The Duggar Family is so Inspirational!!

[amaysngrace]

Remember, a study was done and 93% of the sex offenders interviewed identified themselves as religious. That's a lot of religious people who sexually abused someone.

 

That study was from 2001. In 2001 only 8% of people polled had no religious affiliation.

 

So what's the big deal?

 

Religion | Gallup Historical Trends

[Rejected Rosebud]

But back on the subject... as disturbing as it is to contemplate, I wonder if there really is a causal (or less direct) link between religious beliefs and sexual abuse - i.e., is it really more common in religious families, or do we just hear more about it in the press because of the hypocrisy factor?

I don't know if it is more common in religious families, I know many religious families where this could never happen - but if the religion happens to elevate men to a supremacy where NOTHING they do in a family environment can be challenged by a woman or a child, and where it is basically the responsibility of potential victims to not "defraud" the men - that would provide a pretty fertile environment for it don't you think so???:confused: I mean look at the FLDS, the extreme Islamists, the umbrella protection of priests in the catholic church (not a family but related IMO), and families with a religious belief structure that informs their everyday life like this one does?? I would see it as a danger and I wound not (as a believing person) feel that it was Godly.

 

I mean there is certainly incest in all kinds of unfortunate families but the fact that some of them will publicly condemn all kinds of sexuality in front of the world and then actually do this is just … :sick: And attention getting.

[OpenBook]

What I did to was find an actual sex abuse study, an article about how parishes cover up their priests' sexual abuse of parishioners, and a website that support my view that religion is responsible for the majority of sexual abuse in the world.

 

Can you explain this view (bolded above) further, writergal? How did you come to this conclusion?

 

If it's based on your post where you linked the website (quoted below), your analysis of the data is faulty:

 

The Abel and Harlow study revealed that 93% (!) of sex offenders describe themselves as religious. 93%! So, sexual abuse certainly could be considered a religious phenomenon.

 

The fact that 93% of sex offenders consider themselves religious says NOTHING about how rampant sexual abuse is in the entire religious population. Nor does it make any comparison to non-religious people and the ratio of sexual abuse in that group.

 

I am interested in the ratios. If there is a higher percentage of sexual abuse in religious families than in the non-religious, then I would start to wonder if you have a valid argument. With all the media attention on the Catholic priest abuse, I've never seen any hard numbers on the percentage of priests who AREN'T pedophiles. Have you seen any?

[amaysngrace]

96% of priests don't molest, OpenBook

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/do-the-right-thing/201003/six-important-points-you-dont-hear-about-regarding-clergy-sexual

[autumnnight]

Autumnight, sincere question, how do you see this diggar situation in relationship to their own professed Christianity? Do you think that if they were not so wrapped up with their own virtue this would have been able to happen? Like if they were a nice Muslim family in America do you think that the local police would have helped them to hide child abuse?

 

P.S. I do not agree with writergrl that organized religion is inherently bad but I do believe that there ARE inherent dangers that need to be guarded against and are often NOT. Power corrupts.

 

I believe that Josh and his parents sinned against their family. Josh by the abuse, and his parents by using deception and exposing their daughters to further danger by not taking action. I believe that their hypocrisy has probably irreparably damaged any witness they night have had, had they handled this properly. I do not know what their personal faith is - only they and God know that.

 

I believe in redemption. That means that if someone is truly repentant, then God forgives. However, forgiveness does NOT exempt us from consequences. And real repentance is not wrapped in secrecy. I also believe that when public figures of faith have a moral failure, then public repentance is called for.

 

I am highly disappointed that after his past, Josh went on to become part of a family-oriented organization and continued to work around children. HE should have instituted better boundaries.

 

As far as religion and Christianity being the same, that is a common misconception of people who do not understand Biblical Christianity. Being "religious" (as in having some church affiliation), going to church, etc. do not make someone a Christian. Repentance of sin and faith in Christ makes one a Christian. There are people who have true faith in Christ who never darken the door of an organized church. There are LOTS of people who warm a pew in church several times a week who are NOT Christians.

 

I believe that heavy, restrictive, punitive legalism like the Gothard twisting of doctrine is dangerous. I believe it not only enhances temptation and secretive behavior, it damages the spirit and esteem of people, it incites fear, it is manipulative, and it creates a resentment that can last a lifetime. The people who go on and on about the evils of any sexual expression seem to have forgotten the book of Song of Solomon....and that the God who they say hates sex is actually the one who created it.

 

While most regular teenagers were exploring, I was the perfect girl waiting for it to bew "acceptable" to express my feelings. That and some other legalism based dogma caused me to overlook red flags. When my spirit was CRUSHED from...well, things I cannot even go into, all those desires that never should have been shameful to begin with....

 

I'm not going to go there. I am just going to say that I agree with much of what has been said, but priests and Duggars or no preists and Duggars, I KNOW that the God who loves me is NOT the "cause" of this treachery. It is HUMANS who have chosen to do these things. And they didn't choose it because religion told them to or Jesus likes it. They chose it because THEY are sinful and wrong.

[Quiet Storm]

1 in 6 American kids are sexually abused. It's rampant, regardless of religion. The dysfunction is passed down from generation to generation, with victims suffering BPD and PTSD, depression, anxiety, addiction. A small number who go on to be abusers. Crime is America's "in your face" problem, but sexual abuse is America's secret shame.

 

My grandfather told my sister that if she told, my dad would kill him and go to jail forever. She told no one until he was dead and gone, nearly 20 years later. Various cousins of mine were also abused by him and kept the secret. In many cases it's kept quiet due to imtimidation by the abuser. The Sandusky scandal had no religious element, but multiple victims and a huge cover up. If you ask sexual abuse victims why they didn't tell, I think most would not cite religion as the reason.

 

It happens in religious circumstances, and I agree there have been massive religious cover ups, but it's so much bigger than that.

[Lula Belle]

The Catholic church hid a lot more than a teenaged boy who touched sleeping teens.

 

What Josh did was wrong but you can't condemn all of Christianity for it any more than every Catholic is responsible for a few pedophile priest.

 

I have been seeing a lot about Jehovah's witnesses and hidden pedophiles as well. Candace continue is one of the cases I read about in the news...there are several more in the courts now. Its messed up.

[Lula Belle]

for those of you who have kids.. what exactly would you do if your son was touching you daughter? let's say - for simplicity - that your kids are 2 years apart and you've just got the 2 kids. they are both your children. and let's say it only happened a handful of times when your son was 14 and your daughter 12. do you cart your son off to jail so that your daughter is "free" from her attacker? how excatly do you resolve a situation like that? it's not ongoing, but you want to protect your daughter and also help your son. what steps do you take? a lot of people are saying he should have been taken to jail or whatever, but i bet none of you would haul your kid off to jail either. it's easy to say but not so easy to do and as a family you;d probably try to resolve it within the family first.

 

I have kids and as a mother and a woman if my son was molesting my daughter hell yes I would get police involved. I would want him accountable and hopefully scare the **** out of him so he will hopefully not do it again. And get the help he needs. Sweeping it under the rug does not help. Yes, it would be hard but necessary IMO.

[Lula Belle]

I don't know if it is more common in religious families, I know many religious families where this could never happen - but if the religion happens to elevate men to a supremacy where NOTHING they do in a family environment can be challenged by a woman or a child, and where it is basically the responsibility of potential victims to not "defraud" the men - that would provide a pretty fertile environment for it don't you think so???:confused: I mean look at the FLDS, the extreme Islamists, the umbrella protection of priests in the catholic church (not a family but related IMO), and families with a religious belief structure that informs their everyday life like this one does?? I would see it as a danger and I wound not (as a believing person) feel that it was Godly.

 

I mean there is certainly incest in all kinds of unfortunate families but the fact that some of them will publicly condemn all kinds of sexuality in front of the world and then actually do this is just … :sick: And attention getting.

 

So read up on Jehovah's witnesses and child sex abuse...they claim to be gods earthly organization and hide sex abuses of children to prevent bring reproach on Jehovah's name they say if a woman doesn't scream out, or wasn't dress appropriately, etc. Then she consented. ? I have jws in my family so when I read about all the cases against them it made me sick. Just...and environment that leads to hiding sex abusers so their church doesn't get a bad name. Disgusting.

[Lula Belle]

I have been seeing a lot about Jehovah's witnesses and hidden pedophiles as well. Candace continue is one of the cases I read about in the news...there are several more in the courts now. Its messed up.

 

Candace Conti...

Jehovah's Witnesses silencing techniques are as terrifying as child abuse | Comment is free | The Guardian

 

Did leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses cover up child sex abuse?

 

https://www.revealnews.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-use-1st-amendment-to-hide-child-sex-abuse-claims/

 

Six claim they were molested as kids by Jehovah's Witness elders - Fox4News.com | Dallas-Fort Worth News, Weather, Sports

 

Etc etc. Just....craziness.

[writergal]

Candace Conti...

Jehovah's Witnesses silencing techniques are as terrifying as child abuse | Comment is free | The Guardian

 

Did leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses cover up child sex abuse?

 

https://www.revealnews.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-use-1st-amendment-to-hide-child-sex-abuse-claims/

 

Six claim they were molested as kids by Jehovah's Witness elders - Fox4News.com | Dallas-Fort Worth News, Weather, Sports

 

Etc etc. Just....craziness.

 

Wow that is so disturbing. Just proves my point about how rampant sexual abuse is across pretty much all religious sects.

 

More from The Duggars: apparently they are going to sit down with Fox's Megyn Kelly to tell their side of their sick story. Since it is sure to be a train wreck I plan to watch it for the entertainment factor.

 

Fox News? Megyn Kelly secures exclusive sit-down interview with Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar | Fox News

[umirano]

There's nothing so bad one couldn't defend it by resorting to a theological argument. Point proven by the religious nonsense in this thread.

 

I'm disgusted. I hope the victims can escape their abusive family and the religious guilt tripping they have been experiencing.

 

Let's not forget the dozens of families where these things are happening right now and who are not on national TV.

[autumnnight]

There's nothing so bad one couldn't defend it by resorting to a theological argument. Point proven by the religious nonsense in this thread.

 

I'm disgusted. I hope the victims can escape their abusive family and the religious guilt tripping they have been experiencing.

 

Let's not forget the dozens of families where these things are happening right now and who are not on national TV.

 

Yes of course. I'd write a longer replay, but I'm too busy gathering up all the neighborhood children....

 

Apparently it is okay to generalize and be incredibly offensive as long as it is about religion....

[Lula Belle]

Many religious people have good intentions...are kind and helpful and trying to live a life according to the good principles in the bible.

 

However, too many are judgmental and think they can say/do things hateful to others who don't follow the principles they follow. If all Christians were loving people to all, and not judgmental, things would be different. After all, the bible says god is the one who judges sinners, yet too many Christians feel they are entitled to judge others.

 

What I believe leads to pedophiles and other disgusting people to feed off religion is the culture within a religion that everyone is trustworthy. Everyone follows god and lives right. This leads to people trusting people who are simply not trustworthy and even dangerous. Then they try to cover it up because they don't want people to judge the religion based on what a criminal has done, when they should protect children and members by taking action against perpetrators. It leads to a perfect hunting ground for these child molestors.

[autumnnight]

Many religious people have good intentions...are kind and helpful and trying to live a life according to the good principles in the bible.

 

However, too many are judgmental and think they can say/do things hateful to others who don't follow the principles they follow. If all Christians were loving people to all, and not judgmental, things would be different. After all, the bible says god is the one who judges sinners, yet too many Christians feel they are entitled to judge others.

 

What I believe leads to pedophiles and other disgusting people to feed off religion is the culture within a religion that everyone is trustworthy. Everyone follows god and lives right. This leads to people trusting people who are simply not trustworthy and even dangerous. Then they try to cover it up because they don't want people to judge the religion based on what a criminal has done, when they should protect children and members by taking action against perpetrators. It leads to a perfect hunting ground for these child molestors.

 

This is an excellent point made in a tactful way. The answer when someone who is in a church or religion commits these crimes is to alert the authorities, allow the person to receive the consequences, and publicly disavow such crimes as absolutely wrong. Groups DO shoot themselves in the foot when they play "forgiveness cover-up."

[OpenBook]

In all the media frenzy over the Duggars, only in occasional bits and pieces do I see the victims even being mentioned. All the focus is on Josh, the perpe-traitor. Well, here is one article that gives voice to a victim. I wish all media outlets would pick this up and replay it over and over again, until we REALLY GET IT what we as a society are doing when we don't adequately address sexual abuse. We are creating a very real House of Horrors. This is what hell must be like.

 

WARNING: Reading this article was devastating - it made me weep, gag, and tense up with visceral white-hot anger. The article itself starts with a warning that it may "trigger" victims who read it. I am not a victim myself, but I identify with the devastation that results when no one believes you or comes to help you or STOPS THE NIGHTMARE.

 

Sexually assaulted in a Christian home: A victim speaks - Rhymes with Religion

[Noproblem]

My sister watched at the show once, and she said probably the father molest the girls..

 

she is a good judge of characters, even though I fight with her all the time about her extreme opinions which later appear to be correct!'

 

So, months after that comment, we came to realize that, she was a bit off with her comment, and it was the brother who had possibly molested one or two of his sisters..

 

 

DO you still gullible enough to believe in hypocrite who appear on TV talking about how they love their god? regardless of their religions, they all lies!

 

People of real faith, don't always talk about how good they are and how great their religion is, no !

 

they act and through their good actions, people know that they are good and trust worthy..

 

Covering up for your son after he molested other girls including your girls! or should I say, your slave girls..!

 

What a good and and religious family!

[Quiet Storm]

I watched the interview with the parents, and I have to say my honest opinion- Jim Bob is a piece of shlt and Michelle is a phony bltch.

[writergal]

I watched the interview too, and I couldn't believe the crocodile tears that Michelle was crying. You could tell that she and Jim Bob were lying. When Megyn Kelly would ask them both a direct question, they would evade giving a direct answer, and just repeat (like parrots) how devastated they were, and how they put safeguards in place (what safeguards?). You could tell they were making their responses up on the spot, the way they'd look at each other to corroborate their lies. What I really couldn't believe is when their daughter Jessa, one of the victims, defended her brother Josh's actions. She is in serious denial. Very sad.

 

Megyn Kelly didn't exactly call them out on their lies either, so I have zero respect for her. And, Kelly didn't even address the police report details, or directly ask them why they waited 16 months to report their son to the police. It was a pretty awful interview.

 

Now, if Oprah or Diane Sawyer had interviewed the Duggars, you know they would have got straight to the point, and not put up with evasive answers because they are both good at pushing their guests to tell the truth.

 

This was the 1st of 2 interviews Kelly will do with the Duggars. In my opinion it's a waste of tv airwaves because she didn't even call them out on anything. She's not a very good journalist in that regard.

Edited June 4, 2015 by writergal

[writergal]

Here's a recap of the first interview that Megyn Kelly did with the Duggars.

 

Jessa Duggar And Jill Duggar Were Josh Duggar?s Victims, Defended Him During Megyn Kelly Interview [Video]

 

Jessa Duggar and Jill Duggar recently confirmed that they were sexually molested by their older brother, Josh Duggar, and the 19 Kids and Counting stars agreed to talk to The Kelly File host Megyn Kelly in an interview that will air on the Fox News Channel this Friday.

 

 

The first half of the Duggar family’s interview with Megyn Kelly aired Wednesday night during The Kelly File, and Megyn chatted with Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar about their son’s admission that he sexually molested Jessa Duggar, Jill Duggar, and two other sisters when he was a teenager.

 

The parents tried to play down Josh’s multiple instances of molestation by saying that many of them, but not all of them, involved Josh groping his victims over their clothing while they were asleep and unaware of what was happening to them.

 

Downplay is right. Who downplays their own child's molestation of another child, especially when it's one of their own?

 

“This was not rape or anything like that,” Jim Bob said.

Much of the Duggars’ interview was a defense of Josh, and they also complained the release of Josh Duggar’s police report and the media coverage of what it revealed about their family. Instead of becoming advocates for victims of sexual abuse, the Duggars revealed that they want to help young men like Josh by advocating for the protection of juvenile

police records.

 

This part of the interview I couldn't believe. They had the perfect chance to use their interview as a platform to advocate for victims of sexual abuse because their own daughters were victims of it. Yet they chose to whine about how they want to advocate for the police protection of juvenile police records? Clearly they don't value their own daughters' lives as much as they value their son Josh. They are advocating for covering up juvenile crimes. What a screwed up value system the Duggars have.

 

Judging from what Jessa Duggar said during her interview with Megyn Kelly, it sounds like she shares her parents’ views about Josh Duggar — she also believes that her brother is being unfairly treated. According to the Daily Mail, Jessa Duggar actually defended her brother by saying that people are “lying” when they call him a child molester.

 

“I do want to speak up in his defense against people who are calling him a child molester or a pedophile or a rapist, some people are saying. I’m like that is so overboard and a lie really, I mean people get mad at me for saying that but I can say this because I was one of the victims.”

 

I wonder if they threatened Jessa and Jill before the interview aired. Like, "you better support your brother or..." It's not normal for a victim of sexual abuse to support the person who sexually molested them.

 

Michelle Duggar was also questioned about the child molester label during

her interview with Megyn Kelly. Megyn specifically asked Michelle about her previous comments comparing transgender women to child molesters and the reaction to them — as the Inquisitr previously reported, many people labeled Michelle Duggar a hypocrite after it was discovered that her own son was molesting his sisters. Unfortunately, Jim Bob Duggar jumped in to offer the definition of the word “pedophile” as a response to Megyn’s child molester question. According to Jim Bob, Josh can’t be considered a pedophile because he was under age 16 when he started molesting his younger sisters. According to In Touch Weekly, Josh Duggar was 15-years-old when he fondled his then-5-year-old sister.

 

The Duggars are against abortion and gay marriage. And she compared transgender women to child molesters? That's screwed up! I would agree that Michelle Duggar is a hypocrite.

[OpenBook]

When Megyn Kelly would ask them both a direct question, they would evade giving a direct answer, and just repeat (like parrots) how devastated they were, and how they put safeguards in place (what safeguards?).

 

Michelle rattled them off toward the end of the interview - boys couldn't be left in charge of girls; girls couldn't sit in boys' laps (except Daddy's); no 2 kids could be left alone in a room; no hide-and-seek games; etc. Which is great, but how are you going to enforce it when you've got 19 children? There's no way your eyeballs can be everywhere 24/7, not even if you're the sharpest Mom & Dad in the world. And they are definitely not the sharpest!!!

 

I thought Megyn did a good job; she asked a lot of tough questions. I thought their responses were far more interesting (and telling) than how the interview was conducted. But I'm with you, writergal, on how they kept looking at each other as if to corroborate what they would say; and I'm not buying Michelle's crocodile tears either.

 

Like, how Jim Bob kept going back to Josh when Megyn asked him multiple times about getting help for the girls. Hello??? What about your daughters?? Michelle did address the questions (she said the young ones weren't aware of the abuse) and that she got them all "professional, accredited" counseling (this is contrary to what the media has been reporting).

 

Jim Bob and Michelle also said they didn't know the state trooper they talked to when they took Josh to the police to report the crime. This is WAY contrary to what the media has been reporting.

 

And when Megyn asked them why in the world they would agree to do a reality show after all this had happened in their family, their response was that they expected the juvy records to remain sealed and thought it would never come out. (That alone made me want to heave.) I dare them to sue the police for that, like they hinted they were checking into doing that. I DARE them.

 

I'm sure the entire interview will be picked apart by the media in the coming days. If they're lying, it'll come out.

[writergal]

Michelle rattled them off toward the end of the interview - boys couldn't be left in charge of girls; girls couldn't sit in boys' laps (except Daddy's); no 2 kids could be left alone in a room; no hide-and-seek games; etc. Which is great, but how are you going to enforce it when you've got 19 children? There's no way your eyeballs can be everywhere 24/7, not even if you're the sharpest Mom & Dad in the world. And they are definitely not the sharpest!!!

 

I thought Megyn did a good job; she asked a lot of tough questions. I thought their responses were far more interesting (and telling) than how the interview was conducted. But I'm with you, writergal, on how they kept looking at each other as if to corroborate what they would say; and I'm not buying Michelle's crocodile tears either.

 

Like, how Jim Bob kept going back to Josh when Megyn asked him multiple times about getting help for the girls. Hello??? What about your daughters?? Michelle did address the questions (she said the young ones weren't aware of the abuse) and that she got them all "professional, accredited" counseling (this is contrary to what the media has been reporting).

 

Jim Bob and Michelle also said they didn't know the state trooper they talked to when they took Josh to the police to report the crime. This is WAY contrary to what the media has been reporting.

And when Megyn asked them why in the world they would agree to do a reality show after all this had happened in their family, their response was that they expected the juvy records to remain sealed and thought it would never come out. (That alone made me want to heave.) I dare them to sue the police for that, like they hinted they were checking into doing that. I DARE them.

 

I'm sure the entire interview will be picked apart by the media in the coming days. If they're lying, it'll come out.

 

Yeah, I noticed that Jim Bob refused to directly address his own daughters' getting counseling or help, and would return to defend his son Josh. It is REALLY hard to believe that Michelle and Jim Bob got *any* help for their daughters. I think they were more concerned with themselves and their son Josh; they knew if they reported Josh's abuse to real authorities (not their church friends who are police), that they would be held accountable and probably risk having all of their children put into the social work system.

 

And worried more about their reputations with their Republican Church friends. Remember, Jim Bob said that they didn't report Josh because they weren't mandated reporters. Idiots! They are parents! Parents *should* and *need* to report their children to authorities when they find out they molested their own siblings. I don't care how hard it is, you owe it to the victims of your child's sexual abuse to report him. But again, here the Duggars show their true colors: they were more worried about their reputation than their own daughters' well-being.

 

Yeah, those "safe guards" Michelle rattled off are not realistic when you have 19 children and only 2 parents who can't be everywhere at once. The best safeguard would have been to remove Josh completely from the home, put into a legitimate treatment program for juvenile sex abusers, and not allowed any alone time with any of his brothers or sisters, but supervised at all times.

 

Yeah, I couldn't believe their response as to why they did the reality show. That made me want to throw something at my tv. They want to sue the police? Morons! They were an accessory to their son's molesting their own daughters because they covered it up and didn't report it to proper authorities. I think they intentionally let it go past the 3 year statute date so that they wouldn't get into legal trouble and lose the rest of their children to social services. And their values are so screwed up, when they'd rather protect their son and their reputation than protect their own daughters, whom I am convinced were brainwashed by Michelle and Jim Bob to support their brother or lose privileges of some sort, like financial, or maybe they were told their God would smite the girls for speaking against their brother Josh. I don't know any sex abuse victim who would ever support their abuser.

[autumnnight]

Here's a recap of the first interview that Megyn Kelly did with the Duggars.

 

Jessa Duggar And Jill Duggar Were Josh Duggar?s Victims, Defended Him During Megyn Kelly Interview [Video]

 

 

 

Downplay is right. Who downplays their own child's molestation of another child, especially when it's one of their own?

 

 

 

This part of the interview I couldn't believe. They had the perfect chance to use their interview as a platform to advocate for victims of sexual abuse because their own daughters were victims of it. Yet they chose to whine about how they want to advocate for the police protection of juvenile police records? Clearly they don't value their own daughters' lives as much as they value their son Josh. They are advocating for covering up juvenile crimes. What a screwed up value system the Duggars have.

 

 

 

I wonder if they threatened Jessa and Jill before the interview aired. Like, "you better support your brother or..." It's not normal for a victim of sexual abuse to support the person who sexually molested them.

 

 

 

The Duggars are against abortion and gay marriage. And she compared transgender women to child molesters? That's screwed up! I would agree that Michelle Duggar is a hypocrite.

 

Legalistic groups like this - religious or not - operate on an all or nothing, party line, fear-based mode of groupthink. They say the same things over and over, ignore any question that doesn't fit their paradigm, and can become downright creepy, stalky, and threatening to anyone who questions them too much - ESPECIALLY anyone who used to buy into the groupthink and now knows better.

 

People like that are underestimated in their scariness, actually. Mainly because they have deluded themselves into thinking their motives for their threatening behavior are right.

 

They are way scarier than spiders

[GorillaTheater]

Legalistic groups like this - religious or not - operate on an all or nothing, party line, fear-based mode of groupthink. They say the same things over and over, ignore any question that doesn't fit their paradigm, and can become downright creepy, stalky, and threatening to anyone who questions them too much - ESPECIALLY anyone who used to buy into the groupthink and now knows better.

 

People like that are underestimated in their scariness, actually. Mainly because they have deluded themselves into thinking their motives for their threatening behavior are right.

 

They are way scarier than spiders

 

Agreed. I understand your concerns about God and Christianity as a whole not be attacked as a result of what happened here, and I agree with that, too.

 

This is all about one set of parents who have utterly failed their children, not God.

[autumnnight]

Agreed. I understand your concerns about God and Christianity as a whole not be attacked as a result of what happened here, and I agree with that, too.

 

This is all about one set of parents who have utterly failed their children, not God.

 

I'll go ahead and say that there was a time in my younger life where I was negatively affected by legalistic religion. But the REAL hellacious stuff was brought about by legaism that had nothing to do with religion, and it's STILL not over. Scary people are scary people no matter what their view on God.