Sex deprivation- is it an abuse ?

[clia]

Well if it's abuse for one partner to deprive the other of sex, then I suppose it's also abuse for the high libido partner to attempt to coerce (through guilt or otherwise) the low libido partner to have sex more often? It might be hard to believe for the high libido people out there, but when you aren't in the mood or don't desire sex, it isn't very enjoyable. I just don't think most spouses who are "depriving" the other of sex are doing it for nefarious or manipulative reasons.

 

Whenever these arguments come up, it seems like it's always assumed the high libido partner is the one whose needs have to be met. What about the low libido partner? Don't their needs count? Why would it be any less abusive for a man to guilt or otherwise coerce his wife into sex when she really doesn't feel like having it, just because he's in the mood? It goes both ways.

 

But I personally wouldn't classify either situation as abuse -- I'd classify it a situation where the partners need to communicate or find another partner with a sex drive who matches their own.

[autumnnight]

Well if it's abuse for one partner to deprive the other of sex, then I suppose it's also abuse for the high libido partner to attempt to coerce (through guilt or otherwise) the low libido partner to have sex more often? It might be hard to believe for the high libido people out there, but when you aren't in the mood or don't desire sex, it isn't very enjoyable. I just don't think most spouses who are "depriving" the other of sex are doing it for nefarious or manipulative reasons.

 

Whenever these arguments come up, it seems like it's always assumed the high libido partner is the one whose needs have to be met. What about the low libido partner? Don't their needs count? Why would it be any less abusive for a man to guilt or otherwise coerce his wife into sex when she really doesn't feel like having it, just because he's in the mood? It goes both ways.

 

But I personally wouldn't classify either situation as abuse -- I'd classify it a situation where the partners need to communicate or find another partner with a sex drive who matches their own.

 

 

To bad that isn't the topic of this thread. FTR, I never ever coerced OR manipulated. If he didn't want me, I SURE wasn't gonna try to get pressure sex or pity sex.

 

Then again, if I don't plan to sing, I wouldn't join an acapella choir. If I don't want to exercise, I'm not joining a gym. If someone doesn't want to have sex, find a similarly celibate partner or don't get married.

[clia]

To bad that isn't the topic of this thread. FTR, I never ever coerced OR manipulated. If he didn't want me, I SURE wasn't gonna try to get pressure sex or pity sex.

 

Then again, if I don't plan to sing, I wouldn't join an acapella choir. If I don't want to exercise, I'm not joining a gym. If someone doesn't want to have sex, find a similarly celibate partner or don't get married.

 

You don't think a person's sex drive can change or fluctuate as time goes by?

[Michelle ma Belle]

This works other places, so maybe it will here.

 

I was raped years and years ago. In addition, in one of my primary relationships, I was manipulated, twisted into knots, slapped, pushed down the stairs, and called names.

 

The years I spent in a sexless marriage have required more therapy, hurt more, and have caused more triggers than either of the above incidents. I still spontaneously cry at times and it's been over for years. And part of the pain comes from the implications that it was my fault, the implication that I volunteered to be hurt because i didn't end the marriage sooner, and the implications that I was just silly for needing something so unimportant so badly.

 

At least when I was raped no one tried to belittle my pain.

 

I have also lost a child. But I am not selfish and twisted enough to say THAT wasn't as painful as the above. THAT was the most painful thing.

 

Autumnnight sometimes I feel like we've lived the same life!

 

I can 100% relate to what you're saying and couldn't agree more. I still break into tears every time I think too long about those sexually starved years with my ex husband which is why I work so hard to avoid it as much as possible. And there are times I still feel like I was to blame for all of it even though I know better. It has been very traumatic to say the least and I've spent literally thousands of dollars in therapy working through those feelings both during my marriage and after.

 

I can't tell you many years I felt like I wasn't worthy of being loved the way I had wanted and needed to be.

 

However, I still don't feel completely comfortable attaching the word "abuse" to it. I can't speak for you but despite the circumstances, I know my ex loved me as best as he could - at least I've come to know that after the fact. We clearly were NOT sexually compatible and being young and naive we were horrible communicators at the time which didn't help matters.

 

As much as I don't feel comfortable using the word abuse to describe my situation I do understand that there are relationships out there where sex is used in a way that is very manipulative and cold. When a partner is not only very deliberate in their withholding of sex and/or affection but is very aware of what they're doing. It's a very conscious act.

 

Can this be considered abuse? I'm not sure. Perhaps it is closer to it then what I personally experienced or what most people have but again, it's a loaded word that comes with a pretty hefty stigma.

[autumnnight]

You don't think a person's sex drive can change or fluctuate as time goes by?

 

Of course. But when someone unilaterally decides sex is over, period, I cannot fathom that being okay. That is exactly what happened to me. HE decided it was over....after years of it being barely there. And he made sure I knew how sinful it was for a Christian to divorce unless they've been cheated on repeatedly or knocked around. In the end, I just didn't flat care if I made a preacher mad. But the pain was tremendous. If we told a souse or child "I am going to stop feeding you/talking to you", people would be up in arms.

[Els]

If we told a souse or child "I am going to stop feeding you/talking to you", people would be up in arms.

 

What constitutes abuse towards an adult isn't the same as what constitutes abuse towards a child, so I'm not sure why you're bringing children up. At any rate, what you mentioned above WOULD be abuse towards a child (because they can't feed themselves and can't choose to leave) but certainly NOT abuse towards an adult partner. Selfish, uncaring, unloving, etc - yes, but not abuse.

 

'Abuse' is an extremely specific term and you are doing genuine abuse victims a huge disfavour by slapping the term onto any sort of negative, rude, or hurtful behaviour that a partner does. I mean, if you really think about it, that sort of categorization can be stretched to ridiculous limits. Didn't get you a gift even though you said the occasion was meaningful to you? Abuse! Doesn't want to cuddle? Abuse! Didn't want to talk about the problem you encountered at work today? Abuse! Didn't introduce you to his friends?... You get the idea.

 

There are heaps of behaviours that are a good reason to leave a relationship, not all of them go under the 'abuse' umbrella.

[autumnnight]

What constitutes abuse towards an adult isn't the same as what constitutes abuse towards a child, so I'm not sure why you're bringing children up. At any rate, what you mentioned above WOULD be abuse towards a child (because they can't feed themselves and can't choose to leave) but certainly NOT abuse towards an adult partner. Selfish, uncaring, unloving, etc - yes, but not abuse.

 

'Abuse' is an extremely specific term and you are doing genuine abuse victims a huge disfavour by slapping the term onto any sort of negative, rude, or hurtful behaviour that a partner does. I mean, if you really think about it, that sort of categorization can be stretched to ridiculous limits. Didn't get you a gift even though you said the occasion was meaningful to you? Abuse! Doesn't want to cuddle? Abuse! Didn't want to talk about the problem you encountered at work today? Abuse! Didn't introduce you to his friends?... You get the idea.

 

There are heaps of behaviours that are a good reason to leave a relationship, not all of them go under the 'abuse' umbrella.

 

 

The fact that you compare a missed gift and cuddle to YEARS of deprivation just reinforces your insensitivty and the fact that you CHOOSE not to empathize.

[Els]

The fact that you compare a missed gift and cuddle to YEARS of deprivation just reinforces your insensitivty and the fact that you CHOOSE not to empathize.

 

I'm really not sure why some of you think there are only two possibilities: 1) zero empathy, no sex is totally fine, and 2) it's ABUSE!!! Saying that something isn't abuse is really not the same thing as not empathizing.

 

Anyway, you're missing the point completely - my point was that if the sole definition of 'abuse' is 'behaviour that makes your partner feel crappy', it's far too subjective a definition and can be stretched to ludicrous extents (hence the missed gift scenario). Re: the no-cuddling scenario.... what if it was YEARS of no cuddling? Not sure why anyone would put up with that either, but I imagine you think it's also ABUSE? You know, since you're being 'deprived' of emotional intimacy and all that.

[dreamingoftigers]

Elsewth ,

 

I am not sure about your current status , experience in life and your Libido ; but what I can tell you is that for me at least that being deprived sexually from a partner is really a very very bad feeling ; I am not sure if I mmentioned it in this thread :

 

I have been in wars , survived financial issues once , survived a brain tumor ; yet the pain involved in being deprived is more abusing to me .

 

it only happens if one is HD , it deprives from sleeping , thinking normally ...

 

Rebert , atumn ...

 

you know what I am talking about .

 

one important thing is that it can happen both ways , I know women who are deprived sexually and living this **** ...

 

 

dreamingoftigers, is your husband a jerk ? or a good man unable to perform ?

 

you mentioned some religious issue , do you mean he lent for sex ?

 

One imp thing is that sex deprivation makes us vulnerable , I am not giving a free pass to cheating , but after 17 years I tried myself to cheat , and failed ...

 

but yes , now I am a vulnerable person , and to be at least honest to myself ; if I encounter a women who could give me what I need , not only sex , I will be very vulnerable ...

 

 

Though my experience is a failure up to now ; I still advise that when the partner is not a creepy person ; things could be tried , and if the partner is not selfish , he/she might improve .

 

the decision of accepting a partial solution is realtive , for me my formula is very simple , if she satisfy my needs very few times per month , i am fine ; i want also oral badly , not very often , but since i never had it before in 17 years !, I feel vanilla is not really sufficient ...

 

 

my wife was very exited when we had sex before , once she is turned on she would orgasm may be 5-6 times , I do everything for her ; the main issue in my case is that she can go a hell weeks and month without it ...

 

she is selfish , lazy ; she doesn't accept that i just stop giving more than I can give in terms of services / goods .

 

like one time I refused to buy a treadmill (gently) , she punished me a month ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He injured his back in Sept, and mostly can't perform anymore *as far as I know* but I also found open lube in his possession. Seems weird if you "can't perform."

 

BUT he withheld for years before that.

 

And frankly, there are other things besides intercourse that we both could engage in, and having a back injury doesn't stop him from cuddling up to me at night, which he doesn't do either. When he is here, we sleep in separate rooms. Or he'll used to promise that he would come to bed and then sleep downstairs.

[Phoenician]

You don't think a person's sex drive can change or fluctuate as time goes by?

 

Fluctuate yes ,

 

deplete with age yes ,

 

but when two young partners committed to marry , having one of them selfish is the main issue .

 

I agree with autmun , if one doesn't like to do sports why enrolling himself/herself in a gym ?

 

selfishness is the main reason , beyond matching desires even ...

if your partner is vegeterian and you knew it since vows , would you cook meat every day just because you are not feeling to eat veggie ?

 

some people get married only because they are seeking social , financial and security ...

 

those people ignore the vows and create their own formula ...

 

my logic is that they shouldn't be married .

 

marriage is not a trip , it is journey ...

 

The question that I have a definite answer now is that are majority of LD just LD physically ?

 

no they are selfish , because if they just believe in givology , there won't be really a big problem .

 

The LD compromise most of the time , like myself , I lowered my expectations to very few times a month , waiting for Godot to trigger a right time , did that solve the issue ?

 

would she just respond to offer a HJ or a BJ I never got in my life ?

no .

 

after starvation , she wake up after weeks and engage in a very intimate vanilla intercourse , she even orgasms multiple times while I give and give .

 

then , when she is done , she will just say something like do you need more time !!!

 

majority of LD are like this , they are just

 

selfish .

 

The other category of LD are suffering from physical issues , but these are very straight forward issues of hormones ...

[dreamingoftigers]

The problem here seems to be that when people argue "not having sex with a person is not, in itself, a form of abuse" people hear "it's not that bad. It shouldn't hurt as much as you say it hurts."

 

I really don't think anybody's arguing that it's a bad feeling to be rejected sexually - or a sign of a dying/dead relationship. Guys often start threads on here talking about how terrible they feel because they can't find a woman to sleep with them. Of course these are horrible feelings, which are hard to manage. That one feels terrible about something doesn't automatically mean that somebody else can or should be identified as their abuser.

 

I've no doubt that there are people who use sex as a weapon and a bargaining chip. Some might do it because they're poor at communication and negotiating, and therefore resort to manipulation because they don't know how else to get their needs met. Others might do it because they're control freaks. I've seen PUA boards where men talk about "training" women to behave in certain ways by using withdrawal of affection. I think that's a sign of a person who isn't very competent at communicating and negotiating with other people, rather than perceiving it as the actions of a powerful man who is abusing his power...but I suppose if somebody feels abused by it, then they're entitled to those feelings.

 

I wrote a long spiel, but I deleted a lot of it because ultimately it's just more of my opinion and I'm not going to keep forcing it on people. At the end of the day, if people choose to apply the label of abuser to a partner because that partner no longer wants or is prepared to be intimate with them - and if all they're asking is that a sympathetic counsellor agree with them that they're a victim, they'll likely get it.

 

I just don't know how helpful that is to people once they leave the counselling room. I suppose they might be able to use the counsellor's "victim/abuser" diagnosis as something to control or "fix" their partner with...but I doubt many people would stick around very long in a scenario where they'd been labelled as an abuser. Once that diagnosis has been made, I should think any chance of improving the situation has been killed off....even if the couple choose to remain together in that endlessly unhappy dynamic,

 

Ironically enough, it surprised me to learn it was considered a form of abuse, but then when you think of the control dynamic involved in it and how it psychologically wears down the partner, it makes sense.

 

Interestingly enough as well, my husband actually agrees with the abusive angle and that it is not only abuse, but passive-aggressive as well.

 

He has actually admitted to having many passive-aggressive communication issues (he took the same DV course I did, because, well, he's been abusive and it was assigned by Social Services due to his outbursts.)

 

He also told me that communicating in a passive-aggressive way is "the most fun" if you can believe that.

 

Does it do anything special for my self-esteem to be a "victim." Is it a role that I relish and enjoy? NO to both. Emphatic no.

 

However, what it did do was help to identify the sex issue as a DV issue.

It helped me realize that it wasn't just some rational action he was taking as a result of something I did or was. It really underlined for me just how hostile he was toward me as well. Most abuse deals with hostility.

 

It wasn't that I "let myself go." He married a fatties, if anything I "reigned myself in." Plus his own weight increased substantially, which he didn't care about. Still doesn't. Doesn't bother me personally.

 

It wasn't about "body security" or "losing the connection."

 

It was simply about "na na na na na your religious beliefs preclude you from getting this anywhere else and you can't have it."

 

I've also come to the conclusion that most abuse is selfish and childish.

 

Also once that "diagnosis" was made, instant shame came over him. He realized that yes, he abused. And abused and abused and abused. More than just the sexual withholding.

 

I swear that if I told him I was afraid of the colour yellow, he would have pissed on the wall and laughed and then got angry if I was shocked by it. Then moped. Then felt bad, Then tossed out a cheap apology and expected me to be over it. Then back to pissing on the wall.

 

After a short while of having shame about being an abuser, he then switched to "here's all of the stuff you do to ABUSE ME" which was really fin in counseling to see it explained that "the fact that she doesn't like ketchup doesn't mean that she's stopping you from buying it or using that to control your food preferences or intake in any way. It's odd that this comes up because according to yourself, you don't like ketchup either."

 

Why be with someone like this you may ask? "Didn't you know?"

 

Emphatic NO. If he would have behaved remotely this way, I would not have married him. It was excruciating and I needed help from my church to get out of the living circumstance I was in. Financially, emotionally, physically, sexually and affectionately he was completely different until I got pregnant.

 

Was it a "two-way street"? There was one physical instance about five years ago when I caught him stepping out on me.

 

If you count bitching about him on a relationship forum, sure. If not. No. No two-way street. Someone had to stay calm. This place has been my outlet for years.

 

I don't need a "counselor's sympathetic validation" to know that I have been put through (and tried to work through, frantically and stubbornly) serious psychological abuse. He even tries to this day. Shaming, guilting, ignoring our daughter, blaming me. Even though in the next breath he is able to describe exactly the Hell he must have put me through.

 

I know, he knows. We both know.

 

When I see a spouse withholding sex from their partner and not giving them any real explanation, any real hope or just blah blah blah "jump through this hoop and we'll see," it stinks to High Heaven.

[Phoenician]

Autumnnight sometimes I feel like we've lived the same life!

 

I can 100% relate to what you're saying and couldn't agree more. I still break into tears every time I think too long about those sexually starved years with my ex husband which is why I work so hard to avoid it as much as possible. And there are times I still feel like I was to blame for all of it even though I know better. It has been very traumatic to say the least and I've spent literally thousands of dollars in therapy working through those feelings both during my marriage and after.

 

I can't tell you many years I felt like I wasn't worthy of being loved the way I had wanted and needed to be.

 

However, I still don't feel completely comfortable attaching the word "abuse" to it. I can't speak for you but despite the circumstances, I know my ex loved me as best as he could - at least I've come to know that after the fact. We clearly were NOT sexually compatible and being young and naive we were horrible communicators at the time which didn't help matters.

 

As much as I don't feel comfortable using the word abuse to describe my situation I do understand that there are relationships out there where sex is used in a way that is very manipulative and cold. When a partner is not only very deliberate in their withholding of sex and/or affection but is very aware of what they're doing. It's a very conscious act.

 

Can this be considered abuse? I'm not sure. Perhaps it is closer to it then what I personally experienced or what most people have but again, it's a loaded word that comes with a pretty hefty stigma.

 

Michelle ,

looking at your new pic too, i can't still understand how was he able to ignore you , your a charming venus , full of life

I am sorry again to what you have been through ...

 

getting so many responses , i am now more convinced about something :

 

- the abuse is not to deny sex , it is more related to how selfish one can be .

 

- The worst incompatibility when ppl get into a serious relationship or marriage is having someone , Lazy + selfish + LD ; while the partner is just : normal and giver ...

 

- I am not sure to name it abuse because abusers do their acts on purpose .. but some times they are just sick .

 

-Sick ppl needs therapy , if they refuse to heal , then they are very very selfish ....

 

My next question could be , are majority of LD selfish ?

 

anybody encountered an exception where the LD person is a great giver ?

 

 

if above is true ,may be treating selfishness is the main issue , because i have strong beliefs that an LD who is a giver is someone great to live with

[Phoenician]

He injured his back in Sept, and mostly can't perform anymore *as far as I know* but I also found open lube in his possession. Seems weird if you "can't perform."

 

BUT he withheld for years before that.

 

And frankly, there are other things besides intercourse that we both could engage in, and having a back injury doesn't stop him from cuddling up to me at night, which he doesn't do either. When he is here, we sleep in separate rooms. Or he'll used to promise that he would come to bed and then sleep downstairs.

 

sorry if I now ask some embarrasing question :

 

I will go to extreem and say he can perform anymore , which could not be the case , if he made you orgasm through cuddling and oral lets say once a week , which is half an hour sacrifice few times per month , would you still be in the same boat ? would you feel deprived ?

[Phoenician]

Dreamingoftigers ,

 

You are a great women , and you are a believer , in vows , in Family , and moral standards .

 

I advise you to do one single more shot ; sit down with your partner , and offer him a new start , just one last time , tell him frankly your expectations from him toward your child, toward yourself , and give it a chance , because you seem like me a person who doesn;'t want to loose faith .

 

tell him straight , that even if he can't perform well , he is still your man , all what you want is his love and be a giver ...

 

give one more chance , if he takes it great , if he doesn't , you deserve to live a good life from all aspects ; get a legal divorce immediately .

 

 

huggs.

[frogs88]

My next question could be , are majority of LD selfish ?

 

anybody encountered an exception where the LD person is a great giver ?

 

 

if above is true ,may be treating selfishness is the main issue , because i have strong beliefs that an LD who is a giver is someone great to live with

 

Selfish partners who withhold intimacy for whatever reason do so regardless of their drive. No amount of drive is going to convince someone to have you sex with you if they don't 'want' to. I think it's rather flawed to connect drive to selfishness.

[Taramere]

and not giving them any real explanation, any real hope or just blah blah blah "jump through this hoop and we'll see," it stinks to High Heaven.

 

I think that's because you had a horrible situation with a spouse who was abusive in various ways. Withholding sex just being one of them. If somebody is that hostile and antagonistic to you, and if they actually express enjoyment of hurting you passive aggressively (as he did) then I think it's very fair to assume that they're deliberately hurting you and therefore have a generally abusive mindset. Your ability to trust people generally is bound to be eroded if somebody like that is such a major part of your life for a long time. It might become increasingly difficult to believe that other people in other situations have any reasons other than hostile or abusive ones for not wanting to have sex with their spouse, when you've experienced a similar situation with somebody who you know very well had hostile intentions.

 

In another situation, though, with a completely different couple, it could be that a person feels increasing emotional distance from their spouse and is really struggling with the concept of being physically intimate when the emotional connection seems to have gone. They might not be able to give an explanation, because they haven't quite figured it out themselves.

 

You had a wealth of evidence of your husband being an abusive personality...though it didn't come out until you were locked in through marriage. Not uncommon. In your situation, I wouldn't want to even go through therapy with him. There seems to have been too much evidence of him deliberately wanting to hurt you, getting a kick our of it and having generally hostile intentions. When your husband initially demonstrated shame, as a result of counselling, about being abusive - then switching to accusing you yourself of being abusive, it might be that what he was really saying was "the balance of power is shifting in your favour here" (perhaps with the assistance of counselling and helping services) "and I don't like it." An abusive person will probably usually regard another person becoming more empowered as an abusive (to them) situation - even if the other person isn't becoming empowered in a hostile or abusive way.

 

If a problem in a relationship is created by a conflict that is down to incompatibility in a particular area, or something in the marriage having triggered sensitive issues for one of the people, then I can see counselling being helpful. If it's just that one person is a malignantly narcissistic douchebag who enjoys hurting people, I suspect counselling would just worsen things in the long run. Too much risk that a very narcissistic and abusive person will use counselling primarily to learn ways of improving their manipulation techniques....and the partner getting involved in the "fixing" process risks going further and further down that road to codependence. Some people can't be fixed. It's better to either steer clear altogether, or (if you enjoy their company in small doses) apply firm boundaries in your dealings with them so that you don't get too embroiled.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Taramere

[autumnnight]

I'm really not sure why some of you think there are only two possibilities: 1) zero empathy, no sex is totally fine, and 2) it's ABUSE!!! Saying that something isn't abuse is really not the same thing as not empathizing.

 

Anyway, you're missing the point completely - my point was that if the sole definition of 'abuse' is 'behaviour that makes your partner feel crappy', it's far too subjective a definition and can be stretched to ludicrous extents (hence the missed gift scenario). Re: the no-cuddling scenario.... what if it was YEARS of no cuddling? Not sure why anyone would put up with that either, but I imagine you think it's also ABUSE? You know, since you're being 'deprived' of emotional intimacy and all that.

 

If you cannot read the sarcasm and disdain in your own tone, I don't know what to tell you. But I do know you do not think of it as abuse, because NO ONE would talk to someone they considered to have been truly hurt that way.

[clia]

The examples given in this thread from sex deprived spouses seem to show numerous problems in the marriage, far beyond simply a lack of sex. These do not appear to be marriages where everything is fantastic except one partner has a lower drive than the other. The lack of sex may or may not be tied to the problems in the relationship, or may be a physical issue, or something else entirely. Low or no drive is not something that is uncomplicated -- it's not just either a person being selfish or a physical issue. For example, if a spouse is already unhappy in a marriage or unhappy with their spouse (for whatever reason, justified or not), it's not a huge leap to think they would not want to be intimate with that person any longer.

[Els]

If you cannot read the sarcasm and disdain in your own tone, I don't know what to tell you. But I do know you do not think of it as abuse, because NO ONE would talk to someone they considered to have been truly hurt that way.

 

1) Still missing the point.

2) I have no disdain towards people who have been hurt by terrible partners (including partners who stopped having sex with them). I think most of us have been hurt by previous relationships in some way or other and it is an awful feeling. I don't wish it on anyone.

3) I do have disdain towards people who show disdain towards genuine abuse victims by claiming that a partner who doesn't feel like having sex is being 'abusive', and by making personal accusations towards everyone who disagrees with them. For the record, before further accusations spew forth, I have been the 'higher drive' partner in an R where sexual activity dwindled into near nonexistence. I still hold that I was not being abused in that R. I'm not exactly speaking from the 'depriver' side here.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Elswyth

[Els]

He injured his back in Sept, and mostly can't perform anymore *as far as I know* but I also found open lube in his possession. Seems weird if you "can't perform."

 

BUT he withheld for years before that.

 

And frankly, there are other things besides intercourse that we both could engage in, and having a back injury doesn't stop him from cuddling up to me at night, which he doesn't do either. When he is here, we sleep in separate rooms. Or he'll used to promise that he would come to bed and then sleep downstairs.

 

DoT, don't you think there were much bigger problems at hand in your ex's case than just lack of sex? If he had kept his promises, cuddled with you, worked on other issues, etc - would you still think he was being abusive?

[Phoenician]

Els,

 

you are looking at another kind of low desires , it is "where sexual activity dwindled into near nonexistence" , that is another issue ;the examples discussed in this thread are related mostly to people who suffered from deprivation as a punishment ; I recall one time my wife punished me just because I argued politely about putting a treadmill in the bedroom .

 

For me , if my wife disagreed the way I did on such a simple topic , I will never deprive her from a basic need whatever the need is !

 

We are talking about the abusive kind of sex deprivation , not just few days or even weeks of cold wars ...

An example of what I considered abuse , happened when we were just fine , haven't argued for many be weeks and she was just happy , yet she was just selfish :

 

"I took my T shot ,I take one per month regularly for my Bones ,and my urge went to the extreem that night, I started sweating and shaking because I was in need for intimacy , my head was blowing, I was moving from one pillow to another .

 

I tried for hours , with gaps of course between them , to cuddle in bed , hug and try ....agin and again and again

at 4:00 am I went MB , because she said no , I am not feeling like doin it !

 

if she came with same urge , even if I am tired and blown in parts , I would have licked and cuddled and kissed and clicked every single button that makes her orgasm ....

 

she knew that I took my shot , she knew that I am in that state ; it was a weekend and she was relaxing since more than 36 hours ....

 

 

Is that abuse ? , for me yes.

 

Irrespective if it was an abuse ,

 

I can see clearly as I see sunlight : she is selfish , and sex deprivation is only a symptom ...

 

When Sex deprivation is extreeme , this is just a symptom to something major in the personality of the Partner , It is not just LD

 

 

 

 

 

yet , she is what she is ,

 

selfish ....

[Phoenician]

DoT, don't you think there were much bigger problems at hand in your ex's case than just lack of sex? If he had kept his promises, cuddled with you, worked on other issues, etc - would you still think he was being abusive?

 

yeah there is certainly another reason , he may be a jerk ?!

[Phoenician]

Els,

 

I was looking in the spectrum of threads you created and noticed that you don't really have a problem yet in your life ,

 

I am happy for you , but maybe you are still young or haven't experienced Long term relationship issues ; in all cases , if you are the you girl that have now the luxury of comparing MB to real Intimacy with a partner then you can not put yourself in someone shoes who only can reach Orgasms through MB , if time permits , and sometimes using DIY tools because it is cheaper and have a lot of responsibilities .

 

I manufactured a fake p once , from old breast feeding pump ! ( sorry ladies )

[Michelle ma Belle]

Els,

 

I recall one time my wife punished me just because I argued politely about putting a treadmill in the bedroom .

 

For me , if my wife disagreed the way I did on such a simple topic , I will never deprive her from a basic need whatever the need is !

 

Again speaking as a woman, we are emotional creatures and such we respond accordingly. If we're upset about something particularly if it was an argument where cross words were being thrown around the room it's very difficult to turn around and spread our legs and perform our wifely duties because that is what is expected. I'm not proud of this fact but it's just how many of us are wired.

 

I remember my ex husband was brilliant in the way we could be screaming at each other one moment and he'll forget about it 5 minutes later like it never happened. Meantime I was stewing about it for days, maybe even weeks because of hurt or how upset it made me.

 

I never understood how he could do turn on a dime like that and I interpreted his ability to forgive and forget as not giving a sh*t. Like the argument didn't matter and therefore nothing was going to change as a result.

 

Looking back NOW, I realize that wasn't exactly the case. Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

I'm still an emotional creature and it takes me a while to rebound from conflict and that includes being extra affectionate and even open for sex and I'm the one who has the high sex drive! I usually need to talk things out and get some kind of closure before I can open myself up again without limits.

 

I don't see this as abuse.

 

Just my two cents

[autumnnight]

The examples given in this thread from sex deprived spouses seem to show numerous problems in the marriage, far beyond simply a lack of sex. These do not appear to be marriages where everything is fantastic except one partner has a lower drive than the other. The lack of sex may or may not be tied to the problems in the relationship, or may be a physical issue, or something else entirely. Low or no drive is not something that is uncomplicated -- it's not just either a person being selfish or a physical issue. For example, if a spouse is already unhappy in a marriage or unhappy with their spouse (for whatever reason, justified or not), it's not a huge leap to think they would not want to be intimate with that person any longer.

 

The Billboard #1 song for the sex-deprived:

 

It's your fault because your partner is not happy with you...THAT's why they won't have sex with you! Fix yourself and they'll want you.

 

I give up.

 

Apparently it is more important to be right or comfortable than to empathize with horrific rejection and pain even if you can't understand (or probably have caused some from time to time by depriving).