The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[CptInsano]

I love it! At least it's one way to get a second date.

[victoria88]

As a woman, if you meet a guy on a first date, do you consider paying (or paying your share) or do you assume he will pay?

 

As a guy, do you just automatically assume you are paying?

 

1) As a woman I think during dates I can pay the bill (2 times out of 4), or we can split with him the bill (everyone pays his/her part).

It is fair this way, I do not expect a man should pay for me (unless if we are married).

 

2) I never assume that men I date should always pay the bill...

 

p.s. I like the questions asked here.

Perhaps we can make another thread for independent women: How do men feel about them?

[SevenCity]

I have found a pattern recently in several of the women I date and I'm curious to hear opinions.

 

When I start dating a girl I pay for everything but appreciate and sort of expect they reach for their wallet. I've never taken a girl up on her offer until we were a couple but I've found that women who offer tend to be more generous partners in general.

 

Once we become exclusive, I like to look at things more 50/50. I don't like when the financial burden is always on me. I make good money and am smart with my finances to the point where I will not do something (like going out to eat when I can eat at home) because it is wasteful to me. I have money in the bank, no debt, and am well on my way to paying off my house.

 

I don't expect a woman to take me out or spend money on me either - im typically happy just spending time with someone regardless of what we are doing.

 

In my adventures in dating, I've run across more than one woman who has complained I don't spend / take them out enough (they are not spending much of anything). Several of these women either lived with roommates or even at home (in their 40s mind you) and are perfectly happy spending all they make with no savings or long term plan. They have stated that "all other guys" take them out and spend money (all of these guys are in the "I have nothing, let's spend it" mentality and have similar roommate situations with no tangible assets - common in NYC).

 

I've been called "not a gentlemen" or not "chivalrous" by some - despite me paying all the time but not going out to eat often. When they get like this, I begin to feel like I'm dating a prostitute. I spend, we have sex, and I quickly loose interest.

 

I would not go as far to say they are gold diggers, but rather have an expectation that a bf should be taking them out all the time - even if it costs $500 / month which is easy in my area. They don't seem to comprehend the value of money - or worry about the future.

 

So what do most guys here do? Take them to dinner / drinks once a week? What do most women expect?

[Gaeta]

I think the problem is what women you pick. 40 something with room-mates? We're not talking financially secure women here. It sounds like these women you are dating are looking for a man to treat them as they can't afford to do it themselves?

 

I have never expected a man to treat me to restaurants. Sure for a 2nd date it's ok but that's it. First I don't like restaurants that much and there are so many other different fun things to do that don't cost a leg and an arm. I'd get bored pretty fast at someone that wants to dine and wine me each weekend.

 

In a relationship both should provide for the outings but I don't like keeping track of who paid what. It should come naturally and from the heart.

[angel.eyes]

Neither.

 

Focus on women who share your values and preferences. That will solve your problem

[Gaeta]

So what do most guys here do? Take them to dinner / drinks once a week? What do most women expect?

 

I expect restaurant on a 2nd or 3rd date, that's it. Then I want other types of dates. I want to be outside, be in parks, attend festivals, concerts, have a drink on a terrace, etc. And the cost should be shared from one time to another.

[The Urbanyst]

Never spend more than $20 on a woman per week. See if she sticks around. If she doesn't, you just saved a lot of time.

 

Women should be working to impress you too. If she doesn't seem to be trying to "catch" you that's also a very bad sign.

 

I used to buy into the whole "hard to get" thing, but I eventually realized women who play hard to get are never worth the extra effort or money. Like NEVER. So once that nonsense starts up I just move on.

[preraph]

Most men make a lot more money than most women, to begin with. Second, it's traditional for women to see what kind of person the man is financially, if he's a cheap guy keeping score like you, if he's making enough money to support her for some months should the relationship move toward marriage and family. There are practical reasons to dislike a man who is making you pay because he's not the one going to be needing some support and having the babies and no woman wants the man to think they get to call all the shots during the times when the woman is by necessity dependent on them. And believe me, this happens A LOT. A friend of mine didn't want kids but had promised her husband one early on and so he basically held her to it before he'd agree for them together to purchase a house. Now she has a kid and has zero money to spend on even something small from Target because he is the breadwinner now. No woman wants a cheap stingy man. That doesn't mean every man has to have the big bucks. None of the women I know married guys with any real money, but they can't be stingy and controlling.

 

Listen, a good wife will do so much for you than you ever have done or will do for her. The time and effort and shopping and planning that goes into her putting a mean on the table for a family is worth a lot more than a $30 dinner out. It's a time investment and hard work. Most of us would rather be working and have a say in what goes on in the household, but when having babies, that is just not usually possible. So you are being auditioned for a fit husband and father and failing miserably at this point.

 

I am 64 and I have never a day in my life depended on a man for any amount of money, not even $5, nor rent. But I would run from you as soon as I learned how cheap and stingy you are.

 

My best advice is to not take a woman on more dates than you can pay for or take her on some dates that are just a walk in the park or a drive by the lake. Don't live beyond your means. Most women will not hold that against you. But don't expect them to either. Most women struggle to make money and have a LOT more clothing expenses than you do.

[Redhead14]

Some women apply "early dating guidelines" forever . . . in other words, it's common to kinda expect the guy to pay for the first few dates at least as a sign of more genuine interest, but some women don't understand that that isn't supposed to be forever. A woman should offer to pay and actually pay after a few dates and start doing some initiating so the guy doesn't feel like he's doing all the work. The relationship becomes more reciprocal.

 

And, they do kind of assume some kind entitlement because that's how they interpret the guidelines -- she is the "prize", etc. But, that's really about maintaining her self-respect and creating boundaries and not getting herself involved with the wrong kind of guy. Not about her being a princess

[MountainGirl111]

I've never expected the man to pay for most of the stuff. That's just a foreign concept to me.

[SevenCity]

Most men make a lot more money than most women, to begin with. Second, it's traditional for women to see what kind of person the man is financially, if he's a cheap guy keeping score like you, if he's making enough money to support her for some months should the relationship move toward marriage and family. There are practical reasons to dislike a man who is making you pay because he's not the one going to be needing some support and having the babies and no woman wants the man to think they get to call all the shots during the times when the woman is by necessity dependent on them. And believe me, this happens A LOT. A friend of mine didn't want kids but had promised her husband one early on and so he basically held her to it before he'd agree for them together to purchase a house. Now she has a kid and has zero money to spend on even something small from Target because he is the breadwinner now. No woman wants a cheap stingy man. That doesn't mean every man has to have the big bucks. None of the women I know married guys with any real money, but they can't be stingy and controlling.

 

Listen, a good wife will do so much for you than you ever have done or will do for her. The time and effort and shopping and planning that goes into her putting a mean on the table for a family is worth a lot more than a $30 dinner out. It's a time investment and hard work. Most of us would rather be working and have a say in what goes on in the household, but when having babies, that is just not usually possible. So you are being auditioned for a fit husband and father and failing miserably at this point.

 

I am 64 and I have never a day in my life depended on a man for any amount of money, not even $5, nor rent. But I would run from you as soon as I learned how cheap and stingy you are.

 

My best advice is to not take a woman on more dates than you can pay for or take her on some dates that are just a walk in the park or a drive by the lake. Don't live beyond your means. Most women will not hold that against you. But don't expect them to either. Most women struggle to make money and have a LOT more clothing expenses than you do.

 

Interesting, although hate filled response!

 

I think you are being clouded by how things used to be in your generation. But still, allow me to address some specific points:

 

1) Most men make more money: This is not true anymore in many cases. But the important thing is disposable income. As a home owner you have expenses above and beyond someone who rents (or lives at home). It is a commitment as well as an investment.

 

2) I'm a cheap guy keeping score: Interesting how, if the roles were reversed (i.e. A woman paid all the time) how important that score would be, no? What about women who are with guys with no job / no ambition? Is it ok for them to keep score or are they cheap too?

 

3) Having babies: No where in my post did I say I want to have kids. I don't so that's not a factor.

 

4) Practical reasons to dislike a guy for making you pay: What is more practical long term? A guy with no money who lives paycheck to paycheck and takes you out spending all his money, or a guy who is thinking about future financial stability? How do you pay for these imaginary kids when all the money has gone to taking you out?

 

5) Women put in more effort: I don't discount the contribution of shopping or making dinner. But what does it say about a woman who has no financial responsibility? And where can you eat for $30 other than Denny's????

 

6) Clothing expenses: Look, if you are more worried about new clothes than how you are going to live when you are retired, your priorities are out of whack.

 

You seem to post as if women are helpless creatures that a man has to rescue. I don't agree. Women are more than capable of making a life for themselves. But I've seen all too often that they seem to depend on guys to take care of the money aspect once they get older.

 

I expect a women who can contribute equally to our finances (or in other ways). I'm past the point of kids and want to live comfortably as I get older and eventually retire.

[SevenCity]

Some women apply "early dating guidelines" forever . . . in other words, it's common to kinda expect the guy to pay for the first few dates at least as a sign of more genuine interest, but some women don't understand that that isn't supposed to be forever. A woman should offer to pay and actually pay after a few dates and start doing some initiating so the guy doesn't feel like he's doing all the work. The relationship becomes more reciprocal.

 

And, they do kind of assume some kind entitlement because that's how they interpret the guidelines -- she is the "prize", etc. But, that's really about maintaining her self-respect and creating boundaries and not getting herself involved with the wrong kind of guy. Not about her being a princess

 

Unfortunately that "some" is turning into "most" for me!

 

I'm perfectly happy to pay initially, but when it is not reciprocated I feel as if I am being taken advantage of and it makes me want to spend less on them.

 

I've also noticed the better looking women tend to be more like this. It's not surprising as their whole lives guys have tried to flatter and impress them (which they eventually dump anyway).

 

A couple of them had said it would be different once we were married / engaged. I fail to see how someone can change their views based upon relationship status and won't fall for that line.

[SevenCity]

I've actually had dates tell me that they would pay if they weren't interested in the guy (aka: I don't owe you anything).

 

It's interesting to see how paying for them is construed as a sort of honor.

 

When I'm dating, assuming I like the women, I enjoy paying. But if they like me it would go much further if they did a wallet reach rather than folding their arms and giving me the honor of the bill....

[Gaeta]

Do you live in a very conservative place? I don't think a Canadian woman could get away with this. At least none of us living in civilized parts of our country.

[littleblackheart]

What criteria do you use to choose your dating partners?

 

I ask because the men who have the sort of issue you describe typically tend to go for the looks factor above anything else.

[Bastile]

When they get like this, I begin to feel like I'm dating a prostitute. I spend, we have sex, and I quickly loose interest.

 

I've been the same. Though my dynamics haven't been like dating a prostitute (I don't spend very much) - more like dealing with a parasite, or a mooch.

 

I'm a fairly generous person. And I play the male role of planning and paying for the first few dates (up until sex). I watch the girls carefully up to that point for LTR worthy characteristics. The offer of paying for things - lightening my load - is high on that list.

 

The ones that are takers, rather than givers, get netflix 'n' chill after the initial sex. It just becomes a relationship of date nights inside, really.

 

Ones that are worthwhile I find offer to pay for things early. And I accept some of their offers as an easy way to segue into them paying their share more.

 

Those are the girls that get taken more seriously, and get taken out.

 

 

So what do most guys here do? Take them to dinner / drinks once a week? What do most women expect?

 

If I've not taken her seriously on this subject, then It's mostly date nights inside. Bring your own drink, bring a film (which we won't be watching anyway ), and I'll order food.

 

Girls that I've seriously dated, it's at least two proper dates weekly. One in the middle of the week - just something social with no sex. PDA, kissing, having a laugh. Probably go out around town, get some food, etc.

 

Another weekend date for sex. Could end up lasting the whole weekend. Usually going out to something that involves drinking. Sometimes a gig or something like that.

 

I find this has kept them wanting to escalate the relationship, keeps them stable and committed to me. Whilst also giving me time to keep approaching, and dating others on the side.

 

Anyway, that has been my past "rotation", if you like.

[clia]

If you won't go out to eat because you can eat at home and are dating women who like to go out to eat, that's a compatibility issue. Personally, I love going out to eat and trying new restaurants, not only for the food, but for the atmosphere and the people watching. I wouldn't date a guy for long who wanted to sit home all the time, especially if I lived in a place like NYC with all those great restaurants. (It sounds like that's where you live?) I expect to go out 2-4 times a week, minimum, for food and/or drinks. However, in an exclusive relationship, the cost of going out should certainly be split and I wouldn't expect my boyfriend to pay for it all. And there are definitely cheaper places you can go sometimes.

 

You say you are paying all the time, but not going out to eat often, then what are you paying for? How often are you taking them out?

 

Ultimately, though, this sounds more like a compatibility issue than a money issue.

[O'Malley]

Pay what you're comfortable paying for - "gold diggers" aren't going to be hanging around for long with someone who takes them out for coffee or a burger. I second free or more inexpensive outings on the initial dates: a hike, coffee or a cheaper local festival or museum exhibit. Clia brought up incompatibility and I agree. I've always have been fine with paying my way and treating if it's an outing that I'm looking forward to, but I'd be bored with someone who wanted to stay at their house for a date.

 

What's the common factor in your initial interest in these women? If you're asking out "hot" women who have expensive appearances or interests but don't have jobs that supports those tastes, you're engaging in a self fulfilling prophecy. There's a healthy balance on the spectrum between spending uncomfortable amounts on dates who can't be bothered to reciprocate and the lame a** offer of an evening of netflix.

[Wookin Pa Nub]

Find someone who has your financial traits. I missed that boat. I was raised by parents who grew up in great depression and taught me to save save save. My soon to be ex W caused me great financial stress during our marriage. She was pretty down to earth (not into high end stuff) but just had no financial acumen. If we had built up some savings, it had to be spent on something. This year she wanted to spend everything we had on a backyard project. She then told me to take out a loan to join the country club we live by. I am a golfer.

 

 

I also remember dating a girl many years ago. We were hanging out with another couple drinking beer at club. I offered to buy her another beer. She said get me a beer or some fancy drink I cant remember name of. I just got her a beer. Found out later that pissed her off and that I was cheap. She was fat and ugly so no big loss.

[SevenCity]

I've been the same. Though my dynamics haven't been like dating a prostitute (I don't spend very much) - more like dealing with a parasite, or a mooch.

 

I'm a fairly generous person. And I play the male role of planning and paying for the first few dates (up until sex). I watch the girls carefully up to that point for LTR worthy characteristics. The offer of paying for things - lightening my load - is high on that list.

 

The ones that are takers, rather than givers, get netflix 'n' chill after the initial sex. It just becomes a relationship of date nights inside, really.

 

Ones that are worthwhile I find offer to pay for things early. And I accept some of their offers as an easy way to segue into them paying their share more.

 

Those are the girls that get taken more seriously, and get taken out.

 

 

 

 

If I've not taken her seriously on this subject, then It's mostly date nights inside. Bring your own drink, bring a film (which we won't be watching anyway ), and I'll order food.

 

Girls that I've seriously dated, it's at least two proper dates weekly. One in the middle of the week - just something social with no sex. PDA, kissing, having a laugh. Probably go out around town, get some food, etc.

 

Another weekend date for sex. Could end up lasting the whole weekend. Usually going out to something that involves drinking. Sometimes a gig or something like that.

 

I find this has kept them wanting to escalate the relationship, keeps them stable and committed to me. Whilst also giving me time to keep approaching, and dating others on the side.

 

Anyway, that has been my past "rotation", if you like.

 

I always like your posts and this is no exception - great advice. I guess it's disappointing when I have that realization of "she's not LTR material". The last one came the closest but blew it up after a few months.

[SevenCity]

Do you live in a very conservative place? I don't think a Canadian woman could get away with this. At least none of us living in civilized parts of our country.

 

No, I'm in the suburbs of NYC and have been fishing in that liberal pool.

 

Liberal doesn't seem to translate i to paying their share.

[preraph]

I think if a woman was stingy, she wouldn't be asking guys out on dates. She'd decide she'd rather save money than spend it on taking a man out on a date.

 

And if you don't believe me on the women make less money, then look up the statistics. It's 74% of what men make in the US.

 

I write a restaurant blog and I do manage to eat out for anywhere between $7 and $20 per person. If I spend $20 on eating out for just me, it's a special treat. Maybe you live in NYC or something where everything is overpriced. Not my problem. But where I live, there's great taco places and other places.

 

If you ask a woman out, you pay. Now, you are free to wait for her to ask you out and pay, but she will probably just go out with someone else instead since she doesn't want a stingy guy for the rest of her life.

 

I think I offered plenty of alternatives for broke daters already, where it costs neither of you any money. And I think maybe finding a woman with no expectations like that is what you'll have to do eventually. I have a friend kind of like that and she found a boyfriend who got a kick out of garage sales and they eat a lot of bean burritos. I have to say she likes his frugality because she's frugal, but she also likes to go out to a nice restaurant sometimes, and that's not going to happen with him.

 

You can better get away with having no disposable income if you make yourself handy and thereby become someone who doesn't have to spend money on repairs and can live cheaply without doing without so much. But a cheap guy who isn't handy, I mean, what has he got to offer? Bottom line, if women can do better, they will. I don't mind broke guys for dating, and I've dated more than my fair share, but if someone didn't get it a little better together, I'd never marry them. I'd be looking for someone better organized, more ambitious, and more fun, with less worries and tension.

[SevenCity]

What criteria do you use to choose your dating partners?

 

I ask because the men who have the sort of issue you describe typically tend to go for the looks factor above anything else.

 

I don't date women I find unattractive, but looks are just a component.

 

Im pleanty happy with a girl who is pretty and not "hot" in the typical sense (and tend to find them more attractive the better the personality) but I like women who are thin. Thin is rare for women in their 40s around here it seems which may explain the expectations of them.

[knabe]

No, I'm in the suburbs of NYC and have been fishing in that liberal pool.

 

Liberal doesn't seem to translate i to paying their share.

 

I've noticed that too. Kind of hypocritical of the., isn't it.

[SevenCity]

I think if a woman was stingy, she wouldn't be asking guys out on dates. She'd decide she'd rather save money than spend it on taking a man out on a date.

 

And if you don't believe me on the women make less money, then look up the statistics. It's 74% of what men make in the US.

 

I write a restaurant blog and I do manage to eat out for anywhere between $7 and $20 per person. If I spend $20 on eating out for just me, it's a special treat. Maybe you live in NYC or something where everything is overpriced. Not my problem. But where I live, there's great taco places and other places.

 

If you ask a woman out, you pay. Now, you are free to wait for her to ask you out and pay, but she will probably just go out with someone else instead since she doesn't want a stingy guy for the rest of her life.

 

I think I offered plenty of alternatives for broke daters already, where it costs neither of you any money. And I think maybe finding a woman with no expectations like that is what you'll have to do eventually. I have a friend kind of like that and she found a boyfriend who got a kick out of garage sales and they eat a lot of bean burritos. I have to say she likes his frugality because she's frugal, but she also likes to go out to a nice restaurant sometimes, and that's not going to happen with him.

 

You can better get away with having no disposable income if you make yourself handy and thereby become someone who doesn't have to spend money on repairs and can live cheaply without doing without so much. But a cheap guy who isn't handy, I mean, what has he got to offer? Bottom line, if women can do better, they will. I don't mind broke guys for dating, and I've dated more than my fair share, but if someone didn't get it a little better together, I'd never marry them. I'd be looking for someone better organized, more ambitious, and more fun, with less worries and tension.

 

I'm far from broke and I'm very handy. I'll spend money where it's worth it.

 

Interesting how you call your female friend "frugal" but guys of the same mindset are "cheap".