My dreams

[kenmore]

LH, please let loose here (if there's more, lord help you!) I understand what you're saying. I find it so damned ironic that your husband disliked you going to work and the degradation of your marriage began when you did, which is the polar opposite of our marriage. While you and I are polar opposites sex-wise and it is understandable in that regard, I tend to think it's more just basic unhappiness that causes so much of this trouble.

 

In our case I was working, just not at the job she wanted me to be at, so she paid me to quit. Not long after, she broke up with me because I was not working.

 

While I understand her feelings, I didn't want to be at that job either, -.

 

I won't say how i feel, because it's BS. She's right, I am changing, and my new life will just be with someone else.

 

The Fathers day stuff is a bunch of crap! I'm so sorry, what a nose rub!

 

Don't go crazy LH, just keep unloading and laughing...but not too much, because then people will really think you ARE crazy! There's a fine line!

 

XO Ken

[kenmore]

Nope. I know it's not about me or our relationship, and I know that he had a life before I came around, and I don't transmute an important and significant part of his life into some sort of imaginary invalidation of me. I've made it safe for him to tell me about that stuff, and he's still healing from it, so it's pretty much my responsibility.

 

Getting a new GF doesn't wipe the slate clean of the old GF. I imagine there's 90 year olds out there who still hurt over some sh*tty thing happening with an ex 70 years ago and still loving their wives in the present. Those types of experiences define our identities, so thinking they'll just go away is like thinking a part of you will just go away.

 

Good attitude Jen!!!

 

I can't imagine any woman I have known thinking that. You rock for saying that!

 

Ken

[kenmore]

Ken ofcourse your SD loves you, she texted "I love you too" right? Teenagers know EVERYTHING, especially all about good manners, respect and relationships too - just ask them! Lol.

What I'm trying to say is that a teenager won't hold back telling anyone where to go if they think it fits the bill. And it does for them ALOT.

 

All family members feel like the teenager they love is "too busy" or doesn't care about them anymore. I remember my grandmother saying exactly that to me when I was a teen. I couldn't believe it. She was possibly the most important positive influence in my life. I just wasn't sure how much more I could ride my bike around to her house between high school (I struggled for good grades), working P/T and F/T during school holidays to pay for my education and my bike! Plus netball and dancing lessons almost every day. She only said it once and I burst into tears! I told her how deeply I loved her, how she was the mother I wished I'd had and my crazy school and work week. She "got it" in 1 conversation. I still remember her standing at her kitchen bench during that conversation making my favourite Asian soup! Gosh that woman must've loved me just so much. I'd been born in Asia and couldn't stomach Western food very well. She learnt how to cook Asian food for me. RIP my darling Nana. Ok so I'm processing that too now.

 

Work + courage = love.

 

We have to do the work to show OP how much we love them and the courage to do so and bring things up that are uncomfortable to us. 'The Road Less Travelled' has all this in it.

 

Stephen Covey, who I know I rave about, calls it "putting deposits into people's emotional bank account".

My teenage daughter loved it (not necessarily loved me or appreciated me more) when I gave her money to shop with her friends. She didn't WANT me to go with her. Now that she's a mother herself, she realizes what major sacrifices I made to give her that money. My 3 younger children had cloth nappies so I could save the $ for my teenage D. She's a mother now herself (22yo) and breastfeeds one baby. I breastfed twins till 3yo and 3 babies for 6 months. I couldn't have afforded formula even if I wanted to bottle feed.

 

My point is that if you find what IS a deposit to OP (and it may be VERY different to what WE thought). Then DO that.

 

They do all grow up and love us even more for our efforts.

 

Lion Heart.

 

Thanks LH! I hadn't seen this last night. I believe you are right, I really do believe she still loves me and misses me as I do her.

 

I had heard the love bank philosophy before. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to hold true regarding our spouses. It's another of those things that is true sometimes and it's a nice way to think of it, but my account was robbed!

 

I had thought about texting my SD today, but didn't. It is still too soon. I just saw her two weeks ago. I don't want to wear out the welcome, but I want to remain in touch. I think I will next week.

 

I do appreciate your kind words very much, you give me heart!

 

Ken

[Lion Heart]

LH, please let loose here (if there's more, lord help you!) I understand what you're saying. I find it so damned ironic that your husband disliked you going to work and the degradation of your marriage began when you did, which is the polar opposite of our marriage. While you and I are polar opposites sex-wise and it is understandable in that regard, I tend to think it's more just basic unhappiness that causes so much of this trouble.

 

In our case I was working, just not at the job she wanted me to be at, so she paid me to quit. Not long after, she broke up with me because I was not working.

 

While I understand her feelings, I didn't want to be at that job either, -.

 

I won't say how i feel, because it's BS. She's right, I am changing, and my new life will just be with someone else.

 

The Fathers day stuff is a bunch of crap! I'm so sorry, what a nose rub!

 

Don't go crazy LH, just keep unloading and laughing...but not too much, because then people will really think you ARE crazy! There's a fine line!

 

XO Ken

 

Hi Ken

 

Thanks for your kind and understanding words. I think we all have the desperate need to be "heard" and when we are "understood" too? It can certainly bring tears to my eyes, it always makes A person feel validated.

 

I'm not sure in your exW case but certainly in my WHs case his FOO issues have not even had their surfaces scratched. I've had a long time to reflect on mine (no way saying I've conquered them lol) but WH has only had these presented this year. The very first IC session after his A, he spent the whole hour talking about his life till 7yo and didnt nearly cover it all. Like wtf? I'm gonna be 170yo before he gets to the A let alone the M! Lol.

 

Now his family have fully blamed me for his A and discounted even their son taking 100% responsibility, they also blame me for his lack of direction saying I put too much pressure on him. Wtf again? I gave him children he so desperately wanted, $250k+ of my $ when he had only debts when I met him. I supported his 5 changes of career in 15y - FULLY. Put up with oh so much. They probably blame me for his NPD and other disorders. Actually they do. They fail to remember they raised him. Not my sh**.

 

I just didn't give up on my H or the M and my beautiful family no matter what. Well I've definitely thought I needed my head read to stay after his A! Who wouldn't. An A is just never the answer to anything.

 

Oh I'm rambling again. Sorry guys! Ive been diagnosed with PTSD in the almost 5 months since D Day. Thank goodness it's not depression. WH left yesterday so my mind is a jumbled mess right now. Child leaving for camp tomorrow. Major issues going off at work (while I wasn't there) that I'll have to sort out this week!!! Bottom storey of our house flooded again and no use doing anything there till the rain stops. I've done all I can. After the cyclone last week, we've had a persistent low grade storm since. It's a cyclone but cold! Twins still had to play soccer in the storm yesterday and one is injured. See everyone's crazy and I just have to "fit in" lol. There were only 3 fields open out of over 100 and ours was! Yes! Lord help me. My D just asked for help this afternoon because the baby's sick and her H will be at work.

 

I need to meditate but the floors are muddy and they need cleaning and my Ds 20foot long hair (yes I AM exaggerating there) needs washing b4 camp and my WH is more concerned about his precious "stuff" than us! Grrrrrr. He's coming to get whatever he wants today, at HIS leisure after a full night's sleep in a dry house and a sleep in and 3 course breakfast made FOR him. He would love me to beg for help. I might just lock the house, bag his stuff in waterproof bags because I'm so kind and let him get it from the garage while we help D with her sick baby. Deep breath out.

 

So I'll take 10m for me then write my list.

 

Lion Heart.

[kenmore]

Hi LH,

 

Wow, you said so much about our lives, it was almost as if you were talking about us!

 

His family will always stick with him. Even when they know they are completely wrong and so is he. To do otherwise would be too close to admitting they have faults! Lord knows they can't! they are perfect! No matter what you do LH, don't expect any compassion from that direction.

 

Now I don't know what FOO issues are, but I love it in egg form. I made it for W last year because she was craving it...but of course it meant nothing.

 

Don't apologize for rambling. I never gave up on us either. I suppose I need to soon since we haven't spoken for over two weeks, and even then it was all bad, my things are all moved out and we have no reason to speak to each other at all anymore, and we're not. All good reasons to give up. now if I could just let my brain know!

 

I have heard about the flooding there! So sorry, it is so horrible! I hope you do not suffer much more damage. At least you are not thinking of putting his things in the flooded bottom story...then again...aren't garages usually on the bottom? LOL

 

What kind of camp is your child going to? I have such nice memories of camp when I was young...except for the BO of fellow campers of course. Hygiene sometimes takes a back seat there! Let's hope they spend lots of time in the water! LOL

 

Hugs!

 

Ken

[Lion Heart]

Hi LH,

 

Wow, you said so much about our lives, it was almost as if you were talking about us!

 

His family will always stick with him. Even when they know they are completely wrong and so is he. To do otherwise would be too close to admitting they have faults! Lord knows they can't! they are perfect! No matter what you do LH, don't expect any compassion from that direction.

 

Now I don't know what FOO issues are, but I love it in egg form. I made it for W last year because she was craving it...but of course it meant nothing.

 

Don't apologize for rambling. I never gave up on us either. I suppose I need to soon since we haven't spoken for over two weeks, and even then it was all bad, my things are all moved out and we have no reason to speak to each other at all anymore, and we're not. All good reasons to give up. now if I could just let my brain know!

 

I have heard about the flooding there! So sorry, it is so horrible! I hope you do not suffer much more damage. At least you are not thinking of putting his things in the flooded bottom story...then again...aren't garages usually on the bottom? LOL

 

What kind of camp is your child going to? I have such nice memories of camp when I was young...except for the BO of fellow campers of course. Hygiene sometimes takes a back seat there! Let's hope they spend lots of time in the water! LOL

 

Hugs!

 

Ken

 

Dear Ken,

 

I've "camped" in the infidelity section of this forum for most of the past 4 months since I found LS, so much so, that I bring all the incredible abbreviations with me when I travel to other sections. Lol.

FOO = Family Of Origin (issues).

 

It took me about 4 weeks to understand the posts fully!

 

I've been complete NC with WH (Wayward Husband lol) family since 5w post D Day (4 months now). I won't go into WH family issues for long but suffice to say, issues that have been rug swept for decades and generations are exploding out in my WH life now and have been ALL his life. Not to mention his siblings and now the grandchildren. The FOO issues with their lid on have been like a small pimple growing into a huge one then a massive boil! If you don't deal with it when it's little and ignore the causes of it AND the symptoms of it. It'll grow. It builds and manifests in a huge, stinking explosion! Yeah visualize that! My WH life. Never deal with anything, just ignore it gaining destructive momentum and witness the explosion after the fact.

 

As uncomfortable as the practise is to begin with, I don't allow rug sweeping here. In this way my children are very used to the practise. We've become very good at it. Raising issues then DEALING. WH never quite "caught that bus". He participated willingly about others but hasn't employed the practise for demonstrative self reflection. It seems to have been my habit for as long as I can remember. That and developing coping mechanisms and the following combination of observing OP who f*** their own lives up / what TO DO to attain a fulfilled life.

 

My 10yo D left for a school camp today. 4 days. It's about 1 hour away, so that made her feel better. She sits State / National Academic Skills Exams next week at school. Just about Everything has gone against her for these. 5 months of hellish home life. Possible dislocation from the only home she's known. 5 weeks of no school due to holidays and cyclone, school demolition almost! So their school's been closed. Flooding then father moving out. Poor little darling. Sigh.

Hence me crying about the mummy bird trying desperately to get her baby bird across the busy street last Saturday. It seems that no matter how hard I try to protect my children from very shocking experiences, I can't manage to "get them" where they need to go without facing dire consequences.

 

I can't rugsweep anything much with my children. Hence my post "Telling the children" in the infidelity section. The miracle is, and I don't expect miracles, that giving my children attentive time to ask questions openly and for me to be 100% honest, is the only way I can handle some things of the magnitude they're going through right now. Many of my answers have been, "I don't know right now".

 

It's difficult for each of us in our own ways. There are 8 people in my "immediate" family. 8 WHOLE different universes. WH just doesn't "fit in" with the family philosophy / climate of trust, love and honesty. He's tried for years but his FOO issues repel them. I realize, now I'm writing, that if he relaxed his self (which is nowhere near fully integrated because of his NPD and overblown entitlement + ) and allowed the facade down that his family has spent generations creating, then he is very likely to actually enjoy his life. His mind thinks negatively ALL the time.

Negative is his first reaction. He is a very envious person. These traits don't ALLOW a person to have a clear path in life.

 

For all my FOO issues I've had time to reflect. Since being a child I've reflected deeply on the pain people cause others. I'm still learning about that. Since my WH left my mind has allowed the actions I've done to cause him pain. My mind is TTg MY bad actions. Instead of being focussed on H / WH, I'm now able to see my role in the downs of our M. I don't feel down about that, I feel empowered about those truths. WH feels more validated now as I've talked with him about that.

 

He DOES take 100% responsibility for his A now plus other things. He has for months. He TELLS his family so and won't take their protests. It's a lack of respect on their behalf and lack of acknowledgement too. He's been asked to make dinner for 7 of his family tomorrow night. He's mentally and physically exhausted and they demand dinner! Lol. He's seeing the craziness of their "compassion" for his major grief right now. Amd it IS MAJOR grief for him. It's nowhere near the compassion he's been shown here. In fact he's seeing how similar he is to us NOW, instead of the multitudes of differences he's always dwelling on.

 

So this separation is very very positive so far. Never thought I'd say that. My psych friend K, has been recommending it since D Day. Well go stone a crow hey? (I just have to throw in silly Ozzie Sayings now and then so you can imagine my accent! LOL.).

 

Can I part for now with a quote that my son floored me with tonight? Yes? Ok.

 

"It's from Shakespeare mum.

 

'Love me or hate me, they're both in my favour.

If you love me, I'll always be in my heart.

If you hate me, I'll always be in your head. ' "

 

Paraphrased possibly! Food for thought.

 

Hugs

Lion Heart.

[Lion Heart]

^^^^ he's my 12yo son. I am definitely buying "No More Mr Nice Guy" for all my sons and daughters and me!

 

Had to pop back. Ds teacher texted an update on her after Day 1 at camp. She's had a ball today. He sent a pic of her and her friends. She's possibly fared the worst over our family turmoil and she's doing ok.

 

After 3 Counsellors telling us there's no hope for our M from Day till now. After almost 5 months I've just had to "give it all to G**". I've been bewildered, bereft and psychologically shell shocked. I felt no choice but tell him to leave. It took me a long time to face the prospect of SPg 3 more children about to hit high school. Thoughts of my future are zinging past. I have to remember where I am now. Bring myself back to now. What can I do now.

 

The twins are asleep. It's quiet and stopped raining. Is that a sign? The calm after the storm or am I actually in the eye of the tornado. I guess time will tell. For now things are calm.

 

Thanks for being there guys.

LH

[kenmore]

Hi LH, I wish to reply to this because you have put so much of you into it and I appreciate that so much, but I'm simply spent tonight. I don't know what it is about me lately (well, I understand today, I went to a party last night and had too much to drink) but my whole life lately is just not me! I need to get a grip on my depression and I'm never a depressed person! I can't keep my mind where it needs to be and I can't seem to function in my work, even though it's make-it-or-break-it time. Yesterday my laptop stopped working right and I need it for work. It's almost like God telling me give up already. I spent the day messing with it and got no-place so emotionally I just need a break!

 

But I will respond soon. Hugs to you and bless you for your strength and fortitude! XO

 

Ken

[Lion Heart]

Hi Ken

 

I hope today was a better day for you? Pity you don't live round the corner, we know this great computer guy....sigh. Hope at least THAT part of your life is sorted. How's your day been today?

 

You know, drinking? Weird but I just don't feel like it anymore.

I think I had about 10y worth in the month after D Day.

 

WH told me today that he "came clean" about 3 more points with his family last night. ie. 3 more things they were mislead by him about our M. That leaves around 20, 003 left to go lol.

 

I'm not lol-ing really. I'm in the weirdest "space" I've ever been in. Not numb. Mixed emotions. Like I'm floating. Light and weightless.

 

I've been given extra responsibilities at work and ate them up, no one expected me to cope except those above me (maybe) and I did 5 people's jobs in one day yesterday. That has totally freaked me out. Ofcourse I accepted when given the ridiculous tasks. Potential lock downs etc and I diffused them. I'm NOT trying to brag because I'm not sure how I'm operating right now.

I can't explain anything succinctly about HOW I did that. It's just weird.

 

Anyway I wanted to pop in and check how things were for you Ken.

Many blessings

Lion Heart.

[KBarletta]

Hi LH, I wish to reply to this because you have put so much of you into it and I appreciate that so much, but I'm simply spent tonight. I don't know what it is about me lately (well, I understand today, I went to a party last night and had too much to drink) but my whole life lately is just not me! I need to get a grip on my depression and I'm never a depressed person! I can't keep my mind where it needs to be and I can't seem to function in my work, even though it's make-it-or-break-it time. Yesterday my laptop stopped working right and I need it for work. It's almost like God telling me give up already. I spent the day messing with it and got no-place so emotionally I just need a break!

 

But I will respond soon. Hugs to you and bless you for your strength and fortitude! XO

 

Ken

 

Hang in there Ken. I have been there myself lately. My mind has been so scattered, I have locked my keys in my car, forgotten my wallet, missed appointments, unable to focus, all in the past week or so. I'm never like that. I think it comes with the territory when your life is changing so dramatically.

 

I would tell you to just keep moving forward. It's the only way out, so there's no other choice. Just hang in there, buddy!

[kenmore]

Thanks you two, it feels so nice to know I'm not alone. I knew that already of course, but hearing it does make a big difference. Otherwise, I tend to think everyone else is just fine and I'm the only one.

 

I went back and forth between buying Windows 8.1 or paying Microsoft personnel to fix Win 7. I was gonna go for it, but realized that I can't install office (I don't have the discs), so would be without that as well. That was too much, so I opted to pay Microsoft $100 to fix it (Lord I hate paying to just get myself back where I was last week!) I am getting my money's worth since they began this morning and here it is almost 8:30pm and they are still working on it. They may have to admit defeat soon and give me my $100 back. I pity them a little, but at least it's their problem now. Ultimately I suspect Windows is corrupted and will need to be re-installed.

 

Aside from having to mess with that all day on and off, I did get a chance to actually fit in a little work today, so YAY! I forgot what that felt like it has been so long! Also, I always wanted to use the bunny without looking too gay.

 

Enough about me, I'm trying not to visualize a huge boil exploding, but can't help it anymore, thanks! LOL

 

You are not alone with the family issues. While I was fortunate enough to actually like both of my wives families and they liked me, I do realize a lot of that was only skin deep on their parts. I truly did care for them (as much as someone can for people he sees a few times a year.) I did see my current wife's mother about two times a week as long as we were married because that's how much time my wife wanted to spend with her. It was important to her so it was important to me. I loved her like my own parent and was told I was her favorite son-in-law. I cooked gourmet meals for her and us all once a week, so you can imagine how I felt when I was told by my BIL that on the cruise from Hell, she was the one who told my wife she needs to dump me.

 

Now in all fairness, I don't know if that's true, but I had thought so a little before he even said it because I see how she operates regarding others. I tend to believe him. I can't say it was her doing since it was my wife who made the decision and must accept the responsibility, but that kind of egging on doesn't help!

 

Oops, somehow I went back to talking about me lol.

 

I'm so glad to hear your daughter is enjoying camp! It really can be fun, and lots of great horror movies are based on that experience. That can only mean one thing: It's awesome! It does build life-changing experiences. She'll probably come home with a craft she made there that you can cherish for decades!

 

Otherwise, forget about his stupid family. He is their problem now, they are not yours. Also, my suggestion is to stop thinking about his issues with his family or otherwise. He left you, you did not abandon him, so let him sleep in the bed he made!

 

You are doing very well LH, and I'm proud of you. You are moving on and taking care of those who really matter, your children. Make sure you take care of someone else who matters a great deal: yourself.

 

You don't type with much accent. In fact, you type just right, like us Americans LOL I do love to hear the Aussie expressions though, it makes me feel so worldly! Toss another Fosters on the barbie and all that!

 

KB, I forgot my wallet on two separate trips we took, and my wife always thought i did so on purpose. I didn't even have an excuse then! She thought it was my way out of paying for things. If she only knew the truth, that I wanted to pay for everything! Money never held that much sway on me. I know that's one of my failings, but I have never been thirsty for it. I want enough, so I'm sadly lacking now and to some degree that is due to my lack of thirst for it (and believe me, I'm getting pretty thirsty now!) That is an incompatibility issue with her and I. I guess I'm seeing more and more of them, and i guess our end was inevitable.

 

You hang in there too friend! Yes, it's part and parcel of the whole life changing thing but it's more than that. In our cases and so many people's here, we loved them and losing that has ripped a hole in our beings. How well do you think you would function if a giant monster ripped your spleen out? Maybe that's a tad dramatic, but it's not just confusion nor a change in life, it's a change in our entire way of seeing the world. I don't even know if I can trust in love again. I used to have an undying trust in love. I used to feel that as long as I loved my wife, she loved me and we were not dying, we would be okay. Apparently she did not love me the way I thought she did and that was so difficult to grasp because I would have sworn she did! Where do I go from here?

 

I know everyone is different and I also know things went great with my first wife until she got sick, so I know true love is possible. That gives me an advantage, but I'm still trying to come to grips with the fact that someone I thought truly loved me more than anyone or anything else was happy to get rid of me. It just doesn't compute.

 

Well, time is a healer, or I'll die or something. It's the way it is and I must get a grip. So must we all. At the rate things are going, at least it looks like my computer will die before me.

 

Ken

[Esraem]

Hey Ken,

 

I can feel for you with the MIL. Mine has tried to undermine me for years and was always hoping that this day would come. She is happier than anybody.

[KBarletta]

I don't even know if I can trust in love again. I used to have an undying trust in love. I used to feel that as long as I loved my wife, she loved me and we were not dying, we would be okay. Apparently she did not love me the way I thought she did and that was so difficult to grasp because I would have sworn she did! Where do I go from here?

 

Ken, I think that's a natural thought at this point in the process. I once would have trusted my wife no matter what. She was always my go-to thought whenever I was frustrated with my life or upset with the world, I always thought, "At least we will always have each other." Now there is emptiness.

 

So I have a hard time imagining myself trusting anyone in a relationship to that extent again. And I don't think it's fair to be in a relationship with someone if you don't trust them. So that's a tough spot. I think that trust will slowly come back. In the mean time, put your faith and your energy into the things you can control: Focus on you, on putting one foot in front of the other each day until you get where you need to be. It will come with time.

[LifeNomad]

its like that saying "if your going through hell, keep going"

 

 

were all on here doing the same thing I think, most of us at least. all hurt or hurting and trying to see the light, so your not alone buddy

[Esraem]

Man. I just had the first real vivid dream of my own last night. Talk about a kick in the gut. Unfortunately she was the first person I saw when I left the bedroom.

 

Have you been having more or how are you coping through them?

[Esraem]

Hey Ken,

 

Are you still having the dreams? I have a question for all. Did your dreams start right away or later?

 

I did not have one dream over the last month pertaining to my wife or anything. The last two nights have been hell. Last night I had an abandonment dream in which we were doing something important and she just disappeared and only came back after shopping, etc. The second I guess could be a good dream in which we were working on things and stuff was getting back to "normal".

 

I wish I knew why they just started to begin but it is really affecting me horribly.

[kenmore]

Hey Esraem, for me, the answer is I have not had that many dreams about my wife at all, the few I had were recently, and they stopped.

 

I suspect (and I'm not qualified to give serious psychological advice) that what's going on with you based upon other posts of yours that I have read is that you are entertaining hopes that your wife wants to reconcile.

 

It has worked its way into your subconscious and it comes out at night.

 

The shopping thing is interesting. As a complete non-professional in psychology, it makes me wonder if you took some offense about her shopping. Meaning, in your mind she put it higher than serious stuff?

 

No, my wife and I are so done, if we were toast we'd be burnt. There is no going back anymore no matter what, she saw to that.

 

I will say one good thing about her, she's sure! She may not be right, but she's sure. God bless her.

 

And one more good thing: She'll make a fine ex!

 

Ken