The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[xxoo]

Interesting word choice. You're right in that it all comes down to what we're each looking for. Personally, I don't want a woman who hitches herself to me to get pulled along. I could have gotten that from an arranged marriage. I want a woman who stands by my side as an equal partner. If anyone watches the TV show Vikings, I would take Lagertha over Aslaug any day of the week.

 

I think of the wagons hitched together, my wagon to his. We both pull most of the time.

 

But I've also borne his children, and in those times, he pulled. His drive to pull was as strong as that song suggests. That's what I was looking for in a husband and father of my kids. I chose well.

[Woggle]

Similarly, there are plenty of guys who want equality in terms of finances / paying for dates only, but are not prepared to extend it to anywhere else because of their various hang-ups with 'feminism' (or their definition of it). Presumably because they then wouldn't be able to find their place on the Greek Alphabet spectrum...

 

Providers type of guys want to do just that. Their partners do their part (plenty, by all accounts) as well as work and contribute financially, for many of them - not just cooking, but everything else that goes into being into a committed relationship.

 

Those who want a fully equal partnership on all front (that's what issues with paying on dates signals) should present themselves as modern people happy to share life equally, and make it clear on their OLD thing.

 

I agree that there are men who are hypocrites about it as well. A lot of people of both genders don't realize that if you want to receive you should also give.

[Weezy1973]

I think on a subconscious level, for many women if a man pays on the first few dates it shows he's willing to invest his time and resources in pursuing a relationship with her rather than just wanting to have sex with her. Which is what they find attractive.

[xxoo]

I think on a subconscious level, for many women if a man pays on the first few dates it shows he's willing to invest his time and resources in pursuing a relationship with her rather than just wanting to have sex with her. Which is what they find attractive.

 

Absolutely, and the opposite has the opposite effect. It's just unattractive (to me).

 

It's good to be really comfortable with yourself, and with rejection. I'd thank a guy for rejecting me based on this! It would be much better than him faking it, paying and resenting it.

[PrettyEmily77]

I'd thank a guy for rejecting me based on this! It would be much better than him faking it, paying and resenting it.

 

Right? I mean grown adults should be able to handle rejection whatever the reason, especially after 4 or 5 dates (I don't know what timescale that covers, but I'd imagine it to be over a month?) and even more importantly if they had sex (a prize for all the dates paid for and never reciprocated, presumably...).

 

This whole thing makes queasy.

[Taramere]

Ya that whole "I'm worth it because it costs me time, effort and money to look this good" is silly. Most guys, and I'm going way out on a limb here, prob don't care and won't know the difference if you spend $180 at the spa to get a mani pedi vs $40 at the little no name salon down the road.

 

Likewise, if you carry a Marc Jacobs purse vs one you got at Marshalls for $39.99. As independent women we work to afford the nice things we want, I love my Marc Jacobs but I don't expect a guy to pay for dates because of my taste.

 

I'm guessing that if you have expensive tastes regarding beauty products and clothes, you also like to eat out in fairly expensive places rather than going to cheap and cheerful diners. If so, do you pay for men to eat out in the expensive places...or would you expect them to pay their share while you pay your share?

 

I ask, because the women I know who spend a lot on clothes etc are not generally very keen on cheap restaurants. They may not expect a man to treat them to expensive meals, but I'd say that generally they'll expect him to keep up with their lifestyle tastes - which can be costly, even if he's only paying for his own share rather than paying for her.

[No_Go]

Nah, I'm not Sunkissed, but I like some things expensive (skincare, shoes, electronics) and can't care less about price of a restaurant. Actually as an introvert, I'm highly intimidated by the wait stuff in expensive places.

 

When facing a desire to go to expensive place and don't want to pay for my man or friend - easy, I just go alone.

 

 

I'm guessing that if you have expensive tastes regarding beauty products and clothes, you also like to eat out in fairly expensive places rather than going to cheap and cheerful diners. If so, do you pay for men to eat out in the expensive places...or would you expect them to pay their share while you pay your share?

 

I ask, because the women I know who spend a lot on clothes etc are not generally very keen on cheap restaurants. They may not expect a man to treat them to expensive meals, but I'd say that generally they'll expect him to keep up with their lifestyle tastes - which can be costly, even if he's only paying for his own share rather than paying for her.

[Sunkissedpatio]

I'm guessing that if you have expensive tastes regarding beauty products and clothes, you also like to eat out in fairly expensive places rather than going to cheap and cheerful diners. If so, do you pay for men to eat out in the expensive places...or would you expect them to pay their share while you pay your share?

 

I ask, because the women I know who spend a lot on clothes etc are not generally very keen on cheap restaurants. They may not expect a man to treat them to expensive meals, but I'd say that generally they'll expect him to keep up with their lifestyle tastes - which can be costly, even if he's only paying for his own share rather than paying for her.

 

I don't "expect guys to pay" I do appreciate it if I a man offers to.

 

I'm not keen on eating at 5 michelin start restaurants if that is what you mean. That is the kind of place you go to on a special occasion but even then I like yummy food in a good atmosphere. I don't care if it is in a pub or a trendy night out. In fact, I've had disappointing meals at expensive restaurants and amazing meals at middle of road restaurants.

 

I don't have a "certain lifestyle" that a man needs to adapt to, and certainly not when it comes to dining going out. I do love to travel so a man who can afford travel is nice since that is what I mostly like to spend on most.

 

I'm more about experiences than appearances.

[katiegrl]

Nah, I'm not Sunkissed, but I like some things expensive (skincare, shoes, electronics)

 

and can't care less about price of a restaurant. Actually as an introvert, I'm highly intimidated by the wait stuff in expensive places.

 

 

Same for me No Go!

 

I would actually prefer a hole in the wall (with a great fun atmosphere) with great food than an expensive restaurant.

 

Lets go someplace fun and split some apps, drink beer or champagne and I'm a happy camper!

 

I dislike "formal" sit downs at high end expensive restaurants.

 

Weird I know. lol

[TheBladeRunner]

I always pay for the first date regardless....What can I say, chivalry IS NOT dead....just me, just sayin'

[TheBladeRunner]

....oh, and I'm old (over 40 let's just say)

[Sunkissedpatio]

....oh, and I'm old (over 40 let's just say)

 

Well if you look anything like Harrison Ford, BladeRunner, I might just be in love...keep saying all the right things..

[Els]

Still not seeing the issue here. If you don't want to pay for dates, just don't pay for dates. If people filter you out based on that, then the two of you weren't compatible anyway, so what's the problem? You get to dictate what you do, same as how other people get to dictate what their personal preferences are.

 

Same as how if I don't want to shave my legs over the winter, I just don't shave them. If a guy gets so turned off by that that he would write me off, then we're just not compatible. What I DON'T do is insist that every guy should be fine with unshaved legs and that every guy who gets turned off by them is an entitled, hypocritical prick...

 

Molehills into mountains, geez.

[Sunkissedpatio]

 

Molehills into mountains, geez.

 

Seriously!

 

It's fun to banter for a bit but we all know we are going out there and following the very norms we are defending and others are opposing.

[Sanman]

Wow this topic really never dies, lol. Just to throw fuel on the fire, as I caught an episode of mad men recently...

 

To those who believe that men should pay for dates because it is traditional...lots on men back in the day had wives and mistresses. Are you okay with this future man keeping a mistress as well if he is the breadwinner and you are traditional?

[insert_name]

Still not seeing the issue here. If you don't want to pay for dates, just don't pay for dates. If people filter you out based on that, then the two of you weren't compatible anyway, so what's the problem? You get to dictate what you do, same as how other people get to dictate what their personal preferences are.

 

Same as how if I don't want to shave my legs over the winter, I just don't shave them. If a guy gets so turned off by that that he would write me off, then we're just not compatible. What I DON'T do is insist that every guy should be fine with unshaved legs and that every guy who gets turned off by them is an entitled, hypocritical prick...

 

Molehills into mountains, geez.

 

The issue is that, in the year 2016, it still seems to be very much a cultural norm. It is all very well saying men can just filter out the takers, but when it is a cultural norm.that is quite a sizeable chunk of the dating population. How do you change an entitled attitude to a free dinner? Or get turkeys to vote for Christmas?

 

We live in a world where women's social mobility is greater than ever before and they even hold the upper hand in areas such as education so it is quite feasible in 20 years time that women will be the major breadwinners in each household.........and yet this thread will still be going strong, with female CEOs earning millions complaining that that mechanic she went on a first date with was too cheap to take her to that 5 star restaurant she was avoiding paying for herself to go to.

 

C'est la vie!

[Sanman]

= How do you change an entitled attitude to a free dinner? Or get turkeys to vote for Christmas?

 

Try getting them to vote for Thanksgiving if you are American!

[xxoo]

The issue is that, in the year 2016, it still seems to be very much a cultural norm. It is all very well saying men can just filter out the takers, but when it is a cultural norm.that is quite a sizeable chunk of the dating population. How do you change an entitled attitude to a free dinner? Or get turkeys to vote for Christmas?

 

We live in a world where women's social mobility is greater than ever before and they even hold the upper hand in areas such as education so it is quite feasible in 20 years time that women will be the major breadwinners in each household.........and yet this thread will still be going strong, with female CEOs earning millions complaining that that mechanic she went on a first date with was too cheap to take her to that 5 star restaurant she was avoiding paying for herself to go to.

 

C'est la vie!

 

Men perpetuate this cultural norm. Because, regardless of what is happening in the work world, men and women still enjoy the same "old fashioned" sexual tension in dating and the bedroom

[katiegrl]

Men perpetuate this cultural norm. Because, regardless of what is happening in the work world, men and women still enjoy the same "old fashioned" sexual tension in dating and the bedroom

 

Amen to that!!

[Els]

The issue is that, in the year 2016, it still seems to be very much a cultural norm.

 

It isn't the cultural norm in some countries I've been to. Then again, in those countries, some of the other 'cultural norms' perpetuated on LS (such as disdain towards older women, larger women, or women with many previous partners) don't hold much water either.

 

If you want to change 'cultural norms' to be completely gender-neutral, where do you stop? Should both genders be expected to dress the same as well? Should body hair norms be the same for both? Should men be expected to babysit their friends' or relatives' children as often as women do?

 

It is all very well saying men can just filter out the takers, but when it is a cultural norm.that is quite a sizeable chunk of the dating population.

 

I daresay the chunk of women who require a man to pay is smaller than the chunk of men who get turned off by a woman who doesn't want to be shaved all the time. And yet I have been in several LTRs.

 

If something truly mattered enough to you, if it was a principle you are willing to stand up for, you would be willing to filter out as many as you need to. Otherwise does it really matter that much to you?

[insert_name]

Men perpetuate this cultural norm. Because, regardless of what is happening in the work world, men and women still enjoy the same "old fashioned" sexual tension in dating and the bedroom

 

DO men enjoy creating 'sexual tension' by paying for dates? I don't think it is a given that that is the case- of course women enjoy it, but it is always different when it isn't your money! Men may not like it at all but do it because they feel it is what is expected of them, or as someone else pointed out they may do it because they feel that if they aren't doing it the 'competition' will.

 

I admit my perspective is probably heavily biased by negative experiences. I was brought up with a very chivalrous mindset but over the years that has been chipped away. I certainly never get any sexual tension when I pick up the tab- the girl acts like it was my privilege to do so. The last girl I went big on dinner with didn't want to be seen holding my hand in public after I had just spent £100+ on a meal (which made sense because it later turned out that she was multi-dating despite telling me over dinner that she was just seeing me and she obviously didn't want her main guy seeing her cosying up to someone else!).

 

So yeah, my own experiences have taught me that whilst paying for dates is a nice idea in theory, a man needs to respect his money just as much, if not more so, as he respects himself.

[xxoo]

DO men enjoy creating 'sexual tension' by paying for dates? I don't think it is a given that that is the case- of course women enjoy it, but it is always different when it isn't your money! Men may not like it at all but do it because they feel it is what is expected of them, or as someone else pointed out they may do it because they feel that if they aren't doing it the 'competition' will.

 

I admit my perspective is probably heavily biased by negative experiences. I was brought up with a very chivalrous mindset but over the years that has been chipped away. I certainly never get any sexual tension when I pick up the tab- the girl acts like it was my privilege to do so. The last girl I went big on dinner with didn't want to be seen holding my hand in public after I had just spent £100+ on a meal (which made sense because it later turned out that she was multi-dating despite telling me over dinner that she was just seeing me and she obviously didn't want her main guy seeing her cosying up to someone else!).

 

So yeah, my own experiences have taught me that whilst paying for dates is a nice idea in theory, a man needs to respect his money just as much, if not more so, as he respects himself.

 

Experiences will vary, of course, but yes, I am certain that men enjoy building sexual tension just as much as women do, and chivalry is one method of doing so. I tend to attract this type as much as I am attracted to this type. My husband is very much this type, and even after many years of marriage he is chivalrous and I get weak in the knees We aren't likely to change simply because others don't enjoy it.

[Els]

The last girl I went big on dinner with didn't want to be seen holding my hand in public after I had just spent £100+ on a meal (which made sense because it later turned out that she was multi-dating despite telling me over dinner that she was just seeing me and she obviously didn't want her main guy seeing her cosying up to someone else!).

 

Why would you go on $100+ dates before the two of you are exclusive? (unless money isn't an issue at all, in which case both points would be moot)

[PrettyEmily77]

DO men enjoy creating 'sexual tension' by paying for dates? I don't think it is a given that that is the case- of course women enjoy it, but it is always different when it isn't your money! Men may not like it at all but do it because they feel it is what is expected of them, or as someone else pointed out they may do it because they feel that if they aren't doing it the 'competition' will.

 

I admit my perspective is probably heavily biased by negative experiences. I was brought up with a very chivalrous mindset but over the years that has been chipped away. I certainly never get any sexual tension when I pick up the tab- the girl acts like it was my privilege to do so. The last girl I went big on dinner with didn't want to be seen holding my hand in public after I had just spent £100+ on a meal (which made sense because it later turned out that she was multi-dating despite telling me over dinner that she was just seeing me and she obviously didn't want her main guy seeing her cosying up to someone else!).

 

So yeah, my own experiences have taught me that whilst paying for dates is a nice idea in theory, a man needs to respect his money just as much, if not more so, as he respects himself.

 

Over £100 for a dinner with a near stranger is silly, I'm sorry. Not only is it silly, but unless this part of your normal lifestyle, it's unsustainable long term - spending to impress will get you girls who are impressed with spending.

 

I would feel very uncomfortable with a guy splashing this amount on me or me on him (unless as a super special treat after a while and for a special occasion) and would much rather something low key and more in tune with the guy's (or my) actual lifestyle.

 

If this is normal to you, you need to find someone with the inclination and bank account to match that so she can reciprocate.

[Els]

Over £100 for a dinner with a near stranger is silly, I'm sorry. Not only is it silly, but unless this part of your normal lifestyle, it's unsustainable long term - spending to impress will get you girls who are impressed with spending.

 

I would feel very uncomfortable with a guy splashing this amount on me or me on him (unless as a super special treat after a while and for a special occasion) and would much rather something low key and more in tune with the guy's (or my) actual lifestyle.

 

If this is normal to you, you need to find someone with the inclination and bank account to match that so she can reciprocate.

 

I agree. It always confuses me how some of the guys on LS complain and complain about 'being taken advantage of', and then use as an example the time they splashed (insert huge bill here) on a girl they barely knew and then found out she wasn't interested in them. Like, dude, you pretty much set yourself up for that. How about going on more affordable dates while you get to know each other?

 

I also suspect that they're picking very, very materialistic or high maintenance (in the materialistic sense) women to date. Because I really can't imagine a normal woman feeling okay with a man spending lots of money on her if she knew she might not want to see him again.