Coming out of the affair fog... update from lemon 2 years later

[Adoraxx]

Friday morning I told him that I wanted to let him know that I wasn't mad anymore, or sad, or anything (I've send some seriously mean texts and emails). That I was ready to heal and I was going to be okay. And I actually said he did the right thing, he didn't want to leave her, so he let me go, and I actually thanked him for the sort of NC the last 10 weeks.

 

Your xMM probably sent you that 'I love you' message because he feels like you're slipping away (especially after saying what you said above) and he still wants to have control over you :/

[jenkins95]

Midnight, Josmatjes......and gang!

 

I hope you are well today! I have just caught up with your posts. I have pasted some highlights below: -

 

......Friday morning I told him that I wanted to let him know that I wasn't mad anymore, or sad, or anything (I've send some seriously mean texts and emails). That I was ready to heal and I was going to be okay. And I actually said he did the right thing, he didn't want to leave her, so he let me go, and I actually thanked him......and I was going to be fine......

 

Then that night, he was out on a date with W and he sent me a text telling me this and that he would check in later with me. It was odd and unnecessary, something from back when we were together. "I'm out with her. I'll check in later." and then later that evening, he texted "I love you. You must know I still do"......

 

So I communicated this all to my guy friend Saturday who knows xMM and he did not think it was nice or sweet, he was highly alarmed......

 

Wow! I just read this and it just hit a nerve in me. My xmm did the same thing to me, like the texting when he was out saying he'd check in later. He did that to me when we were no contact and he saw my car and he called me but it said no caller I'd so I answered it. I was pretty cold w yes and no answers and he's like ok ill call you tomorrow! He didn't thank god but then he texted me from another number a few days later and I think it's like your friend says, it happens so slowly that you don't even realize it! It's awful how ey can do that to someone. I went through severe depression over this over the past year and when I told him he changed the subject!

 

Guys, I'm so sorry that you had to deal with your xMMs behaving like this. I think that it is very wrong and very cruel of them. Once the A is over, it should stay over because unexpected contact, fishing and mixed messages like this can surely only cause confusion and delay the healing process. On every level, it is extremely cruel, weak and disrespectful to the W, and to you, to be sending messages like that when supposedly in reconciliation. The stakes are very high indeed now. There have been D-days and people have been given second chances. If slip-ups are made now, the consequences could be unrecoverable. How many people get third chances? ShatteredLady's thoughts reign true her: -

 

MidnightBlue. Your post was so sad. It made me cry. Your friend is so right!!!......That's brutal & cruel. It's NOT working on his marriage! He texted you while he was on a date because you opened the door, just a crack & he couldn't resist......Why does any woman want a man who can be that disrespectful? Ugh!! He must truly HATE his wife or he has zero empathy. His words & actions scream.

OMG!! What has she done to deserve this? What have you done to deserve that? "I love you. I will play with you. Help you recover by reminding you what you've lost while I'm on a 'recovery date' with the old ball & chain". Lovely.

 

This all actually makes me very grateful that I don't live near or work with my xAP. Because I think that if I saw her around day to day, it would play with my mind a lot. Whilst I definitely want to recover, make my marriage work and put the affair behind me and also want the xAP to be happy and move on to, if I had to interact with and see her every day, I would be very confused and it would run the risk of making me question my commitment to reconciliation. It would be impossible for me to look at her with simple indifference or only as a friend and I think it would be the same for her. I have to admit that seeing her would remind me not only of all the heart-ache, pain and confusion that I have caused, but also of the great love we felt and how she made me feel so alive, and like such a desirable, exciting man. I just wouldn't be able to stop the thoughts of what we had enter into my mind. Receiving a message like Midnight sent her xAP saying that she had forgiven him and that they had done the right thing would have a mixed effect. Of course, I would be delighted that all of us are moving in the right direction and that she is healing, but at the same time, a part of me - a part of me that I don't even want, but a part of me that I cannot silence would feel the loss of that magic that we had. The death of that part if my life that, while so wrong and hurtful, nevertheless brought me pure delight and ecstasy and made me feel so completely alive. And there's no doubt about it, it would make me sad, and there would be an element of what Adoraxx said......

 

Your xMM probably sent you that 'I love you' message because he feels like you're slipping away (especially after saying what you said above) and he still wants to have control over you :/

 

Yes, I very much relate to the "slipping away" thing, and it's as though he still wants to control you to some degree - to make sure you know he still loves you and keep you connected to him. If I lived near and worked with my xAP, perhaps I too would have slip-ups, but I like to think that I would be able to control myself a little better than Midnight's and Josmatjes's MMs in this situation. I actually think that even though it would be a lot of hassle and inconvenience, instead of having to face the xAP on an almost daily basis, I would look to change jobs/and or homes in the wake of a LTR, as I think complete NC is the best way to give yourself a chance of fully recovering. You see, in my mind, I can control my images of the OW and to some degree can control how often I indulge those images - I have a little story in my head of how her recovery is going OK, how she forgives but not forgets me, wishes me well and is continuing with her life. I also have her back with her BF (unlikely as he left her after he discovered...but possible). I don't see or hear from her, so nothing can touch my image, which of course is sanitised to make it as easy and comfortable as possible for me to accept. It is possibly very far from reality, but that doesn't matter - it is MY reality. I therefore find myself in agreement with your H's stance: -

 

He told me today that he has been good with his NC, well he sees her but they have limited contact. He says its easier for him to just ignore her......I do understand NC works for H. He has wondered if OW hates him and how her life is going but he knows it would be bad for her if he contacted her as it would confuse her. (probably him as well)

 

Anyway, sorry this post is a bit muddled, just wanted to get my brief thoughts out form the viewpoint of the MM. I think you sre doing really well guys. Midnight's words below are very good to read: -

 

I still feel pretty good, I feel more like the old me and I don't want to ever feel like I did back in December.

 

Keep going Midnight, Josmatjes, lemondrop21 and all other followers of this thread. Good times are ahead if we stay strong! And keep posting too!

Edited March 7, 2016 by jenkins95

[lemondrop21]

Hi gang,

Yeah I know I said I'd be taking a break from LS but here I am having a bad day and lurking around.

 

I really don't mind if you post on my thread! BUT I do want to encourage those of you who have threads that feature your own stories, to post updates there as well. I think it helps people who stumble on this site looking for help, to be able to read over other people's stories in a continuous way. At least, I found it helpful myself.

 

Lots of great discussion here, though! It's funny how much it varies; some days I feel like reading LS is like watching Jerry Springer and it does my head in, and then other days there are such great discussions that I continue to ponder as I go about my day .

[lemondrop21]

Lemon, I'm so glad you took some time out and treated yourself to a fabulous trip! A change in scenery does wonders for the soul. Regardless of whether you're dealing with a tough phase in your life, it's just good practice to take a beat and savor life.

 

I am sorry that you're going through the depression stage, but happy to hear that you're past the anger stage. I've certainly had moments where I struggled to get out of bed, but guess what, just like you pushed past the anger phase, you'll push past this too. As far as practical advice goes, working out intensely and eating well did wonders to get the endorphins going and combat the depressive episodes, and i'm going to sound obnoxious when I say this, but the lovely side effect of my ass looking awesome in my favorite jeans was pretty awesome.

 

Sending you happy thoughts...

 

I wholeheartedly agree, Love! I've been working out a lot (except for on my weekend trip) and am feeling quite good about the way I look. I'm starting to get back to how I looked pre-holiday and pre-breakup.

 

I'm even planning a little something special for myself... in 6 weeks I'm traveling to another country where the exchange rate is quite in my favor. I was already planning to get a headshot taken there for my LinkedIn profile, but decided to inquire about doing a few more photos too since it will be so affordable in this country. So now, I am thinking of doing a more personal photo shoot as well; at least some fun ones, maybe even a couple sexy ones (you know, the tasteful kind, not porno).

 

I really like the idea of doing this at this point in my life, when I'm feeling good about the way I look and doing it for ME - not for xMM or anyone else in my life. Also, with my friends all getting married and posting their engagement/wedding photos all the time, I'll feel like I have some awesome photos to post, too. I don't need a partner involved... just lil' ole me.

[lemondrop21]

Too much for me to multi-quote here! So I'll just quote Jenkins:

 

I actually think that even though it would be a lot of hassle and inconvenience, instead of having to face the xAP on an almost daily basis, I would look to change jobs/and or homes in the wake of a LTR, as I think complete NC is the best way to give yourself a chance of fully recovering. You see, in my mind, I can control my images of the OW and to some degree can control how often I indulge those images - I have a little story in my head of how her recovery is going OK, how she forgives but not forgets me, wishes me well and is continuing with her life. I also have her back with her BF (unlikely as he left her after he discovered...but possible). I don't see or hear from her, so nothing can touch my image, which of course is sanitised to make it as easy and comfortable as possible for me to accept. It is possibly very far from reality, but that doesn't matter - it is MY reality.

 

These types of sentiments are so confusing for me to read and even hurt a bit, even though I think all of you are probably right; maintaining NC, even when it seems "cold," is probably best for the recovering AP as well as the WS.

 

I'm in the middle of my recovery so I'm sure that my perspective is still warped. Right now, I honestly get a little boost most of the times when MM tries to contact me and I ignore.

 

I remember the day we hit 3 weeks of NC and I was shocked that he hadn't tried to contact me yet. At this point, if he STILL hadn't at least tried to break NC (5 weeks I think) then I don't think I would break NC either, but only out of fear of rejection. "Wow, he hasn't tried to contact me once... his marriage must be awesome and he must be happy," is what I would tell myself. I know this likely would be better for me in the long term, but it hurts to think about. I admit that I prefer to have the power in this situation - who wouldn't?

 

(Side note - my affair didn't have a DDay. I realize that changes everything. Breaking NC is an immediate act of betrayal to BS. In my xMM's case, of course it's still betrayal... but he never had to look her in the eye and swear he wouldn't contact me again.)

 

Jenkins, the story you tell yourself about your OW's recovery is probably partly accurate, but too simplistic. She probably has good days and really bad days, just like you. She probably went through an intense anger phase like I did, or maybe is still in it. I doubt she forgives you yet, although maybe she will in time. If she's trying to reconcile with her bf then that may distract her somewhat... although she may have chosen to work on herself first, before embarking on that sort of endeavor. I think many people coming out of affairs would choose to take time for themselves if possible, prior to attempting reconciliation; when you're married, it's generally not an option though.

 

I don't know your xOW, but she's probably got loads of pride that is keeping her from breaking NC. She's probably slowly getting back in touch with her identity. She's probably re-discovering the person that she was prior to the A... the person you were attracted to in the first place. Let's hope that's what she is doing.

[jenkins95]

Jenkins, the story you tell yourself about your OW's recovery is probably partly accurate, but too simplistic. She probably has good days and really bad days, just like you. She probably went through an intense anger phase like I did, or maybe is still in it. I doubt she forgives you yet, although maybe she will in time. If she's trying to reconcile with her bf then that may distract her somewhat... although she may have chosen to work on herself first, before embarking on that sort of endeavor. I think many people coming out of affairs would choose to take time for themselves if possible, prior to attempting reconciliation; when you're married, it's generally not an option though.

 

I don't know your xOW, but she's probably got loads of pride that is keeping her from breaking NC. She's probably slowly getting back in touch with her identity. She's probably re-discovering the person that she was prior to the A... the person you were attracted to in the first place. Let's hope that's what she is doing.

 

Thanks lemon, i really appreciate this insight from another OW.

 

From reading so many of these threads now, one thing that keeps coming out is how angry the OW can feel post affair, whereas the MMs usually feel sad, guilty, confused and lost. Is that a fair assessment?

 

This is often due to the OW feeling that the MM is guilty of future faking or lies. But in cases where both partners knew the score at the beginning, and no future faking or massive lies occurred, why is it often the case that the OW is usually more angry towards the MM after an affair than the other way round? Any ideas guys?

[lemondrop21]

Thanks lemon, i really appreciate this insight from another OW.

 

From reading so many of these threads now, one thing that keeps coming out is how angry the OW can feel post affair, whereas the MMs usually feel sad, guilty, confused and lost. Is that a fair assessment?

 

This is often due to the OW feeling that the MM is guilty of future faking or lies. But in cases where both partners knew the score at the beginning, and no future faking or massive lies occurred, why is it often the case that the OW is usually more angry towards the MM after an affair than the other way round? Any ideas guys?

 

My A was confusing. There was immense future faking in the very beginning but it only lasted perhaps a month before xMM backed down from it.

 

I think a lot of my anger comes from the fact that at month 4, he knew that his marriage might be salvageable because his wife had done counseling and it had helped things a bit. He continued to see both of us for 5 more months, somehow improving his marriage (superficially) AND developing our relationship. He finally cut it off when he realized that he had to give his marriage an honest chance - basically, it was no longer bad enough to leave, and I think he had started to remember a lot of the good things about the marriage. And I think that the ticking time bomb aspect of the A became too much.

 

I am angry at those wasted 5 months of my life. During most of that time, I thought that if his marriage was continuing to improve, why was he continuing to seeing me? I didn't understand how bad his compartmentalization had gotten. He should have cut it off at month 4 (or rather, should have never started it, but anyway). I didn't want to be in a competition with w.

 

During the A, and especially the last 5 months, he got two women showing him love and affection and we both got half a man. He allowed that to continue for 5 months. That's what makes me angry.

 

I'm also angry - maybe bitter is the right term - about his success and my failure. I've fallen behind in my career (should have been promoted by now), fallen behind in my masters program, spent thousands on therapy and traveling in order to get away from here (I know I'm lucky I can even afford those things). Meanwhile he's getting a promotion soon, still looks to everyone like wonderful family man, and has taken some great vacations with w and kids.

 

Finally I am angry at both myself and him on behalf of his wife and kids. He did pursue me at the beginning and dragged me into something that went against my values. I made the decision to continue it for months instead of walking away.

 

I do own my part in all of it, and have internalized plenty of anger as well. I should have been smarter than to get involved in this circus.

 

I'm curious to hear from others who never had any future faking and it was always meant to be discreet fun on the side.

[GuardianAngel2408]

Hello Lemon drop and everyone, am new here.

 

Hoping that you could get past this whole thing as soon as you can and find your happiness again. I shall post my story someday when I am more ready.

[jenkins95]

Welcome GuardianAngel. There will be plenty of people to help and support you when you are ready, whatever your story. By the fact that you made your first post to this thread, I suspect that you are an OW trying to understand what A was all about. But whatever your it is, I wish you all the very best.

 

Hello Lemon drop and everyone, am new here.

 

Hoping that you could get past this whole thing as soon as you can and find your happiness again. I shall post my story someday when I am more ready.

[jenkins95]

My A was confusing. There was immense future faking in the very beginning but it only lasted perhaps a month before xMM backed down from it.

 

I think a lot of my anger comes from the fact that at month 4, he knew that his marriage might be salvageable because his wife had done counseling and it had helped things a bit. He continued to see both of us for 5 more months, somehow improving his marriage (superficially) AND developing our relationship. He finally cut it off when he realized that he had to give his marriage an honest chance - basically, it was no longer bad enough to leave, and I think he had started to remember a lot of the good things about the marriage. And I think that the ticking time bomb aspect of the A became too much.

 

I am angry at those wasted 5 months of my life. During most of that time, I thought that if his marriage was continuing to improve, why was he continuing to seeing me? I didn't understand how bad his compartmentalization had gotten. He should have cut it off at month 4 (or rather, should have never started it, but anyway). I didn't want to be in a competition with w.

 

During the A, and especially the last 5 months, he got two women showing him love and affection and we both got half a man. He allowed that to continue for 5 months. That's what makes me angry.

 

I'm also angry - maybe bitter is the right term - about his success and my failure. I've fallen behind in my career (should have been promoted by now), fallen behind in my masters program, spent thousands on therapy and traveling in order to get away from here (I know I'm lucky I can even afford those things). Meanwhile he's getting a promotion soon, still looks to everyone like wonderful family man, and has taken some great vacations with w and kids.

 

Finally I am angry at both myself and him on behalf of his wife and kids. He did pursue me at the beginning and dragged me into something that went against my values. I made the decision to continue it for months instead of walking away.

 

I do own my part in all of it, and have internalized plenty of anger as well. I should have been smarter than to get involved in this circus.

 

I'm curious to hear from others who never had any future faking and it was meant to be discreet fun on the side.

 

Hi Lemon, yes I understand your anger. He seems to have hedged his bets a lot, stringing you both along while he tried to understand if his marriage was salvageable or not, keeping both options open. A serious amount of cake-eating going on there two with both of you showing him love and affection and him milking it all. I'm really sorry for your pain lemon - it sucks. All our A stories suck - big time, whatever role we played in them.

 

My A was supposed to fit into that category, in your words described as "never had any future faking and it was always meant to be discreet fun on the side"

 

But I was naive to think that it could stay like that. Spend enough time with someone you are attracted to, lots of compliments, indulge the physical side, say you love each other all the time, and it is almost certain to turn into something deeper. The future faking was never spoken, but was probably "implied" by our actions. When I had to end it after D-day, she was angry at me. I couldn't understand - I thought that neither of us had any more right than the other to be angry with each other. But I am now beginning to understand, and as I posted elsewhere, fundamental differences in male and female attitudes to love may have had a lot to do with it.

Edited March 7, 2016 by jenkins95

[Josmatjes]

Thanks lemon, i really appreciate this insight from another OW.

 

From reading so many of these threads now, one thing that keeps coming out is how angry the OW can feel post affair, whereas the MMs usually feel sad, guilty, confused and lost. Is that a fair assessment?

 

This is often due to the OW feeling that the MM is guilty of future faking or lies. But in cases where both partners knew the score at the beginning, and no future faking or massive lies occurred, why is it often the case that the OW is usually more angry towards the MM after an affair than the other way round? Any ideas guys?

 

Jenkins I pmed u

[RRM321]

This is often due to the OW feeling that the MM is guilty of future faking or lies. But in cases where both partners knew the score at the beginning, and no future faking or massive lies occurred, why is it often the case that the OW is usually more angry towards the MM after an affair than the other way round? Any ideas guys?

 

I think you may have it backwards.

 

For an affair to happen both people must be liars upon entry. At best, either or both would have to lie to themselves even if one or the other were predatory. Future making or future denying - it really doesn't matter, it all happens mostly in a delusion.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Midnight, Josmatjes......and gang!

 

Receiving a message like Midnight sent her xAP saying that she had forgiven him and that they had done the right thing would have a mixed effect. Of course, I would be delighted that all of us are moving in the right direction and that she is healing, but at the same time, a part of me - a part of me that I don't even want, but a part of me that I cannot silence would feel the loss of that magic that we had. The death of that part if my life that, while so wrong and hurtful, nevertheless brought me pure delight and ecstasy and made me feel so completely alive. And there's no doubt about it, it would make me sad, and there would be an element of what Adoraxx said......

 

Yes, I very much relate to the "slipping away" thing, and it's as though he still wants to control you to some degree - to make sure you know he still loves you and keep you connected to him. If I lived near and worked with my xAP, perhaps I too would have slip-ups, but I like to think that I would be able to control myself a little better than Midnight's and Josmatjes's MMs in this situation. I actually think that even though it would be a lot of hassle and inconvenience, instead of having to face the xAP on an almost daily basis, I would look to change jobs/and or homes in the wake of a LTR, as I think complete NC is the best way to give yourself a chance of fully recovering. I think you sre doing really well guys. Midnight's words below are very good to read: -

 

Keep going Midnight, Josmatjes, lemondrop21 and all other followers of this thread. Good times are ahead if we stay strong! And keep posting too!

 

Hi Jenkins, I was curious to see what you and others would say of the I Love You. A little update, over the weekend I asked him 'what he wanted from me.' I asked because I admit I was curious and every week is different with him and he sent that I love you. Today he responded and said he was sorry to not have responded yesterday. He wanted us to be friends and get back to how we once were, to "us". So I relayed this exchange to my friend, who knows us both in the same group and I told him I did not respond. He said I needed to respond, I was in a position of power for the moment and I needed to seize this opportunity to tell him we were not friends and could never be again, that I was better and moving on. End it, stick a knife in it while you have this moment, you will feel strong, he said. (He really hates him) So I did that, for once I took advice, I was a little nicer than my friend wanted but I'm not mad anymore. I just want to stay where I am and never go backwards. And I want to be free.

 

So I wrote, I'm not sure we can be friends or get back to where we once were. We were lovers and we still love each other. I think we can be friendly but not friends. You know we would be playing with fire. I am feeling better and can't risk going back to that dark place. Maybe down the road I'll feel differently but for now, it's just too dangerous. i'm not mad or sad. I'm sorry.

 

He didn't respond but I'll see him tomorrow.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Midnight, Josmatjes......and gang!

 

I hope you are well today! I have just caught up with your posts. I have pasted some highlights below: -

 

Keep going Midnight, Josmatjes, lemondrop21 and all other followers of this thread. Good times are ahead if we stay strong! And keep posting too!

 

I will fully admit it felt good to hear him say I love you after all the pain he caused me. He was nice to me last week and it actually really helped in me letting go.

 

Keep posting Jenkins, I love your posts from the male side.

[MidnightBlue1980]

My A was confusing. There was immense future faking in the very beginning but it only lasted perhaps a month before xMM backed down from it.

 

I'm curious to hear from others who never had any future faking and it was always meant to be discreet fun on the side.

 

Hi Lemon. xMM really did not do future faking. He did say he married the wrong person and wished he met me first (what a cliche') but he was clear that he was not unhappy in his marriage, he enjoyed being there and had no intention of leaving and starting over at 46. He had no relations with his wife (confirmed by W to my H) but it was enough for him. Having his life with her and me on the side, his world would have been perfect. He was honest that was his wish. He thought I was the short sighted and immature one. He thinks I wrecked it all. He loved me, still does but the whole marriage thing has nothing to do with love to him. He made a vow to her and he will keep it.

[RRM321]

Hi Lemon. xMM really did not do future faking. He did say he married the wrong person and wished he met me first (what a cliche') but he was clear that he was not unhappy in his marriage, he enjoyed being there and had no intention of leaving and starting over at 46. He had no relations with his wife (confirmed by W to my H) but it was enough for him. Having his life with her and me on the side, his world would have been perfect. He was honest that was his wish. He thought I was the short sighted and immature one. He thinks I wrecked it all. He loved me, still does but the whole marriage thing has nothing to do with love to him. He made a vow to her and he will keep it.

 

I could see the MM's perspective, however I don't think I could ever propose that arrangement to an OW. It just seems like such a sorry dead end deal - I don't think my conscience can make room for it. I suppose there could be an OW looking for exactly the same but, that seems too big a fantasy to buy into. (Of course, I suppose Ashley-Madison has apparently proved me wrong. )

Edited March 8, 2016 by RRM321

[ShatteredLady]

Doesn't it drive you CRAZY when someone (often/usually MM) sites their vows as being so very important?!? They don't intend to divorce, they're miserable but they made vows!!

 

How on earth can you break all of the vows but not divorce because you made vows? Ugh!! Utter bollocks!!

 

It's FEAR (or they're completely crap & they just want sex) What if they leave & you don't fill wife's role?? OMG they could end-up washing their own underwear! Unthinkable!!!

[MidnightBlue1980]

I could see the MM's perspective, however I don't think I could ever propose that arrangement to an OW. It just seems like such a sorry dead end deal - I don't think my conscience can make room for it. I suppose there could be an OW looking for exactly the same but, that seems too big a fantasy to buy into. (Of course, I suppose Ashley-Madison has apparently proved me wrong. )

 

It is a sorry dead end deal, which is why I turned it down. He is excellent at compartmentalizing and sadly, I don't think he's pretending. He tells me that it is very difficult for him to move on, and I do believe him, I bet he still thinks about me pretty often. But it is not like, what is (me) up to, what is she thinking or feeling, no, I know its more the physical stuff that he thinks about. And I am 100% sure he has no doubt that he made the right choice in staying in his marriage. In fact that was his point, he could not leave unless he knew it would work out with me, he was not going to leave to be alone. And I will admit, I never even tried to say it would work out. I didn't want things that way. His plan was we would get to know each other and see if it would work out, and then leave. I said no, that was not fair to our spouses and certainly not to me. The only person happy in that arrangement would be him.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Doesn't it drive you CRAZY when someone (often/usually MM) sites their vows as being so very important?!? They don't intend to divorce, they're miserable but they made vows!!

 

How on earth can you break all of the vows but not divorce because you made vows? Ugh!! Utter bollocks!!

 

It's FEAR (or they're completely crap & they just want sex) What if they leave & you don't fill wife's role?? OMG they could end-up washing their own underwear! Unthinkable!!!

 

I agree. I said in response, you made other vows but that didn't stop you from taking off your pants.

 

He just said, you're right.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Thanks lemon, i really appreciate this insight from another OW.

 

From reading so many of these threads now, one thing that keeps coming out is how angry the OW can feel post affair, whereas the MMs usually feel sad, guilty, confused and lost. Is that a fair assessment?

 

This is often due to the OW feeling that the MM is guilty of future faking or lies. But in cases where both partners knew the score at the beginning, and no future faking or massive lies occurred, why is it often the case that the OW is usually more angry towards the MM after an affair than the other way round? Any ideas guys?

 

At least for me, most OW are ruled by their hearts and when we say we love someone, we would burn the whole town down to be with them. So we do not understand how you can say you love us - and worse, we believe you really mean it - but you are choosing a life of martyrdom, being with the person you say you made a mistake marrying instead of the person you say you love, us, out of some misguided loyalty to a person you don't want to be with and really, you should actually set free to find someone who loves her, since you don't. So we get hurt and so angry because you are too blind to see what is right in front of your face. You are throwing it all away.

 

I'm not saying this is YOU Jenkins but it sure describes my xMM as well as a lot of other guys I read about. And as a wife, if my husband was here posting about he was counting his days out of NC and struggling to get over his OW, honestly, we really should end the marriage. I am not runner up.

 

I'm different I know. I know when xMM's wife spoke to H, she was so thankful xMM was willing to work on their marriage. I guess she was not runner up as he had no intention to leave but he was and probably is, very happy to have a LTA on the side of their marriage. And she knows this as my H told her everything. But she didn't care. It was enough.

[RRM321]

At least for me, most OW are ruled by their hearts and when we say we love someone, we would burn the whole town down to be with them. So we do not understand how you can say you love us - and worse, we believe you really mean it -

 

 

See, this is the lie to yourself that gets you into an affair - where the MM is portrayed as doing this voodoo dance all by himself.

 

I tell you: "I love you, let's get involved." You know I'm already involved in a marriage (unavailable) - yet, despite the blatant contradiction you project an integrity upon those words that is utterly absent in the context. You have to suspend your own reality in order to do that - to step on stage and adopt this dance of meaningless words as your own.

 

You've got to be in place in your life where one foot is already on the dance floor - otherwise, you'd see this voodoo coming from a mile away.

 

You go NC because in a fantasy dance of meaningless words - it's the only thing that will stop the music.

Edited March 8, 2016 by RRM321

[ShatteredLady]

How many MM do you see on here or any forum like it 'counting the NC days'?

[Cymbeline]

See, this is the lie to yourself that gets you into an affair - where the MM is portrayed as doing this voodoo dance all by himself.

 

I tell you: "I love you, let's get involved." You know I'm already involved in a marriage (unavailable) - yet, despite the blatant contradiction you project an integrity upon those words that is utterly absent in the context. You have to suspend your own reality in order to do that - to step on stage and adopt this dance of meaningless words as your own.

 

You've got to be in place in your life where one foot is already on the dance floor - otherwise, you'd see this voodoo coming from a mile away.

 

You go NC because in a fantasy dance of meaningless words - it's the only thing that will stop the music.

 

Jenkins said earlier that men and women understand 'au love you' differently.

This is another part of the lie. They know all too well the effect this will have on women - usually younger, often vulnerable and inevitably emotionally driven.

 

The men like the benefits to themselves of using these words and I believe they understand full well the devastation likely to ensue, but they don't care enough. They know they can throw up their hands and protest that they cannot do anything about it. They are married don't you know? You knew the deal. What about the kids? If only you had been first.

 

You can bet your life they didn't bandy 'I love yous' around so blithely when they built their relationships with the woman they married, and if they were to divorce and pursue a woman openly,the same would apply. They would be far more cautious. The reckless abandon is a direct result of the perfect excuse they have for not delivering what they absolutely know they are promising.

[jenkins95]

Jenkins said earlier that men and women understand 'au love you' differently.

This is another part of the lie. They know all too well the effect this will have on women - usually younger, often vulnerable and inevitably emotionally driven.

 

The men like the benefits to themselves of using these words and I believe they understand full well the devastation likely to ensue, but they don't care enough. They know they can throw up their hands and protest that they cannot do anything about it. They are married don't you know? You knew the deal. What about the kids? If only you had been first.

 

You can bet your life they didn't bandy 'I love yous' around so blithely when they built their relationships with the woman they married, and if they were to divorce and pursue a woman openly,the same would apply. They would be far more cautious. The reckless abandon is a direct result of the perfect excuse they have for not delivering what they absolutely know they are promising.

 

I respect your words Cybeline, but I for one did not "know what I was doing" in the sense that you mean it above, when I used those words, and I didn't use them to manipulate. I simply exclaimed those words because I was happy in that moment and wanted top share it with OW. There was no sinister hidden intention or manipulation - I was just living in the moment.

 

Evil manipulator who knew exactly what he was doing: NOT GUILTY

 

Idiot, who behaved like a smitten teenager without any thought of the future or of consequences: GUILTY AS HELL

[Cymbeline]

'I respect your words Cybeline, but I for one did not "know what I was doing" in the sense that you mean it above, when I used those words, and I didn't use them to manipulate. I simply exclaimed those words because I was happy in that moment and wanted top share it with OW. There was no sinister hidden intention or manipulation - I was just living in the moment.

 

Evil manipulator who knew exactly what he was doing: NOT GUILTY

 

Idiot, who behaved like a smitten teenager without any thought of the future or of consequences: GUILTY AS HELL'

 

But, with respect, what kind of defence is ignorance and thoughtlessness? Are you suggesting that at no time during your affair (which I believe lasted over a year) did you mull over what you were saying to this woman and think to yourself that you were over promising and under delivering and that the balance would need paying at some stage? Not even when her boyfriend found out and left? Did that not give you pause for thought?

 

youbwere not living so fully and freely in the moment that you revealed your secret life to any other interested party - you knew when to keep quiet about your joy - that's both of you - she is equally at fault.

 

You are an adult with some life experience. You may have been confused and misguided, but no one who has embarked on parenthood can be entirely ignorant of the reality of love: that it entails care for others, not destruction. That it demands a high level of honesty and commitment. You must have known that whatever was going on, it was not a healthy kind of love, nor a sustainable one.

 

I understand people make mistakes, often serious ones and I believe in redemption, but I also believe this means looking at the darker side of oneself. I truly don't think this can be healed by some superficial self flagellation and semi humorous, self deprecating admission of idiocy. I think there are some very difficult questions to ask about one's ability to deceive so many, so utterly over

A prolonged period.

 

I don't think you are there yet. You are still whinging about the one that got away. I really believe you have some more troubling fish to fry. Try studying mindful behaviours; basic philosophical ideas about compassion ; the nature of happiness and how to life ones life in a way most likely to achieve that state - secular or religious (Buddhist is pretty clear and simple to understand if a little harder to consistently practise)

 

I think that if you do this - address yourself and your character, you will find that the attachment you retain is likely to fall away much less effort fully than your current experience.

 

Quite simply if one lives a life where one is aware of oneself and one's actions, there need be no other rules and boundaries, because true self awareness leads to compassion and makes it very difficult to engage in harmful activities.