The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[salparadise]

OK, but there are no men like that of course.

Men who have an extreme attitude of entitlement based entirely on gender...

Never happens...

 

Right. How many instances can you cite of a man feeling like a woman is cheap because she insists on splitting the check?

 

The prize to be won / golden vagina syndrome is the mentality underlying this whole topic.

Edited December 20, 2017 by salparadise

[William]

Since the stand-alone thread on paying for dinner dates evolved into a more general 'who should pay' debate, one historically popular here on LoveShack.org, I merged the thread into our consolidated discussion on who should pay for dates. Our poll is open so, if not having voted yet, feel free to, happy holidays and please continue!

[salparadise]

...but if the quotes you mentioned are true (especially the "I don't DO Holiday Inn but I expect the man to pay for 5 star hotels every time" one), the OP's ex-gf certainly sounds like a bullet dodged.

 

Yup, they're true. And I agree about the bullet dodged.

 

What's different about OP's GF is that she's so overt and unsophisticated in the expression. Extreme. Women who are generous (can be in various ways) and cooperative don't come across that way, but when it's all about them... resources expended, accommodations made, etc., without a modicum of reciprocity, it starts looking an awful lot like the world's oldest profession.

[Timshel]

She acts like a debutante, but I do not think she really is. The debutante's that I've known have their own place by this age. It's a reg. sized house she lives in with her parents.

 

No, I do not pay rent, I have my own place with my own mortgage (fun stuff). I pay all my own bills for the last 20+ years. Moving into adulthood is part of life for most people.

 

Home ownership is such a huge responsibility, even beyond a mortgage, though I get your drift. For example, only last week we had a leak in the yard plumbing on 'our side' of the meter, naturally. Plumbers in our area seem to do quite well for themselves.

Since your (ex?) gf doesn't rent, much less own, these life expenses are unfamiliar to her and not being translated in her dating style.

It seems she would fall into the category of going directly from parental care to...husband care. There are people, not only women btw, that follow this financial path.

 

She may find a man who would like to care-take her in marriage and if that is what the man signs up for, shrugs. As you describe her, she does seem insensitive, spoiled and have an entitled disposition.

 

Financial compatibility is one of the biggest indicators of long term relationship success or failure. It seems that you two are not compatible.

 

Good luck Jimbo, a better match awaits.

[jimbo]

Home ownership is such a huge responsibility, even beyond a mortgage, though I get your drift. For example, only last week we had a leak in the yard plumbing on 'our side' of the meter, naturally. Plumbers in our area seem to do quite well for themselves.

Since your (ex?) gf doesn't rent, much less own, these life expenses are unfamiliar to her and not being translated in her dating style.

It seems she would fall into the category of going directly from parental care to...husband care. There are people, not only women btw, that follow this financial path.

 

She may find a man who would like to care-take her in marriage and if that is what the man signs up for, shrugs. As you describe her, she does seem insensitive, spoiled and have an entitled disposition.

 

Financial compatibility is one of the biggest indicators of long term relationship success or failure. It seems that you two are not compatible.

 

Good luck Jimbo, a better match awaits.

 

Been there before. You'd be surprised how much Youtube has helped me learn how to fix things myself and save on repair bills. I've rebuilt walls, drains, replaced toilet and sinks, etc. Parts are not expensive, labor is. Youtube is a life (financial savor).

 

Yep, I would tend to agree to your conclusion. These things only came out later on. Perhaps, that was why she only spent 2 - 3 hours at a time with me? So, she'd hope I'd fall for her and then that would trump my logical thinking with emotions instead? Not sure. She did say she moved in with her ex-fiancee before she broke off the wedding. She's never lived by herself; which both of her siblings do. Again, strange; especially when she's the oldest of all four.

 

She wanted to move out on her own and asked for my assistance in running the numbers. She looked like she was going to cry. She didn't know how she'd keep her current lifestyle and still afford a nice place. I picked some places within her budget, but she didn't like the area. It was a perfectly fin area, but she wanted a lux. place. Showed her where she could cut back and save money, she wouldn't hear of it. Then she told me she went to Bloomingdale's and bought a 700 jacket. Apparently, she only has one old puffy jacket (thought those were back in the 90's).

 

Again, nothing made any sense on what she was saying or doing. I truly wonder if she was all there or just coddled all of her life? Just a weird situation.

[jimbo]

Yup, they're true. And I agree about the bullet dodged.

 

What's different about OP's GF is that she's so overt and unsophisticated in the expression. Extreme. Women who are generous (can be in various ways) and cooperative don't come across that way, but when it's all about them... resources expended, accommodations made, etc., without a modicum of reciprocity, it starts looking an awful lot like the world's oldest profession.

 

TBH, I only thought living off of one's looks was for models or the movies. I never experienced this in my 20+ years of dating. Then again, it would be rare that I would approach a very attractive woman, as I thought keeping her happy would be expensive and I'd resent wasting all that money to keep her happy (I.E. 90 day fiancee). I guess, in this instance, I was right. Surreal.

[No_Go]

Ahhh YouTube-led home repairs is something that I've discovere after a costly lag. Initially I'd just get over an electrician/plumber/whatever, they'll take a critical look (single woman, foreign accent) and triple charge me :/ Never again! Parts are cheap indeed.

 

I still think the 'lady' that you attempted dating was brute-lying about her financial status and purchases. I'd still bet money she's dead broke, and probably has seen expensive hotels in some trashy soap opera and bases her 'opinion' on that... She just... reminds me so much to my conman mooching ex (who will also make such fancy claims so his gf/sugarmomma/ will step up her game)...

 

Been there before. You'd be surprised how much Youtube has helped me learn how to fix things myself and save on repair bills. I've rebuilt walls, drains, replaced toilet and sinks, etc. Parts are not expensive, labor is. Youtube is a life (financial savor).

 

Yep, I would tend to agree to your conclusion. These things only came out later on. Perhaps, that was why she only spent 2 - 3 hours at a time with me? So, she'd hope I'd fall for her and then that would trump my logical thinking with emotions instead? Not sure. She did say she moved in with her ex-fiancee before she broke off the wedding. She's never lived by herself; which both of her siblings do. Again, strange; especially when she's the oldest of all four.

 

She wanted to move out on her own and asked for my assistance in running the numbers. She looked like she was going to cry. She didn't know how she'd keep her current lifestyle and still afford a nice place. I picked some places within her budget, but she didn't like the area. It was a perfectly fin area, but she wanted a lux. place. Showed her where she could cut back and save money, she wouldn't hear of it. Then she told me she went to Bloomingdale's and bought a 700 jacket. Apparently, she only has one old puffy jacket (thought those were back in the 90's).

 

Again, nothing made any sense on what she was saying or doing. I truly wonder if she was all there or just coddled all of her life? Just a weird situation.

[Timshel]

Been there before. You'd be surprised how much Youtube has helped me learn how to fix things myself and save on repair bills. I've rebuilt walls, drains, replaced toilet and sinks, etc. Parts are not expensive, labor is. Youtube is a life (financial savor).

 

Yep, I would tend to agree to your conclusion. These things only came out later on. Perhaps, that was why she only spent 2 - 3 hours at a time with me? So, she'd hope I'd fall for her and then that would trump my logical thinking with emotions instead? Not sure. She did say she moved in with her ex-fiancee before she broke off the wedding. She's never lived by herself; which both of her siblings do. Again, strange; especially when she's the oldest of all four.

 

She wanted to move out on her own and asked for my assistance in running the numbers. She looked like she was going to cry. She didn't know how she'd keep her current lifestyle and still afford a nice place. I picked some places within her budget, but she didn't like the area. It was a perfectly fin area, but she wanted a lux. place. Showed her where she could cut back and save money, she wouldn't hear of it. Then she told me she went to Bloomingdale's and bought a 700 jacket. Apparently, she only has one old puffy jacket (thought those were back in the 90's).

 

Again, nothing made any sense on what she was saying or doing. I truly wonder if she was all there or just coddled all of her life? Just a weird situation.

 

Youtube, yes, many times. Our issue was buried almost 5 ft. down under cement.

 

Your gf sounds silly. Lot's of silly people in the world. I'm sorry it didn't work out but better now than later. I would say to any person dating to trust your own instinct. As you wrote before, dating is to determine long term compatibility.

 

If interactions with a date don't feel right for you, exit door left. Best to nip unproductive nonsense in the bud.

 

Best.

[lovephule]

Then again, it would be rare that I would approach a very attractive woman, as I thought keeping her happy would be expensive and I'd resent wasting all that money to keep her happy (I.E. 90 day fiancee). I guess, in this instance, I was right. Surreal.

Do you think that this preconception had any bearing on how your time with this woman played out?

[jimbo]

Do you think that this preconception had any bearing on how your time with this woman played out?

 

Nope. I go by what people's actions are, not by what they say and adjust accordingly.

[jimbo]

There are plenty of them out there like that, but most aren't as ham-handed in their approach. I remember overhearing a conversation between two such ladies. They were talking about how they use their cleavage to basically win at life. Job interview? Show cleavage. Pulled over for speeding? Show cleavage. No money but still want to hit the bar? Show cleavage. The list went on and on. They just laughed about how easy it is to get things out of men. They don't even have to pay speeding tickets! Sad, but true

 

Amazed this stuff still goes on. Also amazed on how some people cannot control their actions around the opposite. To do things for no other reason but to see some cleavage. Wow. Humanity has struck to a new low.

[jimbo]

Youtube, yes, many times. Our issue was buried almost 5 ft. down under cement.

 

Best.

 

Yea, that would prob. be above my knowledge too. My utility provides an optional rider for this. It's like 100 bucks a year through a company called HomeServe. May be something to look into?

[lovephule]

Nope. I go by what people's actions are, not by what they say and adjust accordingly.

How would you characterize the preponderance of money talk as compared to your previous involvements-- more, less or about the same?

[some_username1]

Right. How many instances can you cite of a man feeling like a woman is cheap because she insists on splitting the check?

 

The prize to be won / golden vagina syndrome is the mentality underlying this whole topic.

 

And what is turning up for a date and expecting the man to pay if not 'golden vagina' syndrome?

 

Honestly, I used to be the kind of guy that would brainlessly pay for meals if I had the money, done in an air of generosity. I certainly didn't do it because I wanted to live up to some woman's lofty ideals of what I *should* be doing simply because she is privileged be the woman.

 

But I am so turned off by this thread and the realisation that women mostly *expect* to be paid for that I shall only be paying for meals in future when I have the measure of the girl I am dating and that she is willing to contribute as much as I am.

 

'Golden Vagina Syndrome' indeed

[jimbo]

How would you characterize the preponderance of money talk as compared to your previous involvements-- more, less or about the same?

 

She would bring it up, not me. I tend to leave money and politics out of new relations.

[jimbo]

Honestly, I used to be the kind of guy that would brainlessly pay for meals if I had the money, done in an air of generosity. I certainly didn't do it because I wanted to live up to some woman's lofty ideals of what I *should* be doing simply because she is privileged be the woman.

 

TBH, I did this in my 20's a well. Assumed that was the standard and right thing to do. Time and time again, I'd follow up and be told thanks for the meal and take care. I've learned since my divorce this is not the thing to do. Many women (in the NYC area) take advantage of men's naivety or generosity; especially if they are not going to see you again. If there's nothing there, offer to split. If you are moving to multi-dates and/or relationship, switch off.

 

I recall not too long ago I offered to meet a woman for drinks and so we can get to know each other. I even ordered two tapas we could share. She actually said, no dinner? I never offered dinner, I offered drinks. She rolled her eyes, finished her drink and left. I swear, one can argue that some women in the NYC area use men for dinner dates during the week so they do not have to spend their money. Apparently, some men are just that thirsty.

 

No one likes to be used. Eyes wide open.

[heartbrokenlady]

I'd be v uncomfortable, letting a guy pay on the 1st date. I'd feel I owed him something, and no way am I feeling that I owe sex or indeed, anything to someone I just met.

[lovephule]

She would bring it up, not me. I tend to leave money and politics out of new relations.

Would you say she brought it up more, less, or about the same as other women you've been involved with?

 

Also, when you told her she probably wouldn't be with you if you drove a beater car, etc., where would you say you were in terms of thoughts/feelings continuing with her-- leaning towards continuing with adjustments necessary, on the fence, or leaning towards hanging it up?

[jimbo]

Would you say she brought it up more, less, or about the same as other women you've been involved with?

 

Also, when you told her she probably wouldn't be with you if you drove a beater car, etc., where would you say you were in terms of thoughts/feelings continuing with her-- leaning towards continuing with adjustments necessary, on the fence, or leaning towards hanging it up?

 

Money was often on her mind on how to pay for things and life. Wanting to quit her job, too stressful, etc. Seemed she was looking for someone to take care of her financially. I say this because not too long ago, she even said not sure if I want to rent a place, what if I move in with someone during that year? What if I move in with you? Then I have to cancel the lease, lose my security, etc. Nothing made any sense.

 

The excuses for no intimacy made little sense, when in Sept. she literally ripped the buttons out of my shirt. Subsequently after, she was too tired, too dirty, too sweaty, not feeling well, have to spend time at home, have to do this, have to do that, etc. Since she'd only spend time with me for a meal and little else, then jet, I felt something was off. I kinda new I needed to plan my exit. The tantrum that she did a couple of weeks ago was the last straw.

 

Again, I go by what a persons actions are, not by what they say. Words are meaningless.

[lovephule]

Money was often on her mind on how to pay for things and life. Wanting to quit her job, too stressful, etc. Seemed she was looking for someone to take care of her financially. I say this because not too long ago, she even said not sure if I want to rent a place, what if I move in with someone during that year? What if I move in with you? Then I have to cancel the lease, lose my security, etc. Nothing made any sense.

 

The excuses for no intimacy made little sense, when in Sept. she literally ripped the buttons out of my shirt. Subsequently after, she was too tired, too dirty, too sweaty, not feeling well, have to spend time at home, have to do this, have to do that, etc. Since she'd only spend time with me for a meal and little else, then jet, I felt something was off. I kinda new I needed to plan my exit. The tantrum that she did a couple of weeks ago was the last straw.

 

Again, I go by what a persons actions are, not by what they say. Words are meaningless.

Thanks for filling in some of the blanks. Even with all the additional information you've provided over the course of the thread I still don't have real sense of the flow of this involvement. It feels cold, but I'm not sure if that's just your dry reporting style or if that's how it felt to you too.

 

Her habits are consistent with being in a committed relationship with someone else. Not someone just multi-dating and noncommittal, but someone with somewhere to be and accountability to someone else. I'm not saying that this is what she was doing.

[jimbo]

Thanks for filling in some of the blanks. Even with all the additional information you've provided over the course of the thread I still don't have real sense of the flow of this involvement. It feels cold, but I'm not sure if that's just your dry reporting style or if that's how it felt to you too.

 

Her habits are consistent with being in a committed relationship with someone else. Not someone just multi-dating and noncommittal, but someone with somewhere to be and accountability to someone else. I'm not saying that this is what she was doing.

 

TBH, I thought there was someone else too. She swore up and down there was no one else, but she was still on Match. She, of course, claimed she wasn't and she closed her account. When I closed my account, I wasn't being shown as active. I still think she was juggling more than just me, but I have not proof. The lack on intimacy and BS excuses week after week made me feel this way. Also, I'd offer multiple times to pick her up, but she said it's weird for the guy I am seeing to pick me up at my parents house.

 

Again, her actions and her words were completely different. Thus, I started to question things more and more. Very strange behavior. She would often talk to me about when I find I guy to move in with and so and so.. I thought that was very odd. It was like a slap across the face. Like I was a placeholder.

 

Interestingly enough, I logged back into my match account, and now her profile is hidden again. I de-favorited her, so I will not have any further updates, but I thought that was weird. Just makes me think there was someone (or more) in the wings she was also courting.

 

Just explaining things as they happened. It may be a bit dry as I am trying not to put my own judgement on the actions when I explain them here.

 

Nothing makes any sense.

[salparadise]

I'd be v uncomfortable, letting a guy pay on the 1st date. I'd feel I owed him something, and no way am I feeling that I owe sex or indeed, anything to someone I just met.

 

While I think it's admirable that you split on a first date, I wish you had said because it's fair and equitable, the right thing to do... as opposed to avoiding some kind of negative consequences. Don't you ever think, we're both honorable people here for the same reason so why not share the cost?

Edited December 20, 2017 by salparadise

[heartbrokenlady]

That too. Equals in a relationship should share the costs.

 

But dating isn't as simple as that. I don't want to be beholden. And my mind is clear that I'm not if I pay my own way.

[salparadise]

Money was often on her mind on how to pay for things and life. Wanting to quit her job, too stressful, etc. Seemed she was looking for someone to take care of her financially.

 

The excuses for no intimacy made little sense, when in Sept. she literally ripped the buttons out of my shirt. Subsequently after, she was too tired, too dirty, too sweaty, not feeling well, have to spend time at home, have to do this, have to do that, etc.

 

Since she'd only spend time with me for a meal and little else, then jet, I felt something was off.

 

She swore up and down there was no one else, but she was still on Match.

 

She would often talk to me about when I find I guy to move in with and so and so.. I thought that was very odd. It was like a slap across the face. Like I was a placeholder.

 

 

 

The more info you provide the more her motivations are apparent... I think she was simply shopping for a wealthy caretaker and intended to monkey branch from her parents house to someone else's... where everything would be taken care of and she wouldn't have to work or worry about anything, ever again.

 

Attractiveness and the golden vagina are the currency. The reason you never got laid after dating several months is that she also subscribes to the old saying, "why would a man want to buy the cow if he's getting the milk for free."

 

As someone else said, I have doubts that she's gainfully employed as she led you to believe. The reason is that it takes an adult to hold down a six-figure job, and I don't think this woman ever grew up. Her mental/emotional development seems to have stalled around age fourteen. She has no desire to function as an adult. There's an old quip here in the south, used when someone's expectation are out of whack... "I ain't taking you to raise."

 

I'm surprised that you stuck with it as long as you did without having any physical relationship, just meeting up for meals, her eating, you paying, then she jets. Look on the positive side though; you received a pretty good education for less than the cost of one semester's tuition.

[Maggie4]

Eh! Dating is just too expensive. I'm frugal. I don't want to spend money and I don't want the man spending a lot of money either. Groceries are expensive too if you try to cook at home. It's best to go on dates that don't involve eating and alcoholic beverages. I'd offer to pay for the man's bottle of water, keep him hydrated...