The new, consolidated, Paying for Dates thread

[Gaeta]

Wow gatea that's a blanket racist statement, no? You have one Chinese friend and you now are an expert on Asian culture and can predict how all of them act?

 

Yes, I do prefer Asian women. But there are many differences not only between individuals but between Chinese, Korean, Thai, Japanese, etc.

 

And to negate the theory, this behavior is not limited to Asian women. I've dated different nationalities and had similar results.

 

More importantly, I prefer those with an amiericns culture background. Both my ex and my ex wife would be offended by your statement as they were the most generous women I've ever met.

 

Relax we are just talking.

 

I am a white woman dating a black man I don't have one racist bone inside me but cultural differences do exist and it does not make us 'racist' for recognizing them.

 

I have been friends with my Asian friends for 15+ years so it's based on my personal observations and HOURS of conversations with THEM. Actually there is one standing next to me right now and she is the one who explained to me 10s of times how is dating in the Asian world.

[CptInsano]

Wow gatea that's a blanket racist statement, no? You have one Chinese friend and you now are an expert on Asian culture and can predict how all of them act?[...]

 

Sorry, but I'm with Gaeta in this one. Who pays for a date depends strongly on the cultural background. Europe is different than the US, and the US is yet different than Latin America. I really haven't dated any women with an Asian background, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was different again.

 

Keep in mind we're not talking about a single person in particular, but attitudes toward dating in general.

[knabe]

While I despise men who keep a mental ledger, and I do not understand men who hate women wanting to date them, I do understand your frustration, OP.

 

We live in an age of two income households and both genders having the opportunity to have successful careers. It's only natural that this should translate to BOTH people in a relationship sharing the financial burden.

 

When I was dating, I always offered sincerely to pay for the second date, help defray the cost of a date (ex. if he bought movie tickets I got the snacks/drinks), etc. A woman to whom this does not occur after several dates would seem to be...selfish?

 

When you date a quality woman who wishes to be an equal partner, this is a non-issue, IMO. Because that kind of woman WON'T just sit back and expect to be taken care of every time.

[SevenCity]

While I despise men who keep a mental ledger, and I do not understand men who hate women wanting to date them, I do understand your frustration, OP.

 

We live in an age of two income households and both genders having the opportunity to have successful careers. It's only natural that this should translate to BOTH people in a relationship sharing the financial burden.

 

When I was dating, I always offered sincerely to pay for the second date, help defray the cost of a date (ex. if he bought movie tickets I got the snacks/drinks), etc. A woman to whom this does not occur after several dates would seem to be...selfish?

 

When you date a quality woman who wishes to be an equal partner, this is a non-issue, IMO. Because that kind of woman WON'T just sit back and expect to be taken care of every time.

 

Exactly. The female mentality that they are a prize to be won is in direct conflict with the desire to be equal.

 

As Sal said in his post, you can't fish from both ends of the pool at once.

 

If a woman expects to be treated as an equal in a RL, they have to act in such a way.

 

In the event a woman stops working to raise kids then that is a discussion the husband and wife can have. Her contribution would be the raising of the kids and his would be the income. I have no issue with that.

 

But as stated, if you take take take and don't give back you are a selfish person.

 

Angel eyes has me labeled as a cheap loser who is shooting higher in looks than I am capable of getting. That's her prerogative. If you've read this post that's not what it is about.

 

Think if you had a friend who you went out with and always expected you to pay. How long would you put up with that? At what point do you feel they are taking advantage?

 

From some of the few posts here it would seem there are women who believe in contributing. I guess it's a matter of finding one.

[Bastile]

Wow gatea that's a blanket racist statement, no? You have one Chinese friend and you now are an expert on Asian culture and can predict how all of them act?

 

Yes, I do prefer Asian women. But there are many differences not only between individuals but between Chinese, Korean, Thai, Japanese, etc.

 

And to negate the theory, this behavior is not limited to Asian women. I've dated different nationalities and had similar results.

 

More importantly, I prefer those with an amiericns culture background. Both my ex and my ex wife would be offended by your statement as they were the most generous women I've ever met.

 

Want to know the toughest nationality that I've found to "pick up"?... Filipino by a long way.

 

You say what you want, but my experience has been that those women expect a lot more provisioning than any English girl.

[knabe]

I'll admit when I was younger (teens/college/early 20's) I probably would have come off as selfish because it didn't occur to me. I'm old, so this was the 80's, and I guess it was more "tradition" than anything else that kept men paying. Looking back, I do kind of feeling bad about that. It wasn't conscious, and I did cook and do thoughtful things and such. But it didn't occur to me to reach for the check when someone asked me on a date. Like I said, I guess it was just the time period.

 

Now I am almost the other extreme. I forgot some things for me at the grocery store, and my fiance got them. I tried to pay him back because he spent his money on my stuff. He just laughed at me (so I hid it in his wallet lol), but I was trying to be fair.

[SevenCity]

Want to know the toughest nationality that I've found to "pick up"?... Filipino by a long way.

 

You say what you want, but my experience has been that those women expect a lot more provisioning than any English girl.

 

My ex wife was fillipena! Completely the opposite for her.

[SevenCity]

I'll admit when I was younger (teens/college/early 20's) I probably would have come off as selfish because it didn't occur to me. I'm old, so this was the 80's, and I guess it was more "tradition" than anything else that kept men paying. Looking back, I do kind of feeling bad about that. It wasn't conscious, and I did cook and do thoughtful things and such. But it didn't occur to me to reach for the check when someone asked me on a date. Like I said, I guess it was just the time period.

 

Now I am almost the other extreme. I forgot some things for me at the grocery store, and my fiance got them. I tried to pay him back because he spent his money on my stuff. He just laughed at me (so I hid it in his wallet lol), but I was trying to be fair.

 

He's a lucky guy.

[elaine567]

From some of the few posts here it would seem there are women who believe in contributing. I guess it's a matter of finding one.

 

Yes there are, but women with room-mates who are no doubt on low incomes are not going to be in any hurry to put their hands in their pockets "equally" when they have a man who is earning well above them and a man whose aim is to be mortgage free.

 

If you want equality then you have to start dating women whose earning capacity is equal to your own, else it is grossly unfair to expect "poor" women to match your input dollar for dollar.

 

No doubt these poorer women are looking for a man to "save" them, not for some richer guy to want them to spend their hard earned dollars on him.

[littleblackheart]

Counting pennies? That's a little dramatic, no? Lol.

 

And I'm not presenting as someone I am not. Im a generous person but my generosity runs out when it is not reciprocated or taken for granted.

 

FWIW, I didn't get the impression that you were tight or ungenerous, but I don't think waiting for the woman to offer her share beyond 2 dates without saying anything is fair.

 

You say you are in your 40s looking to date women in a similar age-range: at this age, people have enough life experience to know when the gig's up. A self-sufficient woman who intends on paying her fair share will make her intentions clear from the off.

 

But be aware that she may be expecting equal participation in all areas of the relationship, not just the financial.

[SevenCity]

Yes there are, but women with room-mates who are no doubt on low incomes are not going to be in any hurry to put their hands in their pockets "equally" when they have a man who is earning well above them and a man whose aim is to be mortgage free.

 

If you want equality then you have to start dating women whose earning capacity is equal to your own, else it is grossly unfair to expect "poor" women to match your input dollar for dollar.

 

No doubt these poorer women are looking for a man to "save" them, not for some richer guy to want them to spend their hard earned dollars on him.

 

I should be clear that I've dated women who make similar or more and it was the same. The ones referenced in my op were the more recent experiences.

 

And grossly unfair to me is people expecting to do things they could not afford on their own.

 

None of these women were poor, they just chose to spend their money elsewhere and some had more of it to spend due to their reduced expenses (renting, no car, etc).

 

Even people without money can be generous.

[JuneL]

Relax we are just talking.

 

I am a white woman dating a black man I don't have one racist bone inside me but cultural differences do exist and it does not make us 'racist' for recognizing them.

 

I have been friends with my Asian friends for 15+ years so it's based on my personal observations and HOURS of conversations with THEM. Actually there is one standing next to me right now and she is the one who explained to me 10s of times how is dating in the Asian world.

 

If you don't mind me asking: Are these Asian friends of yours educated professionals? I personally know lots of East Asian (Japanese, Korean, Hong Kong) female educated professionals, and absolutely none has this mentality. In fact, coincidentally, more if not most of these female friends are pulling more weight in their marriages financially, simply because they're earning more compared to what their husbands are making.

[JuneL]

OP: My guess is that you're picking very "high maintenance" women. Being high maintenance has nothing to do with their looks or shape per se. I personally know some naturally very beautiful women who are very fit and slim and take care of themselves, but what sets them apart from those "high maintenance" women is that they don't have this hangup about their looks and they don't care excessively about their looks and they don't make a big deal when guys compliment on their looks or hit on them: they understand that looks are just looks, and that any woman who is willing to put effort into taking care of herself can look attractive and get lots of attention. As the saying goes, there are no ugly women, but only lazy women.

[JuneL]

OP: Why would you keep dating these women if they didn't even bother to reach their wallets on the first date?

[JuneL]

I also wanted to add that, as I get older and date proportionately older guys, there seems to be be more expectations from the guys that they are covering more of the dating expenses, due to the fact that their careers are more established and paying for dates becomes less of a financial burden for them.

[Miss Spider]

I'm half East Asian and I agree with June. My mom made most of the money in our household until my parents retired.. When she was dating my dad, it was 50/50.

 

I have family too you are 1st, 2nd, 3rd gen Korean Americans and they do not fall under that stereotype. I can't speak about other Asian cultures.

 

I try to pay my way on first dates every time. Only 1 time I did not so I ended up buying on 2nd. Don't do lavish first dates and if you find a persons conventions of dating too disagreeable or they aren't worth the expense don't date them again.

[SevenCity]

OP: My guess is that you're picking very "high maintenance" women. Being high maintenance has nothing to do with their looks or shape per se. I personally know some naturally very beautiful women who are very fit and slim and take care of themselves, but what sets them apart from those "high maintenance" women is that they don't have this hangup about their looks and they don't care excessively about their looks and they don't make a big deal when guys compliment on their looks or hit on them: they understand that looks are just looks, and that any woman who is willing to put effort into taking care of herself can look attractive and get lots of attention. As the saying goes, there are no ugly women, but only lazy women.

 

All my dating is based off OLD as I don't meet women I want to date IRL. I can filter on obviously high maintenance women, but it's typically not listed in their profile as a character trait. They don't see expectations and entitlement as high maintenance.

 

As far as why I continue with dating, I would have had like 3 or 4 second dates if I cut them off if they didn't reach for the check. Also, I find it normal if they want to be paid for when dating. It's when the RL turns serious and there is no reciprocity when I begin to have an issue.

[SevenCity]

I also wanted to add that, as I get older and date proportionately older guys, there seems to be be more expectations from the guys that they are covering more of the dating expenses, due to the fact that their careers are more established and paying for dates becomes less of a financial burden for them.

 

Is your career not more established as well?

 

Your post is the exact definition of entitlement I describe in my op.

[JuneL]

Is your career not more established as well?

 

Your post is the exact definition of entitlement I describe in my op.

 

You have misunderstood me. I meant the expectations coming from the guys. I felt very bad when I was first dating my current boyfriend, as he insisted on paying for me. Then I realized it's petty to fight with him, as I can contribute in other aspects (cooking him meals, making him small gifts. etc.).

[Gaeta]

If you don't mind me asking: Are these Asian friends of yours educated professionals? I personally know lots of East Asian (Japanese, Korean, Hong Kong) female educated professionals, and absolutely none has this mentality. In fact, coincidentally, more if not most of these female friends are pulling more weight in their marriages financially, simply because they're earning more compared to what their husbands are making.

 

All of them are University graduates and work as professionals. They are all Chinese and + 40 years old.

 

Now they are married and all of them providing their revenue to the family expenses. They are generous women with their husband, family and friends and I cherish their friendship a great deal. The point still remains that the dating phase is different than being in an established relationship with them.

 

I am strictly speaking dating scene here.

[JuneL]

All my dating is based off OLD as I don't meet women I want to date IRL. I can filter on obviously high maintenance women, but it's typically not listed in their profile as a character trait. They don't see expectations and entitlement as high maintenance.

 

As far as why I continue with dating, I would have had like 3 or 4 second dates if I cut them off if they didn't reach for the check. Also, I find it normal if they want to be paid for when dating. It's when the RL turns serious and there is no reciprocity when I begin to have an issue.

 

Trust me on this, it's really easy to filter out maintenance people (men or women) after just the first meet. Even if it's the convention for the guy to pay on the first date, the woman should still offer. If she doesn't even bother to reach for her wallet, that's your sign.

[Gaeta]

Trust me on this, it's really easy to filter out maintenance people (men or women) after just the first meet. Even if it's the convention for the guy to pay on the first date, the woman should still offer. If she doesn't even bother to reach for her wallet, that's your sign.

 

I would like to make a small comment to this.

 

Most women will not offer to pay on a first date. It has nothing to do with being high maintenance it's just common courtesy. Men know if a woman insist on paying on their first date it's because she is not interested in seeing him again and feels bad letting him take care of the whole bill. A woman that is not high maintenance and is interested will make the 3rd date invitation and will pay for it.

 

I make 6 times more than my bf and I let him pay our 1st and 2nd date, then from there I shared the cost or I picked the entire bill. I have never let him pay the entire bill since our 3rd date.

[JuneL]

I would like to make a small comment to this.

 

Most women will not offer to pay on a first date. It has nothing to do with being high maintenance it's just common courtesy. Men know if a woman insist on paying on their first date it's because she is not interested in seeing him again and feels bad letting him take care of the whole bill. A woman that is not high maintenance and is interested will make the 3rd date invitation and will pay for it.

 

I make 6 times more than my bf and I let him pay our 1st and 2nd date, then from there I shared the cost or I picked the entire bill. I have never let him pay the entire bill since our 3rd date.

 

Well I'm sure you've shown other gestures to appreciate his generosity.

[carhill]

General question perhaps discussed prior in this long thread: Does paying for a date have any relevance to who requested the date?

 

I ask because I generally feel whenever I ask a lady on a date, or even invite a friend to a social occasion or experience where a cost is involved, I have a financial obligation to that invitation. Is that an outdated social convention?

 

If not, if a lady asks a man on a date, should she feel obliged to pay for it? Why or why not. I have no examples to offer because I've never had the experience but presume some folks have, either inviting men out on dates or a man being invited on dates.

[JuneL]

I would like to make a small comment to this.

 

Most women will not offer to pay on a first date. It has nothing to do with being high maintenance it's just common courtesy. Men know if a woman insist on paying on their first date it's because she is not interested in seeing him again and feels bad letting him take care of the whole bill. A woman that is not high maintenance and is interested will make the 3rd date invitation and will pay for it.

 

I make 6 times more than my bf and I let him pay our 1st and 2nd date, then from there I shared the cost or I picked the entire bill. I have never let him pay the entire bill since our 3rd date.

 

I personally would offer no matter what. But if it's someone I'm not interested in seeing again, then I would insist.