The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[DaddyDom]

Maybe it is because I am old school. But I enjoy planning dates, courting a woman, the look of appreciation she gives when I treat her. The effort and appreciation she puts into looking hot for Daddy.

 

The only thing I will say is that it is nice when a woman will plan and pay every once and awhile just to show it isn't one sided.

[Blind-Sided]

I Put "Other" in the post.

 

 

I was raised in a family that my dad just took care of things. Even now, if I'm with him... he just pays. In turn... I have now become "My Dad", and I just take the bill at the end. (Even with friends a lot of the time)

 

 

With that said... I have no problem with a woman who actually wants to pay for a date. (not that I'm dating at the moment) But even with my STBxW, when we were dating, I would pay. BUT... if she said she wanted to take me out... then I have no problems at all with it.

 

 

As a final note... if I feel like I'm being used just for a night out, or it's not appreciated... then it will probably end sooner rather than later.

[Youngestdaughter]

I'm an old fashioned Southern girl. I never asked a guy out. If he couldn't pick up on my flirting-which was rather skilled if I say so myself, I figured he was either not interested or not bright. I don't like going Dutch or taking turns. Not romantic. Also, Southern men have fragile egos and you might never see them again if they cant pay for a proper date. So, you have to strategize. My policy was for every date the man paid for, I would make him dinner and he would be eating my food, drinking my liquor and some making out. If you can't or don't like to cook, suggest a low cost or free option like a state park and surprise him with a picnic. Or you could invite him to something that is paid for when you arrive: a concert, a football game. "I have these tickets. Do you like football?" Down here, that's like asking, "Do you like money and candy?" I might sound like a relic to you. But it's how I raised my stepdaughter and it worked for her. Of course, she's 20 now and been dating the same young man for two years. Being in college, they're both broke. So I imagine their dates now consist of a bottle of Boone's farm, a blanket and the woods

Or, you could just follow Miss Manners. Whoever asks pays.

[Youngestdaughter]

I know I have already weighed in on this matter. But I must speak again. Love all you old fashioned gentleman who can't not pay-pardon the double negative-but any woman not raised by wolves will find a way to reciprocate. And I don't mean with sex. That sounds a little like prostitution. Actually, prostitution is more honest, efficient, and she can do what she wants with the money. My ex was very macho and old fashioned and had to pay for everything. So, when I decided it was time to take the lid off the cookie jar so to speak, I rented a hotel room, bought a cooler and filled it with his favorite beer, even bought pink and blue tooth brushes. After dinner, we got in the car and while we were kissing in the car, I took out the key card and put it in his hand. He looked like a kid on Christmas morning. And he thanked me for weeks. Get creative! Cook him dinner in a sexy dress. (Any of you boys hate that?) Buy tickets to his favorite team sport or a concert. Suggest a free event like an outdoor concert or boat show and pack a picnic. If that's too gender defined, you can carry the basket. If you want to go to dinner and he won't let you pay, buy a gift certificate from the restaurant. Ask him if he's eaten there and tell him you have a gift certificate. Just don't tell him how you got it. Get creative. Planning an activity you know he loves or remembering his favorite whatever not only lets him off the hook, it lets him know your paying attention. Come on, Ladies! Get creative. Even the most highly evolved man doesn't want to tell you it's your turn. Offer. And find a way to treat the old fashioned gentleman. I invited my husband to my friend's cabin on the river. Best kiss of my life. The next time it was my turn, I cooked him dinner and we played trivial pursuit. Do you have cool couple friends? Take him there for a few beers. You'll want to know what they think of him anyway. The possibilities are endless. And Gentleman, any woman not even making an effort while dating will definitely not pull her weight in the long haul. I'd lose her.

[Els]

I know I have already weighed in on this matter. But I must speak again. Love all you old fashioned gentleman who can't not pay-pardon the double negative-but any woman not raised by wolves will find a way to reciprocate. And I don't mean with sex. That sounds a little like prostitution. Actually, prostitution is more honest, efficient, and she can do what she wants with the money. My ex was very macho and old fashioned and had to pay for everything. So, when I decided it was time to take the lid off the cookie jar so to speak, I rented a hotel room, bought a cooler and filled it with his favorite beer, even bought pink and blue tooth brushes. After dinner, we got in the car and while we were kissing in the car, I took out the key card and put it in his hand. He looked like a kid on Christmas morning. And he thanked me for weeks. Get creative! Cook him dinner in a sexy dress. (Any of you boys hate that?) Buy tickets to his favorite team sport or a concert. Suggest a free event like an outdoor concert or boat show and pack a picnic. If that's too gender defined, you can carry the basket. If you want to go to dinner and he won't let you pay, buy a gift certificate from the restaurant. Ask him if he's eaten there and tell him you have a gift certificate. Just don't tell him how you got it. Get creative. Planning an activity you know he loves or remembering his favorite whatever not only lets him off the hook, it lets him know your paying attention. Come on, Ladies! Get creative. Even the most highly evolved man doesn't want to tell you it's your turn. Offer. And find a way to treat the old fashioned gentleman. I invited my husband to my friend's cabin on the river. Best kiss of my life. The next time it was my turn, I cooked him dinner and we played trivial pursuit. Do you have cool couple friends? Take him there for a few beers. You'll want to know what they think of him anyway. The possibilities are endless. And Gentleman, any woman not even making an effort while dating will definitely not pull her weight in the long haul. I'd lose her.

 

 

I think the concern from most of the regular posters on this thread is about the early dates. They've had bad experiences with taking a woman out for a couple of dates and then never seeing her again.

 

 

I would strongly NOT recommend doing what you describe after only 2 dates, lol! But indeed reciprocation can happen, even simple stuff like getting the drinks after dinner or the tip/parking ticket.

[salparadise]

I know I have already weighed in on this matter. But I must speak again. Love all you old fashioned gentleman who can't not pay-pardon the double negative-but any woman not raised by wolves will find a way to reciprocate.

 

Gentleman, any woman not even making an effort while dating will definitely not pull her weight in the long haul. I'd lose her.

 

I think the concern from most of the regular posters on this thread is about the early dates. They've had bad experiences with taking a woman out for a couple of dates and then never seeing her again.

 

I would strongly NOT recommend doing what you describe after only 2 dates, lol! But indeed reciprocation can happen, even simple stuff like getting the drinks after dinner or the tip/parking ticket.

 

 

I'm sure posters on both sides have various rationales that intuitively make sense to them as to why they prefer what they prefer. I think if this was only about the actual cost it wouldn't be nearly as sensitive and controversial an issue as it is (as evidenced by 1200+ posts).

 

What this is really about is a person's self-concept with respect to gender, and they expectations bring with respect to gender roles in a partnership. And it's a true dichotomy because there really is not any middle ground. Oh, some try to split the difference by advocating that women do some token reciprocation, but that's only glossing a bit of PCness on the old patriarchal system.

 

I think it's interesting how incredibly resistant people are to change, and for some reason this particular issue is super-resistant and seems to fly beneath people's rational radar ninety-nine percent of the time; they don't actually know why they feel the way they do, but they'll give you a story even if it's full of holes.

 

The feeling that drives some men to insist on paying for women is to display masculinity (peacocking), to prove they're wealthy enough to afford a $40 restaurant check, and demonstrate that they subscribe to the care-taking-ownership relational model (because what woman doesn't like that?). In other words, not much different from the reason some men need to drive a big-ass diesel pickup truck when they have absolutely no practical reason to drive anything larger or more expensive than a Toyota Corolla. *(mods, please do not move this to the consolidated penis size thread.) And for women, it's the inverse. They prefer feeling taken care of to being strong, independent, and self-actualizing. And they prefer a peacocking male to being respected as fully equal... plus those big-ass diesels mak'em wet.

 

Honestly, I intended to be perfectly straight and serious in this one, but I just can't seem to take this stuff seriously. I think our society is going to be stuck with the slow reach for one more generation at least.

Edited April 27, 2019 by salparadise

[Ruby Slippers]

I think it's simple. Females of all species select for males who best provide material resources, period.

[salparadise]

I think it's simple. Females of all species select for males who best provide material resources, period.

 

Well, it's not quite that simple. There are two essential methods of selection used by various species, and most use one to the near exclusion of the other. Humans, however, employ elements of both. There is variability between individuals and within individuals at different times.

 

For example, human females are known to lean toward the pair bonding method (parental investment) when choosing males for marriage, but will switch to the tournament method (physical characteristics) for extramarital copulations during ovulation (for superior genetics). If you look at the characteristics of (and produced by) the two methods, you will find items within both that are applicable to our species.

 

The result of the tournament method is sexual dimorphism between genders. Humans are certainly dimorphic, but not nearly as dramatically so as many other species. If we were dedicated pair-bonders there would be little or no dimorphism between the sexes (the genders would be more physically similar).

 

TOURNAMENT SPECIES: males have exaggerated physical characteristics that differ from females; males are larger than females; males are highly aggressive and compete for dominance; females are attracted to signs of health and strength, and choose the largest male in group for protection; males have higher testosterone levels; males have decreased life span vs females; males have numerous sexual partners; females are the only involved parent; male typically abandons females and offspring; rarely produce twins; distribution of offspring focused on fewer males of the group; highest reproductive rate per sexually active male; gene selection is via competition for dominance, winner mates with all females of group.

 

PAIR BONDING SPECIES: male and female more equivalent in size; females attracted to mates who are more like themselves than opposite; females look for males better suited for equal roles, equal parenting; females delay mating and expect to be courted to assess dedication, consistency, and provisioning; female may act helpless to see how a potential mate reacts, if he will hunt and engage in care-taking as a test of paternal instincts; less testosterone in males; females are often a bit larger in size; twins much more common; equal reproductive distribution among males; females sometimes lose interest and abandon mate and offspring for another partner.

[gaius]

That might be the most romantic thing I've ever heard written about women sal.

 

As far as paying goes, men paying is just how men and women fit together. When you're having sex you can stick your penis in her ear, talk about how penis in the ear is the evolved way of doing it, try to indoctrinate women to think that's the right way, write long posts quoting the academic literature on penis in ear, but at the end of the day it just will never be as stimulating as penis in vagina.

 

Good luck with the trailblazing though!

[JuneL]

I don’t understand why some people are so upset that there are others who view this paying for dates thing differently. If you don’t like women who prefer you to pay more or even most of the time, just stay away from them. Likewise if you dislike men who want to split the dating 50-50 expenses even during the first few dates, then don’t go out with them. As simple as that

[OatsAndHall]

 

And grossly unfair to me is people expecting to do things they could not afford on their own.

 

 

 

This has been my biggest issue when it comes to the topic at hand.

 

 

 

Over the last few years of dating, I have run into multiple situations where the woman I was seeing wanted to go to a restaurant or a concert/play/symphony that they couldn't afford but I could. I don't mind paying for those things sparingly (certainly not within the first few dates) but it's not something that I'm willing to do on a regular basis if they can't afford it.

[JuneL]

This has been my biggest issue when it comes to the topic at hand.

 

 

 

Over the last few years of dating, I have run into multiple situations where the woman I was seeing wanted to go to a restaurant or a concert/play/symphony that they couldn't afford but I could. I don't mind paying for those things sparingly (certainly not within the first few dates) but it's not something that I'm willing to do on a regular basis if they can't afford it.

 

But why would you want to be with such a high maintenance woman anyway?

[OatsAndHall]

But why would you want to be with such a high maintenance woman anyway?

 

 

There are times that I don't figure out that they're high maintenance until this comes up. There might be some signs but there's no red-flags until we have this "discussion".

 

 

 

And, there are times when they aren't high maintenance; they're just operating off of the social norms within this area of the country. My last girlfriend wasn't high maintenance by any stretch of the imagination but we needed to have a talk about a particular expensive Hibachi grill that we both enjoy but she couldn't afford.

[JuneL]

There are times that I don't figure out that they're high maintenance until this comes up. There might be some signs but there's no red-flags until we have this "discussion".

 

 

 

And, there are times when they aren't high maintenance; they're just operating off of the social norms within this area of the country. My last girlfriend wasn't high maintenance by any stretch of the imagination but we needed to have a talk about a particular expensive Hibachi grill that we both enjoy but she couldn't afford.

 

How did she justify picking something she couldn’t afford and just expecting you to pay?

[some_username1]

I don’t understand why some people are so upset that there are others who view this paying for dates thing differently. If you don’t like women who prefer you to pay more or even most of the time, just stay away from them. Likewise if you dislike men who want to split the dating 50-50 expenses even during the first few dates, then don’t go out with them. As simple as that

 

Surprisingly women don't put on their dating profiles "I want a man to spend all his money on ME"

 

In fact most are quite shy about it....until the bill arrives, of course

[Shining One]

How did she justify picking something she couldn’t afford and just expecting you to pay?

For many, the only justification they need is: I'm a woman and it's your job to pay.

[salparadise]

For many, the only justification they need is: I'm a woman and it's your job to pay.

 

Yup, it's a attitude of entitlement that seems inherent... I am XX and you are XY, so dating should be free for me, and it's going to cost you whatever I say it costs, or as much as you can afford. And if I perceive that you are withholding or otherwise not meeting expectations in terms of valuable consideration, well, I can't easily find a more generous XY who will demonstrate appreciation freely. Bless their little hearts.

[JuneL]

Yup, it's a attitude of entitlement that seems inherent... I am XX and you are XY, so dating should be free for me, and it's going to cost you whatever I say it costs, or as much as you can afford. And if I perceive that you are withholding or otherwise not meeting expectations in terms of valuable consideration, well, I can't easily find a more generous XY who will demonstrate appreciation freely. Bless their little hearts.

 

But does this attitude from certain women actually hurt your dating life? It’s like you want to date a physically fit woman and you’re upset that many women are overweight or obese.

[Shining One]

But does this attitude from certain women actually hurt your dating life? It’s like you want to date a physically fit woman and you’re upset that many women are overweight or obese.

A woman's fitness status is readily visible upon first meeting and often before. Her sense of entitlement or lack thereof is not. If this attitude were readily apparent upon first meeting or on OLD profiles, this thread would be far smaller.

[Timshel]

Yup, it's a attitude of entitlement that seems inherent... I am XX and you are XY, so dating should be free for me, and it's going to cost you whatever I say it costs, or as much as you can afford. And if I perceive that you are withholding or otherwise not meeting expectations in terms of valuable consideration, well, I can't easily find a more generous XY who will demonstrate appreciation freely. Bless their little hearts.

 

Is this really true though? Sure in the first several dates there may be some ambiguity stemming from personal preferences...however, in a healthy ltr financial expectations flow. A couple establishes a pattern of financial investment that is equally comfortable for both people.

Otherwise they are not properly partnered.

Would you agree?

 

 

I haven't personally known people in relationships with ongoing angst about who pays for what; or known women who have these sort of expectations in a ltr or marriage. These things are sorted early on.

[OatsAndHall]

How did she justify picking something she couldn’t afford and just expecting you to pay?

 

 

We had gone there twice, once on our third date and once after I got a new job as a celebration. I paid both times as a)I offered to take her there and b)she couldn't afford it on her own. So, she just assumed a precedence had been set. But, I explained to her that, unless she was paying, I preferred to limit our visits to that restaurant.

 

 

 

And, I live in a very conservative neck of the woods where some dating practices from decades ago haven't died. I have dated a few women who have I doubt have ever gone Dutch or paid for a date themselves. It's made the dating life interesting up here.

 

 

 

There's another expensive restaurant in the area that I can't stand as the food isn't very good. But, most of the women I have dated in this area have asked to be taken there as it's the a part of some weird dating ritual that they're used to. Some have even asked on the first date and I shoot it down as a) I know they're don't want to go Dutch and b)I'm not spending $60+ dollars on a first date.

 

 

 

In the summer, a local theater hosts traveling plays and they put on some quality productions. The shows are decent but tickets don't come cheap and I've also found this to basically be an expected outing with some women and they're certainly not offering to pay. I've been told by men in the area that a standard first or second date in the summers around here is dinner at the over-priced restaurant and then hitting up whatever play is in at the theater.

 

 

 

Nope.

[some_username1]

We had gone there twice, once on our third date and once after I got a new job as a celebration. I paid both times as a)I offered to take her there and b)she couldn't afford it on her own. So, she just assumed a precedence had been set. But, I explained to her that, unless she was paying, I preferred to limit our visits to that restaurant.

 

 

 

And, I live in a very conservative neck of the woods where some dating practices from decades ago haven't died. I have dated a few women who have I doubt have ever gone Dutch or paid for a date themselves. It's made the dating life interesting up here.

 

 

 

There's another expensive restaurant in the area that I can't stand as the food isn't very good. But, most of the women I have dated in this area have asked to be taken there as it's the a part of some weird dating ritual that they're used to. Some have even asked on the first date and I shoot it down as a) I know they're don't want to go Dutch and b)I'm not spending $60+ dollars on a first date.

 

 

 

In the summer, a local theater hosts traveling plays and they put on some quality productions. The shows are decent but tickets don't come cheap and I've also found this to basically be an expected outing with some women and they're certainly not offering to pay. I've been told by men in the area that a standard first or second date in the summers around here is dinner at the over-priced restaurant and then hitting up whatever play is in at the theater.

 

 

 

Nope.

 

Good for you. Honestly, it's pretty despicable to ask to be taken to a certain expensive restaurant when they will doubtless not be putting their hand in their pocket. If you aren't willing to pay then keep it zipped.

 

I had a woman at the end of a recent first date announce that I should take her to dinner for the 2nd date and then she challenged me with "and you better not be a Nando's kind of guy". She had her game honed to a fine edge, the worst bit of all is that I fell for her challenge hook line and sinker. 4 dates later and £200+ out of my pocket on meals later and she ghosted me

 

In dating, more than any other walk of life, the fool and his money are soon (and usually very easily) parted...

[OatsAndHall]

Good for you. Honestly, it's pretty despicable to ask to be taken to a certain expensive restaurant when they will doubtless not be putting their hand in their pocket. If you aren't willing to pay then keep it zipped.

 

I had a woman at the end of a recent first date announce that I should take her to dinner for the 2nd date and then she challenged me with "and you better not be a Nando's kind of guy". She had her game honed to a fine edge, the worst bit of all is that I fell for her challenge hook line and sinker. 4 dates later and £200+ out of my pocket on meals later and she ghosted me

 

In dating, more than any other walk of life, the fool and his money are soon (and usually very easily) parted...

 

 

Danke.

 

 

Dating up in this area the last three years has been interesting because of what they consider to be norms. I never ran into it in any other area of the country I've dated in so it was a shock.

[gaius]

It's not a bad thing for a woman to ask for things or share her preferences. It's up to you as a man to determine what woman is worthy of your time and money, and whether or not you can comfortably say yes to what she's asking for. And to not get butthurt if you make a poor choice or let her take the lead to your detriment. Because that's on you. Women don't owe you anything for spending money on them.

[OatsAndHall]

It's not a bad thing for a woman to ask for things or share her preferences. It's up to you as a man to determine what woman is worthy of your time and money, and whether or not you can comfortably say yes to what she's asking for. And to not get butthurt if you make a poor choice or let her take the lead to your detriment. Because that's on you. Women don't owe you anything for spending money on them.

 

 

No one ever said nor implied that a woman owed a man anything for a date. None of the frequent male posters on this site have ever said anything along those lines, on this thread or others.

 

 

 

If I didn't feel a woman was worth my time, I wouldn't be dating them. And, that should be the only measurement of "worth" when it comes to dating; not the amount of money that one spends. But, that is what I run into in my neck of the woods; some people use the expensive restaurant and play tickets to gauge interest which I find backwards and shallow.

 

 

A date consisting of that particular restaurant followed by a play is considered the pinnacle of romance around here and it's simply due to the price tag that goes with it. And, that is why I suggest alternative dates; if a woman is going to find me wanting because I'm not willing to spend a large sum of money on a first or second date then it's not going to work as is.