The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[Bastile]

I always like your posts and this is no exception - great advice. I guess it's disappointing when I have that realization of "she's not LTR material". The last one came the closest but blew it up after a few months.

 

Aye. That's the way I dated for ages, and it's tailored to my introverted attitude.

 

It's very potent, and you can give it a spin if you like. It filters people for their worth, and keeps girls at a good interest often wanting to ltr.

 

Doesn't mean they are all of the appropriate quality though. In fact, very few are. I eventually started to settle with one girl, stopped approaching and seeing others, only to have her sleep with someone else. Completely moronic thing to do, and blew it up like you said.

 

The problem is that it's a high intensity form of dating, which I can no longer really sustain. And now I got a ltr taste, I consider it more.

 

I can't really go through that lifestyle again, I don't think. However, I would probably need to in order to get the level of quality I want for a LTR.

 

So, I'm going to somehow need to get better results, better quality women, with less effort. How on earth do I manage that one?

[littleblackheart]

I don't date women I find unattractive, but looks are just a component.

 

Im pleanty happy with a girl who is pretty and not "hot" in the typical sense (and tend to find them more attractive the better the personality) but I like women who are thin. Thin is rare for women in their 40s around here it seems which may explain the expectations of them.

 

Maybe that's your problem right here; maybe your competition doesn't mind spending the cash on regular dinner dates.

 

FWIW, there are plenty of thin women the world over who aren't expected to be wined and dined so maybe you should consider moving, if thin is a non-negotiable for you.

[preraph]

I'm far from broke and I'm very handy. I'll spend money where it's worth it.

 

Interesting how you call your female friend "frugal" but guys of the same mindset are "cheap".

 

I called her boyfriend frugal too. There is a difference between stingy and frugal, and I am making that distinction.

 

I think your location is a big part of your problem with women and money. Around here, a woman would invite you to join her at her home for dinner eventually or cook breakfast for you probably. But usually not right away. And she's still want you to take her out regularly while dating.

Edited July 18, 2017 by preraph

[spiderowl]

I don't know what kind of women you are dating but it sounds as though you are starting off in one way and then pulling back and expecting them to adapt. I don't think it is mean but it depends how your behaviour is coming across to them. I have friends who are generous and then there is one who I can clearly see is counting the pennies, no matter how generous I am with him. It is as though he is expecting people to try to do him out of money. I do find that off-putting. It's the inherent lack of trust and also judgement of others that is a turn-off, not being responsible with money.

 

Most women would be entirely happy to share. However, if they feel you have suddenly switched and have started to be controlling with finances, that would cause them to think twice. Having said that, I don't think anyone should take a guy and his generosity for granted.

[SevenCity]

Maybe that's your problem right here; maybe your competition doesn't mind spending the cash on regular dinner dates.

 

FWIW, there are plenty of thin women the world over who aren't expected to be wined and dined so maybe you should consider moving, if thin is a non-negotiable for you.

 

I totally agree. Guys of lesser value often use money / gifts to make up for lacking in other areas. It's not new as guys have been using money to woo women forever. A certain expectation is created as a result.

 

But, there are good guys who do it too. I think of one in particular who is around my age and has $3k To his name, has roommates, but feels obliged to pay for everything on dates and "cries" when he gets home.

 

In that position, I would be more concerned about my future than throwing a meal down a girl's throat.

[rushed]

In my adventures in dating, I've run across more than one woman who has complained I don't spend / take them out enough (they are not spending much of anything).

 

Haha, this was me in the beginning stages of dating my boyfriend (except I did spend a lot on him). I'd always pay my half of the bill if I didn't pick it up completely, pay for our drinks, or pick him up some food. He rarely paid for the both of us, always asking for my half. One night I just snapped. I had given him like $20 in cash for something that required cash earlier, and bought him breakfast and lunch later. When we went out to dinner and I got soup that was only about $7 and he asked for my half when he went to go pay I realized I couldn't do it anymore.

 

We talked and I let him know that an important part of being in a relationship for me was taking care of my partner AND my partner taking care of me. It took a few more talks, but he eventually got it. He's always first to go pay for our meals now, but more often than not, I'll take care of it. It just feels good to have him pay for me sometimes.

 

The other week we were casually talking about it over dinner, and he said where he's from (New York) woman are very independent and always just pay their half. I told him that for me growing up, we (meaning friends and/or boyfriend/girlfriends) always took care of each other. So perhaps it might be a poor thing. Growing up poor, we were always looking out for each other. If a friend didn't have money for food, another happily paid for them or shared, because we know they'd get us back somehow in the future. It's just everyone looking out for the other, and it would all equal out somehow. When I tried this approach with my boyfriend it was just me putting in and putting in and never getting anything back, which is why it became upsetting to me.

[Shining One]

OP, you are clearly looking for women who are in the minority in your specific area. I faced that same problem myself. The solution: Multi-dating and catching/releasing. Date lots of women and allow them an opportunity to demonstrate their willingness to be contributing partners. If they do not, drop them and keep searching. Three years ago, I found a beautiful woman who paid for our second, fourth, and every other alternating date until we became exclusive. It took a lot of time, but I enjoyed the search and I'm happy with the results.

 

Remember, women are not the prize. A mutually fulfilling and beneficial relationship is the prize. You are both working towards that prize.

[elaine567]

It is a bait and switch.

At the start you pay for everything and take her out, but once dating you start counting the pennies and want to stay home to eat... Your main priority changes to paying off your house...

YOU present yourself originally as someone you are not, so no wonder they get upset.

 

YOU also said on a previous thread that your preference is for Asian women and in some Asian cultures then women can expect men to pay full stop, so this may be more about culture than entitlement.

[RecentChange]

No, I'm in the suburbs of NYC and have been fishing in that liberal pool.

 

Liberal doesn't seem to translate i to paying their share.

 

Interesting. Do you think conservative women are going to be more likely to pull out their check books? My knee jerk reaction is that they would be more likely to adhere to traditional gender roles, which places the male as the provider, and thus the payer for dates.

 

I grew up in a very liberal household, in a very liberal part of the county (San Francisco), and one thing my dad hammered home, which has always stuck with me was “never expect a man to take care of you”. And I haven’t…. perhaps it was that mentality that led me to becoming the breadwinner, and head of household in my own home.

 

All that said, while I have always expected to pay my own way, while I have always pulled out my wallet and offered to pay on dates (at the very least I will try to slip some cash in for the tip *and I bring cash for this purpose*) – I appreciate a man who assumes a “taking care of things” role and refuses my offers to pay.

 

Its part of the masculine / feminine dance, it is a traditional notion. He provides masculine security and “provisions” she provides sweetness and feminine attention.

 

This also runs deep socially, there are men who don’t want to be seen with the woman paying. They feel like it’s a knock on their masculinity.

 

Heck, even in my own household, while I take care of all of the major bills and expenses out of my account, he pays for our entertainment / dining / drinking / nights out. A subconscious part of that is that he gets to be the man and take care of the check, he will be the one going to the bar to order another round etc – not the little lady (let me tell you, the times *I* have gone to order for us, men trying to hit on me have straight commented on “why isn’t your man ordering?”)

 

 

I write a restaurant blog and I do manage to eat out for anywhere between $7 and $20 per person. If I spend $20 on eating out for just me, it's a special treat. Maybe you live in NYC or something where everything is overpriced. Not my problem. But where I live, there's great taco places and other places.

 

$7 -$20!? I assure you that does not go far in NYC. I am in SF, and you can’t even buy a sandwich for $7. Two beers, three small plates set us back $60 (excluding tip) Sunday night, and that’s pretty standard for some light fare. A dinner is going to start at $50 a person.

[littleblackheart]

I totally agree. Guys of lesser value often use money / gifts to make up for lacking in other areas. It's not new as guys have been using money to woo women forever. A certain expectation is created as a result.

 

But, there are good guys who do it too. I think of one in particular who is around my age and has $3k To his name, has roommates, but feels obliged to pay for everything on dates and "cries" when he gets home.

 

In that position, I would be more concerned about my future than throwing a meal down a girl's throat.

 

I can't really comment on the 'lesser value' part because I'm sure that plenty of men who have the disposable income and enjoy treating their dates as a habit don't have these problems.

 

IMO, if you are looking for a 50/50 relationship, it may be wiser to start with that from the off instead of doing what you do, ie pay for all the meals in the hope that a woman will offer to pay her part. Don't leave it to fate if it's important to you.

[jay1983]

He can try that from the get go, but it won't get him far.

[SevenCity]

Interesting. Do you think conservative women are going to be more likely to pull out their check books? My knee jerk reaction is that they would be more likely to adhere to traditional gender roles, which places the male as the provider, and thus the payer for dates.

 

I grew up in a very liberal household, in a very liberal part of the county (San Francisco), and one thing my dad hammered home, which has always stuck with me was “never expect a man to take care of you”. And I haven’t…. perhaps it was that mentality that led me to becoming the breadwinner, and head of household in my own home.

 

All that said, while I have always expected to pay my own way, while I have always pulled out my wallet and offered to pay on dates (at the very least I will try to slip some cash in for the tip *and I bring cash for this purpose*) – I appreciate a man who assumes a “taking care of things” role and refuses my offers to pay.

 

Its part of the masculine / feminine dance, it is a traditional notion. He provides masculine security and “provisions” she provides sweetness and feminine attention.

 

This also runs deep socially, there are men who don’t want to be seen with the woman paying. They feel like it’s a knock on their masculinity.

 

Heck, even in my own household, while I take care of all of the major bills and expenses out of my account, he pays for our entertainment / dining / drinking / nights out. A subconscious part of that is that he gets to be the man and take care of the check, he will be the one going to the bar to order another round etc – not the little lady (let me tell you, the times *I* have gone to order for us, men trying to hit on me have straight commented on “why isn’t your man ordering?”)

 

 

 

 

$7 -$20!? I assure you that does not go far in NYC. I am in SF, and you can’t even buy a sandwich for $7. Two beers, three small plates set us back $60 (excluding tip) Sunday night, and that’s pretty standard for some light fare. A dinner is going to start at $50 a person.

 

It's hard to say. My last two serious relationships were with feminine women who were also generous and adhered to traditional rolls. I guess that's the thing - lack of paying is lack of generosity and as Bastile put it they are like leaches. Take take take and never give.

 

I recall this one girl I dated said (after our $70 first date) "Do you need any money?" I later found out that if I said yes she would not have gone out with me for a second. Moreover, she said she won't pay for anything until we were engaged. That was the end of that.

 

I guess I'll have to keep trolling through women until I find one who is worth a LTR.

[littleblackheart]

He can try that from the get go, but it won't get him far.

 

It may take time, but I think ultimately it'll save time and money in the long run, and it will go some way in helping him find someone who is on the same page financially.

 

And it can't be worse than getting stuck paying for everything and giving mixed signals to the girls he's dating (unless OP had an ulterior motive, ie bedding them asap).

[SevenCity]

He can try that from the get go, but it won't get him far.

 

Exactly. It's so crazy that one person (girl or guy) would be expected to shoulder the entire financial burden.

 

Moreover, I could not go out with anyone and have them pick up the tab all the time. I was always taught to pull your own weight. I've had friends who make considerably more than me and I would insist on paying my share.

 

I've seen guys who can do it. Everyone is buying rounds and when their turn comes up they are mysteriously absent. I find it disgusting which is why women who take and never give turn me off.

[phineas]

OP,

stop dating brokeass 40yr old's who date sugar daddy's in their 50's.

yes, 50's.

I can't imagine a dude in his 40's with cash wasting it on a woman over 35.

 

I know I wouldn't.

And lol at op being cheap.

just LOL!

 

Also LOL at women in their 40's who want to be wined and dined by guys their own age.

Women in their 40's are lucky a guy their age in shape will even date them when he can get younger easily.

[SevenCity]

It may take time, but I think ultimately it'll save time and money in the long run, and it will go some way in helping him find someone who is on the same page financially.

 

And it can't be worse than getting stuck paying for everything and giving mixed signals to the girls he's dating (unless OP had an ulterior motive, ie bedding them asap).

 

No ulterior motive, but of course I try to bed them as soon as possible.

 

I want to find one I can spend the rest of my life with and stop dating forever. Incompatible sex is a deal breaker for me. I'd rather find out sonnet than later.

 

If sex was all I was after I wouldn't walk away as often as I do.

[angel.eyes]

He can try that from the get go, but it won't get him far.

 

Neither will a bait and switch! Pretending to be generous when he obviously isn't won't get him very far. Clearly it's just a facade that he can't even maintain beyond a couple of dates.

 

Instead of trying to date certain women and then ranting about how they expect him to pay, go find women who share his preference for splitting bills and Netflix and chill dates. Railing against other people's preferences and values won't change anything.

 

They'll move on to guys who have no problems paying for dates and going out (every guy i know outside LS) and he'll continue to pretend, then rant and rail when he's frustrated...yet again.

[Shining One]

It is a bait and switch.

At the start you pay for everything and take her out, but once dating you start counting the pennies and want to stay home to eat... Your main priority changes to paying off your house...

YOU present yourself originally as someone you are not, so no wonder they get upset.

While I don't subscribe to traditional courtship, isn't it, by design, a bait and switch? Man does various thing to "win over" a woman while she does nothing but observe his actions. Once she is "won over" the relationship changes as she starts doing her part (whatever that may be).

[littleblackheart]

No ulterior motive, but of course I try to bed them as soon as possible.

 

I want to find one I can spend the rest of my life with and stop dating forever. Incompatible sex is a deal breaker for me. I'd rather find out sonnet than later.

 

If sex was all I was after I wouldn't walk away as often as I do.

 

So in a matter of a few posts, I have managed to gather that you are looking for a 50/50 financial relationship with a thin woman who lives in or around NYC and is happy to establish sexual compatibility at the earliest opportunity - that's not an impossible task, but you seem to have a lot of very specific requirements!

 

Are you using OLD? If so, are you spelling out these requirements clearly?

[angel.eyes]

You mentioned that you're part of the bridge and tunnel crowd. Are you trying to date women in the city? Or are you focused solely on women who are in the suburbs like you?

[divegrl]

The problem is you're dating dime pieces.......

[jay1983]

Neither will a bait and switch! Pretending to be generous when he obviously isn't won't get him very far. Clearly it's just a facade that he can't even maintain beyond a couple of dates.

 

Instead of trying to date certain women and then ranting about how they expect him to pay, go find women who share his preference for splitting bills and Netflix and chill dates. Railing against other people's preferences and values won't change anything.

 

They'll move on to guys who have no problems paying for dates and going out (every guy i know outside LS) and he'll continue to pretend, then rant and rail when he's frustrated...yet again.

 

Wow, you really went the other way on this. I didn't get that at all. To me he comes off very generous and patient, with nothing going back his way.

 

You come off exactly like the women he's dating.

[Woggle]

Just don't pay. I have barely spent a dime on a woman I wasn't serious with and even then if she started acting as it if it were my manly duty to open my wallet for her then I will be more stingy. If you want me to be generous never act as if you are entitled to it. The liberal NYC transplant types are actually worse than traditional women because at least traditional women live up to their end of traditional. If you don't use money as bait to attract a woman then you will not attract money hungry women.

[preraph]

Interesting. Do you think conservative women are going to be more likely to pull out their check books? My knee jerk reaction is that they would be more likely to adhere to traditional gender roles, which places the male as the provider, and thus the payer for dates.

 

I grew up in a very liberal household, in a very liberal part of the county (San Francisco), and one thing my dad hammered home, which has always stuck with me was “never expect a man to take care of you”. And I haven’t…. perhaps it was that mentality that led me to becoming the breadwinner, and head of household in my own home.

 

All that said, while I have always expected to pay my own way, while I have always pulled out my wallet and offered to pay on dates (at the very least I will try to slip some cash in for the tip *and I bring cash for this purpose*) – I appreciate a man who assumes a “taking care of things” role and refuses my offers to pay.

 

Its part of the masculine / feminine dance, it is a traditional notion. He provides masculine security and “provisions” she provides sweetness and feminine attention.

 

This also runs deep socially, there are men who don’t want to be seen with the woman paying. They feel like it’s a knock on their masculinity.

 

Heck, even in my own household, while I take care of all of the major bills and expenses out of my account, he pays for our entertainment / dining / drinking / nights out. A subconscious part of that is that he gets to be the man and take care of the check, he will be the one going to the bar to order another round etc – not the little lady (let me tell you, the times *I* have gone to order for us, men trying to hit on me have straight commented on “why isn’t your man ordering?”)

 

 

 

 

$7 -$20!? I assure you that does not go far in NYC. I am in SF, and you can’t even buy a sandwich for $7. Two beers, three small plates set us back $60 (excluding tip) Sunday night, and that’s pretty standard for some light fare. A dinner is going to start at $50 a person.

 

Well, hopefully people earn more money to make up for it. I feel the prices here are sky high, but I know NYC is much worse, or the worst, sounds like SF is too. Just higher cost of living. Not sure eating out is practical unless your income is able to handle the cost of eating out.

 

I spent $5.40 for some delicious nachos yesterday for lunch. I have lifetime free queso at one place and when i go I buy enchiladas, too, and they're $8.95 for enchiladas, and two sides. And it's a nice place, too. Plus free chips and salsa at all Mex restaurants.

 

My italian place in my neighborhood has lunch specials $7 for whatever plate of pasta you want and comes with tea and a salad and delicious hot bread. It's super cheap and it's really good.

 

The other day I went to a fancy New Orleans food place I love and all I had was a salad and a blooming onion and with tip and all, it was close to $20, so you can spend more if you really want to, but there's really no need.

 

Dallas has over 7,000 restaurants.

Edited July 19, 2017 by preraph

[preraph]

OP,

stop dating brokeass 40yr old's who date sugar daddy's in their 50's.

yes, 50's.

I can't imagine a dude in his 40's with cash wasting it on a woman over 35.

 

I know I wouldn't.

And lol at op being cheap.

just LOL!

 

Also LOL at women in their 40's who want to be wined and dined by guys their own age.

Women in their 40's are lucky a guy their age in shape will even date them when he can get younger easily.

 

Well, if you go down in quality, you can usually find someone younger, but they are the ones most likely to be after your money. All I know is I always ended up dating younger guys until I was 40 at which time, my life changed course and I just wasn't trying to date.

 

I know it's hard for the skeptics to believe, and even myself sometimes, but there are still some guys out there of different ages who are just nice guys who want to be nice to a woman just naturally. Makes them feel good. Likewise, there's lots of nice women who will treat men well.