AlwaysGrowing Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I'm with Oldshirt on this one. The issue that I would have to address with my "friend"... Is their complete lack of respect of me....to even ask such a thing. It would also seem like this would not be something someone would respond "let me think about it" .....if they felt it was okay. So...you have either already given the green light....or this isn't the whole story. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 This, exactly this. On the last line I'd like to write that she would go ballistic because as a wayward, she feels entitlement. And if the guy who she thought was a "save bet" would suddenly screw around elsewhere that entitlement would be crushed and she'd go ballistic (cheaters are the most jealous people you'll ever meet). I'd say that the guy should tell her nonetheless and agree on an open marriage together, after all she already tried to make a run for it and would have done it if her OM had been in the boat too. But for this, that guy would need a little bit of guts, some backbone and balls, and obviously he doesn't have any of that. True. When the WW wife was thrown by her OM, it doesn't seem like a clear conversation took place between the two, where he said 'I'm not your plan B, and we are now just coparents living together ONLY' or 'this marriage is over and I will date whoever I wish from now on ' Anytime a relationship us secret, unless kids are hiding from parents, then it screams affair to me. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Saying your house is in a convenient part of town is nonsense. Honestly, even if my single friend wanted to bring her boyfriend to my house for (let's cut to the chase) sex , I wouldn't agree. My home is not a fu** joint. They should get a room. He's either too cheap or scared the wife will see the missing money. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 All separations are not equal. A couple might decide its over and split up while the divorce is pending. Dating others in that circumstance is assumed by both H & W. Then there's the separation where the couple isn't sure where the relationship is going and are considering whether to try again or end the marriage. Dating during this kind of separation is dangerous even if the couple agrees that they are free to see other people. If they do reconcile at some point it could end up killing the reconciliation. There is also the case where the couple is separated but they are actively trying to reconcile. In this case they need to establish the rules as it applies to dating. If the agreement is no dating then if one of them does it anyway it is cheating. Bottom line is that rules about interacting with the opposite sex is part of every relationship. Engagement, wedding vows - any agreements when in a committed relationship are the rules for that couple. Breaking the rules is cheating. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 They are both cheating for they are both still married. Separated means they are not divorced. Not divorced means they are still married. I have seen too many marriages have recovery stall because even though there was the original affair or no affair they just separated and then dated, or both ways. For all that extra dating did was make the non dating spouse feel as they were cheated on. The dating spouse claiming well we were separated did nothing to lessen the pain to the non dating spouse during the separation. Then add there has been more WS's lying to their AP then there are sands on the beach that they were separated from there BS. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 That's pretty ballsy of her to ask you to use your house. Obviously you told her no and not to ask you again. I did tell her no, she took my no, and that is not the question I'm asking. The question is about where the line exists for an affair. she doesn't think this is an affair. She thinks, and he is helping her think, that he would be separated a year ago from the wife who betrayed him, if it weren't for financial constraints. The reason for my original post was to verify with others that this still counts as an affair. Even if he has a wife who said she was leaving, then didn't and the financial constraints are real. To drifter's point...my friend and her WH are separated with divorce papers filed. That legal process can take years. Meanwhile, they both agree that they are free to date and they both know the other is dating. No rules broken. As for his situation with his WW, I don't know them well enough to have any insight into that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 To drifter's point...my friend and her WH are separated with divorce papers filed. That legal process can take years. Meanwhile, they both agree that they are free to date and they both know the other is dating. No rules broken. As for his situation with his WW, I don't know them well enough to have any insight into that. When any party in a relationship is a secret, when theyare grown adults and one is HIDING it from their spouse, regardlessof whether they are in house separated, I'd call it an affair. I don't believe the divorce has to be finalised before dating. If both agree that the marriage is over and they are free agents, then it's absolutely fine IMO. If your friend is a secret from his wife, she's the OW. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Chi townD Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 To drifter's point...my friend and her WH are separated with divorce papers filed. That legal process can take years. Meanwhile, they both agree that they are free to date and they both know the other is dating. No rules broken. As for his situation with his WW, I don't know them well enough to have any insight into that. See, that's just an excuse. Bottomline, your friend is still married and I speculate that you're not getting the full story. If she told you that she's free to date whomever and BOTH have agreed to date others, then there would be absolutely no reason for her to use your place if she has a place of her own. My guess? she's afraid that her husband could drive by her place and see someone else's car there. Or his wife. Her reasoning for her to use your place isn't adding up. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
HereNorThere Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) In this case, the line between affair and relationship starts with the dishonesty. There's a reason they would "go ballastic" and that's that they aren't over. Even if it's one-sided, they still have a relationship. However, I'd bet every last dollar I have they are still sleeping together. When people are done, they are done. It's almost a relief to see the other one dating because you know they'll be leaving you alone. This couple isn't done. Not by a long shot. Edited May 5, 2015 by HereNorThere 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Lion Heart Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) I did tell her no, she took my no, and that is not the question I'm asking. The question is about where the line exists for an affair. she doesn't think this is an affair. She thinks, and he is helping her think, that he would be separated a year ago from the wife who betrayed him, if it weren't for financial constraints. The reason for my original post was to verify with others that this still counts as an affair. Even if he has a wife who said she was leaving, then didn't and the financial constraints are real. To drifter's point...my friend and her WH are separated with divorce papers filed. That legal process can take years. Meanwhile, they both agree that they are free to date and they both know the other is dating. No rules broken. As for his situation with his WW, I don't know them well enough to have any insight into that. Hi grapes, I thought instantly "ofcourse your friend is the OW" from your initial post. I understand that your gf IS in the process of D, IS living separately from her WH and she's also had "the talk" about how they are both free to date. So technically she's M but if all else is sorted and they're only awaiting final D papers then IMO she's free to date. Her WH could still have a hissy fit upon finding out she's met OM / MM, BUT if all ^^^^ is true then that's his problem. AS FOR THE MM he is a completely different kettle of fish. Has he filed for D, KNOWING as you say that it could take years for final D papers? I think not. Plus the fact he's still living in the marital home / possibly M bed AND financially dependent on his WH? Since he's lost his job? HE is still most definitely married. Not even separated. Your friend is crazy. She's become the OW. You could refer her to LS so she can, again, be enlightened to the facts of smoke screening, gaslighting etc with her new Wbf. Talk about jumping out of the pan and into the fire. If this MM is so confident his M is over, then why not introduce his new gf to his WW. My WH completely convinced his OW that our M was over too. I wish he had have told me! Sure we had separate finances, due to his business. We also had shared accounts as most M couples would. Sure he slept in the spare room when the kids got into our bed but I joined him! His half truths (complete deceptions) was all his very stupid OW needed to let rip. There were PLENTY of complete lies too. I wouldn't believe a word that came out of a MM man mouth when he's trying to get me in the sack while still living with his W. Men want sex! BSs do ponder a revenge A. I did! And I've never cheated. Being a good friend of long standing does entail giving them the truth, ESPECIALLY when they ask for your opinion. Give it to her straight. It might cause a rift but really, too bad, too sad! Gosh that sounds mean but I really couldn't support an A. All my friends know that. I don't think your friend sees the forest for the trees right now. Hopefully she'll wake up to herself before she's got a furious BW on her doorstep. Or yours. Look out for yourself. Take care. Lion Heart. Edited May 5, 2015 by Lion Heart 1 Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) The question is about where the line exists for an affair. she doesn't think this is an affair. She thinks, and he is helping her think, that he would be separated a year ago from the wife who betrayed him, if it weren't for financial constraints. ... they both agree that they are free to date and they both know the other is dating. No rules broken. Something fishy here. First, why is he "helping her think" about the circumstance? (so they can screw without impunity - fishy). Second, if they both know and agree that they can both date, why would the wife "go ballistic" if she found out? Anyway, you don't need to know what we think. Your friend needs to know what both spouses think and expect. Only they can say what would constitute infidelity at this point. That line is theirs to draw. His and hers. Here's what you purportedly 'know' (second-hand): - husband's summary of circumstances - husband's and wife's dating arrangement - husband's take on wife's reaction were she to find out he's dating Doesn't add up. Edited May 5, 2015 by merrmeade 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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