Why do people always tell lonely guys to try dating unattractive girls?

[Necris]

I always wondered about this, I mean at first glance this "advice" sounds like it would help someone who's struggling because they keep trying to date "outside their league" but in actuality...

 

I mean has anyone ever tried this advice? I have and I find there is no difference between asking out girls I'm attracted to and girls I'm not attracted to, the rejection will still happen regardless.

 

Think of it this way just because the girl isn't hot to you doesn't mean she will think you much better.

 

 

Then finally in the end if she does somehow find you attractive enough to date but you aren't attracted to her, you're just setting yourself up for a disaster later on since you aren't all that happy with the relationship to begin with. Though chances are like you she will be settling for you until something better comes along.

 

Also one thing I noticed people seem to act like the unattractive girl will have a better personality but also in real-life her personality wouldn't be much different than any other girl since the only variable changed is just looks.

 

Though for me personally attraction has to do with personality and looks put together a hot girl with an unattractive personality would be ugly to me compared to a smart cool personality girl who has average looks.

[mammasita]

IMO the rationale is more so to give the person experience to that when they do meet someone they are attracted to, they are able to approach him/her and hold a conversation instead of being awkward and shy.

 

True about the rejection, but the experience is golden....and if you're being rejected by someone you really could care less about, in theory, it won't hurt (as much)

[pteromom]

...because it is a common thing around here that guys have problems dating because their expectations regarding looks are way too high. So people give a common answer to a common scenario.

 

But that doesn't mean it is ALWAYS the case. You always have to consider whether someone's advice applies to you or not. It some cases, it won't.

 

I would never suggest asking a girl out if you aren't at all attracted to her though. I agree with you - there's no point in dating someone you aren't attracted to.

 

BUT - sometimes, trying to date someone you don't initially notice may turn to something great. Sometimes, attraction grows as you get to know someone.

 

And sometimes, just getting some "practice" going on dates and interacting with someone on that level will help you become better at it (I am not suggesting using someone for that purpose - it's just a natural consequence of dating.)

[Necris]

...because it is a common thing around here that guys have problems dating because their expectations regarding looks are way too high. So people give a common answer to a common scenario.

 

But that doesn't mean it is ALWAYS the case. You always have to consider whether someone's advice applies to you or not. It some cases, it won't.

 

I would never suggest asking a girl out if you aren't at all attracted to her though. I agree with you - there's no point in dating someone you aren't attracted to.

 

BUT - sometimes, trying to date someone you don't initially notice may turn to something great. Sometimes, attraction grows as you get to know someone.

 

And sometimes, just getting some "practice" going on dates and interacting with someone on that level will help you become better at it (I am not suggesting using someone for that purpose - it's just a natural consequence of dating.)

 

I get the whole approaching girls you normally may pass up thing, like it can be easy for guys to simply not notice some of the average looking girls in the room unless they are really outgoing, but most of the time when people say unattractive girls they are talking about the below average ones.

 

And the main issue with the whole "practice date" thing is the rejection by that I mean you are most likely never getting to the point of even getting a so-called "practice date" since you will be rejected long before that happens so it may take a hundred or so tries assuming a reasonable acceptance rate of 1%, before an unattractive girl wants to date the lonely guy and with all that time wasted to get a "practice" date, lonely guy could of asked out girls he likes for a real date.

 

So in the end I just find the whole notion illogical really.

 

EDIT: Also most of the lonely guys aren't going for the most beautiful women they can find, they are just frustrated they can't get dates with your average everyday girl and haven't had dates in years.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Necris

[Simgleandyoung23]

I've never had a problem finding a girl. I get girls going more after me. Like I attract those bold type of girls when I was a kid it used to scare me nowadays it's just sometimes a little too much for me if I was lonely I'd socialize more eventually somebody has to come along thats right for you. Whether good looking or not the right personality is the key.

[Necris]

IMO the rationale is more so to give the person experience to that when they do meet someone they are attracted to, they are able to approach him/her and hold a conversation instead of being awkward and shy.

 

True about the rejection, but the experience is golden....and if you're being rejected by someone you really could care less about, in theory, it won't hurt (as much)

 

Problem is lonely guy is going to still get rejected by the unattractive girls and it may hurt confidence even more since not only the hot girls think he's ugly but the ugly girls think he is ugly as well, confirming that yes indeed he is truly ugly.

 

Plus some people are naturally shy and awkward anyway, so it won't matter if he's talking to a girl he's attracted to or a girl he isn't, the shy awkwardness may still show itself.

 

Also with all the rejection the lonely guy is going to get he may need to try a hundred or more times before a girl agrees to go on a date but with a rejection rate like that he might as well just asked out the girls he likes.

[todreaminblue]

maybe thats why i get asked out frequently...i am a stepping stone with a good personality.....

 

 

i really dont think its a good idea to ask someone out you find unattractive...to me its not honest.....and when i date it is with a relationship in mind......

 

i think you should date people you find a connection with for whatever reason if you have a connection you build on it.....and not date people who you arent attracted too as its also a waste of time...yours and theirs..

 

 

and at the moment necris you shouldnt probably be worrying about dating anyway...deb

[Necris]

 

and at the moment necris you shouldnt probably be worrying about dating anyway...deb

 

I'm not I just wonder why people give that kind of advice out. Even my own parents lol.

 

It sets up a relationship for failure and it doesn't increase chances of ability to even find a date at the same time.

 

So I'm like what kind of insanity is this?

[BlueIris]

Why do people always tell lonely guys to try dating unattractive girls? Because the lonely guys appear to be complaining about their loneliness and seem to want a partner.

 

It’s only later that we find out that they don’t want a partner, someone to build a life with and enjoy and care for, etc. There’s no heart in their plea. They just want a woman to have sex with who looks a certain way. They decide attractiveness by people’s looks, which is not only shallow but boring and very unattractive. Who wants to spend their lifetime talking to someone who thinks like that? Who wants to spend an hour? But for some reason they are more defensive about their personalities than about their looks and will tell you until they’re blue in the face that they’re good guys with all of these great personality traits. Making them even less attractive- stubborn AND in denial about the fact that human connection is about character and personality.

 

Lots of women say things to this effect after dates: “Yeah, he was pretty cute, but then he opened his mouth….”

 

So when a lonely person asks how to not be lonely, most people don't know that they themselves are rejecting people by looks- digging their own graves.

Edited April 27, 2015 by BlueIris

[Necris]

Why do people always tell lonely guys to try dating unattractive girls? Because the lonely guys appear to be complaining about their loneliness and seem to want a partner.

 

It’s only later that we find out that they don’t want a partner, someone to build a life with and enjoy and care for, etc. There’s no heart in their plea. They just want a woman to have sex with who looks a certain way. They decide attractiveness by people’s looks, which is not only shallow but boring and very unattractive. Who wants to spend their lifetime talking to someone who thinks like that? Who wants to spend an hour? But for some reason they are more defensive about their personalities than about their looks and will tell you until they’re blue in the face that they’re good guys with all of these great personality traits. Making them even less attractive- stubborn AND in denial about the fact that human connection is about character and personality.

 

Lots of women say things to this effect after dates: “Yeah, he was pretty cute, but then he opened his mouth….”

 

So when a lonely person asks how to not be lonely, most people don't know that they themselves are rejecting people by looks- digging their own graves.

 

But what makes you think an "unattractive" woman would see an "unattractive" man as attractive? That's the main issue with this whole thing.

 

Now I could understand where you're coming from if the lonely guy is rejecting all these girls he thinks are unattractive and fawning over some other girl that he thinks is super attractive, then yeah maybe he should consider his options.

 

But most of the time the guy has 0 girls interested already, no unattractive girls want him nor the attractive girls at the same time, literally 0 options. When someone is in this situation why waste time with girls you aren't attracted to and instead go after the girls you are attracted to, you're going to get rejected regardless but at least if in the small chance someone is interested you'll also be interested at the same time.

[todreaminblue]

I'm not I just wonder why people give that kind of advice out. Even my own parents lol.

 

It sets up a relationship for failure and it doesn't increase chances of ability to even find a date at the same time.

 

So I'm like what kind of insanity is this?

 

 

 

your thinking is spot on necris..well....it is to me.....sometimes when people advise you with something dont take their words as gospel but follow your own heart.......what resonates with you ....in that way....you can not be swayed even in a convincing argument from what is true to you.......every one is different necris and what is true for others may not be applicable to you or me or someone else..if i feel truth.....i cannot be swayed by opinions if i feel it in my heart that it is right for me......take what is constructive that improves your life and the way you want to live it....discard anything that doesnt feel right to you...smilin atcha....deb

[JuneJulySeptember]

But what makes you think an "unattractive" woman would see an "unattractive" man as attractive? That's the main issue with this whole thing.

 

Now I could understand where you're coming from if the lonely guy is rejecting all these girls he thinks are unattractive and fawning over some other girl that he thinks is super attractive, then yeah maybe he should consider his options.

 

But most of the time the guy has 0 girls interested already, no unattractive girls want him nor the attractive girls at the same time, literally 0 options. When someone is in this situation why waste time with girls you aren't attracted to and instead go after the girls you are attracted to, you're going to get rejected regardless but at least if in the small chance someone is interested you'll also be interested at the same time.

 

It's a mix.

 

Some women are more shallow, some less. And while that really hot lawyer may be less shallow than the next hot lawyer, chances are she has enough dozens/hundreds of options so that you won't be one of them.

 

I really don't think most guys hit on women above their level. Guys approach and women are just picky, and that's about all there is to the game.

 

It can be kind of harrowing, yes. It's why I understand why some guys don't even bother playing.

[BlueIris]

But what makes you think an "unattractive" woman would see an "unattractive" man as attractive? That's the main issue with this whole thing.

 

Because they don’t define attractive the same way. She might be deciding by personality and connection on some level other than, "he's good looking enough."

 

My point is that so long as they decide attractiveness by looks, those lonely boys are not going to allow themselves to, or be able to, become attracted to people in any other way.

 

So by having limited criteria, they can be unattractive (in my definition of the word) to many many people. See, they are less likely to be attractive to anyone. I've seen it in posts where said men protest that they don't approach the "hottest" girls, they have low standards, they "even" approach not so pretty girls... and you shudder because they just keep reinforcing how little they care about people and how obsessed they are with looks. Anyway, just my opinion.

Edited April 27, 2015 by BlueIris

[Sarabi]

Unattractive by whose standards though..?

 

Beauty fades, dumb is forever... (and all that follows on from this...)

 

I don't know. Perhaps people are trying to get you to look beyond "pretty" on the surface and get to know someone average looking more so that you discover other things about them that would make them more beautiful/appealing in a well rounded way other than looks.

[ascendotum]

I don't think the advice is usually date unattractive women, but more a case of date less attractive women. Say you really want a slim build or a petite woman as your gf. If your struggling to get a gf for numerous years then it fairly obvious they don't find you attractive enough for them. Those women are not short on options even if they are not especially pretty facially, they still do alright. So you could expand your flirting to smaller build chubby women or an average build women or a woman with shorter hair instead of long hair. To you they might not have the same instant appeal but to plenty of other guys they are fine, and once you get to know them a bit you could see them the same way. They are not your ideal 'I wanna be with this woman for years' gf but its going to be better then staying lonely + its helps get rid of that 'no woman wants me' mindset/stigma. If you can't envisage enjoying yourself with her then do you both a favor and don't do it.

 

Think of it this way just because the girl isn't hot to you doesn't mean she will think you much better.

Absolutely true, but your chances are going to be better that she is open to you. Some girls that you liked but rejected you might not necessarily think you are ugly or would make a lousy bf, but they saw you as 'an okay guy but no fireworks' but since they have lots of options they can exploit them and find a guy that turns them on more. If they didn't have so many options (as less attractive women do) they might have gone out with you. You generally don't see lots of less attractive women with good looking bfs, and vice versa. Less attractive women/men tend to choose from their available options. Like you say she may not be happy with that, but there is greater tendency that she will be happy to be in loving relationship.

 

Though chances are like you she will be settling for you until something better comes along.

There is that distinct possibility and its fine. In such a scenario the stepping stone relationship will have served its purpose well for both you. Its wasn't meant to be a forever after relationship, but it will give you experience and hopefully a number of good memories. You can have good times with someone you are not gaga about.

 

Also one thing I noticed people seem to act like the unattractive girl will have a better personality but..

True, but I find there is a tendency for them to have nicer personalities. If you are less attractive, you can't rely on your looks to get by. Seems like lots of the struggling guys fall into the 'nice guy' bracket and seems like most of them would be really appreciative of any girl they liked that gave them a shot and will go out of their way to please her (she is not easily replaced). Same with the equivalent struggling women. The hotter you are the more red flags people will ignore and the more crap they will put up with, but its the inverse the less hotter you are. They cant afford to have a crappy personality because their looks are not going to save the day. Of course that does not mean a less attractive person, can't be boring, or have no SOH, or be a poor communicator, or be selfish and so on.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I don't think the advice is usually date unattractive women, but more a case of date less attractive women. Say you really want a slim build or a petite woman as your gf. If your struggling to get a gf for numerous years then it fairly obvious they don't find you attractive enough for them. Those women are not short on options even if they are not especially pretty facially, they still do alright. So you could expand your flirting to smaller build chubby women or an average build women or a woman with shorter hair instead of long hair. To you they might not have the same instant appeal but to plenty of other guys they are fine, and once you get to know them a bit you could see them the same way. They are not your ideal 'I wanna be with this woman for years' gf but its going to be better then staying lonely + its helps get rid of that 'no woman wants me' mindset/stigma. If you can't envisage enjoying yourself with her then do you both a favor and don't do it.

 

Think of it this way just because the girl isn't hot to you doesn't mean she will think you much better.

Absolutely true, but your chances are going to be better that she is open to you. Some girls that you liked but rejected you might not necessarily think you are ugly or would make a lousy bf, but they saw you as 'an okay guy but no fireworks' but since they have lots of options they can exploit them and find a guy that turns them on more. If they didn't have so many options (as less attractive women do) they might have gone out with you. You generally don't see lots of less attractive women with good looking bfs, and vice versa. Less attractive women/men tend to choose from their available options. Like you say she may not be happy with that, but there is greater tendency that she will be happy to be in loving relationship.

 

Though chances are like you she will be settling for you until something better comes along.

There is that distinct possibility and its fine. In such a scenario the stepping stone relationship will have served its purpose well for both you. Its wasn't meant to be a forever after relationship, but it will give you experience and hopefully a number of good memories. You can have good times with someone you are not gaga about.

 

Also one thing I noticed people seem to act like the unattractive girl will have a better personality but..

True, but I find there is a tendency for them to have nicer personalities. If you are less attractive, you can't rely on your looks to get by. Seems like lots of the struggling guys fall into the 'nice guy' bracket and seems like most of them would be really appreciative of any girl they liked that gave them a shot and will go out of their way to please her (she is not easily replaced). Same with the equivalent struggling women. The hotter you are the more red flags people will ignore and the more crap they will put up with, but its the inverse the less hotter you are. They cant afford to have a crappy personality because their looks are not going to save the day. Of course that does not mean a less attractive person, can't be boring, or have no SOH, or be a poor communicator, or be selfish and so on.

 

Agree with all of this.

 

Also don't worry about her cheating when something better comes along. That is WAY more prevalent amongst desirable people. They meet super hot people they want who want them back at a moment's notice all of the time even when they are taken and they have much more to worry about when it comes to that than people who more struggle to find attraction.

[Necris]

Unattractive by whose standards though..?

 

Beauty fades, dumb is forever... (and all that follows on from this...)

 

I don't know. Perhaps people are trying to get you to look beyond "pretty" on the surface and get to know someone average looking more so that you discover other things about them that would make them more beautiful/appealing in a well rounded way other than looks.

 

What I mean by unattractive I mean by the standards of the guy. Myself I have fairly low physical standards I can walk into a random room and most girls around my age will meet my standards.

 

For instance for me average looking is still attractive but 5'3" 270lbs just isn't attractive to me. I'm never going to approach.

 

Looks aren't everything, I care less that someone is attractive and more about their personality and intelligence. But they have to at least meet my minimum standards.

 

Now personally for me I never really had to reject any girls since I'm just not wanted in the first place lol.

[Necris]

Because they don’t define attractive the same way. She might be deciding by personality and connection on some level other than, "he's good looking enough."

 

My point is that so long as they decide attractiveness by looks, those lonely boys are not going to allow themselves to, or be able to, become attracted to people in any other way.

 

So by having limited criteria, they can be unattractive (in my definition of the word) to many many people. See, they are less likely to be attractive to anyone. I've seen it in posts where said men protest that they don't approach the "hottest" girls, they have low standards, they "even" approach not so pretty girls... and you shudder because they just keep reinforcing how little they care about people and how obsessed they are with looks. Anyway, just my opinion.

 

The chances she is going to decide her attraction on personality is the same as the attractive girl tbh. And the chances her personality is also attractive is also the same as the attractive girl.

 

Also for most people attraction is based off numerous factors, looks are a major part but other factors make up alot of it as well. I mean most guys I would hope at least wouldn't find a psychopathic woman who is physically attractive, attractive overall.

 

Now of course guys who are struggling should look into broadening out who they approach if you're consistently approaching a very narrow subset of women and are continuously being rejected perhaps its time to look elsewhere.

 

EDIT: Also approaching has always been about looks. Guy approaches a girl he doesn't know from Eve he's probably approaching because she looks good he doesn't know anything else about her. At most if they are at an event of shared interest he may know a little about her interests but that's it.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Necris

[Mrlonelyone]

OP you are right the idea that a less attractive woman will choose a mate on less appearance based grounds is false. The truth is the younger you are the more likely it is that appearance will reign supreme in choosing a mate.

 

Take a look at this article.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-therapy/201412/laws-attraction-how-do-we-select-life-partner

 

It mentions two scientific theories behind mate selection. Evolutionary "looks matter" theory and social role theory "looks aren't everything". Lets put those together.

 

 

You are a young man with little money and power all you would have to offer are looks and physical stamina.

 

When you are older you will have more resources to offer. If nothing else you will be wiser and have more social connections. So you will be able to attract a woman to that. (While better looking but foolish guys won't be a much of a factor).

 

 

My grandfather did that. He did not marry until he was in his early 40's and married a woman in her early 20's and had three kids. So... sure ask out less attractive women and build up your relationship self. They are more likely to say yes.

[ascendotum]

What I mean by unattractive I mean by the standards of the guy. Myself I have fairly low physical standards I can walk into a random room and most girls around my age will meet my standards.

 

If this is your situation then I don't know if you really need to change your perspective in regards to 'attractive'. Usually when I hear this walking into a room scenario with women who are complaining about dating, its that they only find 1 or 2 (5%) of the guys worthwhile. Its usually from women in their 30s though and when you get in your 30s I'm sure it wont be the 'most in a room' anymore. Sometimes its hard to get a feel for what people consider attractive. People will say its not like I am chasing hotties or I'm not chasing a brad pitt look a like or I'm not looking for a super model, but those comments can be spurious on them not being superficial. Yeh they are not chasing the top 5-10% but that doesn't mean they aren't exclusively only considering people in the top 20% bracket of desirability. The other thing is that most people will find their partner attractive...in their eyes when they take into account all aspects of their personality, which other people wont appreciate (still upfront attraction helps a lot to get your foot in the door)

 

If your expectations in not really a limiting factor then what it leave you with...recognizing your shortcomings and doing your best to get rid of them or offset them??

[Necris]

OP you are right the idea that a less attractive woman will choose a mate on less appearance based grounds is false. The truth is the younger you are the more likely it is that appearance will reign supreme in choosing a mate.

 

Take a look at this article.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-therapy/201412/laws-attraction-how-do-we-select-life-partner

 

It mentions two scientific theories behind mate selection. Evolutionary "looks matter" theory and social role theory "looks aren't everything". Lets put those together.

 

 

You are a young man with little money and power all you would have to offer are looks and physical stamina.

 

When you are older you will have more resources to offer. If nothing else you will be wiser and have more social connections. So you will be able to attract a woman to that. (While better looking but foolish guys won't be a much of a factor).

 

 

My grandfather did that. He did not marry until he was in his early 40's and married a woman in her early 20's and had three kids. So... sure ask out less attractive women and build up your relationship self. They are more likely to say yes.

 

Interesting article.

 

Soo... When a struggling guy becomes a 40 year old virgin he uses his money he has to..convince... a 20 year old girl to be his wife?

 

Unfortunately then is the girl really attracted to the man? Or is she attracted to the money and upgrade in lifestyle from what she could of been living with a more attractive but poorer 20 year old guy?

 

As for the less attractive women in my experience they are not more likely to say yes, they still reject you just like everybody else.

[GravityMan]

I've always felt that telling lonely guys to try and date unattractive women was very bizarre and nonsensical advice. For one thing, for most people...having some sort of attraction or intrigue for the other person (even if it's minor) is a prerequisite in order for them to want to ask her out or accept in the first place.

 

It's better advice to tell them to stop thinking so much about dating and finding a partner...and just live your life, get out there and interact with all sorts of people, men and women, especially those around your age. The idea is to get to a point where you're comfortable being yourself, hanging out, having fun and socializing with people in general. In short, whittle away the "lonely" mindset. That will take time. Also, get to a point where you realize that women are just people, not goddesses.

 

Then, when you meet someone you ARE attracted to...there may still be a bit of awkwardness, but it'll be much easier to muster up the courage to make a move.

 

When it comes to finding opportunities to date...the harder you try and/or think, the more difficult you will make it on yourself.

[ZA Dater]

When I get told this I almost always want to turn around and use some very choice language to whomever is dispensing this, in my opinion, enormously hurtful advice, the inference being "well look that's maybe the best you can do"

[Moy]

Whenever I hear advice like this, I always ask those giving that advice to show me their extensive list of ex-partners who resemble this guy:

 

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/109/597/1199977_large.jpg

 

Exactly!

 

But when you then explain that even those who are obese etc. consider themselves too good for you, you are rounded on and labelled 'entitled'

 

Here's a snippet from a profile on POF:

 

"im a young 46 year old..like to have a laugh... If you're over the age of 50 with or without pic don't waste your time messaging me cos I'm not interested and you won't get a reply. Guys I know I'm fat but if you're fat yourself please don't message me as I like my men to be slim average or with muscles and the thought of two fat people having sex yuck the thought repulses me."

 

Yet it's guys who accused of being delusional and entitled, merely for wanting somebody whose weight begins with a 1 instead of a 2!

Edited April 28, 2015 by Moy

[elaine567]

Whether good looking or not the right personality is the key.

 

^^^this^^^

And this is where some men fall down, there is a distinct lack of good personality traits or a distinct inability to put their good personality traits on show.

Dating is about marketing goods, you have to first identify your target audience, make sure your product is acceptable to that audience, then sell, sell, sell.

Target audiences are very important, most feel safe within their own demographic. Most do not want to step out into unknown territory. They may be flattered, but some are suspicious of the motives of those who ask them out from a different part of town, from a different social class, from a different educational background, from a different age group, from a different race/country etc. In order to be accepted there has to be some link identified, some point of reference. Randomly asking random women out is destined to fail IMO.

 

Most "unattractive" guys I know who are successful with women IRL are persistent in their pursuit. I DO NOT mean they stalk women or are nasty to women or pursue women who definitely aren't interested, I just mean they don't take no for an answer, from women who seem interested, but do not say yes when directly asked out.

They continue to sell their "product" to her and that is where personality comes in again, and they eventually manage to persuade her to say yes to a date. It is a build up from a position of weakness to a stronger position, and many women like to see that determination.