redflags in the rearview

[georgia girl]

Yes.

I wish the sex w my xh had given me the same excuse to be blind to his red flags but I ignored them without the perk of the limerance stage. I'm the common denominator and needed to 'fix my picker'. For me this has meant changing how I feel about myself to be more positive so I will be with a man who treats me positively.

 

I feel bad they are each choosing to stay in that dynamic, she's as stuck as she wants to be. But that's a journey they each have to make on their own and its one I'm no longer envious of.

 

This resonated with me. I pride myself on being a very hard worker and a creative problem solver. Then, I would wonder why I chose men with who couldn't give to me what I needed to feel safe and secure. It was awful.

 

When I met my husband, he was so good to me and so reliable that I nearly rejected him. Instead, I decided to stay in the game although it was too easy for me. Surely something that wonderful requires more work, I thought. It didn't. When I finally have up this idea that it had to be hard so I could somehow prove myself through work and creativity, I fell in love.

 

Maybe that's a little what folks mean when they say they have a bad picker? That you instinctively trust in something that plays into your wheelhouse, even if it's the last thing you should go for.

[norudder]

I have heard so many women say they have a broken picker, it's ridiculous. IDK whether or not it is true. I think to a certain degree it is self-esteem that causes us to choose people who make us feel good about ourselves. But I know I have done every single thing I know of to work on my self-esteem; I have accomplished A LOT on my own, and still I fall for guys who are not good. I think all people need other people who make us feel good about ourselves, low self esteem or not. And I believe many people tell you what they think you want to or need to hear, some more than others, and some with selfish intentions. I do not think you have a broken picker. I think you just made a bad decision.

 

Remember, too, these guys who cheat also have their own chemical processes going on in their brains that cause them to do (and say) things that lead us to believe there is a future with them. I think people, in general, are dissatisfied with marriage, disillusioned when it turns out to be something other than what they wanted or expected, and they seek out an alternative, something to make them feel better.

 

Everywhere I look, people are struggling. It is best to learn from the mistake and try not to make it again. As a general rule, it is best not to get involved with a married man, regardless of what he says about being separated, wanting to be separated, how unhappy he is, how horrible or crazy his wife is. Best to have a strong life of your own and when you encounter a married man, leave him be. My rule has been never to get involved with a married man, even if he is separated and especially if there are young children involved. But I made an exception this time because he said they had separated before, tried reconciliation that was not working, and was in the process of separating again, and does not want to continue his marriage. Bad decision.

 

Sorry if I got off topic, just wanted to share. Be kind to yourself. You're not broken; you just made a bad decision.

 

Interesting thought. Thanks for sharing. That's what I'm afraid of happening, my self esteem will improve but I'll end up with same type of guy. I think its like you said though, more than esteem, more than an intuitive 'picker', more than how they make us feel, its a DECISION about how we behave and what choices we make that culminate our existence. It requires living with constant awareness of our motives. If you aren't used to it, its hard!

 

For me, I'll be slower with the feelings. Or if behaviors come out afterwards, I know as much as it sucks I can choose to not continue that relationship.

 

People do change though. My exh didn't change his behavior I changed my acceptance level. Could be said that wasn't fair to him. But I think marriage should accommodate for growth. Its not a contract to promise to always stay the same.

Edited May 2, 2015 by norudder

[GirlStillStrong]

... its a DECISION about how we behave and what choices we make that culminate our existence. It requires living with constant awareness of our motives.

Good point. Thank you. I needed this reminder. I got all wrapped up in the feelings being together with MM brought, the person I became because of being with him, and the hopes and dreams for this blissful future I was certain we would have together, forgetting that here is a whole 'nother person with all sorts of issues, motivations, and psyche (not to mention LIFE with someone else), all of which he needs to address. What was I thinking??? It really has totally screwed up my life. I was in such a good position before we started, although I'm certain I was not 100% happy with the way my life was. I wish I had never started it; it's so hard to get back to that place

[GoldieLox]

It's amazing how most of us who find ourselves wrapped up in these A's are not weak individuals. I was never the kind of woman that allowed a man to treat me this way and I certainly wouldn't have ever condoned or accepted being lied to time after time. I wish I knew what triggered the switch inside me. If I could figure that out, maybe I could reclaim my life, my self respect and some happiness....

 

A year later and it still baffles me. I'm a real type-A personality. The day a let someone walk all over me is the day I might as well lay down in the middle of the road and let a car strike me... but I did it. For nearly a year, I let him treat me terrible. I tried to minimize it, even when those around me kept saying "Goldie, he's treating you like s#%t". I refused to see it clearly, because in my mind, it was still "No no, he's just doing that because A, B and C. He's still this wonderful guy. He must not realize it". And to this day, I'm not sure he quite realizes the impact of the way he treated me.

 

It's water under the bridge, I guess. It's time to fix myself and realize what made me get to this point. His crap is his crap now.

[GirlStillStrong]

A year later and it still baffles me. I'm a real type-A personality. The day a let someone walk all over me is the day I might as well lay down in the middle of the road and let a car strike me... but I did it. For nearly a year, I let him treat me terrible. I tried to minimize it, even when those around me kept saying "Goldie, he's treating you like s#%t". I refused to see it clearly, because in my mind, it was still "No no, he's just doing that because A, B and C. He's still this wonderful guy. He must not realize it". And to this day, I'm not sure he quite realizes the impact of the way he treated me.

 

It's water under the bridge, I guess. It's time to fix myself and realize what made me get to this point. His crap is his crap now.

 

Honestly? Every time I get involved with somebody, I wind up thinking how I really just need to keep people OUT of my life, live completely alone, no relationship, because all they seem to do is screw up my life. They distract me from what is important to me, do not listen to what I tell them I want or need in a relationship, and expect me to adjust my life to theirs and cater to THEIR needs. There's a quote in the bible that says something like "Bad associations spoil useful habits," and of course I blame myself, tell myself that my boundaries are too weak, that my picker is broken, that I should have known better to let this kind of person into my life. But I really believe that quote because I've let so many people into my life who just mess everything up for me. Every single time I have to re-build from scratch and they just walk away leaving me with the mess to clean up! Is it just me? Is there something wrong with me?

[GoldieLox]

Honestly? Every time I get involved with somebody, I wind up thinking how I really just need to keep people OUT of my life, live completely alone, no relationship, because all they seem to do is screw up my life. They distract me from what is important to me, do not listen to what I tell them I want or need in a relationship, and expect me to adjust my life to theirs and cater to THEIR needs. There's a quote in the bible that says something like "Bad associations spoil useful habits," and of course I blame myself, tell myself that my boundaries are too weak, that my picker is broken, that I should have known better to let this kind of person into my life. But I really believe that quote because I've let so many people into my life who just mess everything up for me. Every single time I have to re-build from scratch and they just walk away leaving me with the mess to clean up! Is it just me? Is there something wrong with me?

 

Have you ever gone to therapy to address these issues? Not that therapy is the end-all-be-all of everything, but when we start to see a pattern of attracting $hitty people into our lives, unfortunately most of it does have to do with us.

[Owl6118]

Gently, just because somehow it never has come up anywhere in the thread yet:

 

The first red flag was and always is the married part.

 

It's more than a red flag: it's a giant, reflective, illuminated, publicly-specified, universally acknowledged Do Not Enter sign.

 

The picker question is important. But another aspect of the picker question is the one so obvious--how did your brain let you just--fuzz out, not see, ignore, exempt yourself from--the giant Do Not Enter sign? Alas, it's also the first one you train yourself not to ever really see if you get involved with a married person.

 

Because really, from the beginning, you know your affair partner is a broken person at best. It's all in the Giant Sign. Non broken people respect their own giant Do Not Enter sign, and don't try to persuade other people that it is not there, or doesn't mean what is clearly printed on it, or doesn't apply to you even if it applies to everyone else, or other similar hornswaggle.

[Ifalltopieces]

A year later and it still baffles me. I'm a real type-A personality. The day a let someone walk all over me is the day I might as well lay down in the middle of the road and let a car strike me... but I did it. For nearly a year, I let him treat me terrible. I tried to minimize it, even when those around me kept saying "Goldie, he's treating you like s#%t". I refused to see it clearly, because in my mind, it was still "No no, he's just doing that because A, B and C. He's still this wonderful guy. He must not realize it". And to this day, I'm not sure he quite realizes the impact of the way he treated me.

 

It's water under the bridge, I guess. It's time to fix myself and realize what made me get to this point. His crap is his crap now.

 

I can relate...I continue to make excuses for my MM's behavior. I often wonder myself if they ever stop to realize exactly how terrible they make us feel. Do you think there is ever a time when they feel guilty for the things they put us through? Not that it matters...but I'm curious. I would like to think that it crosses their minds at some point but then again, that's just wishful thinking and another way to convince myself he isn't a monster.

 

At least you finally had the strength and courage to break it off....

[GoldieLox]

I can relate...I continue to make excuses for my MM's behavior. I often wonder myself if they ever stop to realize exactly how terrible they make us feel. Do you think there is ever a time when they feel guilty for the things they put us through? Not that it matters...but I'm curious. I would like to think that it crosses their minds at some point but then again, that's just wishful thinking and another way to convince myself he isn't a monster.

 

At least you finally had the strength and courage to break it off....

 

To be fair, I broke it off only the first time. He broke it off the second time, ending it for good. I'd like to think my strength and courage came from telling my husband and committing to being a better wife and trying to fix my marriage.

 

I was stuck on that notion for months... do they realize, did they ever hurt in the slightest, did they ever cry just a little? It made it even harder that I work with xMM and he still occasionally pops into my line of vision, walking in the parking lot, down a distant hallway... looking just fine and wonderful. He slipped back into his Leave It To Beaver life like it was nothing. I had to finally stop caring. What's done is done, over is over. I still wonder occasionally, but it wasn't the obsessive thought it used to be. I think I'm slowly on the road to indifference.

[ttfn555]

I was stuck on that notion for months... do they realize, did they ever hurt in the slightest, did they ever cry just a little? It made it even harder that I work with xMM and he still occasionally pops into my line of vision, walking in the parking lot, down a distant hallway... looking just fine and wonderful. He slipped back into his Leave It To Beaver life like it was nothing. I had to finally stop caring. What's done is done, over is over. I still wonder occasionally, but it wasn't the obsessive thought it used to be. I think I'm slowly on the road to indifference.

 

I think this is a very good question, do they realize the hurt they have caused the OW/OM? Especially if they have been "negligent" with the true state of their marriage? Many MM and MW don't tell the truth about their marriage and make all sorts of promises and then break them and go back to their perfect little lives. Yet so many people say that the AP deserves this somehow...

[norudder]

Gently, just because somehow it never has come up anywhere in the thread yet:

 

The first red flag was and always is the married part.

 

It's more than a red flag: it's a giant, reflective, illuminated, publicly-specified, universally acknowledged Do Not Enter sign.

 

The picker question is important. But another aspect of the picker question is the one so obvious--how did your brain let you just--fuzz out, not see, ignore, exempt yourself from--the giant Do Not Enter sign? Alas, it's also the first one you train yourself not to ever really see if you get involved with a married person.

 

Because really, from the beginning, you know your affair partner is a broken person at best. It's all in the Giant Sign. Non broken people respect their own giant Do Not Enter sign, and don't try to persuade other people that it is not there, or doesn't mean what is clearly printed on it, or doesn't apply to you even if it applies to everyone else, or other similar hornswaggle.

 

I understand your point. However, I was married too but eventually confronted my issues and my M and came clean so I had diminishing tolerance for his inability to do the same. Of course I'm trying to see it in the larger context instead of taking it personally that he might be emotional disabled.

[GypsumSatellite]

Did you date my MM, norudder? Kidding. The tales I could tell. How easy it was to shrug things off because I'm one of those "give too many chances/can rationalize most things" people. There are some things we did in the earlier portion of the R that really gross me out and make me mad now. I'm not sure why I was so blinded to not recognize how much of a middle finger he was waving to not only his W but to his kids, me, and...well, anything he could have ever held sacred. He eventually stopped being a massive red flag waving person, but the damage was done.

 

No one ever says what's normal for an EMR. It's not like there's a handbook, you know? You get into the A, feel your way around, and for the unlucky of us - find out it's not supposed to be an abusive mindbend until it's far too late.

 

If there was ever a time I wanted to compare notes with his W and just ask her "Hey, does he treat you okay? Are you afraid to leave? Do you feel controlled?"

 

Because, honestly? If he was odd with me and he told stories about similar behavior with exes, he has definitely done these things to his wife.