The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[jimbo]

Nope, you aren't looking at it wrong. You've got an entitled princess on your hands, one who tries to dance both sides of the philosophical argument as it suits her. There really is no way to support that mentality. Saying she's old school is not a trump card. And that one about, the woman should offer but the man should pay is nothing less than absurd.

 

I wonder how agitated she'd be if you said it's right that women are paid .70 on the dollar, by virtue of weaker, less intelligent, and less reliable.

 

I commend you for telling her how you view it and not just sucking it up for access to vagina. You know this is going to be unresolvable, don't you? People with this mentality are not affected by reason in the least. I think you should pull the trigger, avoid being the dumpee, and get on with finding a woman who has actually looked up the word "equality" in the dictionary.

 

It was a very weird conversation. It just made me think I was, in a way, paying for her company and companionship.

[chinadiary]

It was a very weird conversation. It just made me think I was, in a way, paying for her company and companionship.

 

Which is, in my opinion, a very old fashioned view of what can still at times constitute marriage. The man brings money to the table and the woman brings beauty and domestic skills. Except it doesn't sound as if she'll be domesticated.

[jimbo]

In her defense, she did say, when she's married, she'll have no problem with cooking, laundry and rearing kids. Though, right now, she has a house cleaner at her parents home. She also cleaned up after each dinner surprisingly well (I cooked). Others I've been with, including my ex-wife, just put the dishes in the sink. This one scrubbed them and put them in the dish washer; which I thought it was a good sign. But this conversation really was a bit shocking to me. I said you earn nearly six figures, her reply, so do you. And, that is why we should do 50/50. That is fair. She lost it. Very upset. She said that wasn't going to work for her. I said I think you are blowing things out of proportion. You have a good night and enjoy the time with your friends. She said, you too.

 

Didn't end well. She calls me daily, so I wouldn't be surprised of a call tomorrow. Plus, she was supposed to come over tomorrow and spend time with me. If she calls, I will revisit the conversation. We've not been intimate yet, very touchy, but not intimate yet. She had the flu a few weeks ago, so that threw things off.

 

Anyways, I think we're at a stalemate.

[Gr8fuln2020]

In her defense, she did say, when she's married, she'll have no problem with cooking, laundry and rearing kids. Though, right now, she has a house cleaner at her parents home. She also cleaned up after each dinner surprisingly well (I cooked). Others I've been with, including my ex-wife, just put the dishes in the sink. This one scrubbed them and put them in the dish washer; which I thought it was a good sign. But this conversation really was a bit shocking to me. I said you earn nearly six figures, her reply, so do you. And, that is why we should do 50/50. That is fair. She lost it. Very upset. She said that wasn't going to work for her. I said I think you are blowing things out of proportion. You have a good night and enjoy the time with your friends. She said, you too.

 

Didn't end well. She calls me daily, so I wouldn't be surprised of a call tomorrow. Plus, she was supposed to come over tomorrow and spend time with me. If she calls, I will revisit the conversation. We've not been intimate yet, very touchy, but not intimate yet. She had the flu a few weeks ago, so that threw things off.

 

Anyways, I think we're at a stalemate.

 

I apologize if I missed this, but what and how was her relationship with her ex? Did her ex take advantage of her financial status?

[jimbo]

She was very open about this. Her ex was on wall street and made a lot of cash. However, as soon as it came it, it went right out the door. She said he was very demanding and wanted her parents to flip the wedding bill. She found out he was doing serious drugs (hid for several years), they never had sex or kiss, and she called off the wedding. He did, however, buy her a 3.5k wedding ring with an appraisal she says of 25k. I said, I'd never pay that. She did back off, and said it's not the amount of the money for the ring, whatever my fiancee can afford.

 

She certainly has high tastes, and I've often said, I am not sure if I can afford the lifestyle you are looking for. Her retort was I spend a lot on my partner and the people I love, I only expect the same. I then said, luckily, I do not expect or want anything pricey. Just want someone I can trust, who's honest and doesn't lie.

 

We seem to agree on everything else. However, this money thing may be an a problem. She says, she'll have a sizable inheritance, and I said good for her. Means little to me. Not sure if it's true or not. She does provide a lot of information about her life; even though I never asked for it. I am not sure if she's trying to gain my trust, or what.

 

Very strange situation. It's hard for me to gauge how to proceed. I will always fall on logic over sexual desire. Logic tells me to bring it up again and try to find common ground. If not, show her the door. I am not looking for a trophy gf or wife.

[chinadiary]

A new take on this. You're both late 30s. Her biological clock is ticking. She has fixed opinions about money but is trying to cover them a bit. She wants marriage soon.

 

You'll be footing the bil if you're her significant other. Her mixed messages are trying to lure you in. She may have a big inheritance but she'll have big expenditure too.

[jimbo]

Thought that too. She froze 20+ eggs of hers at 33. She has time. As for a wedding, she said, she wanted something small.

 

I also find it amazing how many women I date always talk about marriage and kids. Certainly important, but a bit early. No?

[alphamale]

I also find it amazing how many women I date always talk about marriage and kids.

join the club bro

[joseb]

Sounds like she wants a marriage and kids asap, and the only real requirement is that the guy has to pay for all.

 

I'd be long gone by now, but it's up to you if that's what you sign up for.

[Ruby Slippers]

I think she's being pretty clear about what she wants. You obviously don't like it and don't agree, but you seem to not want to accept what she's telling you.

 

If she's getting "agitated" and you're already feeling you're not on the same page about money, I think that's a pretty clear sign this isn't going to work because you aren't compatible in your views on money.

[jimbo]

She says she wants a traditional relationship, you do not. That is where your problem lies. Now, if she is willing to do her part in a traditional relationship, cooking, cleaning, and taking care of your children, then IMO, there is nothing wrong with that. However, there is nothing wrong with your way of seeing things, where everyone splits things equally. I have done both. It is also worth noting that traditionally, a woman's family paid for a wedding.

 

Seems to me that you have a decision to make here.

 

Only thing traditional about this is that she implies the man to pay for most things. She doesn't know how to cook, which is fine, I do. However, her extent to clean up is the dishes. The rest of the home will be a cleaning service. Also, she's only open to rearing the kids til school.

 

More of a hybrid traditional relationship. Perhaps, a traditional financial relationship.

 

What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine? She zig zags on what she wants.

[alphamale]

I'd be long gone by now,...

me too joseb

[newyorker11356]

In that case, she better be smokin' hot and work wonders in the bedroom.

 

Haha, this.

[some_username1]

In her defense, she did say, when she's married, she'll have no problem with cooking, laundry and rearing kids. Though, right now, she has a house cleaner at her parents home. She also cleaned up after each dinner surprisingly well (I cooked). Others I've been with, including my ex-wife, just put the dishes in the sink. This one scrubbed them and put them in the dish washer; which I thought it was a good sign. But this conversation really was a bit shocking to me. I said you earn nearly six figures, her reply, so do you. And, that is why we should do 50/50. That is fair. She lost it. Very upset. She said that wasn't going to work for her. I said I think you are blowing things out of proportion. You have a good night and enjoy the time with your friends. She said, you too.

 

Didn't end well. She calls me daily, so I wouldn't be surprised of a call tomorrow. Plus, she was supposed to come over tomorrow and spend time with me. If she calls, I will revisit the conversation. We've not been intimate yet, very touchy, but not intimate yet. She had the flu a few weeks ago, so that threw things off.

 

Anyways, I think we're at a stalemate.

 

The real acid test OP is to sell the dishwasher on the quiet. When she comes round and asks 'Where is the dishwasher?!' tell her that you are looking right at it. Her reaction will tell you everything you need to know about what she REALLY thinks about tradition.....

[jimbo]

In that case, she better be smokin' hot and work wonders in the bedroom.

 

Sadly, she is quite attractive and she knows it. Have no idea about the sex as we've not gotten there yet. Other things, but not that. Looks are important, but so is the connection.

 

Just looking for ways to meet in the middle.

[jimbo]

The real acid test OP is to sell the dishwasher on the quiet. When she comes round and asks 'Where is the dishwasher?!' tell her that you are looking right at it. Her reaction will tell you everything you need to know about what she REALLY thinks about tradition.....

 

LOL. I need the dishwasher. I cook daily.

[JuneL]

I found it odd that she has accumulated 5k credit card debt even though she's living pretty many much rent free and has a decent income. I think such high maintenance women probably spend much time grooming themselves, and expect to be taken care of financially. They should aim for men who make a lot more.

[CryForNoOne]

I actually went to break down her free cash flow. She has the money to afford an apt., however, she wants to live in a certain area, which, she could still technically afford, however, it would be very tight. She also lives in the metro NYC suburbs, and rent for a place where she wants to live is around 2200 + utilities and cable = around 2500. Her net take home is 4800.00.

 

She also has 20000 in student loans, 5000 in some CC debt, insurance at 100 a month, cell at 125 a month, lease at 425 a month, metro card at 320 a month, NYC subway at 100 a month.

 

Amazes me on how much money goes away. I found her a nice place at 1600 a month, but she didn't like the area. I found it weird too that she lived at home at 37, but the last couple before her also lived at home. Not sure if that is something standard in this area. I've been on my own since 18, so I cannot relate. However, she does have campaign taste with beer pockets. Again, this is the norm.

 

I was impressed the on the first two dates though. First one, she paid for the drinks, I paid for the dinner. Second one, she paid for the lunch and I paid for the painting class.

 

However, today's conversation and the way she was agitated bothered me a bit. Seems like many women around here expect the man to pay for everything once things get going.

 

These numbers make absolutely no sense at all. Someone who makes $8K a month and lives at home could knock out $25k in student loans and credit card debt in 6 months. Even with all the expenses you listed, her bills don't exceed $1100/mo. And $4800 take home is way too little for $8000 gross unless she has zero exemptions, zero deductions, and no retirement plan, and gets a big refund every year...

[chinadiary]

I also find it amazing how many women I date always talk about marriage and kids. Certainly important, but a bit early. No?

 

 

Well, not really. She's late 30s. She may have frozen eggs but 40 is still late to be starting a family. She won't want to waste time if you're diametrically opposed to having children or maybe just not wanting marriage. Or if you're just not compatible in other areas.

[TheFinalWord]

A bit perplexed here.

 

Personally, I think you have a couple of red flags on your hands here.

 

IMHO, conflicting financial philosophies are a primary stressor in relationships. You have identified in her a financial philosophy which you do not accept. Financial disagreements are not a trivial matter, like disagreeing over best movie of the year. Common financial philosophies are a non-negotiable in my mind. If you already are identifying financial points of contention, I would generally recommend to not proceed any further. If there are already disagreements on finances, why do you think building a deeper relationship will mitigate those concerns? The only way to solve philosophical disagreements is through communication. In this context, communication should not be regarded as something for her benefit (i.e. trying to change her mind) but a method to understand her position further so that you can learn to accept it. I recommend to enter into any relationship with the firm realization that the person is not going to change. This is even more true as we age as people are basically set in their ways by the time they're in their 30s, unless they are extremely introspective, which is a rare trait.

 

Second, the fact you are creating a t-chart of a woman you barely know suggests you do not trust her. So now you have two strikes: Disagreement on financial philosophies, lack of trust.

 

What are the redeeming qualities of this dating relationship? Regarding the budget you have calculated, I think the important thing to ask yourself is what do you intend to achieve by creating a financial profile of this woman? Are you creating it for yourself because you don't trust her, and you need to to reinforce your suspicions so you can find a rational reason to end things? Or, are you doing it as you intend to bring it up to her to try to change her? Either way will likely not have a good outcome.

Edited November 26, 2017 by TheFinalWord

[salparadise]

Sadly, she is quite attractive and she knows it. Have no idea about the sex as we've not gotten there yet. Other things, but not that. Looks are important, but so is the connection.

 

Just looking for ways to meet in the middle.

 

That's something I can't deal with either. Combine that with the extreme entitlement mentality, well, it compounds the effect.

 

i know a lot of men can't resist hotties with attitude, but for me there's an inherent repulsion. I have a thoroughly integrated understanding that it's going to be too much work, my best effort is never enough, always on the lookout for a better deal. With few exceptions, such women have learned to leverage their attractiveness and expect the world to beat a path to their door. Not that they're all over me or anything either... it's like we were born on different planets.

 

No sex yet... interesting. Have you tried and she's holding out, are you being the consummate gentleman and waiting for her to green light you? It seems strange to me; based on her age and other circumstances, it seems like it would've happened within 4-5 dates.

 

I think you're running the risk of striking out in three pitches. You pay, no sex, you're the dumpee. I think most guys would've cut their losses already, but if you're determined to ride this all the way you at least ought to be getting laid.

[gbe2015]

Sounds like you experienced what is called a s**t test. Women do it to men all the time, it's their way of testing you. If you think she should have paid half then you should have stood your ground. But you didn't and it cost you her respect. Best to move on. Yes there are guys out there who are beaten down enough to put up with a person like that, don't be that guy.

[jimbo]

Just an update, you guys and girls were right, I was wrong. We went out for dinner that week, I paid. She said she'll pay next time. A couple weeks later, she wanted to go out for drinks, except I do not really drink. A glass a wine here and there, but that is all. She orders a couple of mixed drinks, fried apps (I cannot eat fried food), and an entree. I ordered ginger ale, chips and a fajita. I did say, you recall, it's your turn. She flipped out started to get very upset. She said, the men I go out with and my friends go out with always pay. They are real men. I said what's wrong with switching off? She said, I don't agree. I said. Okay, what about travel? The man should pay for that too. After all, I am a prize to be won. I'm hot and I keep in good shape. I have an amazing career and come from a loving family. Then, she texted someone and started to laugh and smirk. Called I assume her, and said I'm leaving and I am coming to pick you up. See you in 30 mins. Hahaha. She paid for the bill and jetted.

 

Myself and the people sitting around me were all shocked at her reaction at her age. She attempted to reach out the next day, I didn't answer. She then texted, and I did reply, we have different ideals, there's nothing more to say. She said, okay.. Well, at least you got a free meal out of me. Not my fault you have money issues.

 

She continued on, I didn't respond again. However, just for the record, I did take her out several times and paid. She came over my place and I cooked or ordered in, I paid. Each time, she liked a bottle of wine with the meal, I made sure I had one at my place.

 

I am bewildered by this whole experience.

[jimbo]

Well, not really. She's late 30s. She may have frozen eggs but 40 is still late to be starting a family. She won't want to waste time if you're diametrically opposed to having children or maybe just not wanting marriage. Or if you're just not compatible in other areas.

 

Not opposed to having kids or marriage. I am opposed to being used like a human wallet. It's not right for one person, male or female, to have to pay for everything. I've never experienced that before. No middle ground.

[No_Go]

Just an update, you guys and girls were right, I was wrong. We went out for dinner that week, I paid. She said she'll pay next time. A couple weeks later, she wanted to go out for drinks, except I do not really drink. A glass a wine here and there, but that is all. She orders a couple of mixed drinks, fried apps (I cannot eat fried food), and an entree. I ordered ginger ale, chips and a fajita. I did say, you recall, it's your turn. She flipped out started to get very upset. She said, the men I go out with and my friends go out with always pay. They are real men. I said what's wrong with switching off? She said, I don't agree. I said. Okay, what about travel? The man should pay for that too. After all, I am a prize to be won. I'm hot and I keep in good shape. I have an amazing career and come from a loving family. Then, she texted someone and started to laugh and smirk. Called I assume her, and said I'm leaving and I am coming to pick you up. See you in 30 mins. Hahaha. She paid for the bill and jetted.

 

Myself and the people sitting around me were all shocked at her reaction at her age. She attempted to reach out the next day, I didn't answer. She then texted, and I did reply, we have different ideals, there's nothing more to say. She said, okay.. Well, at least you got a free meal out of me. Not my fault you have money issues.

 

She continued on, I didn't respond again. However, just for the record, I did take her out several times and paid. She came over my place and I cooked or ordered in, I paid. Each time, she liked a bottle of wine with the meal, I made sure I had one at my place.

 

I am bewildered by this whole experience.

 

What did I just read :lmao:

 

So good for you that you dodged a bullet with this one. I hope you have had good sex with her. She's technically a prostitute in disguise anyway.