Too far gone

[Inflikted]

When socializing with other people outside of net face to face people still say whatever they want because they can. Random people come in and out of your life every day. This is where you can make a choice. You can choose to put a smile on your face and say hi how are you doing, or you can ignore them. Just as you do here on forum.

 

Well, it's not like I purposely ignore people, or anything like that. I try to be polite and approachable, as best I can. I'm just not the type that initiates anything. And, unfortunately, I've never been very good at maintaining interactions, either.

 

This is the thing! You ask questions when you don't know what to say. Attempt, or make an effort to learn more about topic by asking questions. This shows interest even though you may not be. It is an opportunity to learn something new. It is not required to have input to add. Very few people if any are masters of all subjects. Starting a conversation can be so simple. All you would have to do is ask a question about the other person. Most people like talking about themselves. You can talk about he weather if all else fails and sometimes it sparks other thoughts to either gradually change subject or stay on subject.

 

Right, but I don't know what to ask, either. Especially if it's something I'm not overly interested in to begin with. Often times in conversations and interactions like this, my mind is just a total blank about what to say or what to ask, or anything like that.

 

How do you try?

 

Like I said, I try to "prep" myself beforehand. I tell myself "If this happens, I should react this way; if that happens, I should react that way". From a logical perspective, I basically know what I shouldn't do, but when the situation comes, my emotions override my logic, and it all goes to hell.

 

This is the problem. Thinking you know the outcome of future. Preparing your self for rejection is self defeating. It comes with the thought why even try I am going to get rejected anyways. Focus on actual moment vs. possible future. On the other hand if you have some kind of insight of the future. I wouldn't mind you giving me some future lottery numbers.

 

I guess, but in the end, I was right to attempt to prepare myself for rejection, as that was the end result. I guess I can see what you're saying to an extent, but because my opportunities to connect seem so seldom, I "invest" a lot into each one emotionally. Probably too much so. Heck, before I asked this girl out, I overcame my crippling fear of driving so that I could get my license because I didn't think she'd find it acceptable that I couldn't drive. I was so invested in her because I liked her more than I'd ever liked anyone, so I had to sit down with myself and think about the very real possibility that all my effort would be for naught.

 

And statistically speaking, the odds of getting rejected by someone are much higher than getting accepted by someone. In all likelihood, even if I do meet someone else that I like a lot, that person will most likely reject me, as well. That's just statistics.

 

what do you usually do? Get clingy, over react due to fear?

 

Pretty much. When people start pulling away from me after our initial encounters, I basically get it in my head that I'm not "pursuing" them enough, that they think I don't like them, or whatever. So I sort of "overcompensate" with trying to pursue them, and that doesn't really go so well.

 

Make a choice that requires you to change!

 

Sure, but that's back to the abstract "question marks" that I'm not smart enough or enough of a critical thinker to really figure out.

 

The only difficult part in responding to you is not being able to do it face to face. I don't find it frustrating. Challenging yes! no offense!

 

Heh, well... I guess the saying "One man's trash is another man's treasure" is a bit applicable here, then.

[chomps]

I don't mean to be crass or rude, but have you considered you might have Asperger's syndrome? I have a friend whose ex-husband has Asperger's and he sounds a lot like your description. If that is the case, a therapist is probably your best bet. Actually, a good therapist would probably do wonders for you regardless.

[Satu]

The thing that you keep rejecting is the fact that you can change.

 

You say, "I'm like this, I'm like that, so things don't work out for me."

 

If your current behaviour doesn't bring you what you need/want, change your behaviour.

[digdug75]

Well, it's not like I purposely ignore people, or anything like that.

 

 

Really? Seems to me not saying hello is a choice, which results are ignoring people. I guess if you have smiled, made a head gesture of some kind to another person this wouldn't be the case. Have you done that?

 

 

I try to be polite and approachable, as best I can. I'm just not the type that initiates anything.

 

 

Ok so only the other person is responsible for initiating communication. I mean heck you could use this as a choice in changing. Change from the none initiator to the initiator. Very simple and takes little energy.

 

 

I've never been very good at maintaining interactions, either.

 

 

Of course I have stated before it takes practice and continual effort. Do you want to be good at maintaining interactions?

 

Right, but I don't know what to ask, either. Especially if it's something I'm not overly interested in to begin with. Often times in conversations and interactions like this, my mind is just a total blank about what to say or what to ask, or anything like that.

 

 

Sometimes you may need to take a short moment to take a deep breath closing your eyes maybe and relax. Do you know what a walipini is? Now I can only assume at this point that you do not know what it is. Is it that difficult for you to reply with a question "what is a walipini"? Even if you have no interest you had made a choice to change you normal routine. I understand that your mind gets overwhelmed and are unable to ask questions, but maybe taking a deep breath thinking of the word walipini. Can cause you to think do I know what a walipini is? I am not really interested but this is an opportunity for me to change patterns.

 

Like I said, I try to "prep" myself beforehand. I tell myself "If this happens, I should react this way; if that happens, I should react that way". From a logical perspective, I basically know what I shouldn't do, but when the situation comes, my emotions override my logic, and it all goes to hell.

 

 

Again you can choose to research how to deal with or control anxious emotions. Simple choice, its just a matter of typing words into google or whatever search engine you use.

 

 

 

I guess, but in the end, I was right to attempt to prepare myself for rejection, as that was the end result.

 

 

My opinion on this statement is that rejection became the end result because that is what you envisioned. You may have stated earlier that you had also envisioned success, but I don't remember.

 

 

 

 

I guess I can see what you're saying to an extent, but because my opportunities to connect seem so seldom, I "invest" a lot into each one emotionally.

 

 

Understood! Similar to a poor person coming into a lot of money all they can think to do is spend.

 

 

I overcame my crippling fear of driving so that I could get my license because I didn't think she'd find it acceptable that I couldn't drive.

 

 

This is excellent information you have shared! You found motivation, desire to change, and you acted upon that desire. Awesome! You have just proved to me that it is possible for you to choose to change. This should also be proof for you.

 

 

I had to sit down with myself and think about the very real possibility that all my effort would be for naught.

 

 

No you really didn't have to do that! You would have received the same emotion if it ended up being for naught. Regardless if you thought about that possibility or not in my opinion.

 

And statistically speaking, the odds of getting rejected by someone are much higher than getting accepted by someone. In all likelihood, even if I do meet someone else that I like a lot, that person will most likely reject me, as well. That's just statistics.

 

 

Sorry I have issues with statistics and the way they are measured. So I ask you then if believe these statistics how did they test? Were the people they measured in a positive frame of mind or negative. Where was the location that they tested to receive statistical information?

 

 

 

Pretty much. When people start pulling away from me after our initial encounters, I basically get it in my head that I'm not "pursuing" them enough, that they think I don't like them, or whatever. So I sort of "overcompensate" with trying to pursue them, and that doesn't really go so well.

 

Yes I know this part. Hard to reply not knowing the amount of effort put into said encounters. You can make rules of engagement. Once you have followed those rules stop leave it alone. Rest is up to the other person, and if they do not reciprocate your efforts move on.

 

Sure, but that's back to the abstract "question marks" that I'm not smart enough or enough of a critical thinker to really figure out.

 

 

Ok if you believe this to be true about yourself. Then use somebody else's brain. In your eyes if you were a critical thinker would you benefit? From your understanding of critical think does it provide a broader span of ideas and options?

 

Heh, well... I guess the saying "One man's trash is another man's treasure" is a bit applicable here, then.

 

 

LOL! I guess if that is how you choose to see things.

 

 

 

Again if you don't like who you are change. If you do not like how you react research and change. Make simple choices like searching net for free groups in your area that deal with social issues. Have you ever seen the movie "What about Bob"?

Edited April 23, 2015 by digdug75

[Inflikted]

I don't mean to be crass or rude, but have you considered you might have Asperger's syndrome? I have a friend whose ex-husband has Asperger's and he sounds a lot like your description. If that is the case, a therapist is probably your best bet. Actually, a good therapist would probably do wonders for you regardless.

 

*shrug* I dunno, I guess I could have that. I don't know a whole lot about that. When it comes to therapy, I tend to believe that I wouldn't be any more receptive of their input than anyone else's, and thus, it would be a waste of not only time, but money as well.

 

Which is the other problem, money. Can't really afford therapy if I wanted to, and it's not covered by my health insurance. I suppose there are "free" options or something along those lines, but I tend to be of the mindset that you get what you pay for.

 

The thing that you keep rejecting is the fact that you can change.

 

You say, "I'm like this, I'm like that, so things don't work out for me."

 

If your current behaviour doesn't bring you what you need/want, change your behaviour.

 

Right, and like I said, I don't feel like I know how to "change my behavior" in a meaningful way. I don't know WHAT to change, I don't know what to change it TO, I don't know HOW to change it, I don't know how to stick with it consistently for it to really take effect.

 

Really? Seems to me not saying hello is a choice, which results are ignoring people. I guess if you have smiled, made a head gesture of some kind to another person this wouldn't be the case. Have you done that?

 

Well, yes, I acknowledge other people when it makes sense to, and I try to do so pleasantly and politely.

 

Ok so only the other person is responsible for initiating communication. I mean heck you could use this as a choice in changing. Change from the none initiator to the initiator. Very simple and takes little energy.

 

I didn't mean that it's their responsibility, I just mean that I can't seem to figure out how to initiate communication properly, and every time I try, it doesn't go well at all.

 

Sometimes you may need to take a short moment to take a deep breath closing your eyes maybe and relax. Do you know what a walipini is? Now I can only assume at this point that you do not know what it is. Is it that difficult for you to reply with a question "what is a walipini"? Even if you have no interest you had made a choice to change you normal routine. I understand that your mind gets overwhelmed and are unable to ask questions, but maybe taking a deep breath thinking of the word walipini. Can cause you to think do I know what a walipini is? I am not really interested but this is an opportunity for me to change patterns.

 

I find that most conversations don't have such glaringly obvious "question bait". Anyway, it's not even so much about my mind being overwhelmed in these situations, it's more that I just completely draw a blank. Rather than having too much information, my head seems to just become completely empty, and it doesn't occur to me to ask questions, what questions to ask, how to ask them, when to ask them, etc.

 

My opinion on this statement is that rejection became the end result because that is what you envisioned. You may have stated earlier that you had also envisioned success, but I don't remember.

 

I'm not sure I'd believe that, personally. On the rare occasion that I actually like someone, I tend to get carried away in my thoughts. I immediately start romanticizing the future, and whatnot, before anything has even really happened. With this girl, I was already thinking about all the adventures we'd go on together, all the fun times we'd share, all the memories we'd make, I was picturing us going on trips together, picturing us getting married, picturing us growing old together. And I hadn't even asked her out yet. It's not... good, to get carried away in those fantasies the way I do, and I try to keep myself grounded by reminding myself that rejection was a very real possibility. Of course, even though I prepped myself, it didn't help the pain any when it set in that all those whimsical fantasies I had about she and I were never going to be real.

 

This is excellent information you have shared! You found motivation, desire to change, and you acted upon that desire. Awesome! You have just proved to me that it is possible for you to choose to change. This should also be proof for you.

 

You'd think so. Oddly enough, I didn't care much about overcoming my fear of driving, after the fact. It's never been something I've really cared about or took pride in. It was just a thing I did in hopes of winning the affections of one particular girl. My feelings for her overrode my senseless fears and doubts about driving. That, in and of itself, seems like a bad thing to me, though. It took an external factor to motivate me and empower me, and that was a one time external factor. I fully realize that I should be able to motivate and empower myself. I should've been able to motivate and empower myself to overcome that fear of driving without having feelings for some girl. I couldn't. I should be able to motivate and empower myself to make changes to my life now. I can't. And unfortunately, I can't rely on there being some external factor to give me that motivation I need.

 

Sorry I have issues with statistics and the way they are measured. So I ask you then if believe these statistics how did they test? Were the people they measured in a positive frame of mind or negative. Where was the location that they tested to receive statistical information?

 

I just think one is more likely to "fail" than "succeed", especially in matters of socializing. It's a lot like going to Vegas and gambling. It's much more likely that you're going to walk away with nothing, than it is that you're going to hit the jackpot. Similarly, socializing and dating seems to be the same kind of "crap shoot". People will either like you and accept you, or they won't. There's not a whole lot of gray area, there. In my experiences, it's much more likely that I'll attempt to connect with people and fail, than it is that I'll attempt to connect with people and actually make friends, date, etc.

 

Ok if you believe this to be true about yourself. Then use somebody else's brain. In your eyes if you were a critical thinker would you benefit? From your understanding of critical think does it provide a broader span of ideas and options?

 

I think that my brain just doesn't work right in certain areas, like it does for a normal person. Perhaps it's some sort of oddly specific mental handicap. I feel like I don't know how to "connect" with people even on a basic level, and even when I try and try and try, I just don't learn how to do it any better, I don't feel like I'm making progress. If I'm being honest, I don't feel like I know how to connect with people any better than I did when I was a young child. I don't know how to explain it any better, and I suspect to the average person, the average person that's had at least one or two connections in their life, it probably doesn't make any sense and isn't very easy to comprehend at all.

[digdug75]

@ Inflikted

 

 

you said " I suppose there are "free" options or something along those lines, but I tend to be of the mindset that you get what you pay for."

 

 

LOL! come on now. Really this is your excuse!? You take what you can get and if you can provide yourself with something better then do so. Doing nothing gets you know where and you know this already!

[Satu]

"I'm like this, I'm like that, so things don't work out for me."

[digdug75]

 

I don't know WHAT to change, I don't know what to change it TO, I don't know HOW to change it, I don't know how to stick with it consistently for it to really take effect.

 

lol! change your negativity!

 

I didn't mean that it's their responsibility, I just mean that I can't seem to figure out how to initiate communication properly, and every time I try, it doesn't go well at all.

 

 

LOL look what do you need to figure out about communication? why express that thought if you are unwilling to except, try, change, or research.

 

 

 

I find that most conversations don't have such glaringly obvious "question bait". Anyway, it's not even so much about my mind being overwhelmed in these situations, it's more that I just completely draw a blank. Rather than having too much information, my head seems to just become completely empty, and it doesn't occur to me to ask questions, what questions to ask, how to ask them, when to ask them, etc.

 

 

I will tell you again and again as many times as it takes. it would benefit you to go to the site socialanxietysupport.com They have the exact same problems as you do and some people have solutions or things that have helped. if you feel most comfortable with forums then that forum is the best thing for you. Here is a reply to someone who asked the very same question on that site. Question was "My mind goes blank how do you deal with this and why does it happen"? This is a reply from person with same problem: " I haven't quite figured it out yet, but I've noticed that on rare occasions where I am feeling somewhat relaxed, it is because I hadn't thought too much about the situation beforehand. If you over think something, it can make you more anxious. Also, having a good mood in general, not having other worries on my mind have helped. Staying up to date with what's going on in the world, learning new things, keeping busy with a hobby, etc. can also sometimes give me something to talk about with others, even if I am feeling anxious. These are all things I am still practicing though. I haven't gotten to the point where I can carry on a lengthy conversation with someone".

 

You'd think so. Oddly enough, I didn't care much about overcoming my fear of driving, after the fact. It's never been something I've really cared about or took pride in. It was just a thing I did in hopes of winning the affections of one particular girl. My feelings for her overrode my senseless fears and doubts about driving. That, in and of itself, seems like a bad thing to me, though. It took an external factor to motivate me.

 

 

Again more negative reinforcement you give yourself. Fact is you were motivated to change due to hope. After the fact doesn't matter. what does matter about this is that you were willing to change and capable of changing! So you now know it can be done. Again the point is you are capable of change if you choose. If you don't want to see this, we can continue to go around and around in circles if you want.

 

 

 

I just think one is more likely to "fail" than "succeed", especially in matters of socializing.

 

 

Fail vs. success depends on you, your thoughts and your choices.

 

 

It's a lot like going to Vegas and gambling.

 

 

In gambling things are set in a manner to give you hope where odds are purposely stacked against you.

 

Relationships, companionships, initiating interaction, these are not situations where odds are purposely stacked against you! All it takes is change to improve situation.

 

 

I think that my brain just doesn't work right in certain areas, like it does for a normal person. Perhaps it's some sort of oddly specific mental handicap. I feel like I don't know how to "connect" with people even on a basic level, and even when I try and try and try, I just don't learn how to do it any better, I don't feel like I'm making progress. If I'm being honest, I don't feel like I know how to connect with people any better than I did when I was a young child. I don't know how to explain it any better, and I suspect to the average person, the average person that's had at least one or two connections in their life, it probably doesn't make any sense and isn't very easy to comprehend at all.

 

 

Ya um this answer didn't relate to my questions? did you not understand the questions?

 

 

 

What did you research today to better understand how to fix your problems?

 

 

what are you hoping to gain from posting threads such as this?

Are you waiting for somebody to agree with how you feel about yourself so you have more of an excuse to quit?

Edited April 23, 2015 by digdug75

[Satu]

(OP) Your mental processes seem to consist of nothing but double binds.

 

 

******************************************************************************

 

 

I don’t feel good

 

therefore I am bad

 

therefore no one loves me.

 

 

 

I feel good

 

therefore I am good

 

therefore everyone loves me.

 

 

 

I am good

 

You do not love me

 

therefore you are bad. So I do not love you.

 

 

 

I am good

 

You love me

 

therefore you are good. So I love you.

 

 

 

I am bad

 

You love me

 

therefore you are bad.

 

 

- RD Laing, Knots.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Satu

[Inflikted]

@ Inflikted

 

 

you said " I suppose there are "free" options or something along those lines, but I tend to be of the mindset that you get what you pay for."

 

 

LOL! come on now. Really this is your excuse!? You take what you can get and if you can provide yourself with something better then do so. Doing nothing gets you know where and you know this already!

 

I just think that it would take years and years with some of the best and brightest in the field to even sift through the craziness in my head. Besides, nothing is ever really "free", at least not long term. I simply don't have any kind of money I can budget towards this type of thing. It doesn't do me much good to briefly work with someone who's probably not as qualified or experienced to handle someone as screwed up in the head as me, and it certainly doesn't help that I'd be biased against them going into it, in the first place.

 

lol! change your negativity!

 

...

 

LOL look what do you need to figure out about communication? why express that thought if you are unwilling to except, try, change, or research.

 

Well, as I said, "change" seems so broad and abstract to me, that my mind doesn't seem to process it properly. A normal person probably understands it better; for them, it's a more clear cut path of "I'll do this, and I'll do it in this way", etc., whereas for me, I just can't comprehend it. It just confuses me, and that confusion leads to further frustration, and that frustration leads to me taking no action.

 

As far as communication goes, it just feels so completely foreign to me. Again, I expect that a normal person probably couldn't really understand what I mean by that, because it probably doesn't make any kind of sense to someone who's brain is working in the proper way, the way it should. To me, on the other hand, you might as well be asking me to do rocket science.

 

Ya um this answer didn't relate to my questions? did you not understand the questions?

 

You asked about "critical thinking", and my response was to demonstrate how my brain doesn't seem to work the same way as that of a normal person. Thus, no, I don't believe I'm a "critical thinker", and yes, I do believe that if I were a bit more clever and socially intelligent, it might not feel like such an insurmountable challenge for me.

 

what are you hoping to gain from posting threads such as this?

 

I... don't know. It's just frustration. Frustration, and anger, and hatred, and bitterness, and resentfulness, and all of that, primarily directed at myself. I direct those feelings at myself, because it burns me up that I just can't seem to figure it out, that I can't get myself to change or do whatever, that I can't connect with people, that I can't have a normal "social" life. It burns me up inside, and I hate myself for being this way.

 

It works in a cyclical way. Things start setting me off, and it bubbles and boils up inside me, and when it hurts the most, that's when I pour it all out here, looking for support, but over time, it cools down a bit, and I fall back into a state of apathy. And then the cycle repeats itself. And it repeats over and over and over again. It's been repeating for years. It will probably repeat for the foreseeable future. I just can't break myself out of this cycle.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

It's simple really. Chose to live your life in the real world. Put all your self isolationist crap like video games, internet, etc away for a set time like say 1 month. Start interacting with people in real life. Do more than the minimum. Start with an easily attainable goal & work towards that. Make mistakes & learn from them. Sit a public places and observe how people interact with each other. If you really want something, you have to put the effort into getting it.

[digdug75]

I just think that it would take years and years with some of the best and brightest in the field to even sift through the craziness in my head. Besides, nothing is ever really "free", at least not long term. I simply don't have any kind of money I can budget towards this type of thing. It doesn't do me much good to briefly work with someone who's probably not as qualified or experienced to handle someone as screwed up in the head as me, and it certainly doesn't help that I'd be biased against them going into it, in the first place.

 

 

You problem is not hard to figure out nor are the solutions. The best and the brightest leads me to believe that you feel you case is unique. Sorry to say it is not.Free mental health help is like pro-bono that lawyers offer. You have a knack for finding an excuse to not even attempt to try!

 

 

Well, as I said, "change" seems so broad and abstract to me, that my mind doesn't seem to process it properly.

 

 

Common sense would suggest that you read definition of change, and research to understand how to change. If your desire is to have companionship. Please explain what you know about change?

 

 

A normal person probably understands it better.

 

 

Normal is a relative term. There are many, many, many people with same problem as you.

 

I expect that a normal person probably couldn't really understand what I mean by that, because it probably doesn't make any kind of sense to someone who's brain is working in the proper way, the way it should.

 

 

LOL! Are you suggesting that I am normal? You don't know a thing about me! Again normal is a relative word. A fifth grader can take time to research. I highly doubt that typing words in google and clicking search button is Rocket Science to you. Did you graduate high school? If you did you would have had to learn to read and comprehend. Are you saying you are incapable of doing this? I find that hard to believe as I have seen you post that you like to read books and comics. As you have stated in previous replies you like to play video games. Well my friend if you were in capable of making decisions and choices you would not be able to finish a book or compete a game. Do you play Chess? As far as critical thinking is concerned you do a lot of that. Just in a negative way! Critical thinking is a technique for evaluating information and ideas, for deciding what to accept and believe. This what you do to form the negative opinion you have of yourself.

 

I direct those feelings at myself, because it burns me up that I just can't seem to figure it out, that I can't get myself to change or do whatever, that I can't connect with people, that I can't have a normal "social" life. It burns me up inside, and I hate myself for being this way.

 

 

I underlined the word I can't because it is a false belief. You can if you choose to. I have already read you are capable of change when expressed that you took the effort to get over fear of driving. So basically from my point of view you are just lying to yourself.

 

 

when it hurts the most, that's when I pour it all out here, looking for support. It will probably repeat for the foreseeable future. I just can't break myself out of this cycle.

 

 

I found it interesting that you said you were looking for support. What kind of support are you looking for? And yes it will probably repeat itself in the future. Because so far you have seemed to be unwilling to except any positive feedback. You seem to be unwilling to try advice given. Yes you cannot break yourself out of cycle at this point because you seem to be unwilling to except help from others. That is why it has been suggested that you see a counselor/therapist. Even still you are unwilling to go to another forum that has others that can relate to you. So yes at this point you cannot fix problem on your own! You have expressed how you are incapable of researching, you have expressed many things that would cause me to conclude that you are unable to help yourself at this point.

 

socialanxietysupport . com / adaa. com / social anxiety anonymous / . there are many things that you can do that would take less effort than preparing a meal to reach desired goals.

[Inflikted]

It's simple really. Chose to live your life in the real world. Put all your self isolationist crap like video games, internet, etc away for a set time like say 1 month. Start interacting with people in real life. Do more than the minimum. Start with an easily attainable goal & work towards that. Make mistakes & learn from them. Sit a public places and observe how people interact with each other. If you really want something, you have to put the effort into getting it.

 

Truth be told, I don't spend THAT much time with my "nerd" hobbies. I'd say most of my free time is spent just browsing around discussion forums on the Internet, looking for people to talk to about stuff. I get the sense that I'm probably "addicted" to the Internet. Every now and then, I ponder on how much of my life I've spent just floating around on the Internet; and that started when I was maybe 13, or so, so that's about 13-ish years. On one hand, that makes me feel really bad about myself, but on the other hand, that's the only form of "social interaction" I've ever been able to have.

 

I suppose if I really HAD to, I could probably pry myself from spending so many hours on the Internet, but I've no idea what I'd do instead. I know I keep saying this, and I know it's not helping my case any, but I just... don't know what to go and do. I don't even know where any good places for things around me are. Even little common things are kinda "eh" to me; I'm not going to go to a coffee place to sit because I don't like coffee, I'm not going to go out to a bar because I don't really drink, etc. Even if I did go to those places, I'd probably just end up pulling out my phone and jumping back on the Internet, because otherwise I'd just be some creepy weirdo sitting in a corner staring off into space.

 

Common sense would suggest that you read definition of change, and research to understand how to change. If your desire is to have companionship. Please explain what you know about change?

 

What do you mean, exactly? I mean... I get it, "change" is doing something differently. For me, it feels impossibly difficult to figure out how to "change" myself. I feel like I don't know what to change, or how to actually change it, and more than that, I don't know how to determine the results to understand what's working and what's not working.

 

Worse than that, it's nigh impossible to get myself to be consistent with things. For example, there have been several instances where I've had the thought that maybe I'll try to start eating a little better. I work hard to do it, but after a week or so, I fall off the wagon and don't look back for quite some time. I don't know why I have so much difficulty sticking to "changes" like this. It frustrates me and makes me angry at myself.

 

LOL! Are you suggesting that I am normal? You don't know a thing about me!

 

I dunno, perhaps it's just my sense of inferiority talking, but I tend to believe that anyone that can offer me sensible input is probably a lot more "sane" and "normal" than I am.

 

I underlined the word I can't because it is a false belief.

 

To an extent, I understand that. But these are things that I've come to believe so strongly about myself. I don't know how to "let go" of this animosity I have towards myself. Honestly, I think the part of me that is so angry with myself and hates myself so much feels that I deserve to be unhappy, alone, and isolated from the outside world. And unfortunately, I've come to believe in that anger and hatred more than anything else in the world.

 

I also wanted to touch on something from a previous post that I forgot to before:

 

Again more negative reinforcement you give yourself. Fact is you were motivated to change due to hope. After the fact doesn't matter. what does matter about this is that you were willing to change and capable of changing! So you now know it can be done. Again the point is you are capable of change if you choose. If you don't want to see this, we can continue to go around and around in circles if you want.

 

The thing is that it's an incredible challenge in and of itself to even find something that gives me that motivation. And even then, it's usually something that I shouldn't be getting that motivation from in the first place.

 

Like I said before, it shouldn't have taken feelings for one specific girl to get me to learn to drive. For most people, that's a completely normal thing people just do in their teens. That's not supposed to be some insurmountable obstacle.

 

I don't know what "motivates" me, and that's the scary thing. Overcoming my fear of driving was probably the "biggest" thing I've ever done for myself, and it took motivation from an improper source to get me there. I've tried to figure out what it would take to "motivate" me to do something for myself. And I just... don't have an answer to that. And that makes me incredibly sad.

 

I found it interesting that you said you were looking for support. What kind of support are you looking for?

 

I don't know. Perhaps it's just some kind of narcissistic desire to know that anyone at all might care enough to even respond to my insane ramblings. I guess I also have this weird desire to argue with people and insist that I AM a worthless piece of crap despite anyone else trying to tell me different. I don't know. I'm a crazy person. Sometimes I don't even know why I do the things I do.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

Really? Do you need someone to hold your hand? Is there a McDonald's close to you? Do you have any used book stores around you? I'm gonna say yes for sake of argument. Go to the book store and look for a Sci-fi book. Get something decent: Asimov, Bradbury, Clarke, P.K. Dick, Heinemann, etc. Douglas Adams is good, but not really Sci-fi.

 

 

Take your book & a notebook to your local McDonald's. Buy a drink & spend at least an hour reading. Make notes, both about the book and your observations.

 

 

After getting comfortable doing that a few times, go back to the book store. Look for a war book written by a combat vet, about what they did. Go back and put your time in at the McDonald's. Learn to flirt with the cashiers. Once you become a regular, they will feel more comfortable around you, if you don't act all creepy.

[digdug75]

Truth be told, I don't spend THAT much time with my "nerd" hobbies. I'd say most of my free time is spent just browsing around discussion forums on the Internet, looking for people to talk to about stuff. I get the sense that I'm probably "addicted" to the Internet. Every now and then, I ponder on how much of my life I've spent just floating around on the Internet; and that started when I was maybe 13, or so, so that's about 13-ish years. On one hand, that makes me feel really bad about myself, but on the other hand, that's the only form of "social interaction" I've ever been able to have.

 

I suppose if I really HAD to, I could probably pry myself from spending so many hours on the Internet, but I've no idea what I'd do instead. I know I keep saying this, and I know it's not helping my case any, but I just... don't know what to go and do. I don't even know where any good places for things around me are. Even little common things are kinda "eh" to me; I'm not going to go to a coffee place to sit because I don't like coffee, I'm not going to go out to a bar because I don't really drink, etc. Even if I did go to those places, I'd probably just end up pulling out my phone and jumping back on the Internet, because otherwise I'd just be some creepy weirdo sitting in a corner staring off into space.

 

 

 

What do you mean, exactly? I mean... I get it, "change" is doing something differently. For me, it feels impossibly difficult to figure out how to "change" myself. I feel like I don't know what to change, or how to actually change it, and more than that, I don't know how to determine the results to understand what's working and what's not working.

 

Worse than that, it's nigh impossible to get myself to be consistent with things. For example, there have been several instances where I've had the thought that maybe I'll try to start eating a little better. I work hard to do it, but after a week or so, I fall off the wagon and don't look back for quite some time. I don't know why I have so much difficulty sticking to "changes" like this. It frustrates me and makes me angry at myself.

 

 

 

I dunno, perhaps it's just my sense of inferiority talking, but I tend to believe that anyone that can offer me sensible input is probably a lot more "sane" and "normal" than I am.

 

 

 

To an extent, I understand that. But these are things that I've come to believe so strongly about myself. I don't know how to "let go" of this animosity I have towards myself. Honestly, I think the part of me that is so angry with myself and hates myself so much feels that I deserve to be unhappy, alone, and isolated from the outside world. And unfortunately, I've come to believe in that anger and hatred more than anything else in the world.

 

I also wanted to touch on something from a previous post that I forgot to before:

 

 

 

The thing is that it's an incredible challenge in and of itself to even find something that gives me that motivation. And even then, it's usually something that I shouldn't be getting that motivation from in the first place.

 

Like I said before, it shouldn't have taken feelings for one specific girl to get me to learn to drive. For most people, that's a completely normal thing people just do in their teens. That's not supposed to be some insurmountable obstacle.

 

I don't know what "motivates" me, and that's the scary thing. Overcoming my fear of driving was probably the "biggest" thing I've ever done for myself, and it took motivation from an improper source to get me there. I've tried to figure out what it would take to "motivate" me to do something for myself. And I just... don't have an answer to that. And that makes me incredibly sad.

 

 

 

I don't know. Perhaps it's just some kind of narcissistic desire to know that anyone at all might care enough to even respond to my insane ramblings. I guess I also have this weird desire to argue with people and insist that I AM a worthless piece of crap despite anyone else trying to tell me different. I don't know. I'm a crazy person. Sometimes I don't even know why I do the things I do.

 

Emotions are what motivates people! Your current motivations of doing nothing is due to the emotions of anger at self, because you are not perfect. Nobody is perfect. To succeed at something that is truly difficult for someone is hard. The person is most likely bound to fail or not obtain desired goal. Emotion is the motivation that causes someone to keep trying. Determination another motivation. I question your desire that you claim is the most important thing to you in your life "compassion". You have many negative emotions that cause you to be motivated to do nothing and listen to no one. This process of self hate can be overcome by learning about self-compassion and how to apply it in your life. You say you are a crazy person. LOL! No just self defeating. who at this point is unwilling to seek help from my point of view. You do realize that this forum is titled " Self-improvement and Personal Wellbeing". I guess it is possible that you are seeking personal well-being, but the constant rejection of any positive reinforcement to me would suggest that you are not. If all you want to do is vent out frustrations. The better forum on this site to post threads is "Rants and Raves". People on this site I think assume people actually want help to improve themselves, or to have reinforcement of positive energy. Correct me if I am wrong but you reject both.

[Inflikted]

Emotions are what motivates people! Your current motivations of doing nothing is due to the emotions of anger at self, because you are not perfect. Nobody is perfect. To succeed at something that is truly difficult for someone is hard. The person is most likely bound to fail or not obtain desired goal. Emotion is the motivation that causes someone to keep trying. Determination another motivation. I question your desire that you claim is the most important thing to you in your life "compassion". You have many negative emotions that cause you to be motivated to do nothing and listen to no one. This process of self hate can be overcome by learning about self-compassion and how to apply it in your life. You say you are a crazy person. LOL! No just self defeating. who at this point is unwilling to seek help from my point of view. You do realize that this forum is titled " Self-improvement and Personal Wellbeing". I guess it is possible that you are seeking personal well-being, but the constant rejection of any positive reinforcement to me would suggest that you are not. If all you want to do is vent out frustrations. The better forum on this site to post threads is "Rants and Raves". People on this site I think assume people actually want help to improve themselves, or to have reinforcement of positive energy. Correct me if I am wrong but you reject both.

 

Right, and that's something I struggle with. A part of me does want actual support and input, but as soon as I get it, my natural instinct is to reject it. Even if I don't outright respond and reject it that way, I still scoff at it, to myself. I'm not proud of that, by any means. It's just one of those weird behaviors of mine that I've never been able to adjust.

 

Which plays into another reason why I'm iffy about "professional help", because it would be a waste of time and money for me to go see a professional, only to reject everything they say.

 

As far as "motivation" and "desires" go, as I've said many many times, I hate the abstract and the vague. Yes, the thing I want most in life is to have people I care about in my life. But when there's no one specific for me to link those desires to, it's just some foggy, unclear image, and that doesn't inspire any motivation in me.

 

I guess, in a way, that goes back to me not really liking anyone I meet or encounter. Everyone is just kind of "meh" to me. I don't really expect the world from anyone, but I just never feel any kind of connection with anyone.

[digdug75]

Which plays into another reason why I'm iffy about "professional help", because it would be a waste of time and money for me to go see a professional, only to reject everything they say.

 

 

Overthinking trying to predict or thinking you know outcome of future!

 

As far as "motivation" and "desires" go, as I've said many many times, I hate the abstract and the vague. Yes, the thing I want most in life is to have people I care about in my life. But when there's no one specific for me to link those desires to, it's just some foggy, unclear image, and that doesn't inspire any motivation in me.

 

 

Education resolves the abstract and vague. You would have to fix yourself first. Whether you get help from another to fix yourself or you use your desire(which by the way is another thing that converts into emotion) to fix problems with yourself. Right now what you truly want most out of life is to hate yourself. This self hate when added with overthinking. Leads to your current state. Which could be fixed in many ways!

 

I guess, in a way, that goes back to me not really liking anyone I meet or encounter. Everyone is just kind of "meh" to me. I don't really expect the world from anyone, but I just never feel any kind of connection with anyone.

 

 

In my opinion you are abusing your self and justifying its necessity. (such as you deserve to treat yourself that way) Why should you feel any kind of connection with others? Everything you do is designed to not allow connection with others.

 

 

 

Some life changing ideas in no particular order:

1. Destroy computer and game console.

2. Find a different job that you know you won't like that pays more. You don't like current retail jobs so what difference would it make.

3. Move out of parents house

4. Drive as far away from where you live until you run out of gas

5. Talk to your parents about your current feelings about yourself.

6. Drive to an area where nobody can hear you and yell. I mean yell with every bit of energy you have. let out all bottled up disgust and hatred towards your self out.

7. Say 3 positive things about yourself and say the out loud while looking into mirror. If you can't think of any ask your parents for help.

 

 

socialanxietysupport.com Adaa.com / Several topics to look into. Self compassion, Meditation, How to overcome social isolation, effect of fast food on emotions, possible allergies to processed food, positive affirmations because if you don't care about yourself how can you expect to care about others.

Edited April 25, 2015 by digdug75

[Inflikted]

Here's the thing. Yeah, I can do stuff to "get out more" and "meet people more", and whatever. But that doesn't change the fact that I "don't like" anyone. I've met and known so many different people over my years, and I can count on one hand the amount of people I actually had even the slightest interest in having some kind of connection with.

 

That's one of the things that bothers me so much. I want to "like" people more, I want to be normal in that regard. But I meet people, I get to know people, and I just find myself feeling "meh" towards them. I hate that I feel that way.

 

Perhaps, and I'm just throwing this out there, but perhaps that's one of the reasons I'm so resistant to the advice of "getting out there" and trying to mingle with people, because I go out into the world, I encounter people, and I don't like them, and it just reminds me that I "don't like" anyone, and that makes me feel awful, and abnormal.

[digdug75]

I understand your reasoning. This is why I have expressed you do research on your own merit. So you can developed your own solutions. Research, study, and learn about your problems and how to change them. Fix yourself to the point that you are able to approach society with helpful tools to attack problems.

 

 

I mean there are so many things and possibilities! Look into Schizoid Personality Disorder( read Dr. Salman Akhtar's Phenomenological profile of Schizoid Personality Disorder) Look into things that you can do on your own. Possible therapies such as Dialectical Behavior Therapy. There is a good book called "Don't Let Your Emotions Run Your Life" by Scott E. Spradlin. You can check out Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT/CBGT therapy). There is Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT therapy) founded by Steven C. Hayes. If you ever get the money there is Psychotherapeutic therapy. There are many more things to learn about emotions and how to counteract negative thinking. Self compassion for one.

 

 

Psychiatry is not the only venue to possible solving your problems. There is the studies done on Mycoplasma, Microbes, Viruses, Infections, Diseases ect.. and their effects on mental status. Look here is an article you can easily choose to read on the net "The Overlooked Relationship Between Infectious Diseases and Mental Symptoms" By Dr. James Howens. It is quite possible that all you need to cure what ails you is taking an antiviral vaccine.

 

 

It is your life ultimately it is your choice. Either do nothing continuing the unproductive self hate and anger or be productive in figuring out to resolve problems using the huge resource called the internet.

 

 

Don't forget you can always go to socialanxietysupport.com. I am sure you will come up with some kind of rebuttal on why you cannot do these things. No matter what you come up with if your desire is to fix things that are holding you back from getting what you want. Then your choice and motivation is clear. All's you have to do is step forward metaphorically speaking

[Inflikted]

Don't forget you can always go to socialanxietysupport.com. I am sure you will come up with some kind of rebuttal on why you cannot do these things. No matter what you come up with if your desire is to fix things that are holding you back from getting what you want. Then your choice and motivation is clear. All's you have to do is step forward metaphorically speaking

 

It actually occurs to me that the site you've been directing me to is one I've been visiting sporadically for the last year or two. Never really felt like I gained much insight from the site, though, as I don't really consider what I have to be "social anxiety", per se.

 

I also frequent the forums over there, but it seems like most responses I get there are just people saying the equivalent of "I have no input, but I wanted to say I can understand some of the things you're going through", which is nice and all, but I don't really take any kind of solace in that, or anything.

[Inflikted]

Anyway, that seems to be one of the major reasons why I'm "stuck"; I'm dreadfully sad and miserable being alone by myself, but I'm also dreadfully sad and miserable going out into the world because even with people around me, I'm still "alone".

 

And the pain and suffering in both instances is equally harrowing. It kills me to be isolated all by myself doing nothing at home, but it kills me to go out into the world and be completely unable to form any kind of meaningful connection with anyone around me.

 

I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. I'm either sad and miserable and lonely sitting alone at home, or I'm sad and miserable and lonely out in the world as everyone just flows around me.

[Satu]

"I'm like this, I'm like that, so things don't work out for me."

 

I am doing it

the it I am doing is

the I that is doing it

the I that is doing it is

the it I am doing

it is doing the I that am doing it

I am being done by the it I am doing

 

 

- RD Laing, Knots.

[Satu]

Anyway, that seems to be one of the major reasons why I'm "stuck"; I'm dreadfully sad and miserable being alone by myself, but I'm also dreadfully sad and miserable going out into the world because even with people around me, I'm still "alone".

 

And the pain and suffering in both instances is equally harrowing. It kills me to be isolated all by myself doing nothing at home, but it kills me to go out into the world and be completely unable to form any kind of meaningful connection with anyone around me.

 

I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. I'm either sad and miserable and lonely sitting alone at home, or I'm sad and miserable and lonely out in the world as everyone just flows around me.

 

As I've said previously, your thinking seems to consist almost exclusively of double-binds.

 

As far as traps go, its close to genius.

[digdug75]

It actually occurs to me that the site you've been directing me to is one I've been visiting sporadically for the last year or two. Never really felt like I gained much insight from the site, though, as I don't really consider what I have to be "social anxiety", per se.

 

I also frequent the forums over there, but it seems like most responses I get there are just people saying the equivalent of "I have no input, but I wanted to say I can understand some of the things you're going through", which is nice and all, but I don't really take any kind of solace in that, or anything.

 

 

Ok good you have tried the site! It would have been nice to know this sooner. lol

 

 

I don't think you have social anxiety either! It is the only site that I could find where people can discuss common problems as you! If you are looking for a label. Then schizoid personality disorder is what best describes your problems. According to what you have written in my opinion.

[digdug75]

Schizoid personality disorder (SPD) is a personality disorder characterized by a lack of interest in social relationships, a tendency towards a solitary lifestyle, secretiveness, emotional coldness, and apathy. Affected individuals may simultaneously demonstrate a rich, elaborate and exclusively internal fantasy world.

 

 

I would guess your subtype would be Affectless schizoid because these features seem to fit your description of you as I understand those descriptions. These are the features: Passionless, unresponsive, unaffectionate, chilly, uncaring, unstirred, spiritless, lackluster, unexcitable, unperturbed, cold; all emotions diminished. Although you do have hate, and anger.

 

 

Guntrip and his views with his patients with problems: Characteristics result in loneliness: "Loneliness is an inescapable result of schizoid introversion and abolition of external relationships. It reveals itself in the intense longing for friendship and love which repeatedly break through. Loneliness in the midst of a crowd is the experience of the schizoid cut off from affective rapport." This is a central experience of the schizoid that is often lost to the observer. Contrary to the familiar caricature of the schizoid as uncaring and cold, the vast majority of schizoid persons who become patients express at some point in their treatment their longing for friendship and love. This is not the schizoid patient as described in the DSMs. Such longing, however, may not break through except in the schizoid’s fantasy life, to which the therapist may not be allowed access for quite a long period in treatment.

 

 

The longing for closeness and attachment is almost unidentifiable to such a person. These individuals will not voluntarily become patients, as the schizoid individual who becomes a patient does so often because of the twin motivations of loneliness and longing. This type of patient believes that some kind of connection and attachment is possible and is well suited to psychotherapy.

 

 

SPD shares several aspects with other psychological conditions, but there are some important differentiating features: Depression; People who have SPD may also suffer from clinical depression, but this is not always the case. Unlike depressed people, persons with SPD generally do not consider themselves inferior to others, although they will probably recognize that they are different. Avoidant personality disorder; People affected with avoidant personality disorder avoid social interactions due to anxiety or feelings of incompetence, but those with SPD do so because they are genuinely indifferent to social relationships. A 1989 study, however, found that "schizoid and avoidant personalities were found to display equivalent levels of anxiety, depression, and psychotic tendencies as compared to psychiatric control patients." One SPD patient remarked that previous knowledge, expectations, or assumptions may result in such elevated levels. SPD patients also tend to repeatedly mentally simulate damaging scenarios so as to flatten negative effects, should such a scenario occur in reality. Withdrawnness;

Withdrawnness means detachment from the outer world, the other side of introversion. Only a small portion of schizoid individuals present with a clear and obvious timidity, reluctance, or avoidance of the external world and interpersonal relationships. Many fundamentally schizoid people present with an engaging, interactive personality style.

Such a person can appear to be available, interested, engaged and involved in interacting with others, but he or she may in reality be emotionally withdrawn and sequestered in a safe place in an internal world. Withdrawnness is a characteristic feature of schizoid pathology, but it is sometimes overt and sometimes covert. Overt withdrawnness matches the usual description of the schizoid personality, but withdrawnness is just as often a covert, hidden, internal state of the patient.

The patient's observable behavior may not accurately reflect the internal state of their mind. One should not mistake introversion for indifference, and one should not miss identifying the schizoid patient due to misinterpretation of the patient's defensive, compensatory, engaging interaction with external reality