The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[Taramere]

Stating expectations is not as effective as you think. I can see it now, me telling a woman I don't want to date selfish, entitled women. I am sure that any selfish entitled woman would then admit her selfish nature and bow out of the date

 

I would think it's more effective to focus on what you do want, rather than to focus on what you don't want.

 

There are women I've known as friends, colleagues and acquaintances who I'm pretty sure would be defined as selfish, entitled etc by quite a few guys on this board. They spend a lot of money on clothes and beauty treatments. They're confident, gregarious and at times borderline aggressive in terms of having that "I'm worth it" mentality. It might make me wince slightly (especially if I imagine them posting their views on Loveshack) but from what I can see, in real life a lot of men really don't mind it - and actually seem to quite respect it.

 

No matter how many people argue that you can look good on a shoestring....women who look head turningly good have generally put a fair bit of time, cash and effort into it. the women I've encountered who put a lot of cash into the way they look tend to expect to be treated. It's that "because I'm worth it" attitude...and while it might go down very badly with a lot of guys, there are others who share that belief and value.

 

What it comes down to is how materialistic a person is. How much they like money and all the most visible trappings of wealth and success. I don't think the Gold Digger is any more of a prostitute than is the guy who makes his employment decisions primarily based on how much money is on offer. Or who wants a girlfriend who will be immaculately (and expensively) turned out, and who will turn heads because of it, to a lower maintenance woman who hasn't the time, inclination or cash to put many hours and thousands of dollars into her appearance.

 

These things are about having a materialistic mindset that is focused on having a lot of money, luxury and visible trappings of success. About being beautiful, and having that beauty appreciated in the form of gifts of expensive meals, jewellery etc. Materialistic people tend to want materialistic partners. Sure, the sense of entitlement they detect in those partners, or prospective partners, might annoy them at times...but that doesn't mean they'd be better off with a low maintenance partner who doesn't care about material things.

[xxoo]

Yeah I've heard about these guys who are always paying for stuff. What are they called again....'Nice Guys' something like that?

 

From the way women talk about them...they ain't competition.

 

Those are guys women aren't attracted to. We're talking about genuine attraction.

[insert_name]

Filtering out men who see no differences between courtship and prostitution is a nice side benefit

 

Is that what they call it these days?

[Woggle]

If a woman is genuinely attracted to a man he doesn't have to spend a some.

[xxoo]

If a woman is genuinely attracted to a man he doesn't have to spend a some.

 

Of course, attraction isn't dependent on paying for dates.

 

But it does increase attraction, and it also demonstrates qualities that are important to a lot of women when looking for a partner. It's part of both natural attraction AND smart attraction.

[insert_name]

Those are guys women aren't attracted to. We're talking about genuine attraction.

 

How can you be genuinely attracted to someone who is effectively paying for your company while placing no expectation on you stepping up to the plate in response?

 

That is quite weak behaviour so I would imagine it becomes hard to respect pretty quickly.

[xxoo]

How can you be genuinely attracted to someone who is effectively paying for your company while placing no expectation on you stepping up to the plate in response?

 

That is quite weak behaviour so I would imagine it becomes hard to respect pretty quickly.

 

He's not paying for my company

 

It's quite obvious that I'm genuinely enjoying the company. He's enjoying it, too. Paying is his way of demonstrating personality traits that are highly attractive, making me all "Aye Papi"

[PrettyEmily77]

Woggle mentioned this earlier:There are women out there who expect/require a man to fulfill the traditional "man pays" role but then don't fulfill the traditional "woman cooks" role.

 

Similarly, there are plenty of guys who want equality in terms of finances / paying for dates only, but are not prepared to extend it to anywhere else because of their various hang-ups with 'feminism' (or their definition of it). Presumably because they then wouldn't be able to find their place on the Greek Alphabet spectrum...

 

Providers type of guys want to do just that. Their partners do their part (plenty, by all accounts) as well as work and contribute financially, for many of them - not just cooking, but everything else that goes into being into a committed relationship.

 

Those who want a fully equal partnership on all front (that's what issues with paying on dates signals) should present themselves as modern people happy to share life equally, and make it clear on their OLD thing.

[Shining One]

Of course, attraction isn't dependent on paying for dates.

Not according to some people in this thread. Some are saying there is no attraction if he doesn't pay.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Ya that whole "I'm worth it because it costs me time, effort and money to look this good" is silly. Most guys, and I'm going way out on a limb here, prob don't care and won't know the difference if you spend $180 at the spa to get a mani pedi vs $40 at the little no name salon down the road.

 

Likewise, if you carry a Marc Jacobs purse vs one you got at Marshalls for $39.99. As independent women we work to afford the nice things we want, I love my Marc Jacobs but I don't expect a guy to pay for dates because of my taste.

 

Now, if I were all botoxed up like the Kardashians with beanbags-for-butts implants, I might just target a certain kind of earner/man.

 

Guess it boils down to what kind of women do you go after. A good number of women are not what I just described but do enjoy being romanced. It is that simple.

[insert_name]

I would think it's more effective to focus on what you do want, rather than to focus on what you don't want.

 

There are women I've known as friends, colleagues and acquaintances who I'm pretty sure would be defined as selfish, entitled etc by quite a few guys on this board. They spend a lot of money on clothes and beauty treatments. They're confident, gregarious and at times borderline aggressive in terms of having that "I'm worth it" mentality. It might make me wince slightly (especially if I imagine them posting their views on Loveshack) but from what I can see, in real life a lot of men really don't mind it - and actually seem to quite respect it.

 

No matter how many people argue that you can look good on a shoestring....women who look head turningly good have generally put a fair bit of time, cash and effort into it. the women I've encountered who put a lot of cash into the way they look tend to expect to be treated. It's that "because I'm worth it" attitude...and while it might go down very badly with a lot of guys, there are others who share that belief and value.

 

What it comes down to is how materialistic a person is. How much they like money and all the most visible trappings of wealth and success. I don't think the Gold Digger is any more of a prostitute than is the guy who makes his employment decisions primarily based on how much money is on offer. Or who wants a girlfriend who will be immaculately (and expensively) turned out, and who will turn heads because of it, to a lower maintenance woman who hasn't the time, inclination or cash to put many hours and thousands of dollars into her appearance.

 

These things are about having a materialistic mindset that is focused on having a lot of money, luxury and visible trappings of success. About being beautiful, and having that beauty appreciated in the form of gifts of expensive meals, jewellery etc. Materialistic people tend to want materialistic partners. Sure, the sense of entitlement they detect in those partners, or prospective partners, might annoy them at times...but that doesn't mean they'd be better off with a low maintenance partner who doesn't care about material things.

 

I totally agree with this- dating has to be give and take. Don't expect to get out more than you put in and that goes for both genders. Unfortunately however there seems to be a prevailing mood that I see in real life and that is amplified on here where dating ends up being a battle of who can put in the least effort and get the most value out of the interaction.

 

Women are encouraged to think that they are the "prize", a common piece of advice given which fosters just that sort of mindset: that she has to put in little while expecting only the best in return, with no introspection required as to exactly WHY she is a prize (perhaps just because she has a vagina).

 

I'm sure this will rattle a few cages but speaking as a guy I see the trade off between a woman's appearance and how much effort (in terms of behaviour and resources) a man puts in as a fair one. If a woman puts in effort to look good and make a great impression then I am more inclined to up the ante and display a refined sense of taste in what we do.

 

The girl who turns up dressed down with no makeup is going to get chicken in a basket at the local Harvester.

 

You get out what you put in.

[Sunkissedpatio]

 

You get out what you put in.

 

You get what you pay for, don't you mean?

[Shining One]

Those who want a fully equal partnership on all front (that's what issues with paying on dates signals) should present themselves as modern people happy to share life equally, and make it clear on their OLD thing.

I did try this for a while, but I wasn't getting results. I've found it's better not to state this and just filter women based on their behavior. I've found more compatible women this way. I also end up spending less while still enjoying my time with most of the "Ms. Wrongs" I meet.

[PrettyEmily77]

I did try this for a while, but I wasn't getting results. I've found it's better not to state this and just filter women based on their behavior. I've found more compatible women this way. I also end up spending less while still enjoying my time with most of the "Ms. Wrongs" I meet.

 

You filter them without telling them why, though...

 

Whatever, man. If you get what you want and are getting something out of every date regardless of who pays what, then what's the issue?

[Leigh 87]

How can you be genuinely attracted to someone who is effectively paying for your company while placing no expectation on you stepping up to the plate in response?

 

That is quite weak behaviour so I would imagine it becomes hard to respect pretty quickly.

 

 

 

Because I am sexually repelled by men who enjoy going halves.

 

I do not connect or relate to men OR WOMEN - who earn decent money yet prefer to only split the check or " take turns" for trivial crap. I just took turn when I was on decent money; never did enjoy halves. It is cheap.

 

Holidays and expensive places? Sure thing - I would most definitely go and treat him to a few rounds of beer, if he has gone and booked a fancy hotel for the night and treated me to dinner.

 

Expensive stuff - I contribute.

 

Dinner dates? Small weekends away when a guy IS cashed up and can WELL AFFORD to treat me AND still have ample savings? Sorry but I am simply sexually repulsed by men who can afford to treat a woman to smaller weekend trips and low key dinners - yet do not.

 

I will be their friends and I have friends who are not generous. Fine. I don't wish to sleep with them or date them though.

 

I am a very generous person so please stop assuming that women who prefer traditional men, do not also enjoy having it the one way - some of us actually enjoy the FEMALE traditional gender roles - I love cooking cleaning and taking care of men/my bf, and I like the man to be more the one to treat me to the dates and romance.

 

They are not paying for my love - I NEED a spark to begin with and I NEED to like their personalities and CLICK WITH THEM in order for feelings to turn from chemistry and lust - into true love

 

Mutual admiration and respect go far.

 

And I cannot respect or fall for a guy who has a generous income, yet PREFERS to go halves - I like men who are generous and PREFER To treat a woman.

 

AND NO - I DO NOT think men should treat women they barely bloody known to first dates on a regular basis:lmao: I DO NOT think men should throw their money away on random new women they meet weekly from online.

 

There are just SO Many awful misconceptions about women like me who prefer to be treated!

 

I had many rich men want to date me and yet I declined because I actually do need true love. Some of them were really nice and funny and attractive, too. SO yeah.

 

Treating women is just one trait of GENEROSITY that I need in order to feel it for a man in the long run, I noticed; my ex got me to go pay my own way while my friends men all treated them. It made me lose ALL chemistry towards my ex real fast.

 

It turns out my ex was a tight wad - and his best friend was of the same ilk; he would extol the benefits of the women who rejected jewellery - he felt women who turned down gifts and who refused to be spoilt - and literally wanted no money spent on them - where the best types.

 

He obviously could not understand basic psych 101! That generous women who ENJOY being in the kitchen and cleaning also enjoy traditional men!

 

Some women LIKE tradition! So shoot us!

 

Go and crucify the women who want to be treated and to be able to get away with giving nothing in return - and leave us kind and generous ladies alone, to enjoy our free meals (JOKES:lmao:)

 

I am serious....I am just legit NOT sexually attracted to men who enjoy going halves despite having a decent job. It is so far outside of my own generous nature, that I simply do not... like people who can afford to spoil a woman, yet do not.

[Shining One]

You filter them without telling them why, though...

Do you tell all of the men you reject why you're doing so? I've always thought you don't tell someone why you're rejecting them unless they ask. I have told the women why when they ask, but most don't ask.

Whatever, man. If you get what you want and are getting something out of every date regardless of who pays what, then what's the issue?

I would still prefer to spend less time searching for "Ms. Right". I'm sure I'm also filtering out potentially compatible women because they're not reciprocating in the time frame I'm allotting. Basically, while this process works for me, it can be better.

[insert_name]

Ya that whole "I'm worth it because it costs me time, effort and money to look this good" is silly. Most guys, and I'm going way out on a limb here, prob don't care and won't know the difference if you spend $180 at the spa to get a mani pedi vs $40 at the little no name salon down the road.

 

Likewise, if you carry a Marc Jacobs purse vs one you got at Marshalls for $39.99. As independent women we work to afford the nice things we want, I love my Marc Jacobs but I don't expect a guy to pay for dates because of my taste.

 

Now, if I were all botoxed up like the Kardashians with beanbags-for-butts implants, I might just target a certain kind of earner/man.

 

Guess it boils down to what kind of women do you go after. A good number of women are not what I just described but do enjoy being romanced. It is that simple.

 

'Romanced', 'courtship' - with respect I can't help but laugh a bit at the rather lofty and noble terms that are being used by women to put a more palatable spin on what basically boils down to men paying for a woman's company. There is an inference that it is an entirely one way transaction and that is the bit I struggle with.

 

Am I looking for a girlfriend, or a Mafia Captain? Or are they both the same thing these days? Gotta keep the beak wet

[SwordofFlame]

3. That's what you should be whining about - if your competition is made of 90% of men willing to pay for all dates, that's your issue right here, not 'entitled and selfish women' (or whatever).

 

That's a very good point. It really is all about expectations and those expectations can be driven by what you can realistically get from the opposite sex in the dating market. For example, if a guy is very used to having sex after he's paid for the first three dates, that becomes his expectation.

 

If a woman is so attractive that she has no problem getting men to pay for date after date without reciprocating. I suppose I can't fault her for that. I also wouldn't date her.

[xxoo]

You filter them without telling them why, though...

 

Whatever, man. If you get what you want and are getting something out of every date regardless of who pays what, then what's the issue?

 

I don't understand the issue, either. Different strokes for different folks, and filtering out poor matches is a good thing.

 

FWIW, I wouldn't tell a guy why I was filtering him out, either. I don't think he's wrong and should change; just not the right guy for me.

[insert_name]

You get what you pay for, don't you mean?

 

I think we have already established that that isn't true (if you are a guy, anyway)

[PrettyEmily77]

Do you tell all of the men you reject why you're doing so?

 

I've always been asked, so yeah. Especially when they're being judged on something they weren't even aware of (I don't do that but I can see why you wouldn't want to tell them straight up).

 

I would still prefer to spend less time searching for "Ms. Right". I'm sure I'm also filtering out potentially compatible women because they're not reciprocating in the time frame I'm allotting. Basically, while this process works for me, it can be better.

 

There seems to be an awful lot of filters there... Seems to be working though so good luck with it all the same.

[Leigh 87]

'Romanced', 'courtship' - with respect I can't help but laugh a bit at the rather lofty and noble terms that are being used by women to put a more palatable spin on what basically boils down to men paying for a woman's company. There is an inference that it is an entirely one way transaction and that is the bit I struggle with.

 

Am I looking for a girlfriend, or a Mafia Captain? Or are they both the same thing these days? Gotta keep the beak wet

 

 

 

Sheesh what is your problem?

 

If you do not like it, go and continue dating and splitting the check every time. It works for you. That is fantastic. Please do not be so dogmatic and expect it to be the one way fits all approach that ALL WOMEN should adopt - or else, dissing us and insulting us.

 

I do darn well more for my bf than most women do. Cleaning, cooking, massages, unlimited support. Supporting him him emotionally through drug addiction and giving him a chance when most people would bolt.

 

Anyone with half a brain can see that not ALL OF US should go out and date the same way you do. People do things differently, why the big deal?

 

I think it is great that people split the check, if it works for them. I would never dream of telling a friend or family member to start to get the man to pay - because my way is not the ideal method of dating for every person, but it is for me!

[Leigh 87]

I don't understand the issue, either. Different strokes for different folks, and filtering out poor matches is a good thing.

 

FWIW, I wouldn't tell a guy why I was filtering him out, either. I don't think he's wrong and should change; just not the right guy for me.

 

 

 

There are men who simply will never "learn" to feel happy about treating a woman. Some men just point blank what a strongly independent woman who does not allow men to pay her way.

 

Then there are men like my bf, who frankly would feel uncomfortable allowing a woman to go halves.

 

Some men have progressed with the times; others have their pride and male egos firmly routed in the past!

 

I do not see any intelligible argument as to why one method far exceeds the other in merit or validity.

[xxoo]

This song exemplifies what attitude and personality trait that I find unbelievably attractive:

 

Not the singer (who is hot ), not the video (which is about a single mom, and completely applicable to the song), but the lyrics themselves. SO HOT

 

It's not about rich or gold digging or (lol) prostitution. It's about seeking and hitching my wagon to a man with this attitude. AYE PAPI :love::bunny:

 

And paying on early dates is what this sort of guy does. Cheap dates, expensive dates...doesn't matter. It's about the attitude, not the money.

[Shining One]

It's about seeking and hitching my wagon to a man with this attitude.

Interesting word choice. You're right in that it all comes down to what we're each looking for. Personally, I don't want a woman who hitches herself to me to get pulled along. I could have gotten that from an arranged marriage. I want a woman who stands by my side as an equal partner. If anyone watches the TV show Vikings, I would take Lagertha over Aslaug any day of the week.