redflags in the rearview

[norudder]

Part of my healing was I created a list of reasons why I am better off without xmm. At first it was just to convince myself so I wouldn't contact. Now I see the truth of it. The list is up to 90 and the redflags I ignored are scary! Hed address his wife on the phone 'hello beautiful' because he knew she felt unattractive after chemo years ago and thought thats what she needed to hear. But then callously talk about how ugly her mastectomy scars and fake nipples were. I feel sick thinking about it now. When he brought up divorce she was upset (even though she had already suggested it a while ago) and he was just glad to get a reaction from her. He took pride in the kids siding with him when they argued in house. Poor kids! My ex and I don't argue in front of our kids at all. I told him to apologize for an insult he gave her once. He wouldnt have otherwise I'm sure. When he found a hotel bill and thought she was cheating too he bossed her into the bedroom and f****d her. I'm ashamed to admit I had sex in her house. The house she grew up in and was passed down to her. How horrible if she ever knew! And this is the marriage he wants to stay in. I think I was just a pawn in some dysfunctional revenge for him or something.

 

And I wanted to be with him!... because of the feelings. Those things should have disgusted me. They do now but its scary how blind I was. I saw it as passion for her and I was actually envious. Sick right? In a way I am relieved I didn't get what I had hoped for. I am very nervous about trusting myself to fall in love again.

Edited May 1, 2015 by norudder

[Grapesofwrath]

It is amazing how we can overlook or minimize things because of "the feelings." I've done this in legit relationships as well as in the A. It causes me to doubt my judgement with men, for sure. But in an A, it's worse, because the whole relationship rests on this lousy foundation that you feel you should never have allowed in the first place. You are brave for putting all this out there.

 

It's a tough thing...how he talks about the BS. On the one hand, you figure he must be unhappy with this person if he is betraying her this way. So one expects to hear some negative things, and hearing those can cause you to view the MM in a negative light because he sounds like such a jerk. On the other hand, if he just says nice things about the BW, you wonder why he is cheating on her? Another no-win aspect to being the OW. Never again.

 

I'm likewise ashamed to admit that, for the first few months, we would sleep together in the family house they have in the city. Turns out, the house is owned by BW's father and he had slept in that bed with BW many times. He would go into another room, every night, and call the BW for their nightly chat. Then come skipping out of the room and just go right back to whatever we were doing. Masterful compartmentalization. Ugh.

[nikki76]

I tot get you about the red flags. I have never written any down, but if I did, I would be up there close to your 90, I'm sure.

 

When we are in the A, we ignore these red flags. There are so many things mm did, that make me sick when I think about it. Like, right when we were done messing around, he called his wife and just had a normal conversation with her!! WTF!!!!

[nikki76]

It is amazing how we can overlook or minimize things because of "the feelings." I've done this in legit relationships as well as in the A. It causes me to doubt my judgement with men, for sure. But in an A, it's worse, because the whole relationship rests on this lousy foundation that you feel you should never have allowed in the first place. You are brave for putting all this out there.

 

It's a tough thing...how he talks about the BS. On the one hand, you figure he must be unhappy with this person if he is betraying her this way. So one expects to hear some negative things, and hearing those can cause you to view the MM in a negative light because he sounds like such a jerk. On the other hand, if he just says nice things about the BW, you wonder why he is cheating on her? Another no-win aspect to being the OW. Never again.

 

I'm likewise ashamed to admit that, for the first few months, we would sleep together in the family house they have in the city. Turns out, the house is owned by BW's father and he had slept in that bed with BW many times. He would go into another room, every night, and call the BW for their nightly chat. Then come skipping out of the room and just go right back to whatever we were doing. Masterful compartmentalization. Ugh.

 

Yep....same here. Two of the three times we were together, was in his house while his wife was out of town. Not in her bed upstairs, but in his pullout bed in the basement. Classy!!

Seriously, what the hell was I thinking?

[Ruffian1]

'hello beautiful' because he knew she felt unattractive after chemo years ago and thought thats what she needed to hear. But then callously talk about how ugly her mastectomy scars and fake nipples were.

Talk about a two-faced pig. And he is perfect in every way, unlike her?

 

 

Riiiiight.

 

 

You dodged a bullet me thinks

[Grapesofwrath]

'hello beautiful' because he knew she felt unattractive after chemo years ago and thought thats what she needed to hear. But then callously talk about how ugly her mastectomy scars and fake nipples were.

 

I think that kind of behavior is the worst nightmare scenario for any woman who has survived mastectomy & reconstruction. That her "loving" husband really thinks this of her. This is just sadistic.

[norudder]

I think that kind of behavior is the worst nightmare scenario for any woman who has survived mastectomy & reconstruction. That her "loving" husband really thinks this of her. This is just sadistic.

 

 

I agree. Part of me thought he was being altruistic towards her feelings at the same time I was flattered that I was privy to his true thoughts. But look at what those thoughts were. And what were the thoughts about me he kept to himself? It was a good match for the time being as I had a streak of emotional masochism I needed to work out.

 

I hope other women's husbands are genuine in their ability to see their true beauty.

[Hope Shimmers]

I think that kind of behavior is the worst nightmare scenario for any woman who has survived mastectomy & reconstruction. That her "loving" husband really thinks this of her. This is just sadistic.

 

What a complete prick.

 

Short of wishing on him a deadly disease, let's just say that I hope karma comes along and bites him someplace where it's really visible. Like his manhood.

[Ifalltopieces]

I've ignored MANY red flags as well, but lately I'm starting to make less excuses for them and I'm starting to see them for what they truly are. It's hard to admit to yourself that you were such a horrific judge of character. It's also hard to admit that you could fall for such sadistic trickery.

 

It's good to see that you found the strength to break free from the MM hold. I hope and pray my day is coming....good luck to you.

[norudder]

I've ignored MANY red flags as well, but lately I'm starting to make less excuses for them and I'm starting to see them for what they truly are. It's hard to admit to yourself that you were such a horrific judge of character. It's also hard to admit that you could fall for such sadistic trickery.

 

It's good to see that you found the strength to break free from the MM hold. I hope and pray my day is coming....good luck to you.

 

Getting to this point was not easy. I still have to redirect my thoughts sometimes when I think about wanting those good feelings. The chemical cocktail messed with my neural wiring. But it'd be impossible to go back and have them the same way with the same person or type of person. I had to change. And I couldn't force it. I really wanted to though. Counseling helped with not letting emotions be the primary drive for me. You'll get there when you're ready. Nobody can love you better than you.

[Grapesofwrath]

I agree. Part of me thought he was being altruistic towards her feelings at the same time I was flattered that I was privy to his true thoughts. But look at what those thoughts were. And what were the thoughts about me he kept to himself? It was a good match for the time being as I had a streak of emotional masochism I needed to work out.

 

I hope other women's husbands are genuine in their ability to see their true beauty.

 

This reminds me of an episode in my family history that still turns my stomach: My aunt (my mother's sister) was dying of breast cancer. As she lay literally on her death bed, in her home, her husband had sex with her home care provider. In the next room. She could hear them.

[Grapesofwrath]

Getting to this point was not easy. I still have to redirect my thoughts sometimes when I think about wanting those good feelings. The chemical cocktail messed with my neural wiring. But it'd be impossible to go back and have them the same way with the same person or type of person. I had to change. And I couldn't force it. I really wanted to though. Counseling helped with not letting emotions be the primary drive for me. You'll get there when you're ready. Nobody can love you better than you.

 

This is wisdom. Those emotions are associated with powerful chemicals that mess with your mind. Your decision-making and your critical thinking go right down the toilet. When you're ready, you will make the change. I'm not sure how you "get ready," but it can happen.

 

I am, right now, so thankful for that little inflamed appendix. It set me free.

[Popsicle]

Part of my healing was I created a list of reasons why I am better off without xmm. At first it was just to convince myself so I wouldn't contact. Now I see the truth of it. The list is up to 90 and the redflags I ignored are scary! Hed address his wife on the phone 'hello beautiful' because he knew she felt unattractive after chemo years ago and thought thats what she needed to hear. But then callously talk about how ugly her mastectomy scars and fake nipples were. I feel sick thinking about it now. When he brought up divorce she was upset (even though she had already suggested it a while ago) and he was just glad to get a reaction from her. He took pride in the kids siding with him when they argued in house. Poor kids! My ex and I don't argue in front of our kids at all. I told him to apologize for an insult he gave her once. He wouldnt have otherwise I'm sure. When he found a hotel bill and thought she was cheating too he bossed her into the bedroom and f****d her. I'm ashamed to admit I had sex in her house. The house she grew up in and was passed down to her. How horrible if she ever knew! And this is the marriage he wants to stay in. I think I was just a pawn in some dysfunctional revenge for him or something.

 

And no doubt, he thinks he loves his wife too...

[Popsicle]

I never ignored the red flags I saw, for example, the lying, which is why I never wanted to be with xMM full-time. I often wondered if his W even picked up that he lied (he lied often and about many things not even having to do with A's). I think she was a bit daft, and that is what he needs.

[GoldieLox]

I saw the red flags almost immediately; I just tried to make excuses for them. I tried to justify everything, which is so unlike me. Hindsight really is everything.

[norudder]

And no doubt, he thinks he loves his wife too...

 

Yep. He does. When we talked about infatuation vs attachment etc he said maybe there are 50 shades of love. I think I'll pass on his ideas of love.

[Ifalltopieces]

I saw the red flags almost immediately; I just tried to make excuses for them. I tried to justify everything, which is so unlike me. Hindsight really is everything.

 

It's amazing how most of us who find ourselves wrapped up in these A's are not weak individuals. I was never the kind of woman that allowed a man to treat me this way and I certainly wouldn't have ever condoned or accepted being lied to time after time. I wish I knew what triggered the switch inside me. If I could figure that out, maybe I could reclaim my life, my self respect and some happiness....

[GirlStillStrong]

Don't be so hard on yourself (I do it too). We think "I should have known, I should have been smarter, there's something wrong with me for not being able to see the truth, I'm broken and will never be able to choose the right kind of guy." When the truth of the matter is, we likely had sex with them early on, which produced all sorts of chemicals in our brains that no one has any control over. They distort the way we see things, bond us to people we should not be bonding to, make us believe there is some happily ever after with this person. It's pretty well documented that those chemically induced feelings last for a year or two (and cloud our vision). If we were to wait long enough, a year or more, we would be able to make better decisions. We would give ourselves time to see the person for who they really are. And it is difficult to see someone when they hide the truth.

 

What you describe is dysfunctional, selfish, and immature. He does not love her. She made the mistake of marrying that and now she is stuck with him.

 

Forgive yourself. Give yourself a break. Because not doing so only serves to keep you mired in HIS dysfunction. Own your sexuality. Own your decisions. Ask forgiveness from your higher power, whomever or whatever your higher power may be), and move on. Don't give this man one more minute of your time, one more iota of space in your brain. You are only human, and humans make mistakes.

[Blu72]

Maybe the true red flags are the ones about ourselves. Because in the end it's "our" red flags that should have stopped us from getting in these messes. Just food for thought.

[norudder]

Don't be so hard on yourself (I do it too). We think "I should have known, I should have been smarter, there's something wrong with me for not being able to see the truth, I'm broken and will never be able to choose the right kind of guy." When the truth of the matter is, we likely had sex with them early on, which produced all sorts of chemicals in our brains that no one has any control over. They distort the way we see things, bond us to people we should not be bonding to, make us believe there is some happily ever after with this person. It's pretty well documented that those chemically induced feelings last for a year or two (and cloud our vision). If we were to wait long enough, a year or more, we would be able to make better decisions. We would give ourselves time to see the person for who they really are. And it is difficult to see someone when they hide the truth.

 

What you describe is dysfunctional, selfish, and immature. He does not love her. She made the mistake of marrying that and now she is stuck with him.

 

Forgive yourself. Give yourself a break. Because not doing so only serves to keep you mired in HIS dysfunction. Own your sexuality. Own your decisions. Ask forgiveness from your higher power, whomever or whatever your higher power may be), and move on. Don't give this man one more minute of your time, one more iota of space in your brain. You are only human, and humans make mistakes.

 

So smart true and kind.

[norudder]

Maybe the true red flags are the ones about ourselves. Because in the end it's "our" red flags that should have stopped us from getting in these messes. Just food for thought.

 

Yes.

I wish the sex w my xh had given me the same excuse to be blind to his red flags but I ignored them without the perk of the limerance stage. I'm the common denominator and needed to 'fix my picker'. For me this has meant changing how I feel about myself to be more positive so I will be with a man who treats me positively.

 

I feel bad they are each choosing to stay in that dynamic, she's as stuck as she wants to be. But that's a journey they each have to make on their own and its one I'm no longer envious of.

Edited May 2, 2015 by norudder

[GirlStillStrong]

Yes.

I wish the sex w my xh had given me the same excuse to be blind to his red flags but I ignored them without the perk of the limerance stage. I'm the common denominator and needed to 'fix my picker'. For me this has meant changing how I feel about myself to be more positive so I will be with a man who treats me positively.

 

I feel bad they are each choosing to stay in that dynamic but that's a journey they each have to make on their own and its one I'm no longer envious of.

I have heard so many women say they have a broken picker, it's ridiculous. IDK whether or not it is true. I think to a certain degree it is self-esteem that causes us to choose people who make us feel good about ourselves. But I know I have done every single thing I know of to work on my self-esteem; I have accomplished A LOT on my own, and still I fall for guys who are not good. I think all people need other people who make us feel good about ourselves, low self esteem or not. And I believe many people tell you what they think you want to or need to hear, some more than others, and some with selfish intentions. I do not think you have a broken picker. I think you just made a bad decision.

 

Remember, too, these guys who cheat also have their own chemical processes going on in their brains that cause them to do (and say) things that lead us to believe there is a future with them. I think people, in general, are dissatisfied with marriage, disillusioned when it turns out to be something other than what they wanted or expected, and they seek out an alternative, something to make them feel better.

 

Everywhere I look, people are struggling. It is best to learn from the mistake and try not to make it again. As a general rule, it is best not to get involved with a married man, regardless of what he says about being separated, wanting to be separated, how unhappy he is, how horrible or crazy his wife is. Best to have a strong life of your own and when you encounter a married man, leave him be. My rule has been never to get involved with a married man, even if he is separated and especially if there are young children involved. But I made an exception this time because he said they had separated before, tried reconciliation that was not working, and was in the process of separating again, and does not want to continue his marriage. Bad decision.

 

Sorry if I got off topic, just wanted to share. Be kind to yourself. You're not broken; you just made a bad decision.

[scatterd]

Love is blind and we want to think we can trust the person were with. I have found out there was red flags with my husband that I ignored but I thought all together he was a good person. Wow he ended up having more flaws then I thought you find out how loyal a person is when you get ill and cant do everything for them. I am wondering if its about what you can do for a person rather then who you are to them. My trust is pretty much nil now days after what husband has put me through.

[Popsicle]

I am wondering if its about what you can do for a person rather then who you are to them.

 

Sometimes it is, when you're dealing with a wounded person.

 

That's not always the case with everyone though. That's why you have to make sure that someone SHOWS you that they love you. Shows you that they love who you are. This is separate/different from them loving what you do from them or how you make them feel.

[GirlStillStrong]

Yeah, I think most people think in terms of what one relationship or another does for them. But when you marry someone, I think you assume that the other person wants the same things as you (to be together, to be a family) or at least that they are saying they will be loyal and committed for the rest of their life. I've never found people to be reliable enough to deliver on that kind of promise though. Plus, people change. I am not the same person I was 20 years ago. I can't imagine being with the same person for 20 years. I imagine I would get bored LOL