The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[Sanman]

You guys don't go out on actual dates in college???

 

Okay, the cultures are probably too different to comment, then. Among the folks I know, pre-college and post-college dating wasn't so very different, and people absolutely did go out on dates in college. Sure we'd splurge a bit more after college but most people had loans and stuff to pay off, were busy saving up for a car and house etc, so it wasn't a night and day difference.

 

To be fair, I myself haven't technically 'dated' post-college (I'm still with the same guy I was with in my final year of college, and although we do still go out on dates, I figure we're all talking about early-stage dating here). But the people I know who dated after college still spent pretty reasonably on dates.

 

I was talking to my wife and she said her experience was much the same. Majority hook-up culture with a few dates here and there. This is not that new either. I graduated from college over a decade ago. Dating in early 20s was not that different, but dating at age 25+ changed more dramatically and taking a woman put for pizza was not necessarily acceptable at that point. However, incomes were not necessarily flowing either for many. I was still a student and intern/resident well into my 20s and dated till I met my wife 5 yrs ago.

[xxoo]

Hook up culture is nothing new, and was already happening in my group throughout the 90s.

 

That's why paying and proper dates means something. It's proper courting, and indicates more serious interest, as opposed to the hook up culture. Not that there is anything wrong with hook up culture! But when I am looking for a relationship, and not interested in "just" hooking up with a guy (because I want more), then these courting behaviors separate him from the pack.

[Shining One]

That's why paying and proper dates means something. It's proper courting, and indicates more serious interest, as opposed to the hook up culture. Not that there is anything wrong with hook up culture! But when I am looking for a relationship, and not interested in "just" hooking up with a guy (because I want more), then these courting behaviors separate him from the pack.

To me, when a woman pays for an early date (or reciprocates in some other fashion), she is showing mutual investment. She is saying to me "we're in this together, we're both taking the risk." That makes her stand out from the pack.

[xxoo]

To me, when a woman pays for an early date (or reciprocates in some other fashion), she is showing mutual investment. She is saying to me "we're in this together, we're both taking the risk." That makes her stand out from the pack.

 

See, then you understand what I'm saying

 

It's all preference for what we prefer.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Hook up culture is nothing new, and was already happening in my group throughout the 90s.

 

That's why paying and proper dates means something. It's proper courting, and indicates more serious interest, as opposed to the hook up culture.

 

This is so perfect!

 

This really shuts down the discussion with the final word, in my opinion.

[Shining One]

This is so perfect!

 

This really shuts down the discussion with the final word, in my opinion.

While I agree about preferences, this doesn't demonstrate in any way to the man that things are progressing to a relationship. I've "properly courted" many women only to be told they thought we should be friends after. Thus, I fail to see how the "man always pays" indicates more serious interest from the woman.

[Futuramafangirl]

See, then you understand what I'm saying

 

It's all preference for what we prefer.

 

You would think. But it seems that for an angry few agreement with them is the only acceptable viewpoint.

[xxoo]

While I agree about preferences, this doesn't demonstrate in any way to the man that things are progressing to a relationship. I've "properly courted" many women only to be told they thought we should be friends after. Thus, I fail to see how the "man always pays" indicates more serious interest from the woman.

 

Many women will not let a man pay when she isn't interested, because we feel that letting him pay shows interest.

 

There are other ways that many men prefer to see interest from a woman, ime. Time, proximity, physical touch, flushed skin, melting into his kiss, etc. I've never had any complaints If anything, it's as plain as a billboard when I'm interested.

 

I would not recommend that a man spend money on a woman who is lacking signs of interest.

[Sunkissedpatio]

While I agree about preferences, this doesn't demonstrate in any way to the man that things are progressing to a relationship. I've "properly courted" many women only to be told they thought we should be friends after. Thus, I fail to see how the "man always pays" indicates more serious interest from the woman.

 

You're right, from the male perspective the optics are the same and on top of it he is out of pocket when dating. But from the female point of view it does signify a certain level of interest that goes beyond just getting into the woman's pants.

 

It's important to us because, women ofter worry that men are just going to "use us for sex," rightly or wrongfully, that is the misconception or interpretation we women have of men and is one of the ways we look for to "protect ourselves"

 

I do get what you are saying though, you are asking "but what's in if for us?" On the flip side men need to protect themselves from being used for money. It does work both ways. What's in it for you is the same thing that is in it for us, sex with commitment and hopefully love and a long-term attachment.

 

Of course it does not guaranteeanything for either party but typically speaking a guy who invests his pocket is the kind of guy who is looking for time investment as well and that is an important underlying factor for a woman to see in those early stages.

 

Again, I am speaking from a more "old school" or traditional mindset, hook-ups are very much a part of dating too but the assumption is that a woman is not interested in a hook-up within the context of this discussion or not interested in hook-ups period.

[Shining One]

Many women will not let a man pay when she isn't interested, because we feel that letting him pay shows interest.

This hasn't been my experience. It's likely a cultural and/or regional thing. I've also seen quite a few women on this board indicate they let a man pay when they have no interest.

There are other ways that many men prefer to see interest from a woman, ime. Time, proximity, physical touch, flushed skin, melting into his kiss, etc.

I'm open to alternative methods of reciprocation. However, not many have chosen to do so. I've also dated women who were "okay" with kissing me, but drew the line at that point. I don't consider physical intimacy as reciprocation though. That is a shared experience for two people, not something one gives to another.

I would not recommend that a man spend money on a woman who is lacking signs of interest.

Here, we agree. I keep things cheap until she demonstrates mutual investment to my satisfaction. I don't consider her relationship material if she fails to show interest.

[SwordofFlame]

Many women will not let a man pay when she isn't interested, because we feel that letting him pay shows interest.

If all women were like this we wouldn't be having this debate.

[Woggle]

Men get told all the time that the bad men ruin it for the rest of us and I think the same is true in reverse. You don't have to agree with the guys on here but at least try to understand why men these days are so cautious and stingy.

[xxoo]

This hasn't been my experience. It's likely a cultural and/or regional thing. I've also seen quite a few women on this board indicate they let a man pay when they have no interest.I'm open to alternative methods of reciprocation. However, not many have chosen to do so. I've also dated women who were "okay" with kissing me, but drew the line at that point. I don't consider physical intimacy as reciprocation though. That is a shared experience for two people, not something one gives to another.Here, we agree. I keep things cheap until she demonstrates mutual investment to my satisfaction. I don't consider her relationship material if she fails to show interest.

 

I don't think of any of this as reciprocation, but more like a positive feedback loop. Ideally, we each show interest in the way that the other values....or we move on to someone who does.

 

If all women were like this we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

There are users of both genders, agreed! Users are fairly easy to suss out with experience, imo.

[Sunkissedpatio]

You don't have to agree with the guys on here but at least try to understand why men these days are so cautious and stingy.

 

This argument has been going on for years and the fact is, men are not stingy at all. Not in my experience. A select few profess to have a hang-up with paying, online, behind computer screens.

 

I see the reason for caution, I just don't see it affecting the norm when it comes to dating and men in the real world.

[Shining One]

I see the reason for caution, I just don't see it affecting the norm when it comes to dating and men in the real world.

The last few women I've ended things with didn't know this was why I ended things. They didn't ask so I didn't tell them why. Several of them probably assumed I just used them for sex and left them once I got what I wanted.

[Sunkissedpatio]

The last few women I've ended things with didn't know this was why I ended things. They didn't ask so I didn't tell them why. Several of them probably assumed I just used them for sex and left them once I got what I wanted.

 

I don't get it...you ended things with them because....?

[Shining One]

I don't get it...you ended things with them because....?

I went on 3-5 dates with them. I planned and paid for all of the dates. They never once looked at their purses. I also did most of the driving. I ended things because they put in no effort to reciprocate. A relationship with them would likely have been exhausting for me.

[Woggle]

If I wanted something I had to care for and feed that gives nothing back I would get a gerbil or a fish. I want an equal in my life and that is what I have. When did it become a bad thing for men to want an equal? Isn't that what the feminists of back in the day wanted?

[xxoo]

The last few women I've ended things with didn't know this was why I ended things. They didn't ask so I didn't tell them why. Several of them probably assumed I just used them for sex and left them once I got what I wanted.

 

If you fake interest in order to keep dating and get sex, I guess you're in a good position to understand women who fake interest in order to get a free meal.

 

Personally, I can't imagine doing either

[Sunkissedpatio]

I went on 3-5 dates with them. I planned and paid for all of the dates. They never once looked at their purses. I also did most of the driving. I ended things because they put in no effort to reciprocate. A relationship with them would likely have been exhausting for me.

 

Oh I see what you mean.

 

In those 3-5 dates at what point did you have sex with them?

[xxoo]

If I wanted something I had to care for and feed that gives nothing back I would get a gerbil or a fish. I want an equal in my life and that is what I have. When did it become a bad thing for men to want an equal? Isn't that what the feminists of back in the day wanted?

 

It's fine, Woggle. Go after what you want! That helps us all find compatible mates and avoid frustration.

 

The men who prefer to court and pay would not say they get "nothing" in return.

[Shining One]

If you fake interest in order to keep dating and get sex, I guess you're in a good position to understand women who fake interest in order to get a free meal.

I didn't fake interest. I saw relationship potential on Date 1. It gradually decreased to only FWB potential by the last date.

Oh I see what you mean.

 

In those 3-5 dates at what point did you have sex with them?

Third or fourth usually.

[Sunkissedpatio]

IfI want an equal in my life and that is what I have. When did it become a bad thing for men to want an equal? Isn't that what the feminists of back in the day wanted?

 

Ohh bruuuuther, then date another man.

 

I don't want an "equal" I want a reciprocal relationship with a man who can bring his manly strengths to the table and where I can offer my womanly strengths to the same.

[xxoo]

I didn't fake interest. I saw relationship potential on Date 1. It gradually decreased to only FWB potential by the last date.

Third or fourth usually.

 

I understand interest gradually fading. That's a situation where I'd insist on paying, so that I didn't send mixed signals.

 

You said they were confused when you broke it off. Why?

[Sunkissedpatio]

Third or fourth usually.

 

Then you did use them for sex

 

If it bothered you so much that you were paying and they weren't reciprocating you would have bailed before date 4. C'mon!!

 

On the flip side if she is sleeping with you after 4 dates then chances are she is not looking for a meal ticket, she gives it up pretty quickly and still sticks around so she clearly wants more.