The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[Trojan]

I honestly think that some women expect men to pay for the date because it's a good indicator of his potential to be an excellent provider. I honestly don't see anything wrong with a woman and man splitting the check.

[thr1986]

Please help:

 

I’ve been seeing someone for about 2.5 months. We have been out to dinner 8 times and she has never offered to pay for anything. I’ve never asked, I just continue to pay.

 

I feel a little bit annoyed with it because honestly, we live in NYC and it’s hard enough getting by.

 

She did recently pay for tickets to an Evans for us. But, it’s like she expects me to pay for everything we do on a daily basis. If we stop for coffee, I pay. If we get a late night snack, I pay. If we do anything, I pay. Other than the tickets she recently bought and planned for us.

 

I’m annoyed, but this is the only thing about her that annoys me. What should I do?

[Art_Critic]

I’m annoyed, but this is the only thing about her that annoys me. What should I do?

 

Learn how to court her.. fer gawd sakes...

You said she has paid for tickets recently...

If you expect to further the relationship to a point where she will start to pay for things then you need to let more than a handle full of dates go buy..

 

and quit whining... geez.... 8 times out to dinner...

 

I get that you feel it should be more even.. but women don't exactly think you not courting them is hot...

 

Showing a woman the respect of taking care of her is what she is looking for.. it doesn't last forever but 8 dates in isn't enough.

 

and if it really does bother you that bad then you need to find a woman that is willing to let some of the tradition that society bestows on us men go by the waistside..

There are women out there that don't expect a man to pay for dates.

 

I personally have never once let a woman I was dating even once pay for a date... but that is me.. not you..

[snowboy91]

Definitely a cultural thing. You're Australian, right? AFAIK splitting the bill is normal there, and I don't see anything inherently wrong with that. As you said, it's just a compatibility issue.

 

H and I have lived in two polar opposite cultures in that regard, so it's very interesting to see the differences. He still can't get over the fact that waiters sometimes ask him if he's paying for both of us when he goes up to pay the bill, even if we walk in holding hands...

 

On the flip side, back in our homeland, I once went for lunch with a platonic male friend, and the waiter just handed him the whole bill without asking. Awkward. I paid him back after we left.

 

That's a really good point - there are definitely differences in dating culture between what I see IRL here and what's posted here on LS. Paying for dates is definitely a major one, which I think is part of a more major cultural difference between the US and Australia.

 

Your story reminds me of a time I was travelling in another country in a large group where there was only one other girl of European descent (ie. light skinned - the rest were Middle Eastern). The waiters at every restaurant thought we were together and always presented me the bill for the two of us. We'd only just met that on that trip and we both had partners at home. It was awkward at first but we made a good running joke out of it.

[Els]

Your story reminds me of a time I was travelling in another country in a large group where there was only one other girl of European descent (ie. light skinned - the rest were Middle Eastern). The waiters at every restaurant thought we were together and always presented me the bill for the two of us. We'd only just met that on that trip and we both had partners at home. It was awkward at first but we made a good running joke out of it.

 

 

Haha, what country was that? It's pretty standard practice for waiters in some Asian countries to do that...

[RideTheLightening]

I’m annoyed, but this is the only thing about her that annoys me. What should I do?

 

You need to talk to her about it. At this point you should know what her financial abilities are... I mean if she is super poor then I don’t think you should expect much. If she makes the same as you... then this isn’t acceptable and you should lay that out. Holding onto this isn’t productive.

 

It’s not that hard to ask her why. If she is traditional and wants the guy to pay... then ask her to cook you some food. I’ve dated some ladies like this and honestly I vastly prefer to eat home cooked food. Often I will even bring the ingredients. Cheaper than eating out in NYC.

 

Learn how to court her.. fer gawd sakes...

You said she has paid for tickets recently...

If you expect to further the relationship to a point where she will start to pay for things then you need to let more than a handle full of dates go buy..

and quit whining... geez.... 8 times out to dinner...

I get that you feel it should be more even.. but women don't exactly think you not courting them is hot...

Showing a woman the respect of taking care of her is what she is looking for.. it doesn't last forever but 8 dates in isn't enough.

and if it really does bother you that bad then you need to find a woman that is willing to let some of the tradition that society bestows on us men go by the waistside..

There are women out there that don't expect a man to pay for dates.

I personally have never once let a woman I was dating even once pay for a date... but that is me.. not you..

 

No offense but you sound 100 years old. Court her? Yeah, maybe back in 1890!

 

Women under 30 generally make more money than men under 30. It’s a new day my friend and we must adapt to the times.

 

The idea that women should be free of all gender expectations, except when it benefits them is garbage. If I’m paying... then I expect a low notch count highly feminine traditional girl... otherwise it’s a split bill and sex on date 1.

[MivoUK]

23 year old guy here.

 

I always take the bill on dates.

 

It just feels wrong to let the woman pay.

 

Not old fashioned it just fits my principles!

[Art_Critic]

No offense but you sound 100 years old. Court her? Yeah, maybe back in 1890!

 

Women under 30 generally make more money than men under 30. It’s a new day my friend and we must adapt to the times.

 

The idea that women should be free of all gender expectations, except when it benefits them is garbage. If I’m paying... then I expect a low notch count highly feminine traditional girl... otherwise it’s a split bill and sex on date 1.

 

Nah.. but married and never had a problem dating to the point I didn't know I had to date/court a woman and show her I can take care of her in order to make it to the second date, show a woman you are a cheap ass and there won't be a second date

 

If your paying, no offense but that sounds cheap as it gets, transparent too.. certainly not putting your best foot forward to make the girl feel special... "sorry" .. you ate most of the appetizer so you need to pay more..

 

There isn't anything wrong with paying for the dates till the relationship has grown to the point where both people pay...

BTW, paying for dates while dating a woman has nothing to do with how much money she makes or doesn't make and if you can't figure that out then good luck.....

Edited December 13, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Ruby Slippers]

I just dumped a man who's a cheapo. I offered to pay for some things on the second date. He accepted and pushed me to pay for even more stuff for us and him while out in shops, etc. This already raised giant flags, and when I learned more about how careless and not smart he is with money, my attraction took a swift nosedive.

 

A life partner is also a financial partner, and he was a bad bet in that department. I feel extremely relieved to be rid of him.

 

No man other than him ever asked me to pay for a thing. In the future, I'll split at the first indicator the guy's a loser

[Shining One]

A life partner is also a financial partner, and he was a bad bet in that department.

I agree with the bolded and have a question. How do women of a traditional mindset demonstrate they are a good financial partner? In similar fashion to you, I've dumped / stopped dating several women for being "cheapos".

[Ruby Slippers]

I discuss finances very early on. Except for a small car loan, I have zero debt, more than enough money saved for the down payment on my first home, just got approved for more than enough financing to buy or build my first home, stable employment my entire life, currently interviewing for jobs that pay double what I make now. I support myself 100% and have been scrimping, saving, and sacrificing for years to get to this point with my savings. If he's not at that level or better, I'm not interested. I'm 1,000 times happier alone than dragging along dead weight.

[Shining One]

I'm 1,000 times happier alone than dragging along dead weight.

Interesting word choice. This describes exactly how I felt when dating traditional women who expected me to cover their dating expenses. They felt more like a burden than an asset, despite the sex.

[some_username1]

Interesting word choice. This describes exactly how I felt when dating traditional women who expected me to cover their dating expenses. They felt more like a burden than an asset, despite the sex.

 

Exactly, it suggests a certain lack of self-awareness on the part of the female for her to judge a man for being a 'cheapo' and 'dead weight' when she expects to go on say, 6 new first dates a month and for the total cost to her to be absolutely nothing.

 

Thankfully this is very rare these days and I have dated women who have been at pains to tell me how much they loathe the idea of being paid for because they earn their own money and pay their own way in life. So if some women want to stick to out dated ideas then that is fine, they can weed me out and I can weed them out, thankfully there are more than enough women out there who want to be a true equal rather than equal when it suits.

[Ruby Slippers]

Interesting word choice. This describes exactly how I felt when dating traditional women who expected me to cover their dating expenses. They felt more like a burden than an asset, despite the sex.

Traditional men should stick with traditional women, and feminist/progressive with like as well.

 

But I think the fact is that deep down, 95% of women prefer to be courted in the traditional way. In most cases they only accept less if they think that's the best they can do.

 

100% of the men I've had relationships with fully embraced the provider role, expressed they'd feel like a loser doing anything less. Makes perfect sense to me.

[brigit87]

Exactly, it suggests a certain lack of self-awareness on the part of the female for her to judge a man for being a 'cheapo' and 'dead weight' when she expects to go on say, 6 new first dates a month and for the total cost to her to be absolutely nothing.

 

Thankfully this is very rare these days and I have dated women who have been at pains to tell me how much they loathe the idea of being paid for because they earn their own money and pay their own way in life. So if some women want to stick to out dated ideas then that is fine, they can weed me out and I can weed them out, thankfully there are more than enough women out there who want to be a true equal rather than equal when it suits.

 

I think women should start paying for dates after men are able to get pregnant.

[some_username1]

I think women should start paying for dates after men are able to get pregnant.

 

That is way too profound for me

[Els]

I think women should start paying for dates after men are able to get pregnant.

 

 

 

 

I know it sounds really random, but this is actually a pretty core reason in the different financial expectations between genders, IMO. Until and unless we successfully develop an artificial womb, pregnancy/labour/postpartum effects are always going to fall 100% on the woman. Obviously, this has a high chance of impacting their progress in the workplace (just look at the "new co-worker lied about not being pregnant" thread...), and thus there is a biological imperative to seek a "provider" man who is able and willing to take care of the family if she has pregnancy complications and can't work for a year (not as uncommon as you'd think), or if she has complications with labour and can't return to work as soon as she'd like, etc. This is a HUGE worry for the women I know with husbands who can't/won't provide, if they desire children.

 

 

 

Once technology finally overcomes this, IMO only then will there be genuine equality.

[Ruby Slippers]

That's really the crux of it. Sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive.

 

Even past childbearing years, studies show that women do much better single and living alone than men. I had lunch with an older woman from my mom's church recently, a widowed mother. She said if a man can't improve her life with his presence and material contributions to the relationship, she has no interest. It makes perfect sense to me.

 

Even in the jungle, females only want the males who bring home the bacon/dinner/material sustenance. Anything less and that male won't ever be able to compete with the stronger provider males, likely won't ever earn the opportunity to mate at all.

[chillii]

And if she's anything less than the better females on offer then she won't be able to compete either.

There's always, 2 sides to this male female coin no matter which way they wanna twist it.

 

There are millions of single women out there that want a relationship but can't find one. l know quite a few personally too. And it was also the case with 99% of women l met after my divorce.

l also know of some absolutely gorgeous younger women, late 20s , dying to marry and start a family, that can't find someone. And believe me, the last thing they want is AI or some sperm bank, they want a real family and a real man that loves them

And back in my 20s , one of the biggest hassles of being involved was the pressure to marry and have kids, l could've easily have married 10 different girls at different times.

l'm not kidding , you couldn't go out with anyone longer than a few mths or the pressure would start and just get too much.

 

 

PS , and in that case l hate to think what it would've been like if l was some successful type, which l wasn't even close to or the least bit interested in being.

Edited January 14, 2019 by chillii

[newyorker11356]

Traditional men should stick with traditional women, and feminist/progressive with like as well.

 

But I think the fact is that deep down, 95% of women prefer to be courted in the traditional way. In most cases they only accept less if they think that's the best they can do.

 

100% of the men I've had relationships with fully embraced the provider role, expressed they'd feel like a loser doing anything less. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

Nah, maybe back then, but not so much now.

 

I find most women nowadays are more than okay, and even prefer splitting dating costs, and not just have it all be on the men. My girlfriend and I are like that, and she actually prefers it that way. She feels (would feel) very uncomfortable if I (had) always paid for the dates.

[edgygirl]

Guy I've been dating refused my offer to help pay and added he's "old fashioned". Music to my ears. I have my old fashioned side too.

 

Can't stand cheapos. It just feels so un-feminine. I am not sure if it's biologically ingrained, but in my age range (40s) it feels weird when a man wants you to pay for dates or split. And it's not really about the money, it's about feeling courted and cared for.

 

Years ago I was dating a lawyer who made above 300k and he still wanted me to offer to pay. Seriously? $50-100 is going to make that much of a difference?

 

How about the 50 yo doctor who knew I was unemployed for a while during the recession and still accepted my offer to help? When he asked me on a second date, I answered I'd never date a man who is clearly wealthy yet wants an unemployed woman to help on a date

[jay1983]

Any stories of you dating and helping out any men who were down on their luck?

 

Get the feeling you avoid them like cancer.

Edited January 17, 2019 by jay1983

[newyorker11356]

Guy I've been dating refused my offer to help pay and added he's "old fashioned". Music to my ears. I have my old fashioned side too.

 

Can't stand cheapos. It just feels so un-feminine. I am not sure if it's biologically ingrained, but in my age range (40s) it feels weird when a man wants you to pay for dates or split. And it's not really about the money, it's about feeling courted and cared for.

 

Years ago I was dating a lawyer who made above 300k and he still wanted me to offer to pay. Seriously? $50-100 is going to make that much of a difference?

 

How about the 50 yo doctor who knew I was unemployed for a while during the recession and still accepted my offer to help? When he asked me on a second date, I answered I'd never date a man who is clearly wealthy yet wants an unemployed woman to help on a date

 

Except you can be courted and cared for without having a guy ALWAYS pay for everything on dates, even more so if the woman can afford it if they work and what not (different story if that isn't the case).

 

My current girlfriend prefers splitting on dates, even when exclusive. Says it makes her more comfortable that way and doesn't feel like she owes anyone anything.

 

I'm in my 20's and the women I've gone on dates with and dated are also in their 20's pretty much think this way, so it must be a generational thing.

[Interstellar]

Guy I've been dating refused my offer to help pay and added he's "old fashioned". Music to my ears. I have my old fashioned side too.

 

Can't stand cheapos. It just feels so un-feminine. I am not sure if it's biologically ingrained, but in my age range (40s) it feels weird when a man wants you to pay for dates or split. And it's not really about the money, it's about feeling courted and cared for.

 

Years ago I was dating a lawyer who made above 300k and he still wanted me to offer to pay. Seriously? $50-100 is going to make that much of a difference?

 

How about the 50 yo doctor who knew I was unemployed for a while during the recession and still accepted my offer to help? When he asked me on a second date, I answered I'd never date a man who is clearly wealthy yet wants an unemployed woman to help on a date

 

It feels unchivalrous. Now if down the road and the relationship has been established and the woman asked the guy out or if she wants to spring for an ice cream or something it shows she’s a giver then it’s okay but letting the woman you’re courting pay for the dates? Forget about money and feminism and all that bs nonsense. It doesn’t look right and it’s not manly. That’s similar to not pulling the chair for her, holding the door open for her, checking out other women during the date, etc...

Edited January 18, 2019 by Interstellar

[edgygirl]

I think we are in agreement, newyorker11356. When we were 20s and broke college students living off our parents, we always split (for me that was 20 years ago).

 

But when you're in your 40s & 50s and COURTING a woman (before exclusivity, in let's say first 5-6 dates) it feels very un-feminine to me to have a man expecting me to pay for those dates. After exclusivity, sure, we can each pay for dates... and plan dates. But before exclusivity I want to be courted, be invited by someone who plans and pays for the dates and feel my feminine side. If a guy is a cheapo counting pennies in the first dates in that age range, it's not very attractive, is it?