MM here; my affair

[N2053]

I originally posted this in the "loving two women" thread. One of the members suggested I start a new thread re my story. Here goes...

 

In my experience it’s possible to love two people.

 

I am a MM and have been having an affair for about 6 months. I work with the OW and we were good friends for years before the affair. I already loved her as a friend, so once we started the affair it was easy to start loving her romantically as well.

 

I’m not making excuses, but I began the affair at a time when I was particularly unhappy in my marriage. My W had given up in a lot of ways and I was at the end of my rope with her. We have two small children so divorce is not an option I would take lightly.

 

Again, not an excuse - just context.

 

The OW’s marriage was also in dire straits when we began. Her husband was very abusive and a month into our affair she left him. Not for me, for herself. Though no doubt her involvement with me gave her the strength to do so. She also has two children.

 

When we started out we had naive notions that it would be a very short-term, physical thing. However, we soon fell in love and I believe a lot of that has to do with our prior friendship.

 

I love this woman, and yes, I do love my wife. I’ve been with her for 20 years. It’s very presumptuous to say that a person who cheats doesn’t love their spouse. Yes, they are doing wrong to their spouse, and yes, they are being abusive, but it doesn’t mean they don’t love them.

 

Obviously it’s disrespectful. The only thing I can say is I don’t feel disrespectful. I’m not getting off on being deceitful. I’m not getting pleasure from the notion that I’m “eating my cake” etc. But I know I'm being completely selfish. There are many, many moments where I feel deep shame and guilt. And it sucks having to sneak around, it makes my once-simple life a lot more complicated than I bargained for.

 

But this is the situation I’ve gotten myself into, and it’s not so easy to just stop. I feel a responsibility now to the OW, who I also love, and I don’t think it would be right for me to break her heart. In fact, I’ve kind of resigned myself to the idea that if anyone is going to break it off it has to be the OW. And she will eventually, I’m sure of it.. And it’s going to hurt like hell.... but it wouldn’t be right for me to do so.

[N2053]

why are mm in affairs so passive?

 

Not trying to beat you up, but the time to worry about not breaking her heart would have been before you started the a. I can tell you from experience that no matter who does the 'ending', she will be crushed. Is it right for you to keep dragging it on until she finds the strength to break it off, knowing it only gets harder as time goes on?

 

***

 

i'm sure people will beat on me but it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel. What i'm doing is wrong, there's no real way to argue around it.

 

I'm not dragging it on. We've talked about the end of this to death. I have suggested many times that i should break it off for her own good. She is insistent that i not do that. I think it would be cruel and cold and paternalistic to do that. Yes, she will be crushed if she ends it - but at least she'll be in the driver's seat. There is a difference between being the one who leaves and being the one who is left.

 

***

 

like i said, it wasn't my intention to beat you up.

 

She is waiting in hopes that something will change.

 

By the time she has had enough to break it off, it won't really matter who is doing the breaking. It takes an incredible amount of strength to walk away from someone you love, and being in the driver's seat doesn't make that pain any less. Although being tossed to the curb by someone who supposedly loves you isn't fun either. . .

 

i think the main difference is that if i break it off, it's something that's out of her control and is being done to her. If she breaks it off, it's something that she has considered and thought about long and hard before doing it and it's on her terms. Even though it will be painful, it will be something that she's braced for. I'll be the one who is caught flat-footed and rejected.

 

She has already told me explicitly that if and when it ends she prefer it be on her terms. I know the arguments for why i should ignore her wishes but - at least at this stage - i'm not capable of doing it.

[minimariah]

i just have one question - are you in love with BOTH of these women, or only one? do you ROMANTICALLY love both of these women or only one?

Edited April 22, 2015 by minimariah

[obtuseedge]

OP, I was in the same boat as you. Read my post history. I had a 6 month affair, and my wife found out a month and a half ago. Since then I've changed offices, started counseling and have essentially gone NC with my xAP.

 

I understand what you are saying. You love both women, but are at different stages of a relationship with either one.

 

I have been working on my marriage. But there are times that I deeply miss my xAP.

 

It is a heartbreaking situation. I know what it feels like to get caught up in it. I do feel some relief that the situation's ended sooner than later though.

[N2053]

i just have one question - are you in love with BOTH of these women, or only one? do you ROMANTICALLY love both of these women or only one?

 

I love them both. Obviously, my relationship with W is "deeper" because it is founded upon almost two decades of shared experience.

 

My love for the OW is more passionate and more of an "in love" feeling but that's only because it's new. But I already loved OW as a friend before we started the affair. If I wasn't married, this is the kind of woman I would settle down with, she's a quality person and we're very, very compatible. She's my type, as is W.

 

Which one do I love more? I really don't think it works that way...

 

If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose my W ofcourse. We have a lot invested in one another - our time together, raising children, and so forth. For these reasons I feel a sense of responsibility to my W that I don't feel towards the OW, so the W would win-out and OW knows this.

[N2053]

OP, I was in the same boat as you. Read my post history. I had a 6 month affair, and my wife found out a month and a half ago. Since then I've changed offices, started counseling and have essentially gone NC with my xAP.

 

I understand what you are saying. You love both women, but are at different stages of a relationship with either one.

 

I have been working on my marriage. But there are times that I deeply miss my xAP.

 

It is a heartbreaking situation. I know what it feels like to get caught up in it. I do feel some relief that the situation's ended sooner than later though.

 

How has your wife dealt with the situation? Is that being worked on through counseling?

[casey.lives]

if ever loved two people,not likely, im extremely loyal, i would ask myself who i respect most and use that factor to pick one. Love is worthless without respect -for me.

[wizer]

You don't think it would be right to break the heart of a woman who didn't give a rat's ass about her lover's wife? It would be up to the OW to break up the affair, because you'll never end it yourself?

 

Your priorities are rather.. backwards.

 

Are your wedding vows worth nothing?

 

Are your wife's wishes and your wife's self respect worth nothing?

[obtuseedge]

How has your wife dealt with the situation? Is that being worked on through counseling?

 

A multitude of emotions, from anger to insecurity to hopelessness to wanting to work things out.

 

It's been a roller coaster. I've been doing IC.

 

We are currently taking it day by day. We read relationship books and try to implement different ideas. TBH, it's been difficult reconnecting, and frankly, she feels differently about me now even though she says that if I really do change, she is willing to forgive me. So it's been hard. A lot of uncertainty in the air.

[N2053]

The blunt truth I think is that many people, many of them men, are not naturally inclined to monogamy. Marital contracts, obligations to others (the spouse, children etc), and societal pressures are the "thin blue line" that prevents cheating... but if the fires at home aren't kept going, it can be easy to fall prey to your own weakness and temptation.

 

And then i think the main issue is - who are you being tempted by? It's one thing to be tempted by the hot little secretary down the hall, where it's just a physical, lustful thing. In that scenario there's a lot of guilty pleasure and things end quickly. But when it's a good, solid woman that's tempting you... its hard when you're in it to see it as this great evil.

 

This is why it's hard to understand - how can he lie? how can he cheat? how does he do it?

 

Because - at least for me - it doesn't feel wrong. Not even the way that drinking too much feels wrong, or taking up smoking would feel wrong. Here I am with this wonderful person... not some crazy, dumb bimbo.. not some prostitute... a quality woman, who has a kind heart and is intelligent, funny, and is a friend to me and loves me. It's very hard to see that love as wrong.

[N2053]

if ever loved two people,not likely, im extremely loyal, i would ask myself who i respect most and use that factor to pick one. Love is worthless without respect -for me.

 

You are a better person than me.

[Satu]

What does the word, 'love,' mean to you?

 

When you say you love someone, what is it that you are experiencing?

[N2053]

You don't think it would be right to break the heart of a woman who didn't give a rat's ass about her lover's wife? It would be up to the OW to break up the affair, because you'll never end it yourself?

 

Your priorities are rather.. backwards.

 

Are your wedding vows worth nothing?

 

Are your wife's wishes and your wife's self respect worth nothing?

 

You are a better person than me.

[N2053]

What does the word, 'love,' mean to you?

 

When you say you love someone, what is it that you are experiencing?

 

I don't think I'm "experiencing" anything. Yes, at first, when things are new, there is that chemical reaction that you can feel.. but once that's gone, it's gone. What's left over is affection, friendship and commitment.

 

I'm always going to be there for the people I love. Even if W and I divorced, I'd always be in her corner. That's what love is to me.

 

As I said, there's no denying what I'm doing is wrong. But it has very little to do with whether I love or not.

[minimariah]

I love them both. Obviously, my relationship with W is "deeper" because it is founded upon almost two decades of shared experience.

 

My love for the OW is more passionate and more of an "in love" feeling but that's only because it's new. But I already loved OW as a friend before we started the affair. If I wasn't married, this is the kind of woman I would settle down with, she's a quality person and we're very, very compatible. She's my type, as is W.

 

Which one do I love more? I really don't think it works that way...

 

If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose my W ofcourse. We have a lot invested in one another - our time together, raising children, and so forth. For these reasons I feel a sense of responsibility to my W that I don't feel towards the OW, so the W would win-out and OW knows this.

 

you dodged my question completelly - notice that i didn't ask you which one you loved more.

 

i asked you - are you in love with BOTH of these women & do you love both of these women ROMANTICALLY? it's a yes or no type of question and you didn't answer directly - that speaks volumes.

 

some things are simple but we sometimes choose to make them complicated because the truth might just be too much to handle.

 

and one more thing - you, most definitely, love one of them more than the other. they are 2 different people and your connection with them is different - that being said, it's impossible to love both of them equally. i'm sure you have a stronger love and connection with one of them.

 

it's that old simple question - if both of them were drowning and you were allowed to save only one, which one would you save?

Edited April 22, 2015 by minimariah

[N2053]

you dodged my question completelly.

 

i asked you - are you in love with BOTH of these women & do you love both of these women ROMANTICALLY? it's a yes or no type of question and it you didn't answer - that speaks volumes.

 

some things are simple but we sometimes choose to make them complicated because the truth might just be too much to handle.

 

and one more thing - you, most definitely, love one of them more than the other. like it or not.

 

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to dodge. I must be misunderstanding your question... yes, I love both of them, romantically.

 

I thought that was clear from the beginning. If you feel I'm not answering you completely, please ask your question in another way, thank you.

[norudder]

You are a better person than me.

 

Smart sinner.

[wizer]

You are a better person than me.

 

I'm not comparing myself to you, I just feel badly for your wife. She's the innocent party in all of this. Her only mistake was committing her life to you.

[ladydesigner]

The blunt truth I think is that many people, many of them men, are not naturally inclined to monogamy. Marital contracts, obligations to others (the spouse, children etc), and societal pressures are the "thin blue line" that prevents cheating... but if the fires at home aren't kept going, it can be easy to fall prey to your own weakness and temptation.

 

And then i think the main issue is - who are you being tempted by? It's one thing to be tempted by the hot little secretary down the hall, where it's just a physical, lustful thing. In that scenario there's a lot of guilty pleasure and things end quickly. But when it's a good, solid woman that's tempting you... its hard when you're in it to see it as this great evil.

 

This is why it's hard to understand - how can he lie? how can he cheat? how does he do it?

 

Because - at least for me - it doesn't feel wrong. Not even the way that drinking too much feels wrong, or taking up smoking would feel wrong. Here I am with this wonderful person... not some crazy, dumb bimbo.. not some prostitute... a quality woman, who has a kind heart and is intelligent, funny, and is a friend to me and loves me. It's very hard to see that love as wrong.

 

Oh boy the bolded I feel are big issues. First of all why is it up to your W to keep the fires going? You don't think she might feel the same way. If there was another man who was just her type paying her that special attention she no longer gets from you you don't think she would want to experience this "love" too? You sound very selfish to me.

 

And if an A doesn't feel wrong in terms of how you see your wife and what you are doing to her, well you have your head in the sand.

 

You will understand the full entirety of what you have done only when you see the pain on your wife's face after discovering you are in love with someone else too. Until then I'm afraid you are blinded by the A and are in limbo.

[N2053]

You will understand the full entirety of what you have done only when you see the pain on your wife's face after discovering you are in love with someone else too. Until then I'm afraid you are blinded by the A and are in limbo.

 

Yes, you're probably right.

[Carm]

The blunt truth I think is that many people, many of them men, are not naturally inclined to monogamy. Marital contracts, obligations to others (the spouse, children etc), and societal pressures are the "thin blue line" that prevents cheating... but if the fires at home aren't kept going, it can be easy to fall prey to your own weakness and temptation.

 

And then i think the main issue is - who are you being tempted by? It's one thing to be tempted by the hot little secretary down the hall, where it's just a physical, lustful thing. In that scenario there's a lot of guilty pleasure and things end quickly. But when it's a good, solid woman that's tempting you... its hard when you're in it to see it as this great evil.

 

This is why it's hard to understand - how can he lie? how can he cheat? how does he do it?

 

Because - at least for me - it doesn't feel wrong. Not even the way that drinking too much feels wrong, or taking up smoking would feel wrong. Here I am with this wonderful person... not some crazy, dumb bimbo.. not some prostitute... a quality woman, who has a kind heart and is intelligent, funny, and is a friend to me and loves me. It's very hard to see that love as wrong.

 

 

Here I am myself, a good, solid woman who attracts many men. Tons men at work have come onto me....as well a few married clients over the years that I had to drop because they were pushing boundaries. All this time I was single, not married, and no boyfriend in the picture.

 

 

This is where I have a problem with your story, in no way, would I be interested in being the OW. Not only because I do not want scraps of a relationships, & not because I feel I deserve a man who could give me his whole heart but the main reason is that as a woman I would feel incredibly guilty doing that to another woman (even if I didn't know her).

 

 

This is what a good, quality woman is....one who understands boundaries.

 

 

I'm sorry but I disagree with your description of your so called "good woman".

[N2053]

Here I am myself, a good, solid woman who attracts many men. Tons men at work have come onto me....as well a few married clients over the years that I had to drop because they were pushing boundaries. All this time I was single, not married, and no boyfriend in the picture.

 

 

This is where I have a problem with your story, in no way, would I be interested in being the OW. Not only because I do not want scraps of a relationships, & not because I feel I deserve a man who could give me his whole heart but the main reason is that as a woman I would feel incredibly guilty doing that to another woman (even if I didn't know her).

 

 

This is what a good, quality woman is....one who understands boundaries.

 

 

I'm sorry but I disagree with your description of your so called "good woman".

 

It sounds like you are a much better person than my OW.

 

Godspeed.

[minimariah]

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to dodge. I must be misunderstanding your question... yes, I love both of them, romantically.

 

I thought that was clear from the beginning. If you feel I'm not answering you completely, please ask your question in another way, thank you.

 

that's okay... okay. i do think you CAN love more than one person at a time so i do believe you. what are your plans for future?

 

how does your OW feel in this?

how would your W react if she found out and how would you react if she gave you an ultimatum?

 

how would you react if your OW decided to date others?

[norudder]

Can I ask what your values are? Both personally for your life as well as for a relationship?

[N2053]

that's okay... okay. i do think you CAN love more than one person at a time so i do believe you. what are your plans for future?

 

how does your OW feel in this?

how would your W react if she found out and how would you react if she gave you an ultimatum?

 

how would you react if your OW decided to date others?

 

how does OW feel - she feels that she's in a no-win situation. The affair was useful for her to get out of her abusive marriage, but it took on a life of its own.

 

W reaction/ultimatum - she would be devastated. If she gave me an ultimatum, I'd have no choice at this time but to stop the A. But like I said, my marriage with W has its own issues... if things dont improve eventually it may be over on its own accord.

 

OW dating others - I wouldn't like it in the least!