ISO people who did the work and saved the marriage (or not)

[66Charger]

The more you write the more I feel sorry for your husband. You didnt marry for love? You married him for comfort? What if he actually knew that? Felt it from you? Then he does all he can to give you "comfort" and you change the rules and are now bashing him. Keep posting. I would be so interested to hear his thoughts.

Divorce the man. Let him find someone who loves him for him, not "comfort" and has a little bit of honor

For shame

[understand50]

"Can you tell me more about why you think it's so important that I make a commitment to the marriage? This is the crux of my husband's frustration, that I won't commit to staying in the marriage. I have committed to doing the work, but won't make a promise that I'm not sure I can keep (to stay married). Why isn't the commitment to do the work enough of a commitment?" Bluemood

 

Bluemood,

 

From a husband's point of view, it is important, because if you do not commit to the relationship, the marriage, he see this as doomed before you both start the hard work to fix the issues. He wants to know if you want to stay with him, and if you want to try and get back the love and trust you both once had.

 

In my case, once I decided, I wanted to try and save our marriage. (financial infidelity), I asked my wife if she did as well. I made her take a week to give me a answer. I told her I did not want the marriage we had, and we would have to, as a couple, work in making a new one. We are still a work in progress.

 

My point is, you will not commit to the marriage you had. If I was you, I would not as well. Can you commit to your husband to try and find the marriage, that you both want? and if that marriage is "born" you can see yourself staying and committing to that relationship? Let him, know that you will work hard with him to find this, and it will be better for your family to get there. This can be a fun trip, if you approach it as you both finding something new.

 

Just my two cents, good luck.

3790379237943795

[66Charger]

Lady, cant you see how wrong you were from the beginning? It was you who robbed this man of 13 years. I would sleep on the couch too if my wife never married me for love. You wronged him....twice

[miseenscene]

I am someone who was in a similar marriage with a similar dynamic for years -- I always wanted to work on things, I went to therapy for myself, I forced couples therapy through ultimatums, I was constantly reading self-help books on how to create a better marriage, thinking up date nights and exercises for us to do to communicate better. And also reluctant to leave because of what I felt was my responsibility as a mother. I am divorced now and it was the best decision I ever made -- this is just to explain where I am coming from with my input.

 

So, I have several thoughts. First of all, I want to address this: " but let's not start the "what's best for the kids are happy parents" conversation, because the goal is not happiness, is it? isn't it stability for the children? to hurt as few people as possible?" I think this is a false opposition because the implication is happiness is for oneself (and selfish) and stability is for the kids, and good for them. I recently wrote on another thread that a major part of what finally motivated me to leave was that I realized that my child was learning about what marriage was from being raised in a sh*tty one. And that my husband' parents had a marriage where they stayed together to provide stability for the kids -- but the dad was checked out, and the mom was full of quiet resentment. And that my husband was willing to stay in our sh*tty marriage because that was what he learned was "normal" for a marriage. That felt familiar and comfortable to him, even though it felt bad. I felt like I saw how in choosing "stability" I was continuing this cycle. So for me, even if I was choosing happiness (or potential happiness -- I had no idea what the future would bring), I was choosing it because I wanted to model for my child that it was better to leave a dysfunctional situation than to settle and feel dead inside.

 

Having said that, another thing that would be wonderful to model for your children is the process of coming together again and creating a stronger, more authentic marriage. And only you know whether that is possible for you. And if you don't know right now, you will, eventually -- you will work through it until you feel clear on what you want to do.

 

My husband never got to the point that yours did, with the major changes. There was a period in our relationship where it seemed like he was well on his way to that, and for about six months I had hope like I had not in years that things between us could truly work, that we could flourish as a couple, and not hobble along in bare survival. But that did not last, he did not truly integrate those changes into who he wanted to be as a person.

 

For me, even though I was not fully cognizant of it at the time, that was the point where I checked out of my marriage emotionally, although it took me another two years to leave. But I do know that I reached a point about a year before the end, where he could have turned into everything I wanted him to be, and it would not have mattered any more. There was too much anger and resentment and after years of desperately wanting more connection, more intimacy, more consideration, I no longer wanted anything from him. So I did feel the way you say you do, and for me it was after the point of no return.

 

Your therapists might be right but on the other hand there is a reason why your mind is reaching for counter-metaphors. Is he pressuring you to decide right now? If you are cautiously hopeful though not certain, why not keep trying to work on things and have an internal timeline you set for yourself, to check in with yourself. Three months, six months, whatever feels comfortable for you. That way you will take the pressure to decide right now, when you are obviously not ready to decide, off yourself, but also your psyche won't feel like you are signing up for an indefinitely continuing future of feeling the way you do.

[bluemood]

About his frustration with your quasi-commitment:

 

He needs to know that you are committed to him.

 

Commitment to your marriage is commitment to him.

 

If you can't make that commitment, your marriage is unsafe to him.

 

Either you're in or you're out.

 

 

I understand the logic... I think my hangup with committing myself to him is the desire to feel love and happiness. I'm not sure I've ever really felt that with him. Content, comfortable, sure, but not love and happiness, not like what I felt toward the OM.

 

My therapist explains that I won't be able to feel love and happiness towards my husband until I feel the emotional connection. And I won't feel that until we work through all this pain.

 

This is why I'm committed to doing the work. Because I have hope that I can learn to love my husband.

 

But I won't commit to the relationship because of my fear that I won't be able to feel love even after the work is done. And I think it isn't fair for him to ask me to make a promise that I'm not sure I can keep. It feels more honest for me to be on the fence than to say I'm "all in" when, clearly, I'm not.

[bluemood]

 

From a husband's point of view, it is important, because if you do not commit to the relationship, the marriage, he see this as doomed before you both start the hard work to fix the issues. He wants to know if you want to stay with him, and if you want to try and get back the love and trust you both once had.

 

 

This is my sticking point. I feel like our relationship was built on a foundation of lies, because of something that happened in the very beginning. I don't think I ever trusted my husband because of that. I'm not sure if I loved him. I'm trying to learn to do those things now. I feel like we are "buildling" from nothing. Starting over from nothing. If we had just met, would I even like this guy? We get along well as friends, maybe that's all it's ever been?

 

When... when did I love and feel loved by him at the same time? It's possible I'm just not able to love or feel love. But I love my kids, and they love me. My therapist says that's proof that I can love. But she also says that I didn't really love the OM. that I loved the fantasy of who I thought he was. Maybe so, but that seems to be the only way I really experience love (aside from my kids). In fantasy.

[68_f100]

Been down this road. Had two kids around the same age. Wife stayed home and I worked and did what I wanted. Went on for about 7 years and she had an EA with an ex that started on facebook. Talk about a wakeup call. I did exactly what your H is doing now. Put my wife and kids before me. Did what I needed to do to be a father and husband and not a paycheck. Problem for me was the EA. I couldn't get past it. I never believed it was just an EA. Even went to the point of a polygraph. She passed with flying colors. Little to late at that point. Damage was done and she didn't want to deal with it anymore. I loved her more the day she left than I ever had. I still regret acting like I did and have changed my life quite a bit. Even though it was to late it wasn't just a phase. Your H may have finally figured out what he has been missing. If he is anything like me he isn't real smart about some things. Selfish guys don't always see the big picture. Sometimes it takes a huge wakeup call to get us on the right track. If your EA was truly just that and nothing more I would make sure he has no doubts about it. You don't want questions in the back of his mind. It will drive a person crazy. I'm not saying any of this is your fault. It's shared blame in every marriage but I am sure he felt the same way you did. If you want to work things out with him then commit and do it. If your constantly 2nd guessing him and his motives then get out now.

[pennycharity]

I have been married now for 15 years to a man 18 years my senior. He is loving, but I began to feel he was painting by numbers when we were in bed.

 

I met a very dominant man who brought me to life in bed.

 

When my husband learned (very soon after my relationship started) he was fearful, but I told him I was not leaving, but needed more.

 

My husband is like my best friend or younger brother and the other man is much more of a father figure. My husband could see how happy and alive I became with Jack in my life, so he encouraged me to continue.

 

This made me love my husband more. I have two very different feelings of love for these very different men. I feel more motherly towards my husband and womanly towards Jack.

 

This has been going on for more than 7 years, so I guess we are over the hump. I have sex with both men, quite regularly which is very rewarding to me both emotionally and physically. My husband likes to watch me when I am with Jack, so maybe some cuckolding is going on.

 

I felt very ashamed I was so wanton, but recently read a book called Sex at Dawn: prehistoric origins of modern sexuality. It seems we women are designed to be promiscuous. I work on making sure my husband feels secure in his relationship with me. I think this has been the key for us making our marriage work.

 

So often women think,"If I have sex, it can only be with one man." Now I know I can love two men, love them differently and my job is to be loving, especially to my husband.

 

Penny

[Darren Steez]

I have been married now for 15 years to a man 18 years my senior. He is loving, but I began to feel he was painting by numbers when we were in bed.

 

I met a very dominant man who brought me to life in bed.

 

When my husband learned (very soon after my relationship started) he was fearful, but I told him I was not leaving, but needed more.

 

My husband is like my best friend or younger brother and the other man is much more of a father figure. My husband could see how happy and alive I became with Jack in my life, so he encouraged me to continue.

 

This made me love my husband more. I have two very different feelings of love for these very different men. I feel more motherly towards my husband and womanly towards Jack.

 

This has been going on for more than 7 years, so I guess we are over the hump. I have sex with both men, quite regularly which is very rewarding to me both emotionally and physically. My husband likes to watch me when I am with Jack, so maybe some cuckolding is going on.

 

I felt very ashamed I was so wanton, but recently read a book called Sex at Dawn: prehistoric origins of modern sexuality. It seems we women are designed to be promiscuous. I work on making sure my husband feels secure in his relationship with me. I think this has been the key for us making our marriage work.

 

So often women think,"If I have sex, it can only be with one man." Now I know I can love two men, love them differently and my job is to be loving, especially to my husband.

 

Penny

 

This is relevent to this thread how?

[SummerDreams]

Sometimes when I am at a crossroads I look at other people's lives who are better and worse than mine. In your situation the better life would be to be in love with your husband, not have all these bad memories, to live in a perfect family without the bad backround. The worse life would be to have no husband at all, raise your kids alone, your ex husband being an absent father, having to have two jobs to manage financially, your personal life being total zero, and so on. Or it could be that your husband was actually there but he is an alcoholic, he verbally abuses you and the kids, the kids have problems at school and so on. When I Imagine the better situation I feel sad, why can't I be like this? But when I imagine the worse situation I just bless my luck that I'm not in this bad position. It all comes down to you deciding what is more important for you in your life; can you give a little more time to your relationship with your husband for your kids' sake and for your future possible happiness? Are you really sure that if you divorce him your life will be better and you'll be happier? Will your kids be happier? Freedom and running away from huge problems does not equal happiness. It takes a lot of time and therapy to be able to say, now I'm ready to move on. It needs a lot of work with yourself. The situations you have in your past with your husband are cruel and I'm sorry that you had to go through them. But, and I know it sounds stupid, there are always worse situations. I know we people are self centered and want only the best for ourself, but lets have a reality check sometimes. There is so much suffering and pain in the world and sometimes our huge problems are not that huge anymore.

 

If I were to suggest what you should do, I'd suggest you give a little more time to your marriage and family. Give it two years and if you still feel the same, then walk away without guilt. But do what is best for your kids. If the kids have the chance to have a good father, don't take it away from them lightheartedly.

[Hardgrind]

Bluemood,

 

 

I am a husband. We have no children. While our marriage was not perfect, I did not think it was a bad one. About two years ago my wife reconnected with an old boyfriend. We had been married for about nine years at that point. Over a period of four months an emotional affair developed between them. Then it went physical and she withdrew from our marriage in ways she still doesn't recognize or admit. I suspected the affair almost immediately but finally found proof after an additional four months. We had a D-Day. She said she wanted to be with me. For about four days she did and said all the right things. I did everything I could to woo her and make our marriage as attractive to her as I could.

 

 

But almost immediately she started back tracking. She could not or would not cut off contact with the other man. Instead of changing her behavior she just got better at hiding the evidence from me. I caught her in two major lies about where she was. I stopped competing and wooing her and started distancing myself to protect myself. This made her very unhappy because she was really enjoying having her cake and eating it too. Finally I decided I wanted a trial separation. This lasted for almost two months. We went NC with each other but she continued her relationship with her boyfriend. At the end of the trial separation I asked her if she was going to end all contact with him and she said no. I asked for a divorce. This was a year after the physical affair began.

 

 

Today it is almost a year later. I will not kid you, it has been a rough journey. I have been working with an IC to help me through this and she has been wonderful. We have filed for divorce but it has not yet been granted. We are living in different states. I am healed today and a better and happier person. I no longer am tormented with thoughts about my STBXW and her affair. I no longer get angry when I think about her or talk to her.

 

 

I have met a wonderful woman. We are not really dating at this point but we have become very close and our friendship has been very helpful to both of us. She is also in the process of going through a divorce. I can see the pain and self esteem damage that she is suffering from and I am doing everything I can to help her heal. I also tell her frequently about the positive effect she has had on my life and my healing. We have similar religious background and life experiences. We have similar philosophies about life. I hope we have a future together as man and wife, but if things don't work out that way, I am thankful for the friendship that we do have.

 

 

Bottom line is I feel I did everything I possibly could to reconcile with my wife after her affair. I probably stayed on that path a little too long, but I have no doubts that I gave it my best effort. I am now in a position of strength for moving forward with the rest of my life and I know the best is yet to come.

 

 

If your husband is not nurturing you and your marriage, and is not willing to learn how to do this, it probably is time for you to move on with your life. From my personal experience you can do the heavy lifting for a few months without any reciprocity from your partner, but you can't live the rest of your life this way and stay a healthy person.

[Hardgrind]

Bluemood, to follow up you need to decide whether your husbands recent efforts are real or whether they are meant to keep stringing you along. Words are easy. Take a close look at what is happening in your marriage.

 

 

Do his actions match his words? Does your gut tell you the same thing your eyes and your brain are telling you? Hopefully the answers to both questions are yes and you can have a good or great marriage going forward. If either answer is no, you have hard questions to ask.

[Confused48]

Blue mood,

 

I do have a similar tale of woe. Married for 10+ years. Together for a few more. Two young children. I'm the BS though.

 

I thought we had a pretty typical marriage. Not fairy book but not terrible by any stretch. Problems with money, kids, the usual.

 

When we met there was tremendous love, infatuation, fireworks. There always was and still is some of this when we both try to be in the moment. Sex never got old or routine for us.

 

I sensed trouble. Insisted on MC. WS was like you, conflict avoidant. MC never did any good.

 

On Dday and for a long time after, WS did a lot of blame shifting. Like you. WS expected me to do all the heavy lifting. More failed MC and I started to wake up.

 

We are still together and getting on better than during the A. Still express love. Still feel close. However we are more stuck together than together by choice. Stuck for all the reason you said you felt trapped.

 

At least I'm no longer under any illusion that WS and I are "in love," whatever that means. I'm no longer blaming myself for WS lack of character and morals. I'm no longer doing any heavy lifting. I care no more for this relationship than WS does. Not much at all. Just comfort and security.

[jnel921]

As a BS,The last thing I would ever expect to hear from my WH, is him telling me how I should have been the woman I am today before the A. That would be blame shifting. I didn't make him do anything. He took a dive in it all by himself.

 

Own what you did. Seriously, infidelity turned our world upside down. Which do you think is worse?

 

Appreciate that your H wants to try. If you really cant get over your AP then go be with him. Your H can be a better man to someone else.