The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[angel.eyes]

Wow, you really went the other way on this. I didn't get that at all. To me he comes off very generous and patient, with nothing going back his way.

 

You come off exactly like the women he's dating.

 

Sorry honey! I don't live paycheck to paycheck. Nor do I date disingenuous guys. Unlike the OP, I date and have relationships with guys who share my lifestyle, preferences and values. It keeps life simple and enjoyable. I suggested earlier that the OP do the same.

[angel.eyes]

Well, if you go down in quality, you can usually find someone younger, but they are the ones most likely to be after your money.

 

This in a nutshell is the OP's plight. He's gone down in quality to get women with the physical looks he wants (per his other threads), but of those, the only ones who are willing to date him are living with roommates and struggling financially. The pretty, thin ones who do have their act together, have other options.

[Cora]

I always offer to pay my share. It's only fair afterall. Not many guys accept though so I'll just say the next one's on me. I feel bad if I don't. A lot of guys will say he's paying because he was the one who asked me out. Still don't think it's right for me to freeload though which is normally what it feels like to me.

[Shining One]

Likewise, there's lots of nice women who will treat men well.

I think this is what SevenCity is looking for. He is demonstrating his generosity early on. What's not happening is the women demonstrating their generosity in turn.

[angel.eyes]

And that's a direct result of who he's choosing to date. He can choose differently.

[Shining One]

And that's a direct result of who he's choosing to date. He can choose differently.

While I agree with this, I would pose a question: How does he choose better? I posed a similar question in the past and the consensus was that it was not possible to prescreen for this mindset. The only solution was trial and error.

[jay1983]

I think she means less physically attractive. Which I do believe will solve the problem.

[Shining One]

I think she means less physically attractive. Which I do believe will solve the problem.

While lowering standards will increase the odds of finding matches, I don't believe it's necessary in this case. I've dated unattractive women who never looked at their purses on a date and very attractive women who insisted on contributing their fair share. The mindset isn't necessarily linked to attractiveness, at least in my experience.

[jay1983]

While lowering standards will increase the odds of finding matches, I don't believe it's necessary in this case. I've dated unattractive women who never looked at their purses on a date and very attractive women who insisted on contributing their fair share. The mindset isn't necessarily linked to attractiveness, at least in my experience.

 

I know that's true somewhere, but in most instances, the more attractive the girl, the more entitled she is. It almost never fails. Attractive women are use to having doors opened for them. (literally and figuratively) Damn near every dude wants a shot at the hot chick and he's gonna do his best to impress. That's the reason for the lopsided ratio.

[angel.eyes]

It's not so much entitled as it is having numerous, better choices available.

 

Add to that, he's part of the bridge and tunnel crowd trying to date in NYC. That's another massive negative in that particular dating market that wouldn't be apparent to people elsewhere.

 

And while he might be comfortable in his suburb, he can't compete financially with many of the men in NYC, certainly not for the type of women he prefers. Not to mention, he's not bringing any of the intangibles that women find attractive, based on his posting history.

 

So, yes. If he's trying to punch above weight in the looks department, he's going to make serious compromises elsewhere...as he's experiencing.

 

Or he can rethink how he picks dates and make different choices.

 

Whining that women ought to pay half won't improve his results. As we can see, some women jump to pay half. But those aren't the women he's chasing. He's after women who don't have to pay half, and won't.

[angel.eyes]

While I agree with this, I would pose a question: How does he choose better? I posed a similar question in the past and the consensus was that it was not possible to prescreen for this mindset. The only solution was trial and error.

 

He's can start by being honest about what he wants. When he invites them out on a date, state that they'll split the bill.

[jay1983]

I guess you can't blame women for sitting in the pedestal when someone pulls and offers the chair. And you can't blame men for moving on after sex or not committing when the women aren't worth it.

[angel.eyes]

Goes back to the quality of the people the OP can get to date him, doesn't it?

[coolheadal]

So women should pay also, interesting but I wasn't raised like that unless I was broke then it's okay to me. I rather pay for meal. I had taken out a woman on my team yesterday from work, yep I had asked her to go with me. A few days she call me on cell. Prior to that we didn't get alone at work with her. Funny we did one day after a month or two! It was a lot different than someone off the internet. She had turned out to be fun, she was almost like me in a way! LOL. Anyway I had paid the bill, got her meal free, because service was awful the wait along and the manager was simple head. Date was fun she had a blast with me. I text to say I had a good time. She had replied back she had a good time, laughed at my sense of humor etc... But in all I think we should pay the bill as men, plus I get 10% off on meals. Next time Tokyo buffet LOL!

Edited July 19, 2017 by coolheadal

[Shining One]

As we can see, some women jump to pay half. But those aren't the women he's chasing. He's after women who don't have to pay half, and won't.

Again, I would ask how does one differentiate between these women before asking them out? When he sees women out in public, how does he determine which ones believe in reciprocation and which ones do not? When on OLD, what does he look for in profiles?

He's can start by being honest about what he wants. When he invites them out on a date, state that they'll split the bill.

In my experience, this level of bluntness does not sit well with women, even those who believe in equality. It would be just as ineffective as saying "thin women only" on an OLD profile... Even thin women would be turned off. My girlfriend, who paid for every alternating early date, says she would have been turned off if I had told her this before our first date.

[Shining One]

My experience with old fashioned ladies is that yes, they will likely expect you to pay for a date, but they will pay you back in other ways. The girl I am dating now, while I definitely pay for everything, she is always doing me little favors that make me never think about worrying about buying dinner. She has looked after my dog a couple times, she straightened up my house for me the other day, stuff like that. Sure, I buy her dinner or breakfast often, but she's a big help. I even got her a small gift last week to show appreciation, on top of paying for dinner.

You've certainly been more fortunate than me in this respect. None of the self-proclaimed old-fashioned women I dated have reciprocated in this fashion... if they reciprocated at all.

[littleblackheart]

In my experience, this level of bluntness does not sit well with women, even those who believe in equality. It would be just as ineffective as saying "thin women only" on an OLD profile... Even thin women would be turned off. My girlfriend, who paid for every alternating early date, says she would have been turned off if I had told her this before our first date.

 

It's not being blunt than to clearly spell out your expectations instead of offering the illusion that you are a provider type by paying all the time even when you don't want to as some sort of test, or a social butterfly type by going out often when you're more of a homebody, or accepting of different body types when all you want is a thin woman.

 

You may ruffle a few feathers but at least you're more likely to find someone you are actually compatible with.

 

If you don't want to say anything outright, the end of the second date at the very latest is plenty enough to figure things out if you are observant enough.

[salparadise]

No, I'm in the suburbs of NYC and have been fishing in that liberal pool. Liberal doesn't seem to translate i to paying their share.

 

It should. It's hypocritical for a woman to present as liberal, progressive, egalitarian, but then have this convenient gap in awareness/practice where she gets to take advantage of that antiquated system of female privilege and entitlement.

 

I always offer to pay my share. It's only fair afterall. Not many guys accept though so I'll just say the next one's on me. I feel bad if I don't. A lot of guys will say he's paying because he was the one who asked me out. Still don't think it's right for me to freeload though which is normally what it feels like to me.

 

Thank you Cora! This is exactly how evolved women think. You have a fully developed sense of fairness (instead of entitlement), and do the right thing because it's congruent with your values, and the right thing to do. This is Level 3, Post Conventional behavior based on Universal Ethical Principles... and absence of those convenient gaps.

 

I will offer a suggestion though... when you offer to split and the guy tries to wave you off, persist based on principle. It doesn't have to be an awkward moment. Just say, "Thank you, but I prefer that we split this."

 

He's can start by being honest about what he wants. When he invites them out on a date, state that they'll split the bill.

 

Angel-eyes, I know you're trying to be practicable, but it would be unimaginably awkward, even crass, to bring this up as a condition before meeting. Social conventions are a sticky wicket, and in dating one is always judging and being judged on how gracefully one maneuvers such delicate situations.

 

This is pretty much the crux of the issue here. Too many women these days feel entitled to a man's money, and if any man dares to speak up, he is just a cheapskate to be avoided. If you don't want to spend your money on them, the next guy will. If you are a woman, this is a nice system. I can't say I blame them for clinging to it. Men gotta stop acting like a goon, paying for ladies who don't offer anything in return.

 

Oh, I definitely do. It's about principled behavior, congruity. The female entitlement mentality originates with the evolutionary reality that eggs are valuable and sperm is not, and sex (or even being granted the pleasure of female company) is transactional. Monkeys trade food for sex in a literal quid pro quo fashion, and you can even teach monkeys the concept of currency, and they will use it to buy sex. That's how base the concept of the male always pays actually is. It's just one degree removed from prostitution based on the removal of direct quid pro quo –– that is, the male pays for the intimation that he may receive sex rather than a direct promise, the timing isn't immediate, payment is made indirectly rather in currency.

 

Evolved women reject this old paradigm based on a preference for autonomy, equality and the understated realization that she is not selling access to her lady parts, or any other parts. The understanding is that we now consider men and women equal in every way, we are here because of mutual interest to see if there is a basis for pursuing a relationship... a relationship wherein the woman is inherently valuable for her whole self, not merely a reproductive opportunity, and the man is likewise valued for his whole self, not just his willingness/ability to deliver tangible resources in exchange for access to vagina.

 

What it actually is, is humans evolving beyond the old biological paradigm of transactional sex, instead embracing full reciprocity and cooperation. One whole, valuable person relating on an equal basis to another, with both acknowledging the understanding by not making it transactional. The first opportunity to express this is in not assuming that she's selling and he's buying when the check comes on the first date.

Edited July 19, 2017 by salparadise

[SevenCity]

Haha, this was me in the beginning stages of dating my boyfriend (except I did spend a lot on him). I'd always pay my half of the bill if I didn't pick it up completely, pay for our drinks, or pick him up some food. He rarely paid for the both of us, always asking for my half. One night I just snapped. I had given him like $20 in cash for something that required cash earlier, and bought him breakfast and lunch later. When we went out to dinner and I got soup that was only about $7 and he asked for my half when he went to go pay I realized I couldn't do it anymore.

 

We talked and I let him know that an important part of being in a relationship for me was taking care of my partner AND my partner taking care of me. It took a few more talks, but he eventually got it. He's always first to go pay for our meals now, but more often than not, I'll take care of it. It just feels good to have him pay for me sometimes.

 

The other week we were casually talking about it over dinner, and he said where he's from (New York) woman are very independent and always just pay their half. I told him that for me growing up, we (meaning friends and/or boyfriend/girlfriends) always took care of each other. So perhaps it might be a poor thing. Growing up poor, we were always looking out for each other. If a friend didn't have money for food, another happily paid for them or shared, because we know they'd get us back somehow in the future. It's just everyone looking out for the other, and it would all equal out somehow. When I tried this approach with my boyfriend it was just me putting in and putting in and never getting anything back, which is why it became upsetting to me.

 

That's great you helped out but also put your foot down. You can see my frustration as you experienced it. It's never fun to be always the one to pay.

 

Not sure where in NY your boyfriend is from but that has not been common at all since I've been dating for the past year.

[Gaeta]

So in a matter of a few posts, I have managed to gather that you are looking for a 50/50 financial relationship with a thin woman who lives in or around NYC and is happy to establish sexual compatibility at the earliest opportunity - that's not an impossible task, but you seem to have a lot of very specific requirements!

 

It is impossible if he has a preference for Asian women. They have a very particular mentality and even more if they were not born here. For them (and their family) being successful is being married into money and having a man pay for pretty much everything. I have a few Chinese women as friends and each time I speak about going away with my bf or eating out they will always ask 'he paid'? as if 1,5 year into dating he needs to pay 100% of everything. Every man they speak about they have to mention his earning and pedigree. They are not bad people for that, I love them to bits it's just how they were brought up.

 

OP can you confirm as I read somewhere on here that you are dating Asian women?

 

When you have a preference for a certain culture you have to accept it comes with the territory.

[SevenCity]

OP, you are clearly looking for women who are in the minority in your specific area. I faced that same problem myself. The solution: Multi-dating and catching/releasing. Date lots of women and allow them an opportunity to demonstrate their willingness to be contributing partners. If they do not, drop them and keep searching. Three years ago, I found a beautiful woman who paid for our second, fourth, and every other alternating date until we became exclusive. It took a lot of time, but I enjoyed the search and I'm happy with the results.

 

Remember, women are not the prize. A mutually fulfilling and beneficial relationship is the prize. You are both working towards that prize.

 

 

Completely agree. My issue is I'm really getting sick of the time investment and lately just want to give up and focus on my stuff.

[SevenCity]

It is a bait and switch.

At the start you pay for everything and take her out, but once dating you start counting the pennies and want to stay home to eat... Your main priority changes to paying off your house...

YOU present yourself originally as someone you are not, so no wonder they get upset.

 

YOU also said on a previous thread that your preference is for Asian women and in some Asian cultures then women can expect men to pay full stop, so this may be more about culture than entitlement.

 

Counting pennies? That's a little dramatic, no? Lol.

 

And I'm not presenting as someone I am not. Im a generous person but my generosity runs out when it is not reciprocated or taken for granted.

[SwordofFlame]

It is a bait and switch.

At the start you pay for everything and take her out, but once dating you start counting the pennies and want to stay home to eat... Your main priority changes to paying off your house...

YOU present yourself originally as someone you are not, so no wonder they get upset.

 

YOU also said on a previous thread that your preference is for Asian women and in some Asian cultures then women can expect men to pay full stop, so this may be more about culture than entitlement.

 

Hmm so the man is supposed to keep up with doing whatever he was doing to "win her over" in the beginning, while the woman only needs to reciprocate if and after she's been won over? No wonder men that chase or pursue overly hard in the beginning aren't sustainable.

[SevenCity]

It is impossible if he has a preference for Asian women. They have a very particular mentality and even more if they were not born here. For them (and their family) being successful is being married into money and having a man pay for pretty much everything. I have a few Chinese women as friends and each time I speak about going away with my bf or eating out they will always ask 'he paid'? as if 1,5 year into dating he needs to pay 100% of everything. Every man they speak about they have to mention his earning and pedigree. They are not bad people for that, I love them to bits it's just how they were brought up.

 

OP can you confirm as I read somewhere on here that you are dating Asian women?

 

When you have a preference for a certaiYou n culture you have to accept it comes with the territory.

 

Wow gatea that's a blanket racist statement, no? You have one Chinese friend and you now are an expert on Asian culture and can predict how all of them act?

 

Yes, I do prefer Asian women. But there are many differences not only between individuals but between Chinese, Korean, Thai, Japanese, etc.

 

And to negate the theory, this behavior is not limited to Asian women. I've dated different nationalities and had similar results.

 

More importantly, I prefer those with an amiericns culture background. Both my ex and my ex wife would be offended by your statement as they were the most generous women I've ever met.

[SevenCity]

OP,

stop dating brokeass 40yr old's who date sugar daddy's in their 50's.

yes, 50's.

I can't imagine a dude in his 40's with cash wasting it on a woman over 35.

 

I know I wouldn't.

And lol at op being cheap.

just LOL!

 

Also LOL at women in their 40's who want to be wined and dined by guys their own age.

Women in their 40's are lucky a guy their age in shape will even date them when he can get younger easily.

 

Lol! Right on brother!!!