The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[Woggle]

It's fine, Woggle. Go after what you want! That helps us all find compatible mates and avoid frustration.

 

The men who prefer to court and pay would not say they get "nothing" in return.

 

If she plays her part in the traditional set up then he is not being used but I fail to see what a man gets out of shelling out his money for a woman who gives nothing in return. Some men think they can buy a woman's love and attraction and you never can. At least a man with my mentality knows a woman genuinely loves me.

[Woggle]

Ohh bruuuuther, then date another man.

 

I don't want an "equal" I want a reciprocal relationship with a man who can bring his manly strengths to the table and where I can offer my womanly strengths to the same.

 

I am married to a very attractive and womanly woman who still believes in being equals. She knows how to be a partner instead of looking for to be cared for like I am her daddy.

[Sunkissedpatio]

. Some men think they can buy a woman's love and attraction and you never can.

 

Are you kidding? Of course you can! It happens all the time; romantic relationships are transactional in many ways. Look at the old dude with young woman scenario. An old man buys the attraction of a young woman, a young woman buys stability and prosperity with her youth.

 

At least a man with my mentality knows a woman genuinely loves me.

 

No one genuinely knows if a person truly loves us. We all take leaps of faith though.

[Shining One]

You said they were confused when you broke it off. Why?

They thought things we going well.

If it bothered you so much that you were paying and they weren't reciprocating you would have bailed before date 4. C'mon!!

I've found that many women who do believe in equality don't contribute until the third date at the earliest. Thus, I felt 3-5 dates is a reasonable time frame.

On the flip side if she is sleeping with you after 4 dates then chances are she is not looking for a meal ticket, she gives it up pretty quickly and still sticks around so she clearly wants more.

I'm sure they wanted more. The point is, I didn't want more at that point due to their lack of reciprocation.

[Woggle]

Are you kidding? Of course you can! It happens all the time; romantic relationships are transactional in many ways. Look at the old dude with young woman scenario. An old man buys the attraction of a young woman, a young woman buys stability and prosperity with her youth.

 

 

 

No one genuinely knows if a person truly loves us. We all take leaps of faith though.

 

The young woman with the old dude does not love him. Many of them cheat with men their own age or even younger. If he were to somehow lose it all she would ditch him in a heartbeat. That isn't love. In no way do I want that when I am old.

[Sunkissedpatio]

I am married to a very attractive and womanly woman who still believes in being equals.

 

There is so much intrinsically wrong with that statement I'm surprised you don't see the fallacies in your statement.

 

She is either not as womanly as you claim, or you are far more motional than the average male. To name off one of many discrepancies you fail to acknowledge. Because in order for the two of you to truly be equals you have to share gender traits.

 

Can't have it both ways, sorry.

[Sunkissedpatio]

The young woman with the old dude does not love him. Many of them cheat with men their own age or even younger. If he were to somehow lose it all she would ditch him in a heartbeat. That isn't love. In no way do I want that when I am old.

 

It's irrelevant what you and I may want, I'm responding to your point that you say "you can't buy love" People buy love all the time. Relationships are far more transactional than we care to admit.

 

I gave an extreme example to illustrate the point.

[Woggle]

There is so much intrinsically wrong with that statement I'm surprised you don't see the fallacies in your statement.

 

She is either not as womanly as you claim, or you are far more motional than the average male. To name off one of many discrepancies you fail to acknowledge. Because in order for the two of you to truly be equals you have to share gender traits.

 

Can't have it both ways, sorry.

 

I don't believe in placing men and women in boxes anyway. She very much looks like a woman but she has interests that can be considered manly such as her liking video games and the fact that she would rather listen to hard rock than boy bands or pop any day of the week. She hated Backstreet Boys and Spice Girls when they were first out. I myself couldn't care less about sports. This doesn't make her any less of a woman or me any less of a man and us sharing finances doesn't either.

[Woggle]

It's irrelevant what you and I may want, I'm responding to your point that you say "you can't buy love" People buy love all the time. Relationships are far more transactional than we care to admit.

 

I gave an extreme example to illustrate the point.

 

But that isn't love. It might be affection and attention but it isn't love. Love involves actually caring about another human being rather than using them for something. In this case he is using her for sex and arm candy and she is using him for money. If they both know the score and are happy with it who am I to judge but it is not love if it is dependent on the size of his bank account or the size of her breasts or whatever.

[Sunkissedpatio]

I don't believe in placing men and women in boxes anyway.

 

Oh ok so sometimes you tell people you are woman and other times you tell them you are a man then. I get it. Cool! I can respect that.

 

Sure let's have a gender neutral bathroom at every public establishment that is the correct thing to do.

 

All kidding aside...

 

C'mon both genders come with their own set of unique traits that are scientifically proven to differ from each other. You may believe in not putting genders in boxes, maybe when it comes to completing logic tests, or choosing careers but each gender is scientifically defined with its own set of criteria and make-up above and beyond the physical traits.

 

For that very reason we are not "equals" if we are then why even call yourself a man? Call yourself a woman.

[Sunkissedpatio]

We are equal in the sense that we are humans but we are distinctly different.

 

Saying men and women are "equal" is like saying dogs and crocodiles are equal.

[Woggle]

Dogs and crocodiles are a different species which men and women are not. A dog and a crocodile can't have sex and produce a dogodile or a crocodog and they generally don't mingle and mate.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Dogs and crocodiles are a different species which men and women are not. A dog and a crocodile can't have sex and produce a dogodile or a crocodog and they generally don't mingle and mate.

 

 

Forget all this "who pays" nonsense, I want to see a crocodog. NO, I want to see a dogodile. NO, I want to see a crocodog.

[xxoo]

They thought things we going well.

 

When they decided to have sex with you, right? But you knew they weren't.

 

Just like the man who thinks things are going well when they pay, and in fact she is just using him. Users are alike.

[Shining One]

When they decided to have sex with you, right? But you knew they weren't.

 

Just like the man who thinks things are going well when they pay, and in fact she is just using him. Users are alike.

My decisions are made post-sex. I've had instances in which we had sex on the first/second date and I gave it a few more dates to see if she would reciprocate. I've also had instances where sex didn't happen and I made the same decision.

[xxoo]

My decisions are made post-sex. I've had instances in which we had sex on the first/second date and I gave it a few more dates to see if she would reciprocate. I've also had instances where sex didn't happen and I made the same decision.

 

There really is no reason for anyone to feel misled, whether by paying or having sex when not leading to a relationship.

 

Personally, if I am not interested in a relationship or losing interest, I will make that abundantly clear before engaging in sex or accepting gifts/meals.

[PrettyEmily77]

This argument has been going on for years and the fact is, men are not stingy at all. Not in my experience. A select few profess to have a hang-up with paying, online, behind computer screens.

 

True. In their overwhelming majority, men are not stingy, and women are not after a meal ticket. What most people want is find a compatible partner.

 

If you want to get a sense of how 'equal' the R is likely to be, the only answer is time, and going through some **** together as a couple. Paying for the first 4 dates, getting annoyed at the lack of reciprocation, having sex anyway and nexting your date for not being a mind reader shows exactly zero sign of reciprocation, or lack thereof.

 

Certainly, it doesn't show the woman how much of an egalitarian the guy actually is, seeing as his claims are not backed up by action at this point. So claims of cooking, cleaning, chores coming from a single guy who lives on his own are just that - claims.

 

And modern women want that type of guarantee. Again, no way of knowing within a few dates.

 

Assessing tens of people a month over this particular criterion alone is puzzling, to me.

[No_Go]

Hah 4 dates is kind of normal for sex (for adults, not teenagers). I 'gave it up' every time around then and still have had just 3 partners total, men stick around. Maybe because I pay

 

Then you did use them for sex

 

If it bothered you so much that you were paying and they weren't reciprocating you would have bailed before date 4. C'mon!!

 

On the flip side if she is sleeping with you after 4 dates then chances are she is not looking for a meal ticket, she gives it up pretty quickly and still sticks around so she clearly wants more.

[Shining One]

If you want to get a sense of how 'equal' the R is likely to be, the only answer is time, and going through some **** together as a couple. Paying for the first 4 dates, getting annoyed at the lack of reciprocation, having sex anyway and nexting your date for not being a mind reader shows exactly zero sign of reciprocation, or lack thereof.

How much money (both are investing time, so that's equal) do you a believe a man should unilaterally invest before determining a woman isn't going to reciprocate?

Certainly, it doesn't show the woman how much of an egalitarian the guy actually is, seeing as his claims are not backed up by action at this point. So claims of cooking, cleaning, chores coming from a single guy who lives on his own are just that - claims.

These are claims I'm more than happy to put to the test. Most women choose not to partake in a home cooked meal at my house early on. Those that have can attest to my cooking, cleaning, and household chores.

And modern women want that type of guarantee. Again, no way of knowing within a few dates.

What solution would you recommend that doesn't involve one party taking more risk than the other?

Assessing tens of people a month over this particular criterion alone is puzzling, to me.

This is certainly not the only criterion I use to determine relationship potential. While this is a common deal-breaker, I have ended things for other reasons. Strict religious reasons and desire for children come to mind.

[xxoo]

Is it any surprise the women respond positively to a man willing to take a risk to woo her?

 

It seems as natural to me as men responding positively to a small waist and shapely hips. It advertises strong mate potential.

[PrettyEmily77]

How much money (both are investing time, so that's equal) do you a believe a man should unilaterally invest before determining a woman isn't going to reciprocate?

 

Well I don't have a 'dating' budget, I don't go on dates with complete strangers, I don't stay around with a guy I'm not interested in, I don't reject people without giving reason (as a matter of courtesy - I've always been asked but would do it whether they asked or not) and certainly not after sex, and I (like most women I know so not an exception) always offer reciprocation, so I can't answer that question.

 

These are claims I'm more than happy to put to the test

 

I'm not disbelieving you (plus I have no way to check!) but with all due respect, when you are living alone, that's kind of normal... That says nothing about the kind of guy you are likely to be when in a committed relationship, though.

 

What solution would you recommend that doesn't involve one party taking more risk than the other?

 

Time. Plus I don't mind taking a risk anyway and have enough experience to know that equality at all times at all levels is a myth. I want a guy who has my back all the time (as I would have his), not just when it's his turn and after careful consideration of the risks involved.

 

This is certainly not the only criterion I use to determine relationship potential. While this is a common deal-breaker, I have ended things for other reasons. Strict religious reasons and desire for children come to mind.

 

Ok, but I'm only going on what you say on this thread...Plus you don't give those non-reciprocating women the courtesy of an explanation.

 

I'm for clear communication from day one so I don't go round expecting stuff of people without spelling my expectations out first, because I don't like to trap people unbeknownst to them.

[Shining One]

I (like most women I know so not an exception) always offer reciprocation

As I mentioned earlier, this is likely a regional and/or cultural thing. Most of the women I've gone on dates with did not reciprocate in any fashion.

Time.

If time is the only investment required, I'm okay with that. I dated a woman for 18 months with no sex and taking turns paying for things. Things didn't work out, but I didn't feel "used" at the end.

I want a guy who has my back all the time (as I would have his), not just when it's his turn and after careful consideration of the risks involved.

This seems like more of a developed relationship requirement, not an early dating requirement.

I'm for clear communication from day one so I don't go round expecting stuff of people without spelling my expectations out first, because I don't like to trap people unbeknownst to them.

I'm willing to bet that most of the women who require man to pay for the first date or all early dates don't tell him that. Thus, I imagine you're an exception at least on that front. Edited September 3, 2016 by Shining One

[PrettyEmily77]

As I mentioned earlier, this is likely a regional and/or cultural thing. Most of the women I've gone on dates with did not reciprocate in any fashion

 

Most of the men I know would never accept a woman paying or offering to pay so yes, cultural differences.

 

If time is the only investment required, I'm okay with that

 

It usually is. Other stuff are just means to get to know someone, IMO.

 

I'm willing to bet that most of the women who require man to pay for the first date or all early dates don't tell him that. Thus, I imagine you're an exception at least on that front.

 

Most people I know believe it is easier to find a like-minded partner if you actually speak your mind about what you want, so I doubt I'm an exception.

 

It's not a full proof recipe for success by any stretch, and I only take a risk when I feel the guy is worth it, but I'd personally rather go in with a positive spirit and not think of either 'using' or 'being used' by someone. Plus it's nice to have a sense that the guy is willing to give it his best shot to show his interest.

[Sanman]

Most of the men I know would never accept a woman paying or offering to pay so yes, cultural differences.

 

It usually is. Other stuff are just means to get to know someone, IMO.

 

Most people I know believe it is easier to find a like-minded partner if you actually speak your mind about what you want, so I doubt I'm an exception.

 

It's not a full proof recipe for success by any stretch, and I only take a risk when I feel the guy is worth it, but I'd personally rather go in with a positive spirit and not think of either 'using' or 'being used' by someone. Plus it's nice to have a sense that the guy is willing to give it his best shot to show his interest.

 

 

 

Speaking your mind and getting to know someone is important. I think one of the biggest problems is people not taking enough time to get to know each other. Online dating, speed dating, and other gimmicks are a popular method of dating. In addition to that, the rules change very often. One of the reasons I believe it worked out with my wife is that we has some distance so we got to know each other over the phone for a few months before she moved closer to where I lived. The question of a first date with her (to woo a person that I already knew about) was very different from other dated I have been on where the first dates are me paying to have a conversation with a stranger I may not even come to like. I remember paying for drinks and meeting a woman who was disabled and purposely hid the disability in her photos and online profile. Not sure I am supposed to be happy paying for a date under those circumstances. Honesty helps, I just see fewer people (especially younger people) being honest. Older individuals, 30s and up, tens to be a bit less a out playing games .

[sarah999]

I am so confused, is the bf supposed to spend money for you or always go dutch? I keep reading conflicting things on the internet.

 

My bf of a few months likes to split things right down the middle. ...Usually at the end of a dinner at a restaurant, we both reach for our cards to pay for the check and go dutch...OKay with me... But sometimes if he paid for something the day before, like groceries to cook with, or gas to drive somewhere, the next day, say... after dinner he will just say I should pay. It's happened a few times. Sometimes the dinner I end up paying is more expensive than whatever he paid the day before. I never not offer to pay. ...I do find it weird to be "told" to pay.

 

and my parents asked about this and they are very critical of my bf because they think the guy should pay more than the girl. I am not worried so much about me shelling out the money, but more about the principle of dating and what should be normal in a relationship... And by the way, both work and earn the same amount and are financially stable. We do not live together.

 

is this normal?