The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[xxoo]

But if I hear a woman say "Whoever plans should pay" one more time...I mean considering the fact that men plan 90% of the dates, it works out in their favor doesn't it? It's just a skewed logic they love using to justify being cheap. Don't get me wrong. I love planning and paying MOST of the time. But if a woman expects me to do all the work the entire time we're together, she won't be dating me.

 

90% after bf/gf is established? I wouldn't expect that to be true. Eventually, it should grow in to a more relaxed, "I heard about this event happening this weekend. Wanna go?"

[writergal]

It's all done on the unconscious level. Like a man never stops to ask directions when he's lost, he is not aware of his behavior and why he's doing it. He just knows he wants to do it on his own.

 

I said that *I* don't think a man paying for a date is proof that he will be a financially stable provider in my life. Your response doesn't really address that. It sounds like what you're saying is that you believe that on a subconscious level, men believe that by paying for a date, they show the woman that they are a good provider. Is that correct?

 

The only way I will believe that a man is a good provider, is when he shows me that he is. But paying for my dinner and a movie ticket? All that shows me is that he likes me enough, and that he follows normal social conventions. That's it.

[SawtoothMars]

whether woman or man pays it doesnt matter. However, my personal view is that man shouldnt be relying on woman to pay most of times.. That is so not gentleman of him.

I have this particular male friend whom I ended go out with, pays for almost everything. Dinner, coffee and cinema ticket..

Both woman and man are working adult.. so lets just be fair..

 

This whole thing doesn't happen in a vacuum. Women under 30 dramatically out earn men under 30. Men have in the past used date paying as a way to out compete one another and gain sexual advantage. Today many men simply don't have the money because the HUGE influx of women into the work force has wiped out a generation of wage increases. I mean we are talking 80 million workers since 1980. Additionally, and this isn't well understood, the educational system has become so geared towards girls that boys are failing at mind boggling rates... leaving the colleges pushing 70% female.

 

I think a lot of these guys feel the situation is like an employer that forces people to pay money to have an interview.

 

I think a man should pay for the date because I think it's romantic and chivalrous.

And I don't think that a man paying for a date is a good-natured form of sexism either, where the man's expectation is that his date will reimburse him with sex, for paying for her dinner or movie or whatever they do for their date. I think men are better than that, aren't they? Men pay for dates because they want to.

 

That is a stereotype, and like all stereotypes it fits some but not others. As a general rule most men do not expect sex in exchange for paying. However, polls indicate that about 30% of men... and typically the guys who insist on paying actually feel justified in RAPING a woman if they pay for the date.

 

In other words to a significant chunk of men paying for dates is a license to get extremely sexually aggressive.

[writergal]

Oh yes, true.

Once went out with a man who split every payment down the middle, but it did start to get a bit ridiculous when it got down to the last penny. Trying to find small change to pay my half, and getting small change back when I over paid, was a bit silly.

He was in fact very mean with his money generally when I got to know him better. He wasn't poor, just mean.

So whilst I was thinking "equality" and proud to pay my half, he was thinking of the pennies.

 

Exactly. The man paying for a woman's part of their date isn't a reliable indicator and shouldn't be.

[writergal]

This whole thing doesn't happen in a vacuum. Women under 30 dramatically out earn men under 30. Men have in the past used date paying as a way to out compete one another and gain sexual advantage. Today many men simply don't have the money because the HUGE influx of women into the work force has wiped out a generation of wage increases. I mean we are talking 80 million workers since 1980. Additionally, and this isn't well understood, the educational system has become so geared towards girls that boys are failing at mind boggling rates... leaving the colleges pushing 70% female.

 

I think a lot of these guys feel the situation is like an employer that forces people to pay money to have an interview.

 

 

 

That is a stereotype, and like all stereotypes it fits some but not others. As a general rule most men do not expect sex in exchange for paying. However, polls indicate that about 30% of men... and typically the guys who insist on paying actually feel justified in RAPING a woman if they pay for the date.

 

In other words to a significant chunk of men paying for dates is a license to get extremely sexually aggressive.

 

I never said that all men expect sex when they pay for a date. I think you misread my post entirely.

 

I wrote that I don't believe in the sexism that is attached to that social convention (men pay for women's dates because they want sex). I clearly wrote that I don't believe THAT. I wrote that I think men should pay for dates because it's romantic and chivalrous. Not because men expect sex.

[SawtoothMars]

It's all done on the unconscious level. Like a man never stops to ask directions when he's lost, he is not aware of his behavior and why he's doing it. He just knows he wants to do it on his own.

 

Listen... for the vast majority of human evolution women DID NOT CHOOSE their own mate. This was typically decided between families. This notion of "romantic love" is very new and very Christian in origin. I believe it first took hold among the nobility of France in the 1300's as part of the Chivalry movement.

 

The point is that non of this crap is really biological. It is instead socialized behavior and feelings. As humans we are very adaptable.

[SawtoothMars]

I never said that all men expect sex when they pay for a date. I think you misread my post entirely.

I wrote that I don't believe in the sexism that is attached to that social convention (men pay for women's dates because they want sex). I clearly wrote that I don't believe THAT. I wrote that I think men should pay for dates because it's romantic and chivalrous. Not because men expect sex.

 

I understood what you were saying. I'm just pointing out that it isn't just about you and what you want. You may want the guy to pay because you are thinking social custom and chivalry... meanwhile he is wanting to pay so he doesn't feel bad about date raping you. Whether you believe in it or not, there are plenty of men who think this way.

[gaius]

You see the same behavior in a lot of primates actually, where the guy gets no love unless he resource shares.

 

It's as biological a way to stimulate a woman as paying attention to her clit. Plus it's feminine to let a girl pay for you. =/ I'm not interested in playing the feminine role but maybe some guys are.

[writergal]

Listen... for the vast majority of human evolution women DID NOT CHOOSE their own mate. This was typically decided between families. This notion of "romantic love" is very new and very Christian in origin. I believe it first took hold among the nobility of France in the 1300's as part of the Chivalry movement.

 

The point is that non of this crap is really biological. It is instead socialized behavior and feelings. As humans we are very adaptable.

 

I read Gaeta's post and she did not attach biology to social convention. Where did you get that from? What are you saying? That our subconscious thoughts are not biological? That makes no sense at all. Gaeta's post was what she thought men think on a subconscious level when they pay for a woman on a date.

 

So, are you saying? That you believe that romantic love isn't biological and is an invention of the Medieval Code of Chivalry social norms that started in 13th Century France? That can't be true. Have you watched French movies? Haha!

[elaine567]

Plus it's feminine to let a girl pay for you.

 

Yes, I believe that is the way people in general think, and why men want to do it and why women let them.

Real men pay for their dates, wusses moan about it.

[gaius]

My uncle had a roommate who was super cheap with women. He'd have this whole routine about never spending a dime more than he had to on a date. Never dinner, always drinks, at a place with a deal if possible, making sure they went dutch. And he would post so many fake ads on craigslist and weed through so many emails that he still managed to do pretty well for himself. Was very adept at pretending to be what the girl he was seeing wanted him to be. The only time I heard it failed was when he pretended to be a vegan, I guess she could smell the hamburger on him.

 

One time one of the few girls he had actually dated for a while showed up after he broke up with her, accusing him of being gay and stuff. I guess he was having her do weird fem stuff to him in the bedroom or something. He had been using not paying to sort out the women who weren't willing to take on the masculine role. That kind of stuff plays into relationship dynamics quite a bit, so make sure you want to be the girl in the relationship before you start up with that I'm not gonna pay stuff.

[Shining One]

I paid for the first date with my current girlfriend and she paid for the second. We kept taking turns until we made it official and now I pay for the vast majority. I'm happy with this. I make more than she does and she has kids, so less disposable income.

 

What I'm not happy with is paying for everything on early dates. There is no confirmation of interest, so it's just throwing money into a wishing well. I would rather spend $1,000 on a girlfriend than $100 on a date with unconfirmed interest.

Edited April 25, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed derogatory remark

[elaine567]

That kind of stuff plays into relationship dynamics quite a bit, so make sure you want to be the girl in the relationship before you start up with that I'm not gonna pay stuff.

 

Never really thought of it like that, but I think you have something there. I suppose if I, as a woman started paying for dates or the majority of dates, then I am really making a play for power, for control, and for some men to accept that, then they are accepting my dominant role in the relationship.

He who pays the piper calls the tune

[smackie9]

Never really thought of it like that, but I think you have something there. I suppose if I, as a woman started paying for dates or the majority of dates, then I am really making a play for power, for control, and for some men to accept that, then they are accepting my dominant role in the relationship.

He who pays the piper calls the tune

 

Or the guy is normally just a penny pinchin cheapass.

[Haydn]

Fella`s in `Braintree` pay for most dates.........

[barcode88]

There needs to be a Men SHOULD pay for the first 2 dates option.

 

For that reason I voted for men/women both pay.

[smg15]

I think it'c cheaper to have someone come over my place and we order dinner lol

[Maleficent]

I'll always offer to pay half or my part. It feels weird not too. However, if the man responds with a 'nan I got it' I usually just say 'ok thank you.'

[LifeandPerseverance]

Women get turned on by a guy paying on a primal level, and the more you turn them on the more they want to turn you on.

 

 

There may actually be something to this. I just figured it was the thoughtfulness aspect?

 

 

I don't know. I feel like whoever invites the other on the date should pay. Regardless of gender. The pursuer should pay.

[xxoo]

Most women expect men to pay for dates because they can. Dating is a competition. As a man, if you aren't willing to pay for the a date, whatever woman you are interested in can probably find a guy who will pay. Why should she date you? Unless you are much better looking than she is, she will most likely pick someone else.

 

Women don't pick guys because they can/will pay. Well, some do, but the vast majority aren't picking men that way.

 

We pick they guy we like. The guy we hope likes us, too. The guy that we are attracted to.

 

Paying says, "I like you." Paying says, "You're special enough to treat." It's not a guarantee of his interest or genuineness, but it's an early sign, whereas not paying can also be interpreted as a sign of the opposite.

 

It's really not about getting free food.

[Phoe]

my most recent ex is the only one I've been with who paid. 100% insisted and wouldn't accept any contribution from me.

 

My exes before that we either bought our own way, or just didn't go on dates that involved spending money.

 

Having been used to paying for myself, my ex was a very new experience, and since I naturally can sometimes be averse to people spending money on me, it took a while for me to stop being so worked up and feeling terrible about it. If I tried to grab the check he'd wrestle it out of my hands. I eventually accepted that it was something he enjoyed doing. And then towards the end, came the fights and the insinuations about his paying for me and I thought "oh. okay. yep. gonna hold it over my head that you paid, even when I tried to. Thanks."

 

So that leaves me a bit leery. Everything I own, I bought, save for a necklace from my parents and my flute which was from my grandmother. Otherwise, I fully pay for myself in all aspects of life.

[MrNate 2.0]

I automatically assume I'm paying.

 

Not out of obligation, but because i believe men should pay, at least early on.

 

I'm a fan keeping things simple. And the simple truth is paying gives off a masculine vibe to the woman, and it makes her feel feminine.

 

Plus, it's just the stud thing to do. And it never, ever hurts your chances.

[smg15]

I automatically assume I'm paying.

 

Not out of obligation, but because i believe men should pay, at least early on.

 

I'm a fan keeping things simple. And the simple truth is paying gives off a masculine vibe to the woman, and it makes her feel feminine.

 

Plus, it's just the stud thing to do. And it never, ever hurts your chances.

 

It makes her feel feminine when she is interested.

[MrNate 2.0]

It makes her feel feminine when she is interested.

 

Seeing she agreed to go out with you, it's usually safe to say there's at least some there.

[Shining One]

Seeing she agreed to go out with you, it's usually safe to say there's at least some there.

Not necessarily. I've been out with quite a few women who decided on the first date that they had no sexual interest in me, but enjoyed my company otherwise. They were happy to keep things going without any progress forward.