free from the shackles of financial servitude, and the historic dire consequences of female adultery are found to be cheating more and more in recent studies.

Genetic diversity is I believe the driver for men and women to cheat and find new partners. In modern times, people are also outliving their destiny.

Dying at 30-40, meant pair up, raise the children, struggle damn hard to survive, and die young.

Now we have it easy, now we have time to look around...

I do not think however that the reason women are ending relationships is necessarily because women cheat though. I think women are ending relationships due to many factors, including male infidelity.

[preraph]

Again, cheating has nothing to do with love, nothing to do with monogamy vs nonmonogamy. Cheating is about breaking ground rules.

 

Cheating is a character issue and bad behavior, it has nothing to do with that persons 'feelings' or emotions towards the other person.

 

A man can essentially hate his wife and not give a squirt of pi$$ about her and still not violate the terms of their agreement (assuming they have an exclusivity agreement).

 

Another man may love his wife very much and care for her very much but just not be able to keep his pants on with other women. It's about his character and his willingness and ability to follow their own ground rules.

 

The emotion of love cannot protect against poor character and bad behavior.

 

If you love someone, the very last thing you want to do is hurt them. That's love. If you can't love to that level, you have a basic incapacity for real meaningful love and devotion. Love isn't a word you say. It's really feeling for that person to the point that hurting them hurts you just as much or more.

[Giggle]

Some people don't love you the way you want to be loved. That however does not invalidate the love they have for you. That doesn't mean it's not real.

 

It may have to be an agree to disagree I don't see the advantage though in thinking that somebody didn't really love you if they could do something bad to you. It just didn't fall into your set notion of how it should be and things are rarely so black and white.

[Kbomb]

I agree with most of these replies.

 

I guess ''love'' means different things to people and depending on how they were raised / culture ect.

 

I think a man can still ''love'' his wife ( and the same goes for a woman ) and cheat on her/him at the same time. But I think in order for this to be happening there has to be a problem in the relationship. And the person that is doing the cheating if its their first time must be very confused.

 

I also believe some men marry a woman with the complete intention of being a serial cheater through out the marriage because they seen this behavior growing up or all their friends are doing it making it seem ''normal'' and ''harmless'' and they want to be one of the boys.

 

I think it is a very confusing subject, because I also agree that if you ''love'' someone you do not want to hurt them.

 

I had quite a lot of opportunities to cheat with much more successful and better looking men than my partner and I must say I almost did a few times. But in the end the thought of my partners face and knowing that he loved me so very much was not worth losing him over an affair.... .. Maybe that is just a woman's way of thinking though?

 

Do some men also think that way? Or Do you think almost any man can be tempted??? And take the bait?

[Quiet Storm]

I think it's possible to love people and behave in unloving ways. Take an addict, for example. They'll rob their mom and steal grandpa's pain meds. Not because they hate their mom or grandpa, but because they have serious issues and are in a very selfish state of mind.

 

An affair often begins as an "escape", like an addiction. "A little indulgence won't hurt" is a common early thought for both affairs and addictions. People in both scenarios often have thoughts of justification or rationalization to make it OK, in their minds. During an affair or an addiction, most people involved would say and genuinely believe "Yes, I still love my wife." or "I love my mom" while simultaneously cheating or pawning moms necklace. Then later, when they have gotten help, or stopped the affair, they genuinely feel shame and can't believe they did that to someone they love.

 

So I think there can be love for both, but there's a dissonance there, an emotional detachment where they avoid their conscience. They push down the thoughts of "How can I do this to someone I love?" Its like those whack a mole games...as soon as the conscience pops up they smack it down again.

 

Just like addicts, cheaters lie to themselves more than anyone.

[No Limit]

In my opinion, no. Although men usually shrug it off with "sorry, I have primal urges you know". Interestingly even these men react shocked when a negative DNA test happens or they catch their wife with another guy... oh I'm sorry, my female urges were just too strong, but I love only you, don't you worry...

[Kbomb]

No Limit - That is interesting!

 

So do you think that 'some' men think that because they have this primal urge - like ''I'm a guy so its kinda my birth right, sorry I dint mean to hurt you '' think like that.

 

But if this same man were to find his wife with another man he would find that completely unacceptable? and unforgivable?

 

Like its two completely different set of standards? From a mans point of view?

[na49]

I'd say no, anyone (man or woman) who cheats on their significant other no longer "loves" them.

 

At least not in the same way. It doesn't mean that they hate their significant other, but they are obviously not committed to them anymore. I think that part of being in love with someone is being committed to them. They aren't "in love" with them anymore because if they were, they wouldn't cheat. (in my opinion)

[Ninjainpajamas]

This is just a question - Do you think a man, who has children can cheat on his wife regularly but still be in love with his wife?

 

What do the children have to do with it? He can love the children but not his wife.

 

He can also still love his wife and be with other women, but if he's just cheating on a regularly basis his overall intentions and behavior is questionable to say the least.

 

I've seen people cheat on the side on a regular basis but everyone that didn't know about it just thought they were still very good, committed parents and family people. The cheating in itself didn't seem to be contributing in a deterioration or lack within their personal lives and relationships with their families.

 

Or do you think for a man to be able to cheat on his wife this means he no longer loves her?

 

I've seen plenty of men and women cheat on their SO's, but they usually stay with their original partner in the end...so there has to be some love there.

 

If he ends up being with the OW in the end, it seems very probable that he loves the OW more than his wife. But of course, life is not that simple.

 

And what do you think if he's not hiding his cheating from everyone? If he's doing it openly but the wife does not know?

 

What are his motives? why is he cheating so openly if he does not desire getting caught? is he trying to sabotage the relationship on purpose?

 

Sounds like he's trying to send a message, or being really stupid or he doesn't mind the consequences or reputation that comes along with it.

[Justanaverageguy]

I do not think however that the reason women are ending relationships is necessarily because women cheat though. I think women are ending relationships due to many factors, including male infidelity.

 

No I agree. I think women end relationships more because of a fundamental difference between the way men and women experience "love". Woman tie love tightly to two emotions .... attraction and attachment. If one of those emotions is not present .... then she is not in love. If a woman loses "attraction" for her husband or becomes attracted to another man ..... the relationship is basically done.

 

For men love is different. They value long term attachment as "real love". They require attraction as well especially at first ..... but a man can separate attraction from love. He will often say he is "in love" with one woman but still be sexually attracted to and having an affair with another. Its basically the title of this thread.

 

It is why men and women generally cheat very differently. For a man an affair is sex on the side. He keeps it separate from his real life. He sees it as sex and not really anything more then that. Its why a man will rarely leave his wife for a mistress. He prioritizes attachment over attraction.

 

Women are different - once they become attracted to another man and enter an affair .... they will more often then not leave their husband for the affair partner. The prioritize attraction over attachment. The don't always have to cheat for this to happen either .... if they just stop being attracted to their husband they will also often end the relationship and leave to then go and find that feeling else where. A man even when he loses attraction for his wife will often stay in the relationship and just fill that sexual attraction need elsewhere. He still values his wife more then the other mistresses he sleeps with.

[Justanaverageguy]

Women's basic programing is hypergamy. Which means she won't try to get as 'many' as she can get like a man, she will try to get the 'best' that she can get.

 

What that means is that she may not be interested in getting lots of men, but if one comes along that is clearly better (to her) than the one she has, she will drop the other on and go with the next.

 

That differs from men in that men would rarely dump a woman that's performing what he wants, he would just add more to the mix.

 

See now I know that you are not really paying attention.

 

Lots and lots of guys think women will only leave a man she is with for a "better" man. They think women will try and "trade up". The reality is this actually isn't how it normally works at all. It does occasionally .... and also when a woman is single and looking for a mate - I agree this is basically how it works. She goes for what she sees as the most valuable man. Value can be different things to different women. Money, looks, power, wanted by other women maybe a good family man - whatever it is she sees as valuable.

 

But a woman who is taken and already in a relationship who cheats and starts and affair and then leaves her husband or long term partner is completely different. I've seen quite a lot of women cheating in the last 4-5 years and so I have come to see quite an interesting pattern emerge. Women who cheat do not trade "better" so much as they just trade "different". Truth be told in the majority of cheating cases I have seen where the women left her husband and ran off with another man ...... the woman has actually traded down. In many cases I've seen significantly down.

 

I've seen a woman cheat on and leave good looking high powered doctor for a guy with no job and no prospects - she came back but only after the other guy dumped her. I've seen a woman leave a very rich and successful business man who owned his own company for a 22 year old grad at her work who still lived at home with his parents. I've seen a young woman in her late 20's leave a good looking and successful business consultant for her 55 year university professor.

 

Trading up is not what women are looking for when they cheat. Women cheat when the "love" (sexual attraction) wears off and they get bored and go looking for something "different". The problem is when a women becomes attracted or involved in another guy .... even if the guy is a big step down .... she will end the old relationship to pursue it and to chase that feeling.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Justanaverageguy

[cocorico]

This is just a question - Do you think a man, who has children can cheat on his wife regularly but still be in love with his wife?

 

Or do you think for a man to be able to cheat on his wife this means he no longer loves her?

 

And what do you think if he's not hiding his cheating from everyone? If he's doing it openly but the wife does not know?

 

My H was faithful to his XW for three decades. It was only once the R was well and truly broken that he was willing to entertain other options. Were it not for the trauma the kids had suffered through a previous separation, he would have left rather than become unfaithful - but he felt he could not put them through that again, so soon.

 

In his case, yes, the love had been stamped out. He had tried to resuscitate it, but she wasn't interested. It suited her the way things were.

 

H is a very social man. His friends and family mean a great deal to him. He is s not one to hold secrets or be dishonest, so he shares things with those he loves and those who matter to him. So when he fell in love with me, it was natural to him to share his friends and family with me, and so share me with them. To him it was simply part of being authentic and minimising the dissonance. He's not the type to sustain a double life. So we were an open couple, only she did not know - but their lives were so separate, she shared nothing meaningful with him anyway.

[No Limit]

No Limit - That is interesting!

 

So do you think that 'some' men think that because they have this primal urge - like ''I'm a guy so its kinda my birth right, sorry I dint mean to hurt you '' think like that.

 

But if this same man were to find his wife with another man he would find that completely unacceptable? and unforgivable?

 

Like its two completely different set of standards? From a mans point of view?

 

It's not the man's point of view per se, it's just the cheaters' point of view. Cheaters have a lot of ego which needs to be fed regularly, and if their partner which they had believed under control were to cheat on them their pretty world would crash down and they'd have to admit that in the end, they're powerless.

[dichotomy]

As several others mentioned - it depends on your (and your spouses) definition of love. People can be swingers, have open marriages, etc, and still claim to love each other. However in these situations there is typically honesty and openness - which I believe are components of love.

 

Now when a person cheats, he/she lies, they lie in many cases because they know their spouse would NOT feel loved if they knew. But the cheater MAY still feel or think they love when cheating...but they know their spouse would not see it that way.

 

I will even take this a step further, my wife believed (and may still believe to a certain extent) that a man (a certain type of man) can cheat on his wife and still love her and even still be a good man. But has said I if I were to cheat on her, she would be heartbroken since she knows how I love. In other words its not really me cheating exactly, its for her understanding that I did not love her that would hurt her.

Edited April 21, 2015 by dichotomy

[LifeNomad]

i think it depends on what your definition of "cheating" and "love" is.

[Justanaverageguy]

It's not the man's point of view per se, it's just the cheaters' point of view. Cheaters have a lot of ego which needs to be fed regularly, and if their partner which they had believed under control were to cheat on them their pretty world would crash down and they'd have to admit that in the end, they're powerless.

 

Yep seen that happen. One of the friends I grew up out of school with was a serial cheater. He literally cheated on every single girl he dated from the end of high of school onward. This was up until the latest girl who he got serious with about 3 years back. He boasted to me that they had been together for 2 whole years and he hadn't cheated once. He saw that as some monumental achievement that he expected a pat on the back for. Then she cheated on him .... and he went to pieces. Seriously turned into a blithering mess. Eventually he actually took her back and they are still together now though I think that was only due to a child being involved.

 

Funny how the wheel turns.

[kendahke]

No. I don't think that he can be "in love" with his wife and cheat on her. He may have love for her, like he loves his mom or his children or his new car, but if he's doing something that he knows is going to bring her immense pain, there is no way that he can be "in love" with her and do that.

[Kbomb]

No Limit- I totally agree with the serial cheater thing, I think what you said is exactly right!

 

Justanaverageguy - I think you know woman pretty well!! And everything you said makes perfect sense !

[Ninjainpajamas]

No Limit- I totally agree with the serial cheater thing, I think what you said is exactly right!

 

Justanaverageguy - I think you know woman pretty well!! And everything you said makes perfect sense !

 

I don't agree with 100 percent with what Justanaverageguy said on every level, but overall it still holds a lot of truth to it.

 

It adds a lot of perspective once you've seen it happen so many times but such a wide variety of people of men and women, you no longer simplify the process as much as you did before.