The Duggar Family is so Inspirational!!

[autumnnight]

I'll look it up this evening, meant to look it up prior, but was really tired. It's a liberal movement or group attempting to minimize pedophiles.

 

Is it NAMBLA?

[xxoo]

well, i was actually asking a legitimate question of people who have kids. what would they do. you didn't answer, so your response isn't helpful. if the daughters are victims, how do you remove your own child - a son - from them? assuming it only happened a handful of times and wasn't ongoing for years or anything. what course of action would a parent realistically take? not many parents are going to call the cops on their 14 year old child and have him hauled into jail. people are very quick to say he's a pedophile, take him off to jail, etc. but what parent is going to label their own kid that if the situation presented itself to them.

 

Remove the offender.

 

Counseling for all. If the professional counselor reports, so be it. I would not personally call the police myself.

 

Try to figure out where I went wrong and what happened to my 14 year old.

 

Not have more babies, because the ones I have are a mess!

[Michelle ma Belle]

Is it NAMBLA?

 

North American Man/Boy Love Association.

 

First heard of this revolting group on Howard Stern of all places many years ago. I thought it was a joke. Sadly no

[Rejected Rosebud]

Remove the offender.

 

Counseling for all. If the professional counselor reports, so be it. I would not personally call the police myself.

 

Try to figure out where I went wrong and what happened to my 14 year old.

 

Not have more babies, because the ones I have are a mess!

also not have the whole thing hidden and remain on tv representing my family as the absolute paragon of Christian virtue and values!!! :sick::sick: I wonder if it had been an older duggar daughter diddling her little brothers and sisters how much effort would have gone into protecting her and hiding this??? I bet she would have been put away and nobody who watched the show (or TLC for that matter) would have ever known she existed!!! It's nice that the modesty of the family's girls was scrutinized though, poor Josh must have just been overwhelmed by their inherently satanic ways, those females!

[Rejected Rosebud]

North American Man/Boy Love Association.

 

First heard of this revolting group on Howard Stern of all places many years ago. I thought it was a joke. Sadly no

It's a disgusting group of sexual predators, they don't have a "liberal" political affiliation though !!! (if that is what pureinheat was talking about) There are probably just as many conservatives as liberals in there, I don't think that being a pederast has a party!!!

[Rejected Rosebud]

What a mess. It's quite reminiscent of the scandal of child abuse disclosures being "dealt with internally" by the Catholic Church.

Yep. Why do you think this happens with such frequency in organized religious environments?? Not to say it's relegated to those but sheesh there sure are alot of instances!!

[GorillaTheater]

Yep. Why do you think this happens with such frequency in organized religious environments?? Not to say it's relegated to those but sheesh there sure are alot of instances!!

 

Outward image is of considerable importance to a lot of folks in that milieu, kind of like the politically or socially prominent. I'd say there are unfortunately a lot of folks who would place image above the well-being of their children.

[xxoo]

Yep. Why do you think this happens with such frequency in organized religious environments?? Not to say it's relegated to those but sheesh there sure are alot of instances!!

 

When you take a stand on strict sexual morality, there is little flexibility to be human and explore sexuality in healthy ways.

 

It's sort of like an "abstinence only" sex ed program that results in higher rates of teen pregnancy and STD than the "safer sex" program. Sexuality is a powerful drive, and needs a healthy outlet.

 

Also, abuse begets abuse. So if it gets started in the community, it'll work its way down. And this is why I wonder if Josh ever experienced any abuse, because it is NOT normal for a 14 year old to molest his siblings

[Michelle ma Belle]

When you take a stand on strict sexual morality, there is little flexibility to be human and explore sexuality in healthy ways.

 

It's sort of like an "abstinence only" sex ed program that results in higher rates of teen pregnancy and STD than the "safer sex" program. Sexuality is a powerful drive, and needs a healthy outlet.

 

Also, abuse begets abuse. So if it gets started in the community, it'll work its way down. And this is why I wonder if Josh ever experienced any abuse, because it is NOT normal for a 14 year old to molest his siblings

 

THANK YOU!!!!

 

Hence my comment about this being just the tip of the iceberg. Where there is smoke there is fire. I've seen it time and time again.

[autumnnight]

I do not believe this is a religious phenomenon. It is an abuse phenomenon. Using this situation to discredit religion in general is biased and unintelligent.

[writergal]

Yep. Why do you think this happens with such frequency in organized religious environments?? Not to say it's relegated to those but sheesh there sure are alot of instances!!

 

Because of sexual repression of priests and nuns.

 

I do not believe this is a religious phenomenon. It is an abuse phenomenon. Using this situation to discredit religion in general is biased and unintelligent.

 

If that were true, then why is there a database online of priests who have been accused of sexual abuse?

 

Or, the fact that after a priest sexually abuses his parishioner, the Church just covers it up and allows that priest to continue to sexually abuse his parishioners. Or, priests simply vanish from their parish. Some are jailed. Some are "retired" and still paid a pension and live in nice homes. It's disgusting to think about. I'm pretty certain the Pope in Rome knows exactly what's going on with all the Catholic parishes across the world. But each Parish has to hold its own "offending priest" accountable. Not all Parishes do.

 

The Abel and Harlow study revealed that 93% (!) of sex offenders describe themselves as religious. 93%! So, sexual abuse certainly could be considered a religious phenomenon.

 

I think religious people like the Duggars have a lot more dirty laundry related to Josh Duggar's sexual molestation of his sisters, that has yet to come to light. Someone said it's just the tip of the ice berg. I'd have to agree with that. Whether or not Josh Duggar was sexually abused himself, it's easy to see that his family's values are skewed that they would put money and fame above actually finding justice for their own abused daughters and counseling for the entire Duggar Clan. I think that's why I'm so interested in this case. The Duggars present themselves as the paragon of the conservative, religious right. Yet the world knows that's just a facade. A veneer. Not reality. But then, reality tv is not reality.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I do not believe this is a religious phenomenon. It is an abuse phenomenon. Using this situation to discredit religion in general is biased and unintelligent.

Woops! You must have misread what I wrote!! I didn't say it's a "religious phenomenon" This is what I wrote so you can understand:

 

Why do you think this happens with such frequency in organized religious environments?? Not to say it's relegated to those but sheesh there sure are alot of instances!!

 

It's a question which is NOT "biased and unintelligent," exploring through questioning is smart at least I think so!!! Religious extremists especially ones that put women and children in subservient roles like these "quiverists" or whatever they are called and their middle eastern brethren the extreme Islamists seem to just breed this kind of thing. Peas in a pod IMO. At least the buggars aren't going to burn the women for being temptresses though I guess that is a plus!!

[autumnnight]

Because of sexual repression of priests and nuns.

 

 

 

If that were true, then why is there a database online of priests who have been accused of sexual abuse?

 

Or, the fact that after a priest sexually abuses his parishioner, the Church just covers it up and allows that priest to continue to sexually abuse his parishioners. Or, priests simply vanish from their parish. Some are jailed. Some are "retired" and still paid a pension and live in nice homes. It's disgusting to think about. I'm pretty certain the Pope in Rome knows exactly what's going on with all the Catholic parishes across the world. But each Parish has to hold its own "offending priest" accountable. Not all Parishes do.

 

The Abel and Harlow study revealed that 93% (!) of sex offenders describe themselves as religious. 93%! So, sexual abuse certainly could be considered a religious phenomenon.

 

I think religious people like the Duggars have a lot more dirty laundry related to Josh Duggar's sexual molestation of his sisters, that has yet to come to light. Someone said it's just the tip of the ice berg. I'd have to agree with that. Whether or not Josh Duggar was sexually abused himself, it's easy to see that his family's values are skewed that they would put money and fame above actually finding justice for their own abused daughters and counseling for the entire Duggar Clan. I think that's why I'm so interested in this case. The Duggars present themselves as the paragon of the conservative, religious right. Yet the world knows that's just a facade. A veneer. Not reality. But then, reality tv is not reality.

 

I can see why people who disdain those who believe in God would like to think this way.

 

Bottom line, Josh Duggar is not an indictment of Jesus. He's an indictment of Josh Duggar.

[writergal]

Woops! You must have misread what I wrote!! I didn't say it's a "religious phenomenon" This is what I wrote so you can understand:

 

 

 

It's a question which is NOT "biased and unintelligent," exploring through questioning is smart at least I think so!!! Religious extremists especially ones that put women and children in subservient roles like these "quiverists" or whatever they are called and their middle eastern brethren the extreme Islamists seem to just breed this kind of thing. Peas in a pod IMO. At least the buggars aren't going to burn the women for being temptresses though I guess that is a plus!!

 

All religions, not just those "quiverfull" folk, aim to keep women and children subservient and objectified to be slaves to "man." And I agree with you that exploring the "environment" of religion as a common source of sexual abuse is not "biased and unintelligent." It's the opposite. It's exposing what religion as a whole -- yes whole -- wants covered up: it permits its own priests and nuns to sexually abuse naive and vulnerable parishioners. This sort of abuse is rampant throughout all religions, not just Catholic. And I don't see it going away anytime soon either.

 

The Duggars's situation has only shed more light on a dark secret of religion. And it's hiliariously ironic how the Duggars ran to their Church first, to form a plan of how to cover up Josh Duggar's sexual abuse of his sisters (before their show on TLC, but still they were only interested in protecting their public image even then).

 

So the Church helped them concoct "the great lie" which they also got their sheriff friend (who is now jailed for 56 years for pornography possession) to help with.

 

How any religious person can say that religion isn't tied to sexual abuse, just shows me how far in denial that they are when the evidence is everywhere that religion and sexual abuse are interconnected. There is just no way to deny that when it's true and has been for a long, long, long time.

[autumnnight]

All religions, not just those "quiverfull" folk, aim to keep women and children subservient and objectified to be slaves to "man." And I agree with you that exploring the "environment" of religion as a common source of sexual abuse is not "biased and unintelligent." It's the opposite. It's exposing what religion as a whole -- yes whole -- wants covered up: it permits its own priests and nuns to sexually abuse naive and vulnerable parishioners. This sort of abuse is rampant throughout all religions, not just Catholic. And I don't see it going away anytime soon either.

 

The Duggars's situation has only shed more light on a dark secret of religion. And it's hiliariously ironic how the Duggars ran to their Church first, to form a plan of how to cover up Josh Duggar's sexual abuse of his sisters (before their show on TLC, but still they were only interested in protecting their public image even then).

 

So the Church helped them concoct "the great lie" which they also got their sheriff friend (who is now jailed for 56 years for pornography possession) to help with.

 

How any religious person can say that religion isn't tied to sexual abuse, just shows me how far in denial that they are when the evidence is everywhere that religion and sexual abuse are interconnected. There is just no way to deny that when it's true and has been for a long, long, long time.

 

I think it is equally ridiculous that someone who is not religious and is biased against religion thinks they know the inner workings of every group and church.

 

Except for the brief Bill Gothard oriented church expreience, I have never been subjected to what you state all religions do.

 

In short, you are wrong. Sorry.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I can see why people who disdain those who believe in God would like to think this way.

 

Think what way?? That child abuse is wrong and ESPECIALLY when cloaked in a church and a family? Do you think God condones it as long as the people who do it are vocal "Christians"? Sorry but that makes me very sad. Poor Jesus I really think that you and the duggars might have misunderstood his message pretty bad.

 

I love God and Jesus and I still think that religious extremism whether in the form of Christianity or Islam, Mormonism or whatever breeds alot of abuse. There is evidence this is not just my "unintelligent" idea!! As does political power in the hands of organized religion ie the Catholic church and again Sharia law. Power corrupts, really it does.

 

I think it's possible to love God and at the same time HATE child abusers and those who seek to cover it up in order to STAY ON TV and present themselves as paragons of virtue, even if they are people who claim to be the world's biggest Christians evah!

 

Bottom line, Josh Duggar is not an indictment of Jesus. He's an indictment of Josh Duggar.

Why do you think that this kind of discussion is an indictment of Jesus, I am sure Jesus would be just as grossed out by this group of sickos as I am!! Even though I guess I should not presume to speak for Him, I still know in my heart that is is not a fan of child abuse by His "representatives" on TV.

[autumnnight]

Why? Here's why:

 

All religions, not just those "quiverfull" folk, aim to keep women and children subservient and objectified to be slaves to "man." And I agree with you that exploring the "environment" of religion as a common source of sexual abuse is not "biased and unintelligent." It's the opposite. It's exposing what religion as a whole -- yes whole -- wants covered up: it permits its own priests and nuns to sexually abuse naive and vulnerable parishioners. This sort of abuse is rampant throughout all religions, not just Catholic. And I don't see it going away anytime soon either.

[writergal]

I think it is equally ridiculous that someone who is not religious and is biased against religion thinks they know the inner workings of every group and church.

 

Except for the brief Bill Gothard oriented church expreience, I have never been subjected to what you state all religions do.

 

In short, you are wrong. Sorry.

 

Even if I wasn't an Atheist, I would still blame religion for the rampant sexual abuse that occurs within its church walls, that its "own" cover up, lie about, and hide from the public. If I was still a Catholic and believed in God, I will still be repulsed by religion's leading role in the way it perpetuates sexual abuse.

 

The Duggars are terrible representatives of religious people, for the way they covered up Josh Duggar's molestation.

 

And just because you haven't been sexually abused, doesn't mean it doesn't exist in religion. If that's what you're claiming? Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

So, I guess all that evidence I linked to doesn't mean anything to those who don't want it to? Well, it's out there. A database full of priests from parishes across the U.S. who have been sued, accused, and settled for sexual abuse claims. That's not my invention. I just found it and posted it here to support my belief that religion is a major cause for sex abuse.

 

Remember, a study was done and 93% of the sex offenders interviewed identified themselves as religious. That's a lot of religious people who sexually abused someone.

[autumnnight]

Even if I wasn't an Atheist, I would still blame religion for the rampant sexual abuse that occurs within its church walls, that its "own" cover up, lie about, and hide from the public. If I was still a Catholic and believed in God, I will still be repulsed by religion's leading role in the way it perpetuates sexual abuse.

 

The Duggars are terrible representatives of religious people, for the way they covered up Josh Duggar's molestation.

 

And just because you haven't been sexually abused, doesn't mean it doesn't exist in religion. If that's what you're claiming? Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

So, I guess all that evidence I linked to doesn't mean anything to those who don't want it to? Well, it's out there. A database full of priests from parishes across the U.S. who have been sued, accused, and settled for sexual abuse claims. That's not my invention. I just found it and posted it here to support my belief that religion is a major cause for sex abuse.

 

Remember, a study was done and 93% of the sex offenders interviewed identified themselves as religious. That's a lot of religious people who sexually abused someone.

 

You have got to be kidding. Not only have I spoken on this very thread about being abused (and you commented), nowhere did I say it doesn't ecxist. You'd have to purposely be obtuse to think that.

 

I just think the opposite knee jerk anti-religion spew that since Priests and Josh Duggar claim to be Christians every religion/religious person is tainted is just ridiculous.

 

There are places where people who believe in Jesus honor him and each other. I realize that doesn't fit in with the "all religious people are pervy idiots" worldview. But not every Christian is a pedophile or condones it.

 

Surely you can comprehend that claiing to be religious is not the same thing as actually being a Christan....

[xxoo]

There are places where people who believe in Jesus honor him and each other. I realize that doesn't fit in with the "all religious people are pervy idiots" worldview. But not every Christian is a pedophile or condones it.

 

You are correct.

 

The more extreme and judgmental the religious group, the more likely it tends to include hypocrisy and dysfunction, imo. These types do not represent the Jesus I was taught about well.

 

As an example, it's coming out today that Jim Bob Duggar suggested capital punishment as an appropriate punishment for incest in 2002 when he was campaigning for state senate. That is far beyond the average religious response, and predictably, how far we fall when we position ourselves so far above others.

[writergal]

You have got to be kidding. Not only have I spoken on this very thread about being abused (and you commented), nowhere did I say it doesn't ecxist. You'd have to purposely be obtuse to think that.

 

I just think the opposite knee jerk anti-religion spew that since Priests and Josh Duggar claim to be Christians every religion/religious person is tainted is just ridiculous.

 

There are places where people who believe in Jesus honor him and each other. I realize that doesn't fit in with the "all religious people are pervy idiots" worldview. But not every Christian is a pedophile or condones it.

 

Surely you can comprehend that claiing to be religious is not the same thing as actually being a Christan....

 

Ah yes you did comment and I did respond to you about your own abuse. That said, why are you calling me out for pointing to evidence online that supports my belief about how much religion is responsible for the sexual abuse that occurs in this world? That is not ridiculous. It's factual. I think it's hard for religious people in general, to accept the fact that there may be a priest or two in their own parish who is molesting parishioners.

 

I never said that all Christians are pedophiles or condone it. You just did in your post above. What I did to was find an actual sex abuse study, an article about how parishes cover up their priests' sexual abuse of parishioners, and a website that support my view that religion is responsible for the majority of sexual abuse in the world. You disagree with that view and that's fine. But look at how the paragons of virtues (pft) the Duggars handled their own son's sexual abuse of his sisters?

 

What are you arguing? That being religious isn't the same as being a Christian? That makes zero sense. Both are the same. Christians are religious. I don't know any Christians who aren't religious. There's morally good people who aren't Christians.

[Rejected Rosebud]

Autumnight, sincere question, how do you see this diggar situation in relationship to their own professed Christianity? Do you think that if they were not so wrapped up with their own virtue this would have been able to happen? Like if they were a nice Muslim family in America do you think that the local police would have helped them to hide child abuse?

 

P.S. I do not agree with writergrl that organized religion is inherently bad but I do believe that there ARE inherent dangers that need to be guarded against and are often NOT. Power corrupts.

[writergal]

xxoo just beat me too it about Jim Bob's hypocrisy. The same year his son Josh molested his sisters, Jim Bob campaigned that incest and rape should be punishable by death. Knowing that his own son just molested his daughters.

 

Duggar Dad's Political Platform: Incest Should Be Punishable by Death

[OpenBook]

I'm willing bet this is just the tip of the iceberg regarding the Duggars.

 

I hope to God you're wrong... but I have a horrible feeling you're right.

[OpenBook]

All religions, not just those "quiverfull" folk, aim to keep women and children subservient and objectified to be slaves to "man."

 

I know a few female pastors who would beg to differ with you on that!

 

But back on the subject... as disturbing as it is to contemplate, I wonder if there really is a causal (or less direct) link between religious beliefs and sexual abuse - i.e., is it really more common in religious families, or do we just hear more about it in the press because of the hypocrisy factor?