Scientology

[Els]

In a sudden burst of awakening, feeling the spiritual void for the first time ever since I embraced atheism many years back, I find myself looking up Scientology. People being 'immortal beings who have forgotten their true nature' sounds pretty encouraging, although the term 'auditing' conjures scary memories of financial documents.

 

The thetan - the true intrinsically good, omniscient, non-material persona within me - is perhaps just waiting for me to accept it and embrace it.

 

(But I don't want to pay for the introductory course. I wonder how amenable L Ron. Hubbard is to an online self-study course)

 

Has anyone else discovered new religions that interest them?

[Lurkeraspect]

In a sudden burst of awakening, feeling the spiritual void for the first time ever since I embraced atheism many years back, I find myself looking up Scientology. People being 'immortal beings who have forgotten their true nature' sounds pretty encouraging, although the term 'auditing' conjures scary memories of financial documents.

 

The thetan - the true intrinsically good, omniscient, non-material persona within me - is perhaps just waiting for me to accept it and embrace it.

 

(But I don't want to pay for the introductory course. I wonder how amenable L Ron. Hubbard is to an online self-study course)

 

Has anyone else discovered new religions that interest them?

 

Have you watched the HBO Documentary- Going Clear? I might suggest watching that before investing any serious time (or money) into Scientology.

 

But to answer your last question; no. I avoid any an all (organized) religion.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Lurkeraspect

[Robert Z]

In a sudden burst of awakening, feeling the spiritual void for the first time ever since I embraced atheism many years back, I find myself looking up Scientology.

 

 

You might want to check into the controversy related to this organization.

[Kamille]

This is a surprising post coming from you Elswyth, but I for one think it's a good thing that you're exploring different systems of belief.

 

Scientology has certainly come under a lot of scrutiny, but what religion hasn't? Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone! Besides, religious beliefs help you build community. And what better community than one where you are likely to run into a bunch of celebrities, including Laura Prepon? One question: are there a lot of scientist in the Church? Why is it called scientology?

 

I myself have been toying with the idea of joining FSM. Perhaps you would be interested in checking out the manifesto? As you can see, pastafarians welcome believers of all faiths, including Scientologists.

[Taramere]

In a sudden burst of awakening, feeling the spiritual void for the first time ever since I embraced atheism many years back, I find myself looking up Scientology. People being 'immortal beings who have forgotten their true nature' sounds pretty encouraging, although the term 'auditing' conjures scary memories of financial documents.

 

The thetan - the true intrinsically good, omniscient, non-material persona within me - is perhaps just waiting for me to accept it and embrace it.

 

(But I don't want to pay for the introductory course. I wonder how amenable L Ron. Hubbard is to an online self-study course)

 

Has anyone else discovered new religions that interest them?

 

The Scientologists tried to sign me up with them when I was 20. I'd walked past this building, seen something about a free personality test, been interested - and the next thing you know I was in a darkened room watching a video about Hubbard's life story. They were a freaky bunch. They tried to get me to sign a contract that would require me to pay thousands of pounds if I ever tried to leave (because, of course, that would survive that Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977).

 

Having them try to recruit me was an interesting enough experience. After watching the video in the darkened room, I received the results of my personality test from an aggressive middle aged man. He told me that the personality test results showed me to be overly competitive, and that my mother had likely tried to abort me with a coat hanger (I kid you not) but that the Scientologists would audit all the dysfunction out of me. When that didn't persuade me to sign up for all the fun, they dredged up a young guy my own age who tried to charm me into it.

 

It was surprisingly difficult to get out of that building. They did all but physically restrain me from leaving. Eventually I said I was really interested in learning more, and bought a book on Dianetics so that they would let me go. I did actually read the book, and wasn't surprised (after my brief experience) to discover that Hubbard had an obsession with the notion of women trying to abort their unborn children with coathangers.

 

I was even less surprised to subsequently read (elsewhere) that Hubbard himself was a bit handy with a coathanger in these situations. As far as I could see, Scientologist was an example of a dysfunctional human being making a tidy sum from projecting his messed up issues onto the rest of humanity then promising his auditing courses could cure them of what ails him.

[writergal]

A friend of mine is in a relationship with L. Ron Hubbard's great-grandson right now,

. I've met him a couple of times in person. He's very normal and definitely *not* a Scientologist.

 

Personally, I think Scientology is just another system designed to brainwash and control vulnerable people, which is essentially the role religion plays in society. Religion -- even Scientology -- uses fear and lies to control people. The best system is no system - Atheism - because you think for yourself.

 

There's a Scientology Center here and it's always dark. So I'm not sure if people have joined, or the building is empty. You couldn't pay me to go near that place. Yikes.

[Els]

You all are right. I must've been pretty smashed when I wrote that.

 

I must say that despite the bad rap, it sounds an awful lot like certain other mainstream religions, though. Auditing/confession and payment/tithes anyone?

 

I will not be joining scientology. (FSM sounds good but I don't like beer )

[gaius]

Don't let them bully you out of it Els. There's definitely a need for a new religion that doesn't conflict so bad with science, and scientology has as much potential as any of them. The whole nickel and diming people from the very beginning is really holding them back though.

[Michelle ma Belle]

I haven't found any religion that fits well with my soul and in my own search for truth and what it all means. And believe me I've tried.

 

Instead I choose to read lots of books and explore lectures on various subjects pertaining to love and life and spirituality and alternative thinking. And what I've come to learn is that at their core they are all pretty much the same; love.

 

One of my favorite quotes about religion is; "Like the bee gathering honey from the different flowers, the wise person accepts the essence of the different scriptures and sees only the good in all religions." - Gandhi.

 

This is my religion.

 

Regardless, here are a few of my favorite reads that kind of run the gamut in terms of philosophies which might be worth consideration. They have all helped me in my own journey over the years;

 

1. Conversations with God (or any of the books by the same author) - Neale Donald Walsch

2. Your Soul's Plan - Robert Schwartz

3. Out on a Limb / Going Within - Shirley MacLean

4. The Art of Happiness - Dalai Lama

 

[Timshel]

A friend of mine is in a relationship with L. Ron Hubbard's great-grandson right now,

. I've met him a couple of times in person. He's very normal and definitely *not* a Scientologist.

 

Personally, I think Scientology is just another system designed to brainwash and control vulnerable people, which is essentially the role religion plays in society. Religion -- even Scientology -- uses fear and lies to control people. The best system is no system - Atheism - because you think for yourself.

There's a Scientology Center here and it's always dark. So I'm not sure if people have joined, or the building is empty. You couldn't pay me to go near that place. Yikes.

 

 

What about being agnostic or deism (deistic?) I think I am deistic because I am spiritual, believe in God but am repelled by organized religions that I know of.

I like your avatar btw.

 

I'm not sure if you are being facetious gaius but I agree about integrating science and religion. I don't see them as separate but intrinsic to each other.

[gaius]

I'm not sure if you are being facetious gaius but I agree about integrating science and religion. I don't see them as separate but intrinsic to each other.

I wasn't, and I agree. I think it's unfortunate that for a woman like Els that it's almost impossible for her to embrace a religion like Christianity without some sort of social blowback. Just due to the scientific, intellectual work she does and the kind of people that brings. =/

 

Atheism really offers nothing except the feeling that you know better than other people and the social benefits that come with being an atheist. Which pale in comparison to what religious belief can bring to a person. So it would be nice if someone could come up with something that reconciles the two. And that you don't have to pay an arm and a leg to get into.

[CarrieT]

Here is my confession....

 

My first marriage (25+ years ago) was to a Hubbard. Yes, one of *those* Hubbards - a great nephew...

 

And Thanksgiving dinners with those people were rife with stories. Stories of Great Uncle Ron and what a shyster he was. And how much he KNEW he was a shyster. Everyone in the family knew it was a scam. Ron knew it was a scam. But so much of a scam that Ron began to believe his own lies. And the family couldn't do anything about it.

 

Scientology is bull****! Man, I was there the night L. Ron Hubbard invented it, for Christ's sakes! … We were sitting around one night... who else was there? Alfred Bester, and Cyril Kornbluth, and Lester del Rey, and Ron Hubbard, who was making a penny a word, and had been for years. And he said "This bull****'s got to stop!" He says, "I gotta get money." He says, "I want to get rich". And somebody said, "why don't you invent a new religion? They're always big." We were clowning! You know, "Become Elmer Gantry! You'll make a fortune!" He says, "I'm going to do it.

"The Real Harlan Ellison" in Wings (November-December 1978) p. 32

[Michelle ma Belle]

Here is my confession....

 

My first marriage (25+ years ago) was to a Hubbard. Yes, one of *those* Hubbards - a great nephew...

 

And Thanksgiving dinners with those people were rife with stories. Stories of Great Uncle Ron and what a shyster he was. And how much he KNEW he was a shyster. Everyone in the family knew it was a scam. Ron knew it was a scam. But so much of a scam that Ron began to believe his own lies. And the family couldn't do anything about it.

 

"The Real Harlan Ellison" in Wings (November-December 1978) p. 32

 

The whole fabrication and how it became a "religion" is revealed in the documentary Going Clear. Worth a watch. It's available on YouTube right now.

[Anela]

I wasn't, and I agree. I think it's unfortunate that for a woman like Els that it's almost impossible for her to embrace a religion like Christianity without some sort of social blowback. Just due to the scientific, intellectual work she does and the kind of people that brings. =/

 

Atheism really offers nothing except the feeling that you know better than other people and the social benefits that come with being an atheist. Which pale in comparison to what religious belief can bring to a person. So it would be nice if someone could come up with something that reconciles the two. And that you don't have to pay an arm and a leg to get into.

 

There are religious people who also think that they know better than others. That's why they put so much work into trying to convert others.

[CarrieT]

The whole fabrication and how it became a "religion" is revealed in the documentary Going Clear. Worth a watch. It's available on YouTube right now.

 

Yeah, I saw it... They got a few things wrong; specifically about the O.T.O., Jack Parsons, and Marjorie Cameron.

[Anela]

I haven't found any religion that fits well with my soul and in my own search for truth and what it all means. And believe me I've tried.

 

Instead I choose to read lots of books and explore lectures on various subjects pertaining to love and life and spirituality and alternative thinking. And what I've come to learn is that at their core they are all pretty much the same; love.

 

One of my favorite quotes about religion is; "Like the bee gathering honey from the different flowers, the wise person accepts the essence of the different scriptures and sees only the good in all religions." - Gandhi.

 

This is my religion.

 

Regardless, here are a few of my favorite reads that kind of run the gamut in terms of philosophies which might be worth consideration. They have all helped me in my own journey over the years;

 

1. Conversations with God (or any of the books by the same author) - Neale Donald Walsch

2. Your Soul's Plan - Robert Schwartz

3. Out on a Limb / Going Within - Shirley MacLean

4. The Art of Happiness - Dalai Lama

 

 

I read the second book, four years ago, and I'm not actually sure what to think. I was obsessed with reading about reincarnation, for a while, comforted by the knowledge that I would see the people I love again, and I kind of liked the idea of living totally different lives. When I'm more depressed, though, I think it sounds more like a sadistic/masochistic cycle.

 

I don't want to trample on what you believe, so I'm not sure if I should say anything more. I looked up the people mentioned in that book, hoping for a reading, and was appalled at their prices. I know they need to make a living, but I don't have that kind of money to throw around on what might or might not be true.

 

I started to read the first Conversations With God book, but it frustrated me that "he" never seemed to get to the point. It was like a circular argument we might read on here, but I didn't read much of it, so I might give it another try.

 

*edit. I don't know if this should be in a separate thread. Sorry.

[MidwestUSA]

You all are right. I must've been pretty smashed when I wrote that.

 

I must say that despite the bad rap, it sounds an awful lot like certain other mainstream religions, though. Auditing/confession and payment/tithes anyone?

 

I will not be joining scientology. (FSM sounds good but I don't like beer )

 

I'm sure if you and I hung out for a couple of weeks, I'd find a beer you like, or at least tolerate. No auditing, I'll even buy. I'm chivalrous like that.

 

Let me know when your schedule opens up.

[autumnnight]

I'll be honest, after doing a good bit of reading and watching a couple of documentaries, Scientology reminds me a bit of Hotel California....you can check in, but you better not try to check out.

[writergal]

I'll be honest, after doing a good bit of reading and watching a couple of documentaries, Scientology reminds me a bit of Hotel California....you can check in, but you better not try to check out.

 

+1!! Haha! I like the way you think autumnnight!

[Rejected Rosebud]

Hi Els I don't think you need to make apologies or excuses like being smashed to write something like that, it is nice to see your spiritual side on here, don't be ashamed of that!

[MidwestUSA]

Hi Els I don't think you need to make apologies or excuses like being smashed to write something like that, it is nice to see your spiritual side on here, don't be ashamed of that!

 

I have to admit I'm more interested in her 'smashed' side! Not sure we've seen that before.

 

I did some reading, and am a bit confused, doesn't wine go better with pasta? I know pirates love their grog, but I think wine should be an option. Spaghetti + beer = bloated feeling. That was really the only downside I could see to that choice. I'm expanding my collection of eye patches now, and I've already got the pirate talk down, thanks to my kids, er, maties.

[Haydn]

Cobra beer on me if we escape the clutches of Scientologists.

 

I once had an interest in JW, i was very much smitten with one of their members. Kingdom Hall never looked so good.

[Kamille]

I have to admit I'm more interested in her 'smashed' side! Not sure we've seen that before.

 

I did some reading, and am a bit confused, doesn't wine go better with pasta? I know pirates love their grog, but I think wine should be an option. Spaghetti + beer = bloated feeling. That was really the only downside I could see to that choice. I'm expanding my collection of eye patches now, and I've already got the pirate talk down, thanks to my kids, er, maties.

 

 

Good point mate! We should form a break off sect and call ourselves the foodie pastafarians.

 

Els, do you like wine?

[gaius]

There are religious people who also think that they know better than others. That's why they put so much work into trying to convert others.

Yes, which means you can get that benefit with religion too. The only exclusive benefit to atheism is the approval of other atheists. Which isn't all that beneficial overall, especially compared to what religion can offer.

 

I've heard good things about transcendental meditation from people who traditionally stick to atheist circles, but I don't think that really counts as a religion.

[writergal]

What about being agnostic or deism (deistic?) I think I am deistic because I am spiritual, believe in God but am repelled by organized religions that I know of.

 

I like your avatar btw.

 

I'm not sure if you are being facetious gaius but I agree about integrating science and religion. I don't see them as separate but intrinsic to each other.

 

Thanks Timshel! I like my new avatar too. Suits me best I think!

 

As to your other question, I found these definitions online. I identify as an Atheist and have no problem with what anyone identifies with, if it's different than what I believe.

 

From infoplease.com:

 

A theist believes there is a God who made and governs all creation; but does not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, nor in a divine revelation.

 

A deist believes there is a God who created all things, but does not believe in His superintendence and government. He thinks the Creator implanted in all things certain immutable laws, called the Laws of Nature, which act per se, as a watch acts without the supervision of its maker. Like the theist, he does not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, nor in a divine revelation.

 

The atheist disbelieves even the existence of a God. He thinks matter is eternal, and what we call “creation” is the result of natural laws.

 

The agnostic believes only what is knowable. He rejects revelation and the doctrine of the Trinity as “past human understanding.” He is neither theist, deist, nor atheist, as all these are past understanding.