Pretty sure it's done for good

[Doublegold]

Hi Red,

 

I think you and your Husband are doing great. Since your focused on the X-AP to a point where it is alarming you, do you feel it is a Control issue? Do you generally like to be in control, and not having the ability to know her thought process is affecting you in a negative way?

 

Don't let her rent space in your head. She may have met someone else and is happy.

[Red123]

In your posts, I see my wife. I have been drawn to your posts, too.

 

Sometimes, things need to fall apart to be put back together again - and put together the right way and stronger.

 

That's were my wife and I are finding ourselves. We have seen where each of us has failed in our marriage and we are both working very hard to communicate more honestly and openly and to make every day count.

 

It's a journey, Red. One thing this has taught me and my wife is we live for today only. What happened yesterday is old news. It no longer serves us to stay there in any way.

 

I love my wife deeply. I'm sure your husband feels the same about you.

 

Walk the journey today one step at a time together.

 

I hope the new house has brought you closer together. Be happy.

 

It's wonderful, thank you. I feel that H and I both failed in our M too. I didn't cause his A but I didn't do my part at the end to keep us happy, honestly I quit on him long before he did me, so we are both working to be the partner we want in each other.

[Red123]

Hi Red,

 

I think you and your Husband are doing great. Since your focused on the X-AP to a point where it is alarming you, do you feel it is a Control issue? Do you generally like to be in control, and not having the ability to know her thought process is affecting you in a negative way?

 

Don't let her rent space in your head. She may have met someone else and is happy.

 

Thank you. I don't believe its control, honestly at this time in my life I don't crave control, maybe in my 20s but not for a long time. I guess the only logical thing I can think of is wondering about her thought process because I don't know her. In my life I prefer to face things head on but I couldn't do this with her. I chose to let my H clean up his own mess, plus what would I even have said we were separated when I found out and she didn't know me, he did it to me. She betrayed her H but that's on her. So I guess not knowing someone who invaded your life, that you didn't invite in, you wonder who they are and what they think. I'll never get those answers, so I know its best to let it go. My H barely knew her so not sure why I think I should. As for her finding someone new I sure hope not, she has an H and 2 little children. My H was her second A, both true love according to her, but I truly hope she's done.

[No Limit]

Why didn't you expose to her H?

[Red123]

Why didn't you expose to her H?

 

Good question. I just couldn't. I don't what kind of man he is.

[Lion Heart]

He threatened to tell her H the last time she attempted contact so I hope so too. All of the times she attempted contact he told her to leave him alone so If that were me I would get the the very loud hint but not sure about her.

 

This ^^^^. OWs own husband didn't know. That, for me as BW, would leave far too much undone.

As a BW that's the first person I would've told.

 

I would hate to think my H had an A with a MW and her husband found out without telling me (or any of the 3 people involved in that dirty secret) and had the "privilege" of living in the truth. Yet I was living in a lie.

 

I would know if my WH (in each M) wanted the OW because the grounds have been WIDE open for them to have them. I definitely said they were WELCOME to that life!

 

It's not a competition between you and every other woman on earth, it's a show of commitment from WH to you that should be observed.

 

Good luck

Lion Heart.

[Red123]

I would know if my WH (in each M) wanted the OW because the grounds have been WIDE open for them to have them. I definitely said they were WELCOME to that life!

 

It's not a competition between you and every other woman on earth, it's a show of commitment from WH to you that should be observed.

 

Good luck

Lion Heart.

 

I'm sorry I'm confused about what your saying to me. I mean that sincerely, are you saying I'm in competition with her? Maybe it's just me , I'm a little foggy today.

[Lion Heart]

I'm sorry, me too. Urrrgh. I'll try to be kinder. Hugs.

 

I meant that IF the other BH knew about the A immediately, as soon as you were composed enough to inform him, THEN you would've known immediately too, IF your WH wanted his OW /MW.

 

Your anxiety about the OW possibly still continuing to approach your WH, means something. I'm not sure what.

 

The fact that these two married people engaged in the A in the first place, shows a connection of some type. Telling all betrayed partners is 1 very speedy way of allowing both of them to ride off into the sunset to la la land with the unicorns.

IF all betrayed partners know AND both wayward spouses DON'T want each AP actually then that's clear immediately too.

 

I'm clear as mud right?

 

Basically everyone in the Ms (to do with the A) need to know who they're married to. Keeping this secret can:

a) help prolong the A ie they take it underground,

b) allow one WS the continued open opportunity to keep trying, even if their AP is NC and trying to R, and cause further havoc to the R process as in your case,

c) hide the depth of the feelings the APs had for each other,

making for a false R.

 

Honesty to all parties concerned is the fastest way to D or R.

 

Lion Heart.

[Red123]

I'm sorry, me too. Urrrgh. I'll try to be kinder. Hugs.

 

I meant that IF the other BH knew about the A immediately, as soon as you were composed enough to inform him, THEN you would've known immediately too, IF your WH wanted his OW /MW.

 

Your anxiety about the OW possibly still continuing to approach your WH, means something. I'm not sure what.

 

The fact that these two married people engaged in the A in the first place, shows a connection of some type. Telling all betrayed partners is 1 very speedy way of allowing both of them to ride off into the sunset to la la land with the unicorns.

IF all betrayed partners know AND both wayward spouses DON'T want each AP actually then that's clear immediately too.

 

I'm clear as mud right?

 

Basically everyone in the Ms (to do with the A) need to know who they're married to. Keeping this secret can:

a) help prolong the A ie they take it underground,

b) allow one WS the continued open opportunity to keep trying, even if their AP is NC and trying to R, and cause further havoc to the R process as in your case,

c) hide the depth of the feelings the APs had for each other,

making for a false R.

 

Honesty to all parties concerned is the fastest way to D or R.

 

Lion Heart.

I think I understand now:). The way I felt and still feel is I don't want to have to stop him from having any contact with her that's his choice and has always been. I didn't want to be chosen over her because they got caught and she was no longer available. We were separating when they met and the A lasted about 2 months and they spoke for about a month after he ended it. I was done and I told him to do whatever he wanted. I understand why people say I should have exposed it to her H but I just couldn't at the time for a few reasons. One I didn't know what kind of man he is, meaning possibly abusive, and she has 2 very young children. I also was protecting myself, I didn't want to deal with her situation and possible contact with her and her H, I was just trying to deal my own pain and moving forward. Obviously he came back or we wouldn't be in R, and I didn't accept him back without conditions, he met them and continues to do so. My question was about timeframe of moving on. She continued to attempt contact for a while after it ended and hasn't in a long time so I was asking if others thought from their experience that it was safe to think she is gone. I am being questioned on why I want to know and the answer is because I realized it's been a year since her last attempt and I think that's good, and I am hoping she's moved on since he had moved on before her.

[Friskyone4u]

Red,

 

You cannot control her or what she will do or not do. Waste of energy to fixate on her. it is your husband that counts.

 

Now, before he had an affair, you probably thought he NEVER would. So using the term NEVER for anything is dangerous. Anything is possible, probably not going to happen.

 

Unfortunately, infidelity changes some things that cannot go back to the way they were. one of them is TOTAL and UNCONDITIONAL trust for most people.

If he is doing all the right things and making you feel safe you need to not let this other woman invade your thoughts.

[Red123]

Red,

 

You cannot control her or what she will do or not do. Waste of energy to fixate on her. it is your husband that counts.

 

Now, before he had an affair, you probably thought he NEVER would. So using the term NEVER for anything is dangerous. Anything is possible, probably not going to happen.

 

Unfortunately, infidelity changes some things that cannot go back to the way they were. one of them is TOTAL and UNCONDITIONAL trust for most people.

If he is doing all the right things and making you feel safe you need to not let this other woman invade your thoughts.

 

Thank you. I agree, I'm working on it.

[sandylee1]

See, I think if you truly felt safe, you wouldn't wonder if she was really gone or not.

 

I'm sure H has done everything right to help you feel safe, but she's still in the back of your mind...picking away at your thoughts.

 

Why?

 

I think once the trust has been broken, you can never (or very rately) feel 100% safe. However, you said you were separating at the time of the affair, so maybe things were different.

 

I hope she leaves him alone and it's great that he tells you whenever she breaks NC. Did your H ever send her an NC letter?

[Red123]

I think once the trust has been broken, you can never (or very rately) feel 100% safe. However, you said you were separating at the time of the affair, so maybe things were different.

 

I hope she leaves him alone and it's great that he tells you whenever she breaks NC. Did your H ever send her an NC letter?

 

Thanks. Yes he did. At the time we were still separated so I saw it after it was done. Truthfully I didn't know about writing a NC letter at the time so I was surprised when he did it. He had ended it a month before and she was still sending IMs, so he says he went online looking for articles about infidelity and reds about the NC letter. He sent to her and then sent it to me along with her response. It was very detailed,I know they say to keep it simple but he didn't want any questions about his intentions. She still tried a few times more but it's been quiet for a year so that's good.

[merrmeade]

Thanks. Yes he did. At the time we were still separated so I saw it after it was done. Truthfully I didn't know about writing a NC letter at the time so I was surprised when he did it. He had ended it a month before and she was still sending IMs, so he says he went online looking for articles about infidelity and reds about the NC letter. He sent to her and then sent it to me along with her response. It was very detailed,I know they say to keep it simple but he didn't want any questions about his intentions. She still tried a few times more but it's been quiet for a year so that's good.

THAT RIGHT THERE is your problem. I would bet any amount of money on it but there's no proving because there's no repeating. That window of opportunity is closed.

 

I am so sure of this because my husband is probably the WORST example of a supposedly 'reconciling' WS in history. No clue what it means or what his affect is. Anyway, he did, however, get NC right though obviously he could not have brought it off by himself. ESPECIALLY since the first supposed 'closure' was him, going off down the street to a pay phone to end it, i.e., tell her good-bye. The repercussions of that backfire are what prompted me to research the proper way to do NC. He wrote the letter, took my input before and after AND THEN I SEALED AND MAILED IT. She's honored his request for 2-1/2 years.

 

The reason this works is very important. It works not just because it's from the MM/W but because you AND he have carefully vetted the language. In our case, he pretty much copied the one I found online which was just fine. It probably shocked the bejeezus out of her because he's usually so wishy-washy. But I saw how super-codependent she was on him (how my antennae got to bristling) and attentive to his needs and wishes. She clearly BELIEVED/ BELIEVES this is what HE wants and so she complies. It's just about the only thing we did right.

[merrmeade]

Actually, maybe you could redo the NC come to think of it - if you BOTH work together on the language. Find the online models. Tell him why it's better — the language is clear-cut, unequivocal, etc. and it's from him. Then he hand-writes it; you seal and mail the envelope.

 

I'll try to find some models.

 

This is one trigger that your husband OWES it to you to remove completely from YOUR life. It is done FOR YOU. Who gives a flying f--- what he wants. It is 100% for you.

 

My H's OW is a family member and in spite of NC between her and my H, she and I didn't have it because of family stuff. She was so sure we could be friends again. Made me crazy for a long time, but she just got married and I had the pleasure of turning my back on her at our most recent and, I'm reasonably confident, our very, very LAST - encounter. Hooray, hooray. (Almost rebroke an ankle kicking my heels together afterwards.)

[Red123]

I'm glad things are going well for you now. I actually think his NC letter was pretty good. He told her that the A was fantasy, and that he liked how it made him feel about himself, that he didn't love her or have any feelings for her and that it was a juvenile A. He told her the deveststation he caused at home and that he wanted his M back and would do anything to get it. He told her that they didn't even know each other and that the timeframe they had together wasn't long enough to develop anything real. Then he told her that he wanted nothing to do with her and that even a hello was unacceptable after what they had done. So I was satisfied and I'm glad he wrote it himself it meant it all came from him.

[merrmeade]

It has been barely over a year for you. I obsessed about the OW for longer than that. I've pasted excerpts from your different threads to make some points.

 

NC (but not NC)

I think OW haunts you because what you're doing is simply not NC. You say, "I do not tell him how to respond, and ... He sends me the contact emails and his responses." That's contact! He should not respond at all. NC means 100% "no contact" whatsoever. All WS communication is permanently off the table. If the AP attempts contact, the WS deletes it after handing it over to the BS. There's no response when "no contact" has been breached. Period. No contact from the WS. None. At all. Ever.

 

I believe that you will stay agitated as long as there is a threat that OW might pop up again in your life. You will go over and over things in your head that you could say to her. You will wonder what she thinks, how she sees the A, how and why she does what she does. You will post it as a question on LS. Etc.

• ... she attempted contact until April 2014 on and off.
  
• ... he wrote( on his own) a NC letter to her and emailed it.
  
• ... She responded
  
• ... Then 2 weeks later she emailed stating she lied
  
• ... He responded that he asked her to leave him alone and asked that she respect it.
  
• ... Then nothing until about a month ago when she emailed
  
• ... He responded in a very direct manner
  
• ... the last contact went to his work email from her personal email so I guess we left one out. She doesn't call him or text him because they didn't really use that during the A.
  
• ... She called once from a number he didn't know during LC and I happened to be there. He didn't talk to her
  
• ... I made him text to see what she wanted.
  
• ... in the past, we would be doing better, then I would get a call from him saying she sent an email and he would forward it and it always seemed to upset what was going on with me.

OW on your mind

Thinking about the OW almost made me crazy. When the OW is still in your life and you're unsure of the future, and that's what you do. For me, it was real because the OW was related by marriage. Finally, the family member that connected us died, the last memorial service was held, OW remarried and I stopped obsessing about her. It was (but wasn't) that simple. You think about the OW because she's still intervening in your life.

• ... The focus is on her because she was the one reaching out. I guess there isn't a safe timeframe away to feel like it's fully over.
  
• ... wondering about her thought process because I don't know her.... I guess not knowing someone who invaded your life, that you didn't invite in, you wonder who they are and what they think
  
• ... I guess after going through this I kept wondering if she was going to reach out again and if this would set us back, but I think after a full year of nothing she has moved on. She is blocked on all avenues but she managed to get through the last time with an email address that wasn't blocked.
  
• ... I do believe it's been over all this time as even if I chose not to believe my H, her communication was very telling.
  
• ... I understand what your saying, but even though I do believe he is totally done with her, it has been something that set me back... I agree it shouldn't matter but it has.

Trust and trickle truth

You also do not trust your husband for some reason. You seem isolated and stuck, just wondering, wondering, wondering when she will show back up again in your lives or if she already has. Without good MC to guide him to this place, you will both keep stumbling along not knowing what to do about this deep, deep anxiety that things are still not right.

 

From what I've read, it sounds like he minimizes and dismisses. Pretty standard approach to say that they 'only' had sex once or twice and try to convince you that it wasn't that serious, for example. But if you believe everything he says - after his dishonesty before - he will continue to control information. Not good for you.

 

One thing that might help you is to think about the ways that he is NOT helping you instead of being so understanding and generous in your assessments of his behavior. You will be clearer and will find more answers if you are more suspicious and cynical about his motives to varnish the truth or hold back details. It's still lying.

• ... When I am feeling extra paranoid I fear that the communication has been coordinated but honestly i don't think he has been in any contact with her.
  
• ... I hope this is true as I can only take his word for it. I'm just shocked at how juvenile this A was. Sex twice but mostly just making out for 20 minutes at lunch and IMs at work.
  
• ... eventually he came fully clean, at least I think.
  
• ... I'm afraid of opening up contact with them.
  
• ... I saw communication he thought he deleted so I was able have a small glance in to their A and not fully rely on what he told me.
  
• ... I also have no doubt that my husband is in contact with her. (But I also check his email all the time.)
  
• ... I guess I just have to wait and see if he is being totally honest about their contact. Since NC I believe I have seen all communication but only time will tell.
  
• ... if he wanted to hide her attempts at contact he could have; they went to his work email, but he didn't he showed me every time.
  
• ... He definitely did disregard me in a lot of ways, I guess she did too but we have never even spoken so I can't say that she owes me much.

You got a lot of good advice last year about this time. You might want to reread some of those posts. You'll have a different perspective and may appreciate better some of the things people said then about your husband. Edited May 8, 2015 by merrmeade

[No Limit]

Good question. I just couldn't. I don't what kind of man he is.

 

So you just assume he's an abusive prick who deserves to be cheated on for good? That's pretty harsh.

[Red123]

So you just assume he's an abusive prick who deserves to be cheated on for good? That's pretty harsh.

 

That's not true. I don't believe anyone deserves to be cheated on. You are assuming that's what I meant by that. It's not fair to take that statement and decide that's what I meant by it.

[Red123]

It has been barely over a year for you. I obsessed about the OW for longer than that. I've pasted excerpts from your different threads to make some points.

 

NC (but not NC)

I think OW haunts you because what you're doing is simply not NC. You say, "I do not tell him how to respond, and ... He sends me the contact emails and his responses." That's contact! He should not respond at all. NC means 100% "no contact" whatsoever. All WS communication is permanently off the table. If the AP attempts contact, the WS deletes it after handing it over to the BS. There's no response when "no contact" has been breached. Period. No contact from the WS. None. At all. Ever.

 

I believe that you will stay agitated as long as there is a threat that OW might pop up again in your life. You will go over and over things in your head that you could say to her. You will wonder what she thinks, how she sees the A, how and why she does what she does. You will post it as a question on LS. Etc.OW on your mind

Thinking about the OW almost made me crazy. When the OW is still in your life and you're unsure of the future, and that's what you do. For me, it was real because the OW was related by marriage. Finally, the family member that connected us died, the last memorial service was held, OW remarried and I stopped obsessing about her. It was (but wasn't) that simple. You think about the OW because she's still intervening in your life. Trust and trickle truth

You also do not trust your husband for some reason. You seem isolated and stuck, just wondering, wondering, wondering when she will show back up again in your lives or if she already has. Without good MC to guide him to this place, you will both keep stumbling along not knowing what to do about this deep, deep anxiety that things are still not right.

 

From what I've read, it sounds like he minimizes and dismisses. Pretty standard approach to say that they 'only' had sex once or twice and try to convince you that it wasn't that serious, for example. But if you believe everything he says - after his dishonesty before - he will continue to control information. Not good for you.

 

One thing that might help you is to think about the ways that he is NOT helping you instead of being so understanding and generous in your assessments of his behavior. You will be clearer and will find more answers if you are more suspicious and cynical about his motives to varnish the truth or hold back details. It's still lying.You got a lot of good advice last year about this time. You might want to reread some of those posts. You'll have a different perspective and may appreciate better some of the things people said then about your husband.

 

I appreciate you reaching out. The problem with putting all of my posts together like this is that those statements are from different time frames throughout this. I started reading and posting a few months after Dday. I'm not sure how others were at that time when it was so fresh but I was constantly thinking and posting to try to figure out my own thoughts, I was in my own kind of fog for a while. Some of the things I posted were just thoughts some were what was actually going on. It's been almost 18 months since Dday and things have changed dramatically but I do still struggle. My posts may look like I am understanding with my H, and I do try to be but that wasn't the vibe in our M for a long time. When I post here it's more about reflection, and I always talk to him about how I feel and have since we decided to R which included months of my wrath and nights ending in tears. I posted this question because I am stuck in a way. I want to let her go but sometimes I think if I do then I won't be prepared if she were to come back. All signs point to her not coming back so I was asking to see if others had experience with the longer you don't hear from them the safer it is to believe they are gone.

[gettingstronger]

Red123- You are doing awesome- its so hard to feel safe, so hard not to look over your shoulder for that next sucker punch- we are 2+ years out and the intrusions still happen so I get how much they set you back- I would have to say that 1 year is a really good sign- our OW has not gone 2 months!

 

Hang in there- try to hold on to what you see in front of you- a remorseful spouse trying to repair your marriage- enjoy him, enjoy you- try to not look back or worry so much- I know its hard- I have never been such a worry wort in my whole life- its like- well, I didn't see this one coming so I am going to make sure I see the next "thing" coming- my poor kids- it has spilled over to them- take a coat it might rain, don't forget to turn in your homework- I am kind of a nag sometimes

[Red123]

Red123- You are doing awesome- its so hard to feel safe, so hard not to look over your shoulder for that next sucker punch- we are 2+ years out and the intrusions still happen so I get how much they set you back- I would have to say that 1 year is a really good sign- our OW has not gone 2 months!

 

Hang in there- try to hold on to what you see in front of you- a remorseful spouse trying to repair your marriage- enjoy him, enjoy you- try to not look back or worry so much- I know its hard- I have never been such a worry wort in my whole life- its like- well, I didn't see this one coming so I am going to make sure I see the next "thing" coming- my poor kids- it has spilled over to them- take a coat it might rain, don't forget to turn in your homework- I am kind of a nag sometimes

 

I hear that, my kids are getting older and I still do it, they enjoy mocking my nagging together and having a good laugh about it. Thanks for your kind words I really appreciate it. I really am trying to enjoy my life again, I know my posts don't reflect that but this place is for talking about the infidelity part. I don't post about all the good things because I don't need support with them. Thanks again, the encouragement from someone further along in R gives me more hope.

[gettingstronger]

I agree- life is about 95% good, 5% not so much at this point- we do tend to post on that 5%- keep on keeping on!

[loveboid]

If I understand correctly your H gave you access to fMOW's new communications to him. If that is so then I commend him and also you for being concerned. I'm of the opinion that if he tells you about her he is partly looking for your help in keeping her from coming between you. I believe you are back to being a team again. So I would keep supporting each other.