NC Journey Begins

[ravfour4]

Well, then. She finally gave a bs response to when I can get that bday thing - maybe next week - I forget about her and start getting ready for some live music I'm excited for tonight.

 

I check my phone, she asks if I'm going. I say yeah, you? She said she's still deciding. I obviously don't respond. She then says she's going because she had a terrible week.

 

So weird. Still interested in the psychology behind her actions - she so clearly doesn't want me in any sort of romantic way and is supposedly happy with the new guy, but....she had a terrible bday and is now going to a concert that I'll be at that he'd never go to? Why is she having so much trouble letting go of me given her prior actions? Why is she doing things that would make her new guy mad? (Rhetorical unless you think you actually have a meaningful answer)

[mightycpa]

I am curious why her bday is such a meaningful event for you. You are clearly not indifferent. You sound spiteful, which might be the last emotion before indifference, but indifference, no.

 

Forgive, forget, move on. Don't you have better things to do?

[ravfour4]

I just figured it'd be the last I ever heard from her since her new guy would try to do something awesome, but instead she texted me first thing the morning after when she didn't even have to work and now she's telling me how ****ty her week was and is trying to meet up with me at a concert.

[Downtown]

Hey Downtown, can you check out my NC Journey begins thread? I think my ex is BPD, especially with how she treated the rebound she hopped to right after me (3 recycles already with him). Id be interested to hear your very educated opinion.

It's interesting that you should ask, RAV4 (aka, "Toyota"). I've been following your posts since April, at which time I wrote 5 or 6 paragraphs responding to your first few posts. Before submitting that response, however, I deleted it because I took time to read your other remarks -- posted during the last two weeks of April -- about how "great" the first four years had been with her, how only the last 3 months had been bad, and how it was all your fault because you had been neglecting her badly. Sure did not sound like a potential BPD issue to me when I got to those posts.

 

I was very surprised, then, when you suddenly declared on May 7 that you believed she has strong BPD traits. I would have joined the discussion then but, from your comments, I could tell that you had already read a lot about it and had participated on several BPD forums. I also liked the advice given to you by Simon, Lizard, and Dumbass. Those three guys have the patience of Job. I mention all this to explain why I never participated in your two threads despite my interest.

 

She has a lot of the [bPD] traits (black/white thinking, constant strong fluctuating emotions that dictate her actions rather than logic, inability to say why she feels the way she does, huge fear of being alone - hence continually flip flopping btwn me and this guy and never spending a single day alone).

RAV4, I agree with you that the behaviors you describe for your 25-year-old exGF are warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Specifically, the event-triggered irrational anger, fear of abandonment, black-white thinking, repeated cycle of push-away and pull-back, emotional instability, hating to be alone, lack of impulse control, rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you), and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD.

 

I caution, however, that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder. This means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We ALL do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to recognize because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Although you are capable of spotting strong BPD warning signs, you are not able to determine whether those behavioral traits are so strong and persistent as to satisfy 100% of the diagnostic criteria for "having full-blown BPD." You thus cannot diagnose her issues. Only a professional can do that. Hence, if you really want to know whether she "has BPD," I would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you have been dealing with.

 

Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid repeating the painful experience -- i.e., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like the one you left (if she has strong BPD traits). I therefore suggest you take a look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of them sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of these warning signs at my posts in Rebel's Thread. (These are the same two links you saw in Confusedbythisgirl's thread.) I also suggest you read Schreiber's Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved? If those descriptions ring many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, RAV4.

[ravfour4]

She showed a lot of the signs during the relationship as well, the reason I eventually distanced myself was because she was acting out emotionally but when I asked her why, she never had a single thing to say besides I don't know. It drove me crazy and I eventually pushed her away.

 

Tonight was very odd. She told me things were weird with the other guy and she was there with a new guy from work, she was very friendly with me and texted me when she left, telling me she hated her current living situation and that her bday sucked. I was grinding with 4 or 5 different women throughout the course of the night and I tried to be respectful and hide it from her, but she may have seen it.

 

It's ridiculous to think that she's been putting me through so much drama over guy A, when after just a week of being left alone with him she is now at a concert with guy B and hanging out with me. She's lost her damn mind. She was always incredibly emotionally unstable in our relationship, there were literally times where she acted exactly like a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum, but she was (as far as I could tell) very loyal.

 

From what I hear, BPD mimic their partner and that is very true of my ex. She went from an abusive heavy drug user (1st bf), to a narcissistic body obsessed person (2nd bf), to a friendly and very successful at work woman (when she was with me) to an insecure compulsive liar (with 3rd guy, aka mr still married). She also fled when we started looking at a house, when things were about to get even more serious.

 

The first four years were great because I was incredibly caring and understanding, but not overwhelmingly consuming. I felt like I balanced her out, she seemed like a totally different person before and after me, a worse person in my opinion. I'm proud to have had a good relationship with a BPDer for so long, from what I've read that is very difficult.

 

After she broke up with me she blamed for me for everything and acted like our relationship was nothing but terrible. A week or so after the break up all of a sudden I was a better person, because me being terrible was just her reflecting how she felt about herself on me.

Edited June 19, 2015 by ravfour4

[Downtown]

RAV4, I believe you will find the Schreiber article (cited above in my post) very insightful. It is not about BPDers but, rather, those of us who believe we are very attracted to them. Schreiber explains why we are willing to stay in such toxic relationships for months (as in your case) or even many years (as in my case). The latter half of her article is the best part so please be patient when reading it.

[ravfour4]

Very interesting. Some of that article certainly rings a bell. Seeing her last night screwed me up a bit more than I thought it would. She used the same tactics she always does to reel me in "my life stinks" "I'm unhappy" "I hate my living situation", when I hear those things I want to "save" her and see it as a cry for help. Why tell me these things unless you want me to fix them or unless you want sympathy? Why text me at 2 am saying you hate your place...if another girl did that to me it would translate to "invite me over", but I know that's not the case with her.

 

The one thing that seems unique about my story compared to others on here is that she keeps coming back to me (not romantically, obviously) in one way or another. Other's ex's seem to give them the cold shoulder once they move on. I'm not sure if it's because of my stubborn persistence, if it's a testament to the quality of our relationship when it was good or if it's just because she wants my emotional support because the new guy just isn't fulfilling that need.

 

Then again, the first time we ever met, she danced with her ex for a bit and when we saw him she was always friendly - despite hating on him behind his back. It was just weird last night, I danced with 4 or 5 girls and even made out with 2 of them, all who were 7.5-8 or above, but it just felt empty. I wanted to be dancing with her.

Edited June 19, 2015 by ravfour4

[Simon Phoenix]

Very interesting. Some of that article certainly rings a bell. Seeing her last night screwed me up a bit more than I thought it would. She used the same tactics she always does to reel me in "my life stinks" "I'm unhappy" "I hate my living situation", when I hear those things I want to "save" her and see it as a cry for help. Why tell me these things unless you want me to fix them or unless you want sympathy? Why text me at 2 am saying you hate your place...if another girl did that to me it would translate to "invite me over", but I know that's not the case with her.

 

The one thing that seems unique about my story compared to others on here is that she keeps coming back to me (not romantically, obviously) in one way or another. Other's ex's seem to give them the cold shoulder once they move on. I'm not sure if it's because of my stubborn persistence, if it's a testament to the quality of our relationship when it was good or if it's just because she wants my emotional support because the new guy just isn't fulfilling that need.

 

Then again, the first time we ever met, she danced with her ex for a bit and when we saw him she was always friendly - despite hating on him behind his back. It was just weird last night, I danced with 4 or 5 girls and even made out with 2 of them, all who were 7.5-8 or above, but it just felt empty. I wanted to be dancing with her.

 

This is exactly why we've been telling you to cut off contact COMPLETELY. There's too much history, too much emotion, too many feelings there for you to be in contact, much less a friend, with her right now. You keep trying to deny this, and you keep getting stuck in these places. Recovering from a relationship is hard enough with No Contact -- what you are doing is lunacy and making it infinitely more difficult. And yes, I said I was out, but dude, we're not saying this to be d-cks. We're saying it because we've been through it.

 

You're literally making this a hundred times harder than it has to be, and it's already hard. You don't get points for degree of difficulty in recovery, which is why I'm flabbergasted at your indignant refusal to go No Contact. She can't "reel you in" if you don't answer and she certainly can't do it if you don't keep contacting and pushing for contact. Seriously man, it's a broken record with you. And I'm sure you'll try to spin it again rather than taking the steps to move forward. And no, her "coming back to you" for support is not unique -- it's relatively common actually. Your situation is not a unique snowflake, no matter how much you want it to be.

 

Stop trying to be the hero and stop trying to put on a front. Breakups hurt, they suck, stop lying to yourself and projecting a false front to others. Going No Contact doesn't mean she won -- it means that you have the common sense and intelligence to realize that you need to recover.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Simon Phoenix

[JewelD]

This is exactly why we've been telling you to cut off contact COMPLETELY. There's too much history, too much emotion, too many feelings there. You keep trying to deny this, and you keep getting stuck in these places. Recovering from a relationship is hard enough with No Contact -- what you are doing is lunacy and making it infinitely more difficult. And yes, I said I was out, but dude, we're not saying this to be d-cks. We're saying it because we've been through it.

 

You're literally making this a hundred times harder than it has to be, and it's already hard. You don't get points for degree of difficulty in recovery, which is why I'm flabbergasted at your indignant refusal to go No Contact. She can't "reel you in" if you don't answer and she certainly can't do it if you don't keep contacting and pushing for contact. Seriously man, it's a broken record with you. And I'm sure you'll try to spin it again rather than taking the steps to move forward.

 

Stop trying to be the hero and stop trying to put on a front. Breakups hurt, they suck, stop lying to yourself and projecting a false front to others. Going No Contact doesn't mean she won -- it means that you have the common sense and intelligence to realize that you need to recover.

 

Wow. This is exactly what's wrong with these boards. Who are you to chastise someone for not following your advice and thinking for themselves? I just don't don't see why people on here get so upset about situations that don't even effect them.

 

If you know breakups are hard, why put any extra pressure or stress on people expressing themselves? Did you listen to everybody's advice when you went through it? If it happened again, I bet you still wouldn't.

 

If it's a broken record for him, what is it to people who spend years floating around a breakup message board surrounded by other people's stories of pain and misery repeating the same advice? You have not had every relationship in the world. For all we really know, you could have never had any.

 

I swear some of you people act like you're somebody's therapist. If advice is asked, offer it. If they don't want to take it, leave it alone and move about your day. The only lunacy is coming from your end.

[na49]

Who wants popcorn? This is going to be good..

[Simon Phoenix]

Who wants popcorn? This is going to be good..

 

Nah, not worth it. Not sure why she's angry and thinks people giving advice are miserable losers, but she's right in the fact that it's up to him whether or not he wants to take whatever advice is given. Didn't express it very well, but I can't really say every post I've made on this site has been expressed very well either.

 

Ultimately I want ravfour to get past this rut he's in and I don't want him making mistakes I've made in the past. I will disagree with one thing she said -- I don't ignore advice on sites like this when I'm in the muck, probably because I come to sites like this when I realize that whatever perspective and research I might have had was wrong or I wanted a second opinion.

[ravfour4]

I've accepted that we're broken up, but it's hard to want to chase other women rather than her. NC would probably help, but I still like the attention from her, plus it feels like some sweet revenge knowing that she's doing it behind this other guy's back and if he knows, it's probably driving him crazy (since he flipped a **** in the past when he knew she was seeing or talking to me).

 

I'm still focusing on myself, I'm more physically fit than ever, I'm meeting new people, I'm reading more, reconnecting with old friends and moving forward at work - I just feel that life would be a bit better with her. I acknowledge the mistakes I made and she made some massive ones herself that most on here would say are unforgivable, but I've been missing her some (obviously) and she keeps giving me "my life sucks" bread crumbs - it's like then what the hell are you doing then, just come hang out.

 

When she first started dating me, she ruthlessly told her ex that I was the one she was going to marry. She also cut other ex's out of her life and never wanted to see them - when she did she dreaded it. Our connection was different, it's evident by my stupid inability to forget about her and her inability to stop talking to me and to continually say nothing positive about this new guy she's with.

 

If she was on cloud 9, she wouldn't be reaching out to her ex that made her so "miserable" to hangout, mention that she's driving by our old places and that its weird and making fun of him to me. If she was on cloud 9, she'd be staying there.

[Simon Phoenix]

At the risk of offending JewelD again, I'm posting.

 

I've accepted that we're broken up, but it's hard to want to chase other women rather than her.

 

This is a completely normal feeling. You probably shouldn't chase any women, including her, right now. I've gone on hookup streaks after breakups and after the initial high it makes you feel worse because you're naturally going to compare. You're better off being alone for a bit and really coming to terms with everything than trying to just throw a bandage on. It doesn't have to be for forever, but you need to decompress a bit.

 

NC would probably help, but I still like the attention from her, plus it feels like some sweet revenge knowing that she's doing it behind this other guy's back and if he knows, it's probably driving him crazy (since he flipped a **** in the past when he knew she was seeing or talking to me).

 

Revenge on who? Him? He's not the one who broke up with you. Plus, it's bad karma man. How would you like it if you dated a girl who talked to her ex behind your back, even if she wasn't hooking up with him? I get the ego boost, but is it really worth the mental anguish? I wouldn't think so, but that's your call.

 

I'm still focusing on myself, I'm more physically fit than ever, I'm meeting new people, I'm reading more, reconnecting with old friends and moving forward at work

 

This is all great stuff. Keep it up.

 

I just feel that life would be a bit better with her.

 

Also normal. But it's not up to you. It's up to her and she's made it abundantly clear that she does not see you as a romantic option. And it's extremely difficult to go from lovers to friends to lovers. It's a very very low-percentage play. Friends to lovers works a lot because those friendships came naturally with no agenda. You have an agenda. She has to come to this conclusion on your own, and while it seems counterintuitive, you hovering is way more likely to prevent her from reconsidering you romantically.

 

I acknowledge the mistakes I made and she made some massive ones herself that most on here would say are unforgivable, but I've been missing her some (obviously) and she keeps giving me "my life sucks" bread crumbs - it's like then what the hell are you doing then, just come hang out.

 

When she first started dating me, she ruthlessly told her ex that I was the one she was going to marry. She also cut other ex's out of her life and never wanted to see them - when she did she dreaded it. Our connection was different, it's evident by my stupid inability to forget about her and her inability to stop talking to me and to continually say nothing positive about this new guy she's with.

 

Learn from your mistakes, but she needs to learn from hers. And what is there for her to learn if you keep hanging around? And yes, you were together for 4.5 years, so you have history. It's hard to go from 100 to 0 on that (as you well know) even if you're the dumper. Right now she's using the emotional support you give her by answering and texting as her support while she looks around. You're a great "buddy" at this point. Not a romantic option.

 

If she was on cloud 9, she wouldn't be reaching out to her ex that made her so "miserable" to hangout, mention that she's driving by our old places and that its weird and making fun of him to me. If she was on cloud 9, she'd be staying there.

 

She's not on Cloud 9, but she can wait it out with him or find someone else because you're right there as the safety net to make her feel better. When she does find someone she really likes (which won't be you at this point in time because you're the "friend") she'll drop you like a bad habit again. Are you really willing to keep hovering around in the periphery hoping beyond hope that she has an epiphany while saying "remember me?" every so often? If you are, good luck, but that's a really hard road that very rarely pays off. But hey, maybe you need to eat glass a few more times before you realize that having a bloody mouth sucks, I don't know.

[ravfour4]

Thanks for the nicer reply, although you had to end it in typical Simon fashion with that last line

 

I think what gets me is how 2 weeks ago I bitched her out so badly, telling her what a terrible person she was and the next day she was hating on me so hard, saying we can't be friends now - then a short time after we're talking again. It's like we're two destructive magnets, no matter what happens and no matter what either of us say, we keep migrating back to talking. One could say it's a sign of true love. Others would say it's just two emotionally unstable fools.

 

It's likely much more destructive to me, but doing what she's doing is destructive to whatever she has with this married guy and if she has any brain at all, she'd know it's misleading to me. You don't text your ex saying you drove by your old places and it was weird, tell him what a ****ty week you had and how terrible your bday was and how much you hate your current living situation (why?! You can hang out with your new bf all the time if you want), then crash a concert she knows I'll be at and not expect me to read into it a bit.

 

I guess simply put she may just care about me as a person, but then why not just say hi, my lives good I hope yours is too. Why the "calls" for help, I feel like she wants me to try to get her again just so she can deny me, but I don't think she's so purposefully evil.

 

I know that going NC for a while would make me forget about her - it's just naturally what happens when nothing is reminding you of a person, just like a close high school friend you now barely remember after not talking for years, but for some reason I don't want to. That's the issue, I know.

 

I don't feel so emotional anymore, it's more of a cognitive "I'll be fine on my own, but out of all the women out there, for now I want that one". I see her now as a single girl (debatable if she actually is) and for the most part ignore our emotional past. something about how complex she is just intrigues me, to my own demise.

[Simon Phoenix]

Thanks for the nicer reply, although you had to end it in typical Simon fashion with that last line

 

I think what gets me is how 2 weeks ago I bitched her out so badly, telling her what a terrible person she was and the next day she was hating on me so hard, saying we can't be friends now - then a short time after we're talking again. It's like we're two destructive magnets, no matter what happens and no matter what either of us say, we keep migrating back to talking. One could say it's a sign of true love. Others would say it's just two emotionally unstable fools.

 

It's likely much more destructive to me, but doing what she's doing is destructive to whatever she has with this married guy and if she has any brain at all, she'd know it's misleading to me. You don't text your ex saying you drove by your old places and it was weird, tell him what a ****ty week you had and how terrible your bday was and how much you hate your current living situation (why?! You can hang out with your new bf all the time if you want), then crash a concert she knows I'll be at and not expect me to read into it a bit.

 

I guess simply put she may just care about me as a person, but then why not just say hi, my lives good I hope yours is too. Why the "calls" for help, I feel like she wants me to try to get her again just so she can deny me, but I don't think she's so purposefully evil.

 

I know that going NC for a while would make me forget about her - it's just naturally what happens when nothing is reminding you of a person, just like a close high school friend you now barely remember after not talking for years, but for some reason I don't want to. That's the issue, I know.

 

I'm going to go back to something I posted on Page 3 that explains her behavior.

 

1. She acts on what she wants in a particular moment without any regard to what that could mean down the road

 

It really is that simple.

 

I don't feel so emotional anymore, it's more of a cognitive "I'll be fine on my own, but out of all the women out there, for now I want that one". I see her now as a single girl (debatable if she actually is) and for the most part ignore our emotional past. something about how complex she is just intrigues me, to my own demise.

 

And it's stuff like this that makes me, and others, "mean" to you because you're simply fooling yourself. You said the opposite earlier today.

 

Very interesting. Some of that article certainly rings a bell. Seeing her last night screwed me up a bit more than I thought it would. She used the same tactics she always does to reel me in "my life stinks" "I'm unhappy" "I hate my living situation", when I hear those things I want to "save" her and see it as a cry for help. Why tell me these things unless you want me to fix them or unless you want sympathy? Why text me at 2 am saying you hate your place...if another girl did that to me it would translate to "invite me over", but I know that's not the case with her.

 

The one thing that seems unique about my story compared to others on here is that she keeps coming back to me (not romantically, obviously) in one way or another. Other's ex's seem to give them the cold shoulder once they move on. I'm not sure if it's because of my stubborn persistence, if it's a testament to the quality of our relationship when it was good or if it's just because she wants my emotional support because the new guy just isn't fulfilling that need.

 

Then again, the first time we ever met, she danced with her ex for a bit and when we saw him she was always friendly - despite hating on him behind his back. It was just weird last night, I danced with 4 or 5 girls and even made out with 2 of them, all who were 7.5-8 or above, but it just felt empty. I wanted to be dancing with her.

 

What hasn't registered for you is that just because you think an action or a reaction means a certain thing does not mean that she feels the same. In fact, she probably doesn't. And just because she feels one way about things she's doing does not mean that you feel the same way (you obviously do not).

 

One of the biggest misconceptions in a breakup (by both the dumpee and the dumper) is that the other person is in the same state of mind and deciphers things the same way you are. You see her contact with you as a signal that she still wants you, she sees the fact that you are receptive to said contact as a signal that you are cool with being friends. Neither one is correct and neither one of you are listening to the other. You aren't listening to her when she says she doesn't love you like that and she's not listening to you when you say that it's lovers or nothing. And since neither of you are willing to back up your words with actions (No Contact) you keep yourselves in limbo. She doesn't mind the limbo because she has another dude, but the limbo isn't doing you any favors.

 

If there's anything you take away from this, you need to stop assuming that she's on the same page with what you want, because that's exactly what she's doing with you.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Simon Phoenix

[ravfour4]

Makes sense. I suppose she could be so far out of love with me that she is viewing this 100% platonically and the thought of leading me on doesn't even cross her mind. But why complain about everything that is associated with not being with me - I guess because she acts on a whim like you said.

 

I always approach us meeting as friends, but as soon as she starts saying her life sucks or acting like things are going terrible with the other guy - my "save her! Get her back!" instinct kicks in full force.

 

If I could have my way, she'd come back full force, apologize a ton and I could say "see, I told you I wouldn't give up" and we'd live happily ever after. That's EXTREMELY unlikely and I'm quite prepared for the alternative - I'll be fine without you and will eventually meet someone who truly cares and who is hopefully as fun.

Edited June 19, 2015 by ravfour4

[JewelD]

Nah, not worth it. Not sure why she's angry and thinks people giving advice are miserable losers, but she's right in the fact that it's up to him whether or not he wants to take whatever advice is given. Didn't express it very well, but I can't really say every post I've made on this site has been expressed very well either.

 

Ultimately I want ravfour to get past this rut he's in and I don't want him making mistakes I've made in the past. I will disagree with one thing she said -- I don't ignore advice on sites like this when I'm in the muck, probably because I come to sites like this when I realize that whatever perspective and research I might have had was wrong or I wanted a second opinion.

 

Nothing to say when it's true. Nobody called you a miserable loser, but if that's what you gathered, maybe the shoe fits. But people personally not going through breakups or just hovering around and having little empathy seems counterproductive.

 

And that's also sad if you follow all advice given to you, as you don't know anybody on here or their intentions. Maybe you wouldn't get so angry and scold people if you grasped onto that.

[Simon Phoenix]

Makes sense. I suppose she could be so far out of love with me that she is viewing this 100% platonically and the thought of leading me on doesn't even cross her mind. But why complain about everything that is associated with not being with me - I guess because she acts on a whim like you said.

 

I always approach us meeting as friends, but as soon as she starts saying her life sucks or acting like things are going terrible with the other guy - my "save her! Get her back!" instinct kicks in full force.

 

If I could have my way, she'd come back full force, apologize a ton and I could say "see, I told you I wouldn't give up" and we'd live happily ever after. That's EXTREMELY unlikely and I'm quite prepared for the alternative - I'll be fine without you and will eventually meet someone who truly cares and who is hopefully as fun.

 

Being friends with an ex in your situation is nearly impossible. Maybe in a year or so, when she transitions from your "ex" to "a girl I used to date" then you can do it, but it's too much right now. People aren't telling you this stuff to be negative -- it's just that what you are trying to do is just so very, very hard.

 

That's why we advise No Contact. It's not because were mean people, because what you are doing right now just isn't possible. I think the only time it ever worked was on Seinfeld with Jerry and Elaine, but that's a TV show from 20 years ago. That's not a shot at you -- it'd be the same if I was in your exact situation or any other poster on this board. If your instinct is ever "Save Her! Get Her Back!" then a friendship isn't a good idea. Ultimately it's up to you though.

 

Honestly, trying to figure out another person's motives is just a waste of time. It's hard enough keeping track of our own motives sometimes -- no way you're going to figure out another person. You're more likely to drive yourself insane than find the combination to that safe.

[Downtown]

RAV4, I still agree with Simon's advice. Significantly, that guy has hung with you since the first week of April -- writing at least four dozen posts to try and support you. IMO, that's not "what's wrong with these boards" but, rather, what's right. I wish we had more members like him.

When I hear those things I want to "save" her and see it as a cry for help. Why tell me these things unless you want me to fix them or unless you want sympathy?

RAV4, if she is has strong BPD traits as you believe, she never wanted you to actually save her. Instead, what a BPDer wants -- and needs every day -- is frequent validation of her false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." This is why, during the relationship, she allows you to play only one of two roles: rescuer and perpetrator.

 

While she's splitting you white, you are perceived to be her rescuer and she expects you to do plenty of rescuing. But haven't you noticed that, every time you pull her from the stormy waters, she jumps right back in as soon as you turn your head. The objective of all the rescuing, then, is NOT to actually save her, improve her, or fix her. Rather, it is to validate her false self image of being "The Victim." Of course, the reason she keeps creating one crisis after another -- and keeps manufacturing drama -- is that she sorely needs validation as frequently as possible.

 

The other role you were allowed to play is that of "Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of every misfortune to befall her. Clearly, the implication of you being "The Perpetrator" is that she must be "The Victim." So, regardless of whether you are rescuer or perpetrator, she obtains the frequent validation she needs.

 

The one thing that seems unique about my story compared to others on here is that she keeps coming back to me (not romantically, obviously) in one way or another.... Our connection was different, it's evident by my stupid inability to forget about her and her inability to stop talking to me.

No, if she is a BPDer as you believe, your story is not "unique" and your connection is not "different." You will find about 400 stories like yours by simply clicking on my name and reading the threads I participated in. And you will find thousands more at the BPDfamily forum you participate in. Because BPDers mirror the personalities of their new partners during the infatuation period, nearly all of those partners are quickly convinced that they've met their "soul mate," that a special connection exists, and that they were somehow destined to meet each other. Likewise, the BPDer also is so infatuated that he/she believes it too.

 

Yet, because the BPDer is so emotionally immature, what she is primarily infatuated with is not the unique personality characteristics of her new mate but, rather, the relationship itself. If you doubt that, you can easily verify it by acting YOURSELF around that BPDer. Once the honeymoon period ends, she will be horrified to see you behaving like yourself.

 

This is why you quickly learned to walk on eggshells around her to avoid "being your old self," which would trigger her anger or cold withdrawal. And this is why, after the toxic relationship ends, it can take several months for the abused partner to start feeling like is "old self." And this is why these partners frequently complain, while in the relationship, that they've lost sight of who they were at the beginning.

 

It's like we're two destructive magnets, no matter what happens and no matter what either of us say, we keep migrating back to talking. One could say it's a sign of true love.

Perhaps the true love does exist. This frequent push-away and pull-back drama, however, is simply a sign that you are valuable to her only as long as you keep validating her false self image of being "The Victim." When she's pushing you away in anger, you are the "Perpetrator" and hence she is validated as a victim. Similarly, when she's pulling you back with passionate sex and love bombing, you are the "Rescuer" -- and hence she is again validated as a victim (or you wouldn't be trying so hard to rescue her from unhappiness).

 

I don't think she's so purposefully evil.

I agree -- if she is a BPDer as you believe. My experience is that the vast majority of BPDers are good people. Their problem is not being "bad" or "evil" but, rather, being unstable and emotionally immature. Hence, unless you think of four year olds as bad and evil, it would be a mistake to assign those labels to most BPDers. Indeed, two of the most beloved women in the world -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.

 

Something about how complex she is just intrigues me.

If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), she likely is no more complex than any other adult. What you're seeing is not complexity but, rather, emotional immaturity. That is, you are seeing how a four year old behaves when she has the intelligence, knowledge, cunning, and body strength of a full-grown woman. This is why I earlier said that, if she really is a BPDer, your relationship essentially is parent/child, not BF/GF.

[ravfour4]

Don't get me wrong, I have appreciated Simons advice, especially when I felt emotionally consumed by this and was ridden with anxiety (thankfully, I am no longer there). I've come to understand BPD after being on that forum for a bit, now a calm and collected me thinks "yeah, you'll be fine on your own, you'll eventually meet someone that you'll love and have a nice honeymoon phase with - but that ex of yours, she was awesome and you wanted her as your wife. You screwed up some and now you're seeing her true nasty colors, fix it, make it right, get her back".

 

The weirdest part is, a very similar scenario happened to me before with my ex-ex, but I never was that fond of her. I agreed to date her because she was so persistent and sexual, but once I found out about another guy, I said good bye, walked out and went NC for 4 years (we stayed fb friends that whole time though). With this girl, I loved her up until those last few months of the relationship when she was just being terrible. After the break up she went back to her old self - and I fell back in love. I don't really understand why I'm so willing to forgive her for her grave mistakes and betrayal. I think it's the whole rather be needed than loved thing, that part of the article unfortunately felt like it rang true. She acted like she needed me to survive when we first met. It made me feel like a god.

 

Really, with both of my ex's i raised them up from a terrible spot to a spot where they were seemingly more happy and successful than ever. They no longer needed me and the relationship slowly fell apart in both cases. Interesting. I should reflect on myself and my needs more.

[ravfour4]

Just an update, no advice needed at this point. No bashing wanted either

 

We texted a bit the morning after the concert. I knew she'd be downtown for work that night so I told her to let me know if she wanted to grab a drink. She ended up asking me to go and picked me up at 11 pm, we talked for an hour or so as friends and she came over after and hung out for a bit. She told me she ended things with the other guy for good and that they should have done that long ago (remember...3 weeks ago she left me again after we had a forced 3 weeks of hanging out everyday to go back to him because he "loved" her more). I laughed and said "duh" I knew that happened, I could tell by the way you're acting and I knew that wouldn't work.

 

We mention going on a bike ride and bike for almost 2 hours on Wednesday. We're just having fun, reminiscing about the good times. We take the dog to the dog park afterwards, there are ladies there - she jokes that she's sorry for "blocking" me. We walk home and continue reminiscing about the good times, even the sexual good times. Once home we start talking casually about what happened to us. We talk about how hanging out everyday while she was still very confused was asking for failure - if we wanted it to work we should have went much slower to see if the attraction could grow. We're on the same page for once. She starts crying and saying things like "I really wanted us to work out, I didn't want any of this to happen", "the person I marry I want to be like you".

 

I don't read into it much and eventually drive her home. We mention that this is the best we've been together in like a year and that's it weird that we're better now than towards the end of us dating. I tell her to let me know if she wants to hang out again - that it's on her. She says "ok! It will probably won't be until next week though!" We've texted very briefly each day since then and after seeing a mutual friend out while wasted last night - I texted her some not so smooth texts - nothing crazy though. She didn't respond to my last few texts.

 

Personally I'm still focusing on myself and have been meeting lots of new women. If she asks to hangout again I'll give it another shot given our last conversation. I'm 95% sure I'm friend zoned right now, although her crying about us always throws me for a bit of a loop. Just being friends will hinder my healing too much and I'll need to cut it off, it was nice to be on the same page again for once though. I thought that would never happen.

[ravfour4]

Haha wow. She's back to being a big ol' bitch.

 

We text briefly (once a day about) for the few days after we hang out. She's brief and takes forever to respond - I do the same and for the first time I wait like a whole day to respond. I feel like I'm friend-zoned so I send her a compliment about a recent pic (dumbass move) she responds quickly. We don't talk for a few days and that feels great.

 

Tonight, she calls me. I figure it's maybe to hang out again since that's how we left it last time - nope. I wait an hour or so and call back after finishing dinner with some friends. She answers yelling damnit! I just passed your place I wanted to drop off your vacuum (I let her borrow it the day we rode bikes together before she moved - she moved in w a random girl via sublet today).

 

She asks me what I'm doing, I tell her eating dinner. She rudely says "why are you calling then?" I say "we just finished and you just called", "like an hour ago!" then she makes up weird excuses why she can't drop it off and I'm like im not there and I'm not in some huge hurry to get it anyways..... Then she tries to hop off the phone quickly as she pulls into her parking garage. I like a dumbass ask "you still down to bike ride again soon?" She says "perhaps.." the end.

 

I'm so fed up with her, I should have never let her treat me the way she did but especially not when we're supposed to be mutual friends - don't be telling me you want to bike ride and will let me know soon, then call me - act all distant and ****ty about a vacuum and rush me off the phone.

 

**** her. I'm ready to block. if she doesn't reach or about the stupid vacuum tomorrow I certainly won't . If she does, I'll let her drop it off, tell her what a huge slut she is and tell her to never talk to me again. I'm finally sick of this ****. She probably has some new bf like the huge empty no sense of self hoe she is.

Edited July 1, 2015 by ravfour4

[mightycpa]

And as the rollercoaster approaches to the end of the tracks, please stay in your seats with your seatbelts fastened, keeping your hands, arms, feet, and legs inside the car until the car has stopped completely, and the ride operator gives you the all-clear signal to exit. We hope you enjoyed your ride on the Rollercoaster of Love, and we hope you'll be back real soon!

[ravfour4]

Blocked. Finally. Everywhere.

[DexterLS]

And as the rollercoaster approaches to the end of the tracks, please stay in your seats with your seatbelts fastened, keeping your hands, arms, feet, and legs inside the car until the car has stopped completely, and the ride operator gives you the all-clear signal to exit. We hope you enjoyed your ride on the Rollercoaster of Love, and we hope you'll be back real soon!

 

This cracked me up, but mightycpa is right.

 

I am just as hopeless as you, to be honest, but I promised myself that I would try my hardest to stick with NC.

 

That's the only thing left to do. I am focused on healing myself and I think you should do!

 

All the best, buddy