The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[Woggle]

What if I don't want an arm piece? I wouldn't want one if I were single. Any man with a big enough bank account can pay an attractive woman to be seen with him and be his arm candy but it is much harder to find a woman who truly loves and has your back and enjoys having you in her life. When you see each other you see the love in her eyes and hear it in her voice and you just feel it radiating off of her. A man can't buy that with any amount of money and to me arm candy is a waste of money.

[Woggle]

1 hour ago, enigma32 said:

I agree with you Woggle. But, I can also understand why some of those rich old dudes hook up with hot young girls. They gave up on love, like many others, and are happy nailing a pretty girl instead. 

I guess and as long as both parties know the score then why not but any man thinking that money will buy a woman's love and attraction is a fool. 

[VioletVelvet]

On 1/23/2020 at 1:30 PM, Woggle said:

What if I don't want an arm piece? I wouldn't want one if I were single. Any man with a big enough bank account can pay an attractive woman to be seen with him and be his arm candy but it is much harder to find a woman who truly loves and has your back and enjoys having you in her life. When you see each other you see the love in her eyes and hear it in her voice and you just feel it radiating off of her. A man can't buy that with any amount of money and to me arm candy is a waste of money.

Exactly. Then there should be give and take (in other words, the man and woman should both pay). And then once a relationship is established you collectively make your own standards if one partner has a much larger income than the other, for example.

And as above ^^ if the rich dude wants to date a hot young woman then there won't be a question of who's paying, will there? But I was referring to just a not-rich, not-old guy who likes to date arm candy. As Dolly Parton said, it takes a lot of money to look that cheap. 

[salparadise]

On 1/22/2020 at 2:44 PM, VioletVelvet said:

if you are male and want to date mani-pedicured, hair done, eyelashed, waxed, trendy outfit kind of women then you should expect to pay because that kind of maintenance is really expensive and your arm piece doesn't come cheap. 

I almost spewed coffee all over my laptop! I feel sorry for any man who is attracted to that.

I've gone out with a super nice woman a few times recently, and we're on the same wavelength. She's smart, attractive, educated with a lot of awareness in the social/emotional realms. She offered to split on the first date at a nice restaurant (which I declined), and then yesterday she insisted on picking up the check. Not that it was unusual or unexpected, just nice how she sees it as equal opportunity social interaction, and does not have the mentality that she's doing me a favor by showing up, or that it's the man's duty. She's also not a painted arm piece––she's naturally attractive without enhancements, and it's just not who she is. Thankfully, women I'm attracted to seem to get it. 

[some_username1]

On 1/9/2020 at 3:05 PM, thefooloftheyear said:

Ok great....

But you do realize that the "investment" they are making could easily be just to get into your pants, right?  The fact that they are initiating/ paying really isn't something a woman should use to qualify a guy as a legitimate prospect....

TFY

And even worse, if he’s thinking “well, she’s still cheaper than a prostitute” it puts the “investment” in a whole different light.

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm realizing this is a loaded topic, and evolving my thinking on the matter.

In my 20s, I always insisted on going roughly equal on dating expenses. I moved in with a boyfriend and he offered to pay all the rent and bills, but I insisted on 50/50. My thinking was that this would make it clear nobody had any rights or obligations, we were with each other for reasons unrelated to finances, those being love and real connection. He did pay for certain things I could not afford at the time, such as airfare and hotel for a few weekend trips, but it was always discussed in advance and I still paid some of the expenses, like some meals and transportation within the city.

In time I swung to more traditional / old school practices. Men always offered to pay and sometimes resisted when I offered, so I went with that flow.

Now I'm swinging back the other way, in a relationship where power issues have emerged. He has a lot more money than I do, but I'm assuming more of the dating expenses, in an effort to balance the power and communicate that nobody "owes" anybody anything beyond respect, courtesy, honesty, etc. 

I'm not sure how it will all play out. He's already recommended a couple of trips in the near future that are not in my budget. He's offered to pay for everything, but I feel unsure about whether to accept. I don't feel he lords this over me, but something is making me hesitate.

I'd be glad to hear any thoughts on this matter from men who typically earn more than their dates/girlfriends. Do you feel that if you pay for luxuries/splurges like trips and nice dinners, she owes you something? You may not consciously think that, but if you consider your feelings deep down in the subconscious, what do you think/feel?

[SumGuy]

2 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I'd be glad to hear any thoughts on this matter from men who typically earn more than their dates/girlfriends. Do you feel that if you pay for luxuries/splurges like trips and nice dinners, she owes you something? You may not consciously think that, but if you consider your feelings deep down in the subconscious, what do you think/feel?

I don't, not even subconsciously.  I do realize I am likely rare in this regard.  I've heard it too often in my life from other guys what they expect, especially the "nice guys".  My generosity or magnanimity comes with no strings attached, in fact strings make it a transaction.  I don't even expect a thank you, but always get one.

There may be a couple other reasons.  A $100 dinner is not thing for me these days, it's comparable to a $2 dinner in my college days.   That's one reason I always shake my head when women get impressed by rich men spending money on them, it's nothing to them, no sacrifice, no indication you are special. 

Another, I come from some very humble beginnings.  In my life people helped me out, sometimes complete strangers, with no strings at all, and always when asked what could do to pay them back they say one day do the same.  And some of them were doing the same, just paying it back.

On trips (non-trivial expenses) I get plenty of benefit from having her along, it is part of the experience for me and it builds an us.  I'm all about an us.  So I don't feel she owes me anything.  Don't agree to go though if you don't want to go, or are checking out or are going to be a complainer ( I understand work and responsibility stress, after all that is why we vacation).  I don't expect sex or payback, I won't accept negativity and complaining though (especially I am very up front about plans and seek and accept input).

[Ruby Slippers]

4 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

On trips (non-trivial expenses) I get plenty of benefit from having her along, it is part of the experience for me and it builds an us.  I'm all about an us.  So I don't feel she owes me anything.  Don't agree to go though if you don't want to go, or are checking out or are going to be a complainer ( I understand work and responsibility stress, after all that is why we vacation).  I don't expect sex or payback, I won't accept negativity and complaining though (especially I am very up front about plans and seek and accept input).

I love seeing new places and totally want to go, have been very expressive of thanks and would never complain about a free trip. He's already suggested a tropical beach vacation, which has been on my dream list for a while now. I could pay for this myself, but I'm getting all my ducks in a row, being fiscally responsible, paying off my last lingering car debt, building up an emergency fund and lining myself up for serious retirement investing before I splurge on anything like that. 

My concerns are on the other end of the spectrum. I have a strong sense of justice, and if he's treating me to things like trips I wouldn't be doing otherwise, then I naturally want to offset that somehow. For example, I'm domestic and like taking care of the house, so as an unspoken thanks for things like this, I happily clean his place, do his laundry, cook for him, give him massages. I'm nurturing and giving by nature, would probably do all this in any case. But him providing things I couldn't afford otherwise makes it a no-brainer.

I guess my concern is that if he's spending a lot more, I start to feel like I owe him a lot and can't keep up with it, feel pressure. I don't feel he puts this pressure on me. It's self-imposed. 

[Woggle]

Score keeping in any relationship is not good. I know in mine we have never had financial power struggles. I think the issue that most men have is that a lot though not all women shout from the rooftops about how much they don't to follow traditional roles and think it is beneath them to go anything feminine for a man but still demand men live up to their traditional roles. You can only hear how much you are not needed and not wanted before you say the hell with being a gentleman. My wife has never once believed in that crap so I am chivalrous towards with no issue at all.

[SumGuy]

13 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I guess my concern is that if he's spending a lot more, I start to feel like I owe him a lot and can't keep up with it, feel pressure. I don't feel he puts this pressure on me. It's self-imposed. 

That's because you're a decent person.    Don't discount all you do for him in the day to day domestic front.  How much would a live in maid and cook be?  How much time are you saving him by doing all these things?  It's just not the hours but the fact he has more uninterrupted time and can relax more.  If it was me, I'd likely see it as paying you back for all you've done.  

Again, if it was me, and looking at an us, I'd rather have you pay off your debts and get your finances in order.  In a relationship we each contribute what we can to the us, if his life is better at the money part and yours at the time part then that is fine, it's a partnership, a team.  Should I get into sports analogies?  

[Els]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I'd be glad to hear any thoughts on this matter from men who typically earn more than their dates/girlfriends. Do you feel that if you pay for luxuries/splurges like trips and nice dinners, she owes you something? You may not consciously think that, but if you consider your feelings deep down in the subconscious, what do you think/feel?

When H and I were dating, I was a student or fresh grad and he earned a lot more than me. He has never treated me or the relationship as a "tit for tat" - he likes making me happy, and I like making him happy in my own way. I didn't expect or ask to be splurged on though - whenever he did, it was always of his own accord and by his own decision.

[Ruby Slippers]

1 hour ago, SumGuy said:

That's because you're a decent person.    Don't discount all you do for him in the day to day domestic front.  How much would a live in maid and cook be?  How much time are you saving him by doing all these things?  It's just not the hours but the fact he has more uninterrupted time and can relax more.  If it was me, I'd likely see it as paying you back for all you've done.  

Good point. According to a quick Google search, it's very expensive! He's absolutely raved about how much he appreciates and values all the "wifey" stuff I do for him.

 

[Ruby Slippers]

25 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

If I do anything for my GF, whether it be financially or otherwise, I do not feel like she owes me anything. I do it because I enjoy doing it.

This sounds like him, too.

I think our issues likely have nothing to do with money, just aspects of our psyche and personality coming out. I guess I need to try to relax about the financial disparity.

[Ruby Slippers]

1 minute ago, Elswyth said:

He has never treated me or the relationship as a "tit for tat" - he likes making me happy, and I like making him happy in my own way. I didn't expect or ask to be splurged on though - whenever he did, it was always of his own accord and by his own decision.

Same here. He's never suggested I owe him anything. I've also never asked him to buy anything for me.

I just applied to get access to the gated parking garage and gym at his apartment, since I'm now staying with him during the week for the much shorter commute, and right now he has to use an app to remotely buzz me in every time, kind of a pain. He offered to pay the $65 admin fee to process the application. I said I appreciate it, but it's for my convenience so I'll pay it, and I did.

[Cookiesandough]

Money has never been an issue in any of my dating situations. I wouldn’t date someone who made me feel tit for tat about things. That being said, I like to pay my way in life and be 50/50 for the most part. For example, my ex bought me $500 festival tickets and never made issue about me paying him back -but I did 

[NuevoYorko]

Just for reference, it's not golddigging women who established the paradigm of men paying for dates.  Just putting that out there.

[Shining One]

2 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Do you feel that if you pay for luxuries/splurges like trips and nice dinners, she owes you something? You may not consciously think that, but if you consider your feelings deep down in the subconscious, what do you think/feel?

I don't feel that she owes me things specifically in response to things I do for her, but I do feel she should be doing something too. Resentment and loss of respect builds up the more one-sided things appear to be.

[Ruby Slippers]

1 minute ago, Shining One said:

I don't feel that she owes me things specifically in response to things I do for her, but I do feel she should be doing something too. Resentment and loss of respect builds up the more one-sided things appear to be.

That makes sense.

I wasn't too worried about this until a recent argument where he was a jerk. He's since apologized sincerely, several times in several ways, words and actions.

But part of me is wondering if he feels entitled to behave in this way due to financial considerations. Rationally I don't think it's the case. I think the episode probably would have happened no matter how much either of us had been spending, so it's not about that.

[TheDao]

 

On 4/25/2015 at 11:36 AM, writergal said:

I don't think that a man paying for a date is a good indicator that he will be a good provider. Have to disagree with that belief.

His credit card could be nearly maxed out with no savings.

[Ruby Slippers]

I had a good talk with my boyfriend about this last night and it put my mind at ease.

I told him I'm scared that if I let him pay for things, he'll think it's OK to be a jerk like he was that night. He said he doesn't think I owe him anything because he pays, he was a stupid jerk that night and it had nothing to do with money, again, he's very sorry, and that's not going to happen again.

@SumGuy, he agreed with everything you said, and added that he likes going out to eat, taking trips, and so on, but he doesn't enjoy doing any of that alone. He might spend $50 on dinner for himself, or $100 on dinner for us, but he wouldn't even go out on his own, and having me there with him makes it more than worth it. He said taking me on trips with him is a no-brainer, because I'm really good at finding cool, hip, unique places and shows that he wouldn't be able to find himself. It costs barely more to take me on a trip with him than to take just himself, but he doesn't enjoy going alone.

He then said his hope is that I'm by his side for the rest of our lives. If he has me there with him through the years, that's worth at least a million dollars, so the investment now is more than worth it for the return of my company for the rest of his life. 

I feel like I can relax now!

[salparadise]

On 1/28/2020 at 2:14 PM, Ruby Slippers said:

I'm not sure how it will all play out. He's already recommended a couple of trips in the near future that are not in my budget. He's offered to pay for everything, but I feel unsure about whether to accept. I don't feel he lords this over me, but something is making me hesitate.

I can see why you'd be hesitant. Recent experience is the context of this feeling, and righty so. If I were you I'd neutralize the financial disparity by insisting that you pay a share of the expenses (not necessary 50/50, but more than a token amount), and if that's not in your budget, then decline... at least for awhile until the recent debacle is history and a new relationship dynamic based in respect is well established. He needs to understand that throwing cash around does not put him back in the catbird seat with you. IOW, your dignity and respect are not for sale.

 

On 1/28/2020 at 2:14 PM, Ruby Slippers said:

I'd be glad to hear any thoughts on this matter from men who typically earn more than their dates/girlfriends. Do you feel that if you pay for luxuries/splurges like trips and nice dinners, she owes you something?

Me personally, no. But some men do think that way. I'd think she owed me the same as I would expect in any good relationship. But some unevolved types believe that flashing cash makes them entitled (to damn near anything). It's narcissistic. I'm thinking about one couple in particular––the wife was very sweet and dutiful, but that man was, ugh. If I had been single at the time... I wonder if she ever got away from him. So the answer is it depends on the man... and the woman. It only works when she is complicit and allows it to continue.

[Nate4U]

I actually feel as a man, you should be a gentleman and not an a**h***. Money comes and go but if the dates go well, then you have yourself something to cherish forever. It’s the right thing to do and even if you are on a budget, a couple of bucks for a date will not set you back so much. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Nate4U

[Cookiesandough]

So a couple weeks ago I had a date with a guy and I told him in the car  that hey I would really like to pay for my own dinner. And he said it’s a good thing to talk about this beforehand, but he was curious why. I said that it’s 2020 and I just want to pay for my own stuff and it makes me happy  and some guys take it as a sign of disinterest, but that’s not necessarily true. And I really mean that, but in this case I just was not into him and didn’t want him investing anything. Happens that way often 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[5x5]

58 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

It's 2020, I think men should start asking for our free dinners. We get hungry too!

Did you not get the memo? 🙂

Through the 1990s I've had some women pick me up in their cars, take me to dinner and the movies before taking me to their place while paying for it al (since they asked me out) Then there were all the times when different women would also share the costs as well.

That kind of thing has always been the norm in my experience.

[simpycurious]

On 2/18/2020 at 4:37 PM, enigma32 said:

Not everyone out there is a legit pimp like me or you, man. I mean, I can't step out of my house without a gaggle of girls throwing their panties at me. It's like my own little lacy red carpet leading to my car. Not everyone lives that life though. I am lookin out for the every day guy here. 

Enigma, 

At least you own it.  Do the women "always" expect a little "something" "something" from you since they have "invested" in you?  If so, does it make you

feel easy/cheap?