Past threesome affecting marriage now

[Lion Heart]

Hi aps, for once I disagree with a POV of one of my "LS heroes" but I am a woman after all.

 

Aps I think its a case of issues with "boundaries" in your WH case at least!

 

Ok so the way I see it is this: decades ago, you guys had a LTR for 3y. You discovered that your bf was dating others, so the LTR was altered to an OPEN LTR. Actually due to HIS promiscuity initially. Right?

 

Ok so you move with it and decide to do whatever you choose too. And I agree. Why not? So you did some things sexually that were all in fun and you still regarded your bf anyway since your LTR was open. His initial choice.

 

Then you M. Ok that means promising to be faithful till death do you part. Am I right so far?

 

20y later H decides to have an A. Of his own accord and without telling you (again) that he'd changed the M to an OPEN M.

 

Then your WH decides to blame shift his A (oh let me think AS MOST CHEATERS TRY TO) and also smoke screen with "oh but my nightmares of you in 3somes" or some such BS.

 

NOW 30y LATER HE decides you "should" give him a threesome? I mean wtf?

 

Can you see what I see?

 

G** forbid anyone asked me to behave like my 30y younger self.

 

This WH has OH so many issues! None of which you have, so don't allow him to blame you one dot.

 

Ofcourse WH won't see a C, they'd want to shake him silly and say WAKE UP MAN! You nor your W is 30y younger. She's not a prostitute you can order about for your sexual whims with others. Get your head out of your ar** and grow the f*** up!

This woman is your wife. And your A was all on you!

As you can tell I'd be a great MC .... not!

 

Your WH does NOT want to hear the TRUTH from a qualified professional now does he? And why not? I'll tell you WHY NOT because he's WAAAAYYY happier punishing the crap out of you for something he's never had the balls or stamina to do. And I'll repeat NOT YOUR PROBLEM!

 

You obviously love this WH but how he's punished you for you to worry about how to tell him you don't want a threesome. You do it like this: "I DON'T WANT A THREESOME!!!!" Not now. Not ever.

 

"If that's your only goal now WH then knock yourself out with 2 other chicks but just know that being unfaithful to me TWICE is deal breaker for sure. I'm telling you my boundaries for this M you've already overstepped. And while you're at it, take your blame and shove it where the sun don't shine. You decided to make our M open, but you forgot to tell me! Hence it's labelled as "infidelity". "

 

Your WH is jealous NOW that you experienced what he's never had. Too bad. Not your problem.

 

Gosh there are some mind-f***ers about.

 

Get your head straight aps. You may need some IC to see that what you are thinking and feeling about this whole situation is correct. IMHO ofcourse.

 

Best wishes

Lion Heart.

[darkmoon]

you are married and making him unhappy, this is ok, if you want to be in the right, and til he looks elsewhere

 

it is not his depression it is a need for a wife to stop risking losing him over his unhappness

[Mr Carson]

I have a couple of questions, his A did you actually catch him how did you find out? Are you positive there was an A do you know who the other woman is?

 

 

I guess what I’m getting at is, it would be ballsy on his part but was there really an A? Or is he just trying to punish you by telling you because you won’t do a threesome with him?

 

 

The fact that he said he had the opportunity and didn’t go through with it says a lot. Do you know for a fact that he had a chance for a threesome, it is ironic that the thing he wants the most with you is what he’s telling you he could have done.

 

 

What oldshirt said “ In his deep inner recesses of his mind, that tells him that the other guy was "better" than him and that you were more into him and more turned on by him and more willing to please him. That is a bitter pill for your H to swallow.” May be true.

 

 

A man wants to feel like he is giving his W or GF the best sex she’s ever experienced. My wife had many BF’s she was dating 4 guys casually when I met her, did she sleep with them all…I don’t know? When I married her I knew she had many lovers but so did I. After we were married for a while I started to ask questions about some of the guys, things like were they good, size, cut uncut that kind of thing. I was questing if I was enough or was I keeping her satisfied. All she would give me was, I love you, I’m with you, your everything I need and I’m happy that had to be enough for me and it is.

 

 

 

The reason I say you are the eye of his storm is he supposedly balked at the chance with A partner but still pushes with you says it’s all about you is he keeping you satisfied are you truly satisfied with him? I’m beginning to question if he even really wants a threesome now,(please don’t)but I can’t help but wonder if out of the blue you surprised him with the opportunity what he would do? I’ll say it again as others have this is not your fault, you don’t need to feel guilty about your past.

[Lion Heart]

I have a couple of questions, his A did you actually catch him how did you find out? Are you positive there was an A do you know who the other woman is?

 

 

I guess what I’m getting at is, it would be ballsy on his part but was there really an A? Or is he just trying to punish you by telling you because you won’t do a threesome with him?

 

 

The fact that he said he had the opportunity and didn’t go through with it says a lot. Do you know for a fact that he had a chance for a threesome, it is ironic that the thing he wants the most with you is what he’s telling you he could have done.

 

 

What oldshirt said “ In his deep inner recesses of his mind, that tells him that the other guy was "better" than him and that you were more into him and more turned on by him and more willing to please him. That is a bitter pill for your H to swallow.” May be true.

 

 

A man wants to feel like he is giving his W or GF the best sex she’s ever experienced. My wife had many BF’s she was dating 4 guys casually when I met her, did she sleep with them all…I don’t know? When I married her I knew she had many lovers but so did I. After we were married for a while I started to ask questions about some of the guys, things like were they good, size, cut uncut that kind of thing. I was questing if I was enough or was I keeping her satisfied. All she would give me was, I love you, I’m with you, your everything I need and I’m happy that had to be enough for me and it is.

 

 

 

The reason I say you are the eye of his storm is he supposedly balked at the chance with A partner but still pushes with you says it’s all about you is he keeping you satisfied are you truly satisfied with him? I’m beginning to question if he even really wants a threesome now,(please don’t)but I can’t help but wonder if out of the blue you surprised him with the opportunity what he would do? I’ll say it again as others have this is not your fault, you don’t need to feel guilty about your past.

 

 

I think here ^^^^ we have a clear cut illustration of Venus and Mars. It demonstrates how differently the sexes MAY think in matters of M and sexual relationships.

 

Seeing this divide ie ls members of differing sexes pondering the motivations of OP and her WH is nothing we could truly unpack for them. This is why MC would be most beneficial if both partners were committed to being open and honest in the MC.

 

I'm a woman and have had a number of sexual partners. My acceptance of a M proposal and the decline of them too did not depend on whether the man's P was cut or uncut etc etc. For me it was the "whole package" deal. Our compatibility on many levels. .. or not. Sure sex was a major factor for me but nowhere near down to the nitty gritty of things. More the enjoyment of sex as a couple.

 

I understand from male LS members, of whom I've very much respected their posts, think in many ways the same as me but as for this thread we seem to be on almost opposite poles in some critical junctions.

 

I am no more jealous of my H sexual exploits before he met me as I am jealous of his calf muscles. I understand things are exactly that for my H now. TBH it's a bit late to ponder whether activities or physical features of our spouses that we knew about BEFORE our M, become major issues in our M decades after our wedding day. IMO I think it's quite ridiculous to create mountains out of mole hills whilst ignoring the motivating factors of WHY they are issues NOW.

 

I think those little issues are merely symptoms of much bigger issues within the individual who has problems with it all.

This theory has been proven correct for my WH at least in IC.

And being "right" or "correct" is bl**dy horrible for me. It's never been about being right or correct or winning an argument. Ever.

I'm solution driven. I'm happy to be totally wrong every time if we could solve the issues.

 

This is where I think OP is. She just wants a solution to these pressing major issues her WH has. Plus his pressure for her to involve a third party in their M and sex life when she clearly does not want that. But she does want to make her WH happy.

Maybe she just knows having a threesome WON'T necessarily make him happy nor may it stop there, nor would any of them KNOW where this could lead their M. The M could be going straight down the gurgler anyway. It seems so as H is now WH and STILL making demands. As WH I think he's way out of line but that's IMO.

 

H is already wayward and now he wants W to be too. He's now "guilting" her into it. There are limits and boundaries that many spouses are NOT willing to cross. Loving someone means you regard them and not make someone perform sexual acts that may degrade them even if they participated in it 30y ago. If the love hasn't disappeared then the respect seems to be all but gone.

 

IMO

Lion Heart.

[aps61]

Guys, I am at work and can't really write much. I will when I get back home.

Meanwhile you all are giving me a lot to think about and figure out.

Thanks

[oldshirt]

Is that not HIS problem to reconcile and not the OPs? He is the one now obsessed with her threesomes. He had 30+ years to go out there and pursue his dream, if indeed it was his dream, (he previously reneged on an opportunity), so why is it NOW an issue? And why is it her problem?

 

In the example you quoted, it is not up to that man to start being ambitious again surely, it is up to the woman to accept the unambitious man SHE decided to marry.

 

It's something they BOTH need to work together and reconcile somehow.

 

It's not all on her shoulders by any means and I didn't mean to imply that it was if it came across that way.

 

 

And once again please understand i am not implying that she should engage in any sex acts with him that she is not ok with.

 

I am just sharing a male perspective on the issue to give an indication of where his mind may be at.

 

He has a lot of baggage and issues of his own to address, but at the end of the day if they want to have a healthy marriage, both of them will need to roll up their sleeves and put in the effort.

[oldshirt]

 

In the example you quoted, it is not up to that man to start being ambitious again surely, it is up to the woman to accept the unambitious man SHE decided to marry.

 

 

You are absolutely correct. She "should" accept him for who and what he is now. You are right on the money.

 

 

......but the reality is any woman in that position will still feel a degree of resentment and frustration that he was all that for someone else but not for her.

 

As I said in my first post, we can all list a thousand valid and logical reasons why people shouldn't feel the way they feel but it doesn't change the way they really do.

[aps61]

I can see that a big number of people agrees with me at least in one thing. He does need some counselling. Both for the marriage and for the depression. We actually did start marriage counselling although I knew it probably wouldn't get anywhere because I know how difficult it is to open up even to people he knows and cares about, much less to a stranger. The first two sessions actually led me to think that it might be ok, but then the third one hit him hard and he stopped showing interest in going.

The sessions happened before his father passed away and things got worse after. The thing that hurt him and made him feel he didn't want to go again seems to have come about because he is very sensitive to what people tell him. We had discussed some of his behaviour that started when he found out he' s father would be passing very soon, and how it was normal for him to feel down/depressed about it. He had explained that he was taking his frustrations and fears on me by withdrawing, being constantly irritated with everyone but taking it on me no matter what irritated him, suddenly starting to have different standards on which based on the same event he would react as if it was ok or normal for him and them completely over react if I had done the same thing - ex: broken glass....him: laugh it off, make a joke, it happens - me : You don't pay attention, who would brake a glass like that? , You did it to upset me didn't you? - all of those things only started happening once he got the news of his father, and had never happened before. The counsellor was a bit surprised by the difference between first and second sessions and the third one where he seemed to be very negative, hard, not even sure if he was up to try and fix anything, and the way he was putting some things on my back and I believe that he might to try and shake him off. He said that some things he was doing bordered emotional abuse even if he didn't realize it. He had already admitted that he was doing it, however having a label put into it suddenly made things much more complicated for him. Meanwhile his father's death at that point didn't help and he fell in depression, with anxiety attacks, the night mares, and suddenly with all about the threesome 30 years ago coming back again.

Life for the past 2 1/2months has been an yo-yo with days where he seems calm, playful, loving and caring, almost just what his normal self used to be, and then Mr. Hyde's days where everything is gloomy, he hates himself, seems to feel extremely guilty about the dating 30 years ago - which I am not even upset about , it's been 30 years and we were on different sides of the Atlantic for a long, long time- and the affair as well, reacting to things very strongly where the reaction is way too overboard for whatever caused it. Every single negative emotion being extreme and making the next one even worse. Yet he does not want to admit he is depressed or get any help for it.

I went trough a time of depression myself and I can recognize many of his reactions, it's just that other than be there and be supportive I can't really do anything else.

[aps61]

oldshirt - being devil's advocate is something that I try a lot to see if I can understand better.

I understand the interest and curiosity in threesomes and that most men - all I'll guess - and women as well would like to at least experiment with it even if once. And yes, I did it with someone else and not with him. The reasoning that I would have done it because the other guy was "better" than him is something that I am willing to understand from his point of view although it doesn't make sense from mine which goes like this: First it really wasn't a gift to the other guy in the sense that if anything it was a gift to me - to my own curiosity about it -, second it wasn't a matter of anyone being better or worse in any way, actually if we were to compare, things with my husband were/are definitely better even without the threesomes. And I certainly wasn't more into the other guy, I was just kind of hurt and insecure of where our relationship was going and the other guy was there. Long term relationships can be complicated and one never knows how the story will unfold.

Of course my reasoning and his reasoning ends up being completely different, I get it. I can even get that throughout all those years the thoughts were there, even if compartmentalized somehow. He is taking all of it personally when in reality it wasn't and it is difficult for him to separate things .

Now with the shock of his father's death and the compounding of all the stress we have been going through recently it all seemed to have come out. I still get it, just don't know how to help.

LOL your example about the money and lifestyle brought a smile because in reality I would be focusing and accepting what he was when I met him and not what he was before which had nothing to do with me or us. The thing is I am not really materialistic and money or lifestyle doesn't really mean much to me as long as I have enough for basics and some recreation that doesn't even need to be expensive so the example although understood did bring a smile. Now if you had used some emotional example of how he had been so attuned to the other girl's needs, or seemed to always know how to say the right things to her, nicely and thoughtfully finding the words and actions easily, and then not being able to do so with me, then I would probably "feel" the example But I understand what you mean.

The threesome-s where actually both varieties, although I didn't include that information when I told him. I didn't specify.

I understand what you're saying of him feeling that the people involved got more of my attention than him, although in reality obviously they didn't when we compare with the "attention" I've been giving him for the following 30 years. It's just that I prefer to give that attention to him only - I was never very good at multitasking it distracts me -.

My objection to the threesome is simple. Regardless of what I was thinking - or not - all those years ago I learned that I do prefer to give all my attention to the one person I really love and receive his attention fully. It is much more fulfilling to me. I realize I have my own insecurities too and a threesome might intensify them, and yes, that would scare me because it's not just an experiment at a young age with basically no responsibilities or things to worry about, but there is much more at stake. I wasn't expecting to have a life with those people involved and couldn't care less if I ever saw them again or not. I didn't worry about disappointing them, or hurting their feelings, or providing them with any loving relationship after the fact. It was a very selfish experience I guess and not one that I would bring into my marriage because my sexual relationship with my husband is not about either one of us being selfish, it's about sharing, enjoying and give together ( something that is a mix of good sex evidently but also all the things that make us a couple that are not sexual in the least but make us really like to be together and do things that make us feel good ). It will definitely feel like infidelity - specially after his affair. It would feel like betraying what we have together by adding someone with whom we didn't have those little things to add to the sex itself. Empty.

I understand that he might regret his "lack of wildness". But the truth is that at that time I had no idea of what he was doing. Could be very well experimenting what I experimented or even more. I didn't know since he didn't say and I had to find out he was dating by accident. MY imagination did fill the gaps and at that time it told me that I had no idea what he was doing with his dating, it could be anything.

Later in our married life, in his affair, he could have fulfilled his wish and in the end didn't, and I don't really understand that either.

Elaine - I think that what oldshirt meant was that we both need to work this out. I have been feeling guilty but I realize that this problem his is own and he needs to want to work it hopefully with at least some counselling. But I want things to work too, so I do believe we need to work together.

Lion Heart - you pretty much summed it up . But I do believe that no matter what issues were behind, his father's death did affect him strongly and has a lot to do with what is happening now. He sounds defeated and his self esteemed is suddenly extremely low. Everything seems dark and all things from the past came back.

I am going to counselling myself. But I can help/control only me.

Your second post is very close to the way I think and see things. From the things that would be important to you in accepting a marriage proposal to my feelings towards what my husband might have done with other people in his past before we met, or even before we got married.

darkmoon - I'm not really sure what you mean

Mr. Carson - Yes, there definitely was and affair that I kind of found out almost as it started and talk about coincidences, I actually run into them coming out of the elevator in the hotel where they meet a few times.( Long story that really confirms that no one goes around invisible. A friend of my mom was touring north america and stopped here and surprised me one day by calling me from the hotel. She had a letter and a small package that my mom had sent to me and I agreed to go pick it up there. ) I know the other woman as one of the nurses the worked in the same place he did.

And yes I also know that everything was set up for the threesome and he didn't go trough. Again it's a small world and one of the person's that was initially invited for it was someone that used to work with me. She backed off when she found out who he was but stayed in the loop "so to speak" so she knew who they had invited after and that it didn't happen. When she supplied in my school some time later she was under the impression we were separated because of it. In the end she told me what was in the plans. It was essentially the same thing he told me, so I believe it.

Interesting your question about me being truly satisfied with him. I am. He never seemed to doubt that before. Until now. Now he seems to be more insecure less sure. But nothing changed except the stress and what happened to his dad.

[aps61]

Mr. Carson, I had to submit before finished because it was time to leave for work.

Regarding satisfaction it was even more fun before all this happened because the kids are grown up, one is already not living at home even though close - Mom what's for dinner still happens - and the other one is not much at home so we were having a great time of freedom. I would say our sexual life was actually both more fun without the kids and also way more frequent which was great. Until his father got sicker.

Also I forgot to add because he only mentioned this bothering him last night he is feeling insecure because "things" don't seem to be working the way they used to. Well, I am not sure what to say. We're certainly not 20 anymore. But the way things were going if there was the odd pause here and there just because we might be over doing it, it didn't seem to come out as a big thing.We would just stop and make pancakes for a bit and come back to play after. Everything was back working again.

Now again because my brain works female instead of male, this might be a huge problem for him while I am not really seeing it like that.

I would understand it being a problem if it was not happening at all, or if it seemed like a "mechanical" problem but in reality it just seems that we were enjoying the freedom too much and overdoing things.... I don't know, I understand that in itself it's a very touchy and scary male thing but it only happened on repeats of repeat performance.. I would think that it's not that abnormal even in someone younger. And it didn't prevent us from having fun, just got us to pace ourselves a bit more...

[hudson701]

Wow, I can't believe a thread has been posted about this! OP, for the love of God, please read the following link about an almost identical situation for the man's perspective:

 

Saving the Best |

 

Your husband is bothered about one thing, and one thing only: your sexual best was never meant for him. That's what is eating him up inside. It's likely you will divorce. Again please read the link on the rational male above.

[aps61]

I confess that I would be really embarrassed if my best was something I did over 30 years ago in specific circumstances. I'd like to think that I've learned a few things along the way and that during the 30 years in my marriage I was able to top that "best" quite a few times over

 

Thank you for writing down the link, Hudson 701. I can see certain similarities in that story, but at the same thing I see too big differences. First I told my husband before we got married to give him the chance to think it over and only go ahead with the marriage thing if he felt he could deal with that.THere was no surprise/shock of finding anything out after marriage. Secondly, apart from the fact that I am not willing to add another person or persons in our sex life, I never withdrew sex from him in any other forms.We've enjoyed as many things as we were willing to experiment with and we've had fun with all of them.

 

That what happened that long ago could be considered my best is what surprises me even if I try seeing through a male perspective. Personally I would think about it as my least fulfilling experiences even with the extra people.

MY best came later as my husband and I got to learn more and more things about each other and we grew more and more confident of what we liked or didn't like, what we enjoyed and what we didn't and even the small simple things that we found out about each other that were immediate hits.

I'm open and always was to experiment and to be curious about doing things and enjoy things with my husband. Just not adding someone else into play.

 

To be honest and with due respect to the feelings of all men, specially the ones reading and answering this thread I am starting to feel the whole thing is as silly as some things I see happening with my kindergarten students. My husband' s past experiences before we got married are his. I have no problem with them. He might have had all this wild experiences but things that he did before we got married why would that be a huge problem for me. If anything I would probably be happy that he chose me instead of the nice people that shared themselves with him.

For 30 years we have been having a great time both sexually and not sexually and I've been showing him that I did "choose him" because it was with him that I enjoyed those things the most. I would think that that would trump the rest.

Yes he dreams of a threesome.So many people do. If having a threesome was the only goal of this marriage, then the whole marriage was a farce from day one. Because marriage is not about only one thing regardless of how much we want it. That's why compromises exist.

We really have to talk big time again, maybe in the weekend. This is becoming more like a soap opera. WE need to address his depression, he needs to really try counseling and we need to figure out what we want and if we want the same - hopefully - find out how we can work all this out and what we are willing to compromise on.

 

I need to stop feeling insecure and guilty,which doesn't mean that I am not there to support him and help him out. Just that I have to stop thinking about this as a personal failure.

Then we'll see how things will develop. Each one of us can be there for the other but we can control only ourselves not the other.

Thanks for all the answers I learned a lot of interesting things within this thread.

[hudson701]

Whilst he has this fantasy, it will never go away unfortunately, and speaking as a man, he will always see it as something you would never give him. As childish as it sounds, it is what it is. How you get passed that and make him forget, well, that will be difficult.

[elaine567]

I may want to live in a castle with a moat, other women get to live in a castle with a moat, why can't I get a castle and a moat?

If I want a castle and a moat then I will have to get myself into gear and make that dream come true.

If my husband doesn't want a castle or refuses to be part of my dream goal, (he wants to live in a cottage by the sea), then I will have to weigh up whether I want my husband or the moat. If I want the moat then I have to go all out to try and get it, not sit there pressurising my husband into doing something, he doesn't want to do.

If I realise it is an unrealistic goal, then I will have to accept my lot. I cannot spend the next thirty years berating my husband for his lack of willingness to support me in my goal. I either do something about it or I shut up.

 

Aps61' s husband similarly needs to do something about it, ie pursue his threesome agenda and if that means leaving then leave, or just shut up about it.

Similarly if aps61 is under serious stress over this and he is unwilling to get help, then there is also the possibility of leaving him to it, he can obsess over threesomes all he likes on his own, whilst she gets on with the rest of her life.

[ascendotum]

but I was younger and single and didn't even knew if we were going to get married or not. The dynamics were different

 

For a bf or husband the above does not make any difference from their perspective. Many guys will love to have a kinky adventurous wife, but what they dont want is a wife that used to be that way with other guys but are now not that type of woman anymore...for them. A number of women on here plus Ive heard a number IRL life say they save the kinky/freaky stuff for their fwbs, flings and ons and not for their husbands or future fiance because they dont want to upset their image or cause possible complications for the relationship.

 

He wont understand that you are uncomfortable doing it with the man who has been by your side for yrs but you are fine doing it for some guys you hardly knew and maybe didn't see you as special & had no interest in you other than shagging you, get to see more of your wild side and get to give you some of your best sex memories. In his mind he could well see that you thought the badboy you cheated? with and had the 3some with was more special that you surrendered more to him sexually.

 

I totally think it is wrong when he says the 3some was justification for him to have an affair. I'm not sure if what you had was an open relationship when he was in canada or it was an LDR, so I don't know if either of you cheated then or not. If it was an open relationship then was definitely wrong to cheat recently. If he was really after a 3some then I think he should have gone down that path with you first before cheating. You could easily claim now he got his supposed 3some equalizer with his affair or even claim that you are the one to be more aggrieved by his affair.

 

At the time when you told him he was obviously cool with it, but maybe he thought/hoped he would be able to experience the same thing with you at some stage, though if he did he certainly sat on it for a long time. I don't think you did wrong telling him of your 3some you had when he was os, but if you never intended to have one with him, then it was not ideal and he should have discussed it more before marriage . The fear of causing a complication in your relationship by not getting kinky with him and doing one is now well equaled by the complication caused by not letting him enjoy one with you...alas.

[elaine567]

I would say our sexual life was actually both more fun without the kids and also way more frequent which was great. Until his father got sicker.

Also I forgot to add because he only mentioned this bothering him last night he is feeling insecure because "things" don't seem to be working the way they used to. Well, I am not sure what to say. We're certainly not 20 anymore. But the way things were going if there was the odd pause here and there just because we might be over doing it, it didn't seem to come out as a big thing.We would just stop and make pancakes for a bit and come back to play after. Everything was back working again.

Now again because my brain works female instead of male, this might be a huge problem for him while I am not really seeing it like that.

I would understand it being a problem if it was not happening at all, or if it seemed like a "mechanical" problem but in reality it just seems that we were enjoying the freedom too much and overdoing things.... I don't know, I understand that in itself it's a very touchy and scary male thing but it only happened on repeats of repeat performance.. I would think that it's not that abnormal even in someone younger. And it didn't prevent us from having fun, just got us to pace ourselves a bit more...

 

I think this may be at the bottom of his problem and perhaps even why he reneged on the threesome offered by his OW all those years ago.

He is upset with you because you experienced the threesome and deep down he knows his performance in any threesome would be in doubt. That is a difficult concept to grasp for any man, and he then needs an outlet for his anger and frustration.

He may be punishing you for his own inadequacy.

He most likely is well aware that you would never agree to a threesome, so he is secure in his position to blast you.

Berating you may be easier, than facing up to his own issues here.

[oldshirt]

Wow, I can't believe a thread has been posted about this! OP, for the love of God, please read the following link about an almost identical situation for the man's perspective:

 

Saving the Best |

 

Your husband is bothered about one thing, and one thing only: your sexual best was never meant for him. That's what is eating him up inside. It's likely you will divorce. Again please read the link on the rational male above.

 

The story in that link is an extreme example and has a few factors that really aren't relevant to this case.

 

It does however do a good job of highlighting the concept and the commentary about it does a good job of explaining what goes on in the male psyche.

 

I think the take away here is that people, both men and women, need to bring their A-Game into their marital bed and give their best to their spouse.

 

I think aps61 gets that and sincerely believes she has done that.

 

The question here is whether her husband believes he has received "her best" or not. What she thinks is her best vs what he thinks is her best May be at odds.

 

The real problem is there are so many other things going on and so many other factors at play. This probably really isn't about 3domes that took place 30 years ago which he was aware of when they married. There are other issues at play here and the 3somes are what he is choosing to have the whiney fit over.

 

IMHO this can be worked out and rectified. It will probably take professional counseling and therapy to work through all the different issues and sift through all the different layers however.

[aps61]

Hudson 701, each person is different of course, and yes, men and women have some chore differences not sure if induced by cultural aspects as much as deep instinct. But many similarities as well. I take great enjoyment in sex, but my life or my relationships or even yet my self esteem are not ruled by sex. Nor should they be in my opinion. I am made of many different things and parts and sex is only one of them. That's the part that I believe clashes with a men's perspective I am thinking.

We all have fantasies, some sexual some not. Some that are feasible, some that are not. Judging a relationship for the existence or lack of one thing amidst a myriad of others seems very simplistic.

I would love to have had the opportunity to experience parachuting. I used to draw parachutes and people "flying" when I as a kid. It was not just a fantasy, it was something I really wanted to do. MY husband did it several times before we married. I never did because the opportunity never arise and obviously I didn't motivate myself to go look for the opportunities and do it. Why would I be upset that he done it? I'm glad he did, he went for what he wanted and got it. I didn't. It's not his fault that I didn't. And I am glad he had the chance to enjoy it instead of miserable because I didn't. It was my choice - or lack of motivation - and I can't blame anyone for it. I can be here explaining why since he had done I thought that by marrying I would have the chance to do it myself, with him. But that would be pure nonsense and doesn't change the fact that the responsibility for not doing it was mine. SO I enjoy his own experience, ask him about it sometimes, think that would have been nice to try it, but I am not burdening him with my failure to do it. See the female perspective? Actually not even the female perspective, my perspective which doesn't have to be the same as the rest of the females.

In the issue we're discussing, I don't even see why I need to get to make him remember or forget what I did any more that I have any specific need to remember or forget what he did before we got married. If that is so, then second and third marriages or even people that marry later and certainly had a sexual life before getting married have no chance! Where is it written the sex or love for that matter is a matter of comparisons and tantrums about what the other people did before? I know I can be insecure sometimes and am actually being so now, but that concept is taking insecurity to what seems the limit to me.

IN any case thank you for your insight, it certainly gives a different perspective.

[aps61]

Elaine 567 I was giggling while reading about the castle with a moat. It does hit part of things I believe.

The thing is a bit like the way I deal with my kids. I decide which battles are more important for me to fight for instead of going around forbidding everything that I wouldn't like them to do and make them go and do them just because. My daughter wanted to colour her hair blue. I didn't necessary think it was her best idea at her age, but I looked at it from the point of view of is this something that I really want to go to battle for? What's the worse that can happen? She colours her hair looks silly - or not - for a few months in which time the colour starts going by itself or she decides she doesn't want blue hair anymore and would have wasted a good battle for nothing that needed to be permanent. Go ahead with the blue hair, honey! - she didn't do it after all.

Maybe I would like to have a threesome - which I don't, it's just an example - or turn our relationship into a swingers lifestyle or something in those areas. First if it was something I already knew I would want before getting married I believe I should talk to my prospective husband before and see if we were in the same frame of mind. If yes, cool. If not Then I would have to weight how important that was to me, and if not having it, but having good less wild sex with him would be enough for me or not and from then decide if we should get married or not. If the idea came to me after marriage things would probably be more complicated because on top of need to find out if I would be able to live an happy and fulfilled life with what he was able to provide for me within is values, I would have to consider the whole picture - just because life is not just sex. - Trying to force him to adopt my views was of course out of the question, but maybe communication about what exactly or where exactly I wanted to get with this fantasy or wish could get us somewhere. I would need to be sensitive to his reasons and feelings and really figure out what was more important for me, if life with someone that had made me happy and fulfilled for a number of years, someone I cared deeply for, a life filled with small things that made us into what we were , or just go for something that I might or not enjoy, jeopardize all we had together, and start fresh doing what I wanted regardless that I might not want is or like it as much as I was thinking. This because we often tend to think of things that tickle our fantasies and suddenly believe that's exactly what I want, and in the end after we're there...it suddenly it's not all that we fantasized or wanted. - that's human nature

But regardless of my decision, feeling miserable about making it later and get everyone around me miserable too as if my choice was their fault sounds so wrong I can't even justify it to defend myself if I needed.

In the end you're right. It's up to him - regardless of what I feel about it - but he does have to figure out what he really, really wants and is important for him. If threesome is it. Then get going and you can do it day and night and enjoy yourself. If the marriage is it, then say so, accept some help from counselling , figure out what the real main issue is , and use my support if wanted throughout the process. Either way,a fter choices are made, nothing else needs to be said about it in the future, no coming back with the same problem years later,and again responsibility for own choices -.

As for your second response, I believe you might have something there, but it wouldn't have anything to do with the affair or the threesome opportunity since that was quite a long time ago and there were no problems whatsoever then, it's just something that started to worry him within this past 2 months and something and yes, I noticed but as I said we were really over doing it with the house basically just to ourselves. I never gave it a second thought because I could see that happen to anyone his age or even much younger in that case.

[aps61]

ascendotum - I just dont want a threesome. I am and was always open to a million other things that were in his bucket list. I am not saving the threesome to do with anyone else because I don't want to do it. And it has nothing to do with whatever image I want to project of myself, or because I am afraid it will cause complications in my relationship. I am not comfortable doing it with him, or anyone else. Was there, thought it was over-rated, and found many other things that were more enjoyable within my own relationship with my husband. The other people as nice as they were did not give me any of my best memories in relation to sex and it's not any interest of mine to use what I did as a notch in my bedpost - so to speak. I didn't surrender more sexually that I have done with my husband, I just did the same things that I do with him, with the addition of another person creating more interchanges nothign else. Nothing super special even if pleasant or nothing that could give me so much more over what both of us have together. I am a woman remember? Visual is not that important, feeling is and the feeling in the end, is basically the same be it with one or 50 thousand people. The mind creates 75% - who knows if I"m exaggerating here or going low? - of the good feelings, touch, sounds, emotions, etc do the rest and the number of people is irrelevant. A threesome for me feels more like "well I'm bored and too lazy to imagine something completely cool and new that we can make together , so let's just add more people and see what we get" or " I want to cheat but don't want to have to fight my own conscience doing so, so maybe I can convince my spouse to do a threesome and that way I can cheat legitimately." Of course that's only the way I see it. Many couples can survive threesomes and even have a great time with the duality, I don't. Don't get me wrong, I am not being prude. I was after all the girl that firmly believe that group marriage was the best idea since sliced bread. I had all the reasons why - and no they had not only to do with sex, they went for one or a set of parents always present with the children, more people earning for the family less money spend in mortgage or rent overall, same for clothes food etc , several couples accounted for variety if needed without guilt, each individual able to pursue education within the group.... it sounded great , until I got to the fact that we are all humans and filled with insecurities, issues, vanity and selfishness. There went my theory down the drain.

As for what his relation was at that time, I'm not sure we had labels for those things then. We just weren't really wanting to end things when he left, but were aware that distance could be a problem and decided to not break up , just be aware that it was possible that either one could find something else and it was ok as long it was told so we could rethink what we wanted . That's what he failed to do and what I did.

If his idea was that all he could hear was the word threesome and hoped that maybe we could experience that together maybe he should have said so then. I am not sure if I would want or not, but at that time things seemed different so who knows, I might have had agreed after explaining that it wasn't what I wanted as a lifestyle, but a one time thing.

I have never had problem getting kinky with him, threesomes are not the only "kinky" thing. I just prefer to enjoy things at two instead of more. And the reason why I don't want to do has nothing to do with fear or creating complications in our relationship - obviously they're there as it is with or without threesome - just it's not something that does much for me.

[aps61]

oldshirt you really have a point. Several actually. THe zillions of things happening recently in our life, all of them big stressors certainly are part of the real problem. The facing his own mortality trough his father's death certainly is as well, and hey...the fact that it has been 30 years together...sometimes people end up thinking what if....?

 

We had daughter that recently separated and is back living with us and even though most mature and responsible in some ways, a complete idiot in others. This has been stressing both of us and actually was creating some sort of divide between us in regards to different ways we wanted to deal with some of the issues coming from her living with us again and bringing her two dogs and one cat to a house that already had two dogs and one cat. I know this sounds like nothing really important, quite trivial indeed, but has been a big issue that spilled from him and her to him and me. I believe all these things contributed to a huge stress problem to him - I am feeling it too, but I'm more able to separate things - and then what happened to his father just rocked the boat so much everything got unbalanced and it's easy to try and grasp at anything that can justify all the rest.

As for the possible different views of what my best is or not, I agree that it's a possibility, but if so I would have expected the differences to have come earlier, not just now. Before now it never came up or seemed to be an issue in any way. Even the affair came at a time where - even if it's not an acceptable justification - things were really complicated in other fields, not the sexual.

Once again thanks for the insight, you explain things in a way that is easy to understand and bring different perspectives that make sense.

Now we just need to get him to counselling and see how we can - or not - "un-mess" the whole thing

As for me I am certainly going to counselling.

The story in the link, well yes, it did bring some insight into the male psyche, but so did many of the posts here. I was not too excited about some of his comments even though I kept in mind he was commenting on that special case.

It's hard for me to agree with or even understand why he thinks that women in general( his actual words were " but the methodology she and all women use to justify their sexual pluralism" ) have this incredible desire of being super wild with someone else , hide it from their spouses and pretend that they are all little angels with no sex or even the necessity to justify what they done by using emotional damage and abuse .

That retroactive cuckold idea didn't sit that well with me either. From what I wrote here, it's clear that I felt it was important for my husband to be aware of what I did before he decided to commit to me in marriage, but even thought that is important for me, that's only my view, my value.. not everyone goes into a new relationship feeling that it is important to disclose all past sexual experiences, and that goes for both men and women. My view and other people's views don't have to be right or wrong and can be even opposites. Some people prefer to talk about it and disclose all or part, some prefer to keep those things to themselves, because in reality, they should have no relevance in the present relationship. To be honest, although some interesting and realistic ideas were brought forward in his comments, and to be fair he was commenting on a specific case, but a big part of his comments sounded like he's been meeting the wrong women and generalizing that all are this or that way.

Women are sexual beings and enjoy sex as much as men. Women can take things to extremes, make mistakes, enjoy kinky, lie, deceive and cheat, use silly reasons for justification, etc. etc. etc. But so can men. It's not a gender thing it's a "human being " thing. Generalizing is never the best idea, because all people are different. Make it seem like the men are predisposed by culture and society to be the victims of these deceiving and lying women - all according to him - is misleading and not accurate. We all are potential victims, it can happen or not, but the possibility is there. We all can be lied to, find secretes about our mates, or lie and keep secrets.

We also have a the capacity to enjoy things with different people, and yet we tend to choose the one we prefer to be the one we want to be with, regardless if it was the wildest or the least wild because there are many other things that are part of the equation. People are sexual beings. Not all are sexual above all. Which brings us again to the "best" , what is the best, really? It certainly can be different things to different people. And I say it again, my threesome experiences were not even close to my best, neither it is important for me to keep those memories as something precious. I am quite neutral about it and actually can feel kind of offensive to me to think or have them thought as my best.