NC Journey Begins

[ravfour4]

Of course, she texted me again "how's the dog park!?" Must have seen me while driving by. Whyyyy, you said you wanted me to move on and knew we had to stop talking for me to do that, you don't need to tell me that you creepily saw me at the dog park.

 

Cmon mind, you can do it. No response...for once. Shut up heart/fear.

[54JA]

I know you have already heard this a million times, but is there anyway you can block her so that you won't even have the idea that she contacted you? You have the power to end this! Hang in there.

[Male3133]

This thread HAS to be a joke. No one could be this controlling and manipulative, and yet so oblivious to their own nature.

 

Dude - it's YOU not HER!

 

Read "Codependent No More". It will open your eyes.

 

YOU want to control her responses, her emotions, her actions and you FREAK OUT if she behaved in a way that clearly shows that you are not in control.

 

Your behavior seems crazy and illogical to the outside observer - even to you - but it will never change until you clearly see your codependent actions.

 

You may want to consider IC - just talk to a professional and you will gain insights.

 

Next, read "his needs her needs" - yeah it sounds like an awful chick flick but it's an easy read. You will see why you are meeting her primary needs - affection and communication - and she will NEVER meet yours - SEX. When you dangle these things in front of her she grabs at them and gets her fix then runs off because she doesn't want to meet your needs. Maybe your clingy, controlling behavior is too creepy - IDK the reasons.

 

Seriously dude read those TODAY - you can get them at any bookstore or at the library like I did.

[ravfour4]

What? I freak out when she acts like she wants to get back together, lies to my face and then does the exact opposite of what she said. I freak out when she bounces from I still have love for you to I want to be friends forever to I'm going to ignore you.

 

My behavior is continually chasing a woman who no longer loves me, but loves to leave the door open and breadcrumbs. I agree I'm codependent in nature, but most of your post seems off base and rude. i wanted to fight for her because it's what she eventually said she wanted, when I talk to her I'm calm and collected and only blew her phone up once this entire time. i told her to stop talking to me and she keeps texting, what are you talking about?

[Male3133]

You have to take responsibility for YOU - that's my point.

 

HER behavior is her own. Period. When you REACT to her actions, emotions, and YOUR assumptions about what her thoughts and reasons are, YOU are behaving in a codependent manner and are not making independent choices and decisions based on a clear understanding of your needs, wants, and realistuc possibilities.

 

You are quick to dismiss others that are telling you this over and over and over.

 

It doesn't matter AT ALL what her actions, emotions or possible thoughts are now. Why? Because:

 

1) she left you

2) she replaced you emotionally and sexually COMPLETELY and multiple times

 

YOU on the other hand appear to believe in unicorns. But in fact, it's not really what you believe that is driving your actions.

 

Instead you are simply repeating PATTERNS that you have learned and that you subconsciously must believe will magically give you back control so some (unimaginable to most) positive outcome will occur.

 

If I sound harsh it is because you have made it clear what you will do in spite of the good advice you have been given. My advice is to read those books and REALLY try to see how you are repeating patterns that don't make sense and can not lead to a positive outcome for you.

 

I honestly don't see why anyone would be ok with what you are trying to save. You are not even plan B most of the time - based in this torturous thread - and are never plan A even when things are going ok. So stop trying to manipulate her into saying what you want to hear and instead see objectively what you appear to be chasing.

It's just not something anyone should be chasing after.

[Male3133]

I don't expect this to be clear to you for a while. Jut think about the difference between a REACTION and an action. "She leaves the door open...". Anything after that is you REACTING.

 

Instead try to imagine NEVER reacting to anything. How can you tell?

 

If what you do starts with "she said ... so I did..." or "she texted me and so I..."

 

If you reread your posts you will be shocked when you realize most of your behavior is only 1 of 2 things: reacting to her or 2) trying to get her to say something (many quotes where you didn't want to leave the relationship without hearing her say you are a good guy, etc.) which is manipulative behavior.

 

At this point you have a hard time doing anything that isn't one of these 2 situations.

 

What could you do? Act with regard to her the way you act when you work out. You probably have times, places, exercises, routines you choose to get a desired cardio, strength or bulk goal. You probably set that agenda.

 

If you approach your relationships the same way as working out, you'll set an objective, think about what you want to achieve and set about the process of achieving it. You won't set crazy unrealistic goals like "skipping leg day" LOL and thinking you won't look like those Internet memes.

 

The book will give many examples of behavior that you probably take for granted that are in fact unhealthy and are codependent (any "walking on eggshells" behavior is way up there).

 

You are young enough to straighten this out and gain insight so future relationships are more healthy.

[ravfour4]

Thanks for the reply, it helped clear things up. To clarify, my mention of getting her to say I'm a good guy was just me looking back reflecting on why I keep going back and what closure I yearn for. I think it rattled me to hear from her that I was terrible, because she knew me better than anyone, even if I thought I was amazing, having someone I trusted so much say otherwise made me doubt myself. When we hung out everyday for 3 weeks she was her normal self and treated me with respect (at first), she was talking about us, babies and a future - it sounded like I was Plan A.

 

I agree that I've been reactive at times and proactive in others, likely mainly reactive. It's probably those times that I'm proactive that have brought her closer and reactive when I've pushed her further. Just not talking to her for a day makes me feel much stronger. With my ex ex I fought until we gave it a second chance and then it exploded, I told her to never talk to me and she didn't, but had she, I knew I would have responded. With my ex, I fought until we gave it a psuedo second chance, it partially exploded. I fought more and we hung out for 4 hours having a solid stress free time, then she got sketchy again and I told her not to talk to me anymore.

 

Unlike my ex ex she keeps talking to me. Maybe because she's more needy. Maybe it's because she respects me less, I'm not sure. I agree that I've been reactive, that helps put things in perspective and I appreciate it.

[ravfour4]

Feel like venting a bit and resummarizing my story as I know others can learn from it. I reread some of my earlier threads and man, I was a desperate fool, had I acted different I maybe could have her back, but the past is the past.

 

Dated a girl for almost 4 years, she came onto to me super strong and was beautiful, it made me feel like a god. We were long distance (2 hours) for 8m and after she graduated from a community college we moved in together in my city as I had just got an awesome new job after finishing my undergrad. There were a TON of red flags that I ignored:

-unable to make decisions, a small decision could bring her to her knees and cause an emotional meltdown.

-unable to control emotions. She'd rage and say the meanest things she could think of, then apologize profusely saying she doesn't know why she does that.

-was looking for love badly and was head over heels for me before she knew me well at all

-had a traumatic childhood, previous strong drug addiction, a physically abusive relationship and an emotionally abusive relaitionship.

-would make sporadic decisions that ended up being detrimental to me

 

I didn't care. She made me feel like I was her savior and I was happy to do it. I tutored her through math, I paid for her bus fare and groceries, I calmed her down, I helped her make decisions, I helped guide her career path, I was there for her constantly.

 

After moving in together and getting a puppy, all the red flags were still there and we worked opposite hours. I started smoking weed heavily out of boredom and eventually as years passed we didn't do a lot of fun things anymore. She grew to resent me for it, but when I asked what was wrong she'd be cold and say I don't know. It drove me insane knowing something was wrong, but not what it was. As she grew to resent me, I started to resent her for being so uncaring and overtime we ended up butting heads constantly. Her actions never matched her words and it became super stressful.

 

After nearly 4 years she initiated the break up, I said fine after seeing that she no longer cared. She started being herself again and I fell back in love. Soon after I found out she was with an older still married coworker with kids that I had previously heard was a huge loser. She lied about it constantly, but my suspicions became true when I checked her phone. Soon after my dad died. We lived together for 3 months after the breakup, it was absolute torture having her flirt with me, then text him in our back room all while lying about it. I tried to kick her out multiple times, but she'd break down crying, act lovey and suck me back in. I finally got her out by saying I'd pay for her rent and linking her up with a friend's sublet. I helped her move out.

 

She still had keys and let our dog out daily. When I got the keys back, I told her I was sorry for making her feel unloved and that I still cared. She broke down crying and then started asking me how to end things with this other guy (who she told me she wasn't dating...). We were supposed to go on a dinner date but the other guy sent her hundreds of texts, flowers and kept showing up at her place. After her blaming me for everything, we called it off and went NC.

 

2 weeks later, she called me, came over, told me she missed me and that the other guy sucked, then ended things with him. We hung out everyday for he next 3 weeks, she wasn't over the other guy, he was still texting, she felt pressured to love me, she was scared of losing both of us and it was a disaster. As soon as it got good she'd back away and say she was confused, she eventually went back to him after a heated 2 AM argument with me.

 

A week later, she comes to a concert I'm at, she tells me she's single, we grab drinks the next day and it's as natural as ever. A few days later we bike for 2 hours and hangout for 2 more, talking about how great we were and how we're getting along better than ever. I told her to call me if she wanted to hangout again, she said she for sure would the following week. The next week I got some BS call about dropping my vacuum off when I wasn't there. I flipped out at her inconsistency (probably unwarranted) and told her we can't talk anymore, she either needs to love me, like me or hate me and can't keep bouncing around all 3. She said she understood, but she's contacted me most days since then (almost a week ago). Most recently she asked if she had any mail at my place, even though I know she already had it forwarded.

 

I've been focusing on myself. I lost 20 lbs, I got promoted, I quit smoking, I've made a ton of new friends, I'm going on dates, me and my dog go to the dog park daily, I'm more caring and considerate, I've added multiple hobbies to my life and logically it doesn't make any sense for me to want her, she betrayed me so badly, yet I still miss her. Mainly because the last time we hung out it was 4 hours of complete fun with zero weirdness. I know why I still have feelings, it's because we're still in contact. I just know that she's confused as hell and has some feelings for me based on her actions despite her words "I'm not in love with you anymore" and this continual pattern of coming back to me, it keeps me hooked.

Edited July 14, 2015 by ravfour4

[ravfour4]

Eh, my date ditched out today, I've been talking to a few ladies and was feeling super confident despite the date rescheduling. I gave in and texted the ex after seeing that I actually did have some mail for her that arrived today with her mail forwarding letter. I sent a pic of a dog that looked like ours w/ a joke and a how's your day going? No response yet, it's been an hour or so and now I feel anxiety, so stupid. I guess I'm insane.

 

I waited an hour before I sent it, still felt the calm desire to. I figured she'd have some lame response or maybe just a brief description of her day. I no longer really think of her as my ex and I no longer want her back romantically, I just miss talking to her at this point, it's been 3 weeks since we last met up and had a ton of fun. I'm a weak fool! I know I need to ACTUALLY go NC to get rid of the rose colored glasses and I probably should stop visiting this site so much.

 

Update: she responded loving the pic and ignoring the how was your day, obvious she doesn't want to talk, but feels too bad not to reply. Time to go NC for real (despite this threads title...lol)

Edited July 15, 2015 by ravfour4

[quattrob]

Eh, my date ditched out today, I've been talking to a few ladies and was feeling super confident despite the date rescheduling. I gave in and texted the ex after seeing that I actually did have some mail for her that arrived today with her mail forwarding letter. I sent a pic of a dog that looked like ours w/ a joke and a how's your day going? No response yet, it's been an hour or so and now I feel anxiety, so stupid. I guess I'm insane.

 

I waited an hour before I sent it, still felt the calm desire to. I figured she'd have some lame response or maybe just a brief description of her day. I no longer really think of her as my ex and I no longer want her back romantically, I just miss talking to her at this point, it's been 3 weeks since we last met up and had a ton of fun. I'm a weak fool! I know I need to ACTUALLY go NC to get rid of the rose colored glasses and I probably should stop visiting this site so much.

 

Update: she responded loving the pic and ignoring the how was your day, obvious she doesn't want to talk, but feels too bad not to reply. Time to go NC for real (despite this threads title...lol)

 

You sound like a broken record man.. I hope one day you can mean what you say and stick to it.. you're just being stupid like you said and hurting yourself.

[drade]

Your digging yourself into a deeper and deeper grave. I'm two weeks into no contact. It's hard as hell, but manageable if you cherish and respect your sanity, self worth, and pride. Let. It. Go. Stop with this nonsense. Look up the word willpower in the dictionary. Become self disciplined in becoming happy with yourself and loving yourself. This whole thread makes my eyes want to pop out of their sockets. And I thought I had issues post breakup... Become intact with your emotions, tendencies, speculations, and analyzation. Start to work on emotional maturity, take months if not years of NC to reflect and figure out who you really are. Your ALL over the place.

[ravfour4]

Eh, it's a stupid game/cycle I keep entertaining. It intrigues me, it excites me and it unfortunately hurts me. I'll stop when I meet someone new, hopefully sooner. She ended up responding asking how my day was and telling me about hers, we're both enabling it, but more importantly I am (obviously). I'll stop posting about it

Edited July 15, 2015 by ravfour4

[Simon Phoenix]

Eh, it's a stupid game/cycle I keep entertaining. It intrigues me, it excites me and it unfortunately hurts me. I'll stop when I meet someone new, hopefully sooner. She ended up responding asking how my day was and telling me about hers, we're both enabling it, but more importantly I am (obviously). I'll stop posting about it

 

You're making it infinitely more difficult to meet someone else. And of course she's enabling it -- she's not nearly as invested as you are. You really need to stop looking at the two of you as a team with the same agenda and start looking at your own individual agenda. Her agenda is nothing like yours.

 

I mean dude, it's like you get off on sabotaging yourself. I just don't really know what the hell you're doing. Then again, I don't think you have any idea what you're doing either, which is why you continue to chase your own tail. I just hope you lock it up sooner rather than later, because you're just running in place.

[ravfour4]

I just need to continually remind myself of this: "Youre not as strong as you think. You cannot talk to her right now. Even if that pulls you off her mind allowing her to move on to someone new, you have to do it as it is the only way you can move forward fully and likely the only way you could get her back if that rarity was to ever happen"

 

Up until now I feel like I've been able to sense the momentum of her feelings which is why she's come back multiple times (despite none of those being super sincere reconciliation attempts). After planning to block her and her freaking out about it, she's been texting me much faster and much nicer, maybe it's because she realized she was being distant for no reason before or maybe because it made her realize she does still care about me to an extent. That's why I've continued to poke the bear with a stick as of late. I know what I'm doing, it just is partially self destructive as you mentioned.

[Simon Phoenix]

I just need to continually remind myself of this: "Youre not as strong as you think. You cannot talk to her right now. Even if that pulls you off her mind allowing her to move on to someone new, you have to do it as it is the only way you can move forward fully and likely the only way you could get her back if that rarity was to ever happen"

 

Up until now I feel like I've been able to sense the momentum of her feelings which is why she's come back multiple times (despite none of those being super sincere reconciliation attempts). After planning to block her and her freaking out about it, she's been texting me much faster and much nicer, maybe it's because she realized she was being distant for no reason before or maybe because it made her realize she does still care about me to an extent. That's why I've continued to poke the bear with a stick as of late. I know what I'm doing, it just is partially self destructive as you mentioned.

 

Partially self-destructive? It's completely self-destructive and counterproductive.

[quattrob]

Eh, it's a stupid game/cycle I keep entertaining. It intrigues me, it excites me and it unfortunately hurts me. I'll stop when I meet someone new, hopefully sooner. She ended up responding asking how my day was and telling me about hers, we're both enabling it, but more importantly I am (obviously). I'll stop posting about it

 

 

To be honest, that part is very concerning. You need to learn to be happy on your own and not rely on others for your own happiness. It does sound like you are using others to make you feel better about yourself. I wonder why these "dates" keep getting cancelled or no shows or whatever on you? They probably feel that you're desperation and that something is awkward about your approach. You can keep telling yourself it's not how it is but others don't view it that way.

 

 

As far as I can tell you aren't ready to be in any kind of serious relationship, if you somehow do get into one it probably won't be a healthy one with the way your mentality works right now.

[ravfour4]

Thanks for your expert opinion. The dates that flaked out are Dating app women who have voluntarily given me their numbers, I barely talk to them at all and they ask me to meet up for drinks all I say back is "sure" or something like that. She already rescheduled for tomorrow, the other one delayed once, then begged to meet again and was apologizing then flaked out. If anything they probably think I'm not super interested because...I'm not. I'm not desperate, I've been attracting women consistently this last month because I've given them minimal attention and I feel cocky/confident when out.

 

I think you're incorrect. The problem I haven't stopped talking to my ex, I like keeping her in the rotation of 5-6 girls I'm talking to because she's a ridiculous challenge at this point and she's hotter than the other 5 girls in the rotation. I also know I ****ed **** up before the end of the relationship and am a much better person now because of it. I'm happy, I just miss the companionship, who doesn't? Almost every girl or guy out there is looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend if they don't already have one, it doesn't mean you need one. I also didn't say I wouldn't be happy until I found someone new, I just am having trouble stopping talking to my ex. When I find someone new and worthwhile, the ex will be thrown out the window because the new girl would hate it and I won't care to fight for her anymore. I could just say **** it and move on, but I haven't yet

 

I'm not looking for anything serious right now, I'm jaded from everything that happened and would keep them at a distance. I've been cutting the women I do meet off because I don't feel the same about them and I'm not trying to hurt their feelings.

Edited July 15, 2015 by ravfour4

[Simon Phoenix]

Thanks for your expert opinion. The dates that flaked out are Dating app women who have voluntarily given me their numbers, I barely talk to them at all and they ask me to meet up for drinks all I say back is "sure" or something like that. She already rescheduled for tomorrow, the other one delayed once, then begged to meet again and was apologizing then flaked out. If anything they probably think I'm not super interested because...I'm not. I'm not desperate, I've been attracting women consistently this last month because I've given them minimal attention and I feel cocky/confident when out.

 

I think you're incorrect. The problem I haven't stopped talking to my ex, I like keeping her in the rotation of 5-6 girls I'm talking to because she's a ridiculous challenge at this point and she's hotter than the other 5 girls in the rotation. I also know I ****ed **** up before the end of the relationship and am a much better person now because of it. I'm happy, I just miss the companionship, who doesn't? Almost every girl or guy out there is looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend if they don't already have one, it doesn't mean you need one. I also didn't say I wouldn't be happy until I found someone new, I just am having trouble stopping talking to my ex. When I find someone new and worthwhile, the ex will be thrown out the window because the new girl would hate it and I won't care to fight for her anymore. I could just say **** it and move on, but I haven't yet

 

I'm not looking for anything serious right now, I'm jaded from everything that happened and would keep them at a distance. I've been cutting the women I do meet off because I don't feel the same about them and I'm not trying to hurt their feelings.

 

Dude, you're all over the place. In one breath you're not looking for anything serious, in the other you're talking to an ex who you had a serious relationship with and who you've been plotting to try to reconcile with for months now. It reads as pure spin, and it all comes back to you stubbornly refusing to do the ONLY thing you need to do, which is cut off contact with your ex. Everything else -- from meeting other worthwhile women to becoming more independent and getting more strength -- would be helped so much if you didn't stubbornly refuse to do this very fundamental step.

[mightycpa]

Dude, you're all over the place. In one breath you're not looking for anything serious, in the other you're talking to an ex who you had a serious relationship with and who you've been plotting to try to reconcile with for months now. It reads as pure spin, and it all comes back to you stubbornly refusing to do the ONLY thing you need to do, which is cut off contact with your ex. Everything else -- from meeting other worthwhile women to becoming more independent and getting more strength -- would be helped so much if you didn't stubbornly refuse to do this very fundamental step.

It's shockingly difficult to learn how to tell yourself the truth, isn't it?