Coming out of the affair fog... update from lemon 2 years later

[RRM321]

Jenkins said earlier that men and women understand 'au love you' differently.

This is another part of the lie. They know all too well the effect this will have on women - usually younger, often vulnerable and inevitably emotionally driven.

 

The men like the benefits to themselves of using these words and I believe they understand full well the devastation likely to ensue, but they don't care enough.

 

I think you have to separate predatory behavior from common selfishness. In a lot of cases - an affair is born of selfish ignorance, that uniquely human resourcefulness to fulfill needs or wants irrespective of any moral review. Both partners share this state when the affair moves forward. They are both denying the obvious.

 

There's no sense in using another lie to cover up the first one - this portrait of helpless women who become emotionally paralyzed by the words: "I Love You" even when spoken by a clearly unavailable suitor under terms of secrecy. That just isn't reality for all but the most egregious predators, and most vulnerable prey.

 

Men in long term affairs are simply lying to themselves, just as the woman does in response. Are they manipulators? Yes, because a lie is itself a manipulation. It also requires constant reaffirmation to maintain the delusion.

 

Women can also be predatory - consciously or unconsciously. There are plenty of threads about women crushing on and actually pursuing bosses, teachers, and committed, or otherwise already married men. Are they not already lying to themselves?

Edited March 8, 2016 by RRM321

[lemondrop21]

Woah, some great discussions on my lil' ole thread!

 

It is a sorry dead end deal, which is why I turned it down. He is excellent at compartmentalizing and sadly, I don't think he's pretending. He tells me that it is very difficult for him to move on, and I do believe him, I bet he still thinks about me pretty often. But it is not like, what is (me) up to, what is she thinking or feeling, no, I know its more the physical stuff that he thinks about. And I am 100% sure he has no doubt that he made the right choice in staying in his marriage. In fact that was his point, he could not leave unless he knew it would work out with me, he was not going to leave to be alone. And I will admit, I never even tried to say it would work out. I didn't want things that way. His plan was we would get to know each other and see if it would work out, and then leave. I said no, that was not fair to our spouses and certainly not to me. The only person happy in that arrangement would be him.

 

This was always my xMM too. Even in the beginning, during his most delusional time, his "plan" was that his wife would get counseling "to help her understand that the marriage was over" and meanwhile we would be "getting to know each other better." I'm sure he hoped that right around the time she accepted it was over, he would have won my commitment. He was never going to leave that marriage without someone to fall back on (though the reality, I think, is that he was never going to leave at all). In fairness, it would significantly reduce his exposure to his kids, so, barring serious abuse, why would he leave, if not for someone else?

 

How many MM do you see on here or any forum like it 'counting the NC days'?

 

Jenkins is... and I've seen a small handful of others. Usually they go away quickly though as they get slammed by BWs. They are suffering, but in silence. In so many instances, this is what men in most cultures are expected to do. Vulnerability = weakness = not manly = failure. This is the message we send men constantly.

 

Jenkins said earlier that men and women understand 'au love you' differently.

This is another part of the lie. They know all too well the effect this will have on women - usually younger, often vulnerable and inevitably emotionally driven.

 

The men like the benefits to themselves of using these words and I believe they understand full well the devastation likely to ensue, but they don't care enough. They know they can throw up their hands and protest that they cannot do anything about it. They are married don't you know? You knew the deal. What about the kids? If only you had been first.

 

You can bet your life they didn't bandy 'I love yous' around so blithely when they built their relationships with the woman they married, and if they were to divorce and pursue a woman openly,the same would apply. They would be far more cautious. The reckless abandon is a direct result of the perfect excuse they have for not delivering what they absolutely know they are promising.

 

I'm glad this was posted, as my xMM only ever said "I love you" twice, and one of those times was after the A ended. It drove me nuts during the A, but now I think I understand that he didn't want me to misinterpret the words as some sort of promise. "I love you, but I can't be with you" is a difficult sentiment to explain. Especially to a single OW.

[RRM321]

An affair is a dance that requires two liars. They can be lying to themsleves, each other, everyone, or all of the above.

 

The affair ends when one of the dancers stops lying or a new instrument called reality shows up in the music.

[jenkins95]

'I respect your words Cybeline, but I for one did not "know what I was doing" in the sense that you mean it above, when I used those words, and I didn't use them to manipulate. I simply exclaimed those words because I was happy in that moment and wanted top share it with OW. There was no sinister hidden intention or manipulation - I was just living in the moment.

 

Evil manipulator who knew exactly what he was doing: NOT GUILTY

 

Idiot, who behaved like a smitten teenager without any thought of the future or of consequences: GUILTY AS HELL'

 

But, with respect, what kind of defence is ignorance and thoughtlessness? Are you suggesting that at no time during your affair (which I believe lasted over a year) did you mull over what you were saying to this woman and think to yourself that you were over promising and under delivering and that the balance would need paying at some stage? Not even when her boyfriend found out and left? Did that not give you pause for thought?

 

youbwere not living so fully and freely in the moment that you revealed your secret life to any other interested party - you knew when to keep quiet about your joy - that's both of you - she is equally at fault.

 

You are an adult with some life experience. You may have been confused and misguided, but no one who has embarked on parenthood can be entirely ignorant of the reality of love: that it entails care for others, not destruction. That it demands a high level of honesty and commitment. You must have known that whatever was going on, it was not a healthy kind of love, nor a sustainable one.

 

I understand people make mistakes, often serious ones and I believe in redemption, but I also believe this means looking at the darker side of oneself. I truly don't think this can be healed by some superficial self flagellation and semi humorous, self deprecating admission of idiocy. I think there are some very difficult questions to ask about one's ability to deceive so many, so utterly over

A prolonged period.

 

I don't think you are there yet. You are still whinging about the one that got away. I really believe you have some more troubling fish to fry. Try studying mindful behaviours; basic philosophical ideas about compassion ; the nature of happiness and how to life ones life in a way most likely to achieve that state - secular or religious (Buddhist is pretty clear and simple to understand if a little harder to consistently practise)

 

I think that if you do this - address yourself and your character, you will find that the attachment you retain is likely to fall away much less effort fully than your current experience.

 

Quite simply if one lives a life where one is aware of oneself and one's actions, there need be no other rules and boundaries, because true self awareness leads to compassion and makes it very difficult to engage in harmful activities.

 

Very well said Cymbeline, and very fair too. I will read and think a lot about what you have said and will follow your advice. I would be extremely grateful if you could send me a PM with any links that you feel may be a good starting point to studying the mindful behaviours/philosophical ideas that you allude to. I'm sure it could really help a lot.

 

As a final word, I would just like to say that I did do and say irresponsible things and I should have considered more the effect it would have on her. I take that on board, admit and accept it and will regret what I did to two good women for the rest of my life. But I really must insist that there was no evil master plan. I didn't ever think - I want A, so I will say B to get it. It really wasn't like that in my case. And I didn't lie either (other than the huge lie that the whole A was - on both our parts). I really didn't mull over things to the extent that you suggest in your post. Nagging thoughts did occasionally enter my mind - but I just pushed them away. I'm not proud of that - which is worse, manipulator or fool? But I definitely fit into the latter category.

 

On her part, she also carefully guarded her primary relationship and never talked of leaving - she only starting pressuring me on that after her BF discovered and walked away. Her R ending, was the beginning of the end - that's when the bubble burst and we really did start having the tough talks. We were both selfish fools, but I was older and had more experience and responsibilities. I should have seen what was happening much earlier - instead I buried my head in the sand and just let it continue to D-day. Stupid.

Edited March 8, 2016 by jenkins95

[RRM321]

Torn between two lovers - is like standing at a crossroad. Both are believed to lead to some promise land, one of which was not on your map. This is why people change the rules - because the map is incomplete.

[Cymbeline]

'I think you have to separate predatory behavior from common selfishness. In a lot of cases - an affair is born of selfish ignorance, that uniquely human resourcefulness to fulfill needs or wants irrespective of any moral review. Both partners share this state when the affair moves forward. They are both denying the obvious.

 

There's no sense in using another lie to cover up the first one - this portrait of helpless women who become emotionally paralyzed by the words: "I Love You" even when spoken by a clearly unavailable suitor under terms of secrecy. That just isn't reality for all but the most egregious predators, and most vulnerable prey.

 

Men in long term affairs are simply lying to themselves, just as the woman does in response. Are they manipulators? Yes, because a lie is itself a manipulation. It also requires constant reaffirmation to maintain the delusion.

 

Women can also be predatory - consciously or unconsciously. There are plenty of threads about women crushing on and actually pursuing bosses, teachers, and committed, or otherwise already married men. Are they not already lying to themselves?'

 

Thank you for this - it is helpful. I am having a bit of trouble with following my own advice today - forgiveness through mindfulness and compassion seems to be escaping me just at the moment - can you all tell? :-/

[jenkins95]

I am having a bit of trouble with following my own advice today

 

I'm with you on that one Cymbeline!

 

Keep posting - yours are always very thought provoking and insightful.

 

Things will get better....soon!

[Popsicle]

It is always wrong to engage in an A, and there are measures (mainly of avoidance) one can take to subvert that, but no one can or should be expected to walk around being completely 100% lucid all the time. If you did that then no one would EVER fall in love with anyone. And frankly, I wouldn't want to live in a world like that and am so glad it's not really like that. We're just human.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Finger pointing. Who did what worse. I've been there. And I continue to ponder as I heal but I am somewhat trapped in a unique situation where I see xMM on a weekly basis. I'm 11 weeks out and it's been a journey. Weeks one to maybe 4, xMM was mean and NC with me, ignoring me in the same room. I was borderline suicidal, reaching out as if for a life preserver but he hid within the confines of his world. Weeks 4 to 10, he was trying to act normal while I ping ponged between friendly one week and hating him the next. All weeks full of crying, pain, intense horrible death-like emotions. Dying. Roller coaster - up up up when I saw him, communication that day, then he would stop and down down down till I stabilized. See him the next week. Repeat.

 

Week 10 - 11, he finally was honest about it killing him, loves me and has been pretending, trying to get over, hiding his emotions but its not working. In some mercy of the universe, at that same time as him telling me that, my pain and suffering just went away. I felt validated. I still had feelings, but it was different. So here we are today and he says to use his work email to contact him, which supports my belief that he is crazy or looking to just do himself in as its her family's company, so he says to just text him, he really needs to be friends.

 

I said, the thing is, while I'm not mad anymore and I probably could be friends actually, we are not supposed to be friends. We told our spouses we would not do this. No response as is typical of him. Shutdown. I see it clearly now, he will never leave but he is desperate to hold onto to something with me, even if its just a few texts and a weekly in person event. But at what cost to me. That's his life, he is choosing to be there.

 

No one is good or bad here. We are all human, some of us imprisoned by our desires and our lack of courage to change a situation in which we are miserable. Maybe that is a bad marriage, maybe that is a destructive affair. For me, 100% its the latter. I KNOW this guy will only cause me pain, yet I admit, it's tough to put that final nail in the coffin. But I am really getting better. Today was beautiful out and I felt happy. I felt potential in the air, spring, life. I feel myself letting go of xMM and the past. But I admit, it's hard.

 

I guess what I want to know is, why would I continue to love someone who cared so little about me and to this day would easily use me if I let him? What does that say about him and what does that say about me?

[RRM321]

What does that say about him and what does that say about me?

 

For you it's about restoring something - vitality, youth, etc. You're the only one who can really figure that out. A lot of times an affair is about staving off mortality, or reclaiming lost opportunities. We're really looking for a new self rather than a new partner.

 

Occasionally, the loss trigger are obvious - the passing of a parent, empty nest, career changes or stagnation, etc. Other times is something smoldering and just waiting to be tapped.

[MidnightBlue1980]

For you it's about restoring something - vitality, youth, etc. You're the only one who can really figure that out. A lot of times an affair is about staving off mortality, or reclaiming lost opportunities. We're really looking for a new self rather than a new partner.

 

Occasionally, the loss trigger are obvious - the passing of a parent, empty nest, career changes or stagnation, etc. Other times is something smoldering and just waiting to be tapped.

 

I like this because it's about me and I can work with myself. Endless possibilities and more positive than sitting here wondering about him and why he is staying where he is.

[lemondrop21]

I've had several people inquiring on other threads about how I am. I am... okay. I'm not breaking down, but I am going through a lot. I'm not really looking for advice from these boards right now, just posting what I'm going through in case it helps someone else, and because you guys have been asking how I'm doing and that means a lot to me. Lovetoohard, Midnight, Grey Cloud, Jenkins, imperfectangel, yodel, force and others... thank you for your thoughts and messages on other threads and PMs from some of you, too. I really appreciate all of your support.

 

I broke NC about a week and a half ago on a sudden whim. I was on day 20 or so of my irrepressible rage (and 5 weeks of almost-entirely NC except for the brief, meaningless texting slip-up). I broke. I told him how hurt and angry he had made me. Suddenly the hurt and anger and confusion was all out there in the open, from both of us. There were a few days of intense conversations, followed by a couple days of not talking at all. We utterly exhausted each other.

 

Most of it was talking in circles, but one item that stuck out was this: at one point I said, "It seems like if, a year ago, your marriage was the way it is now, this never would have started between us" and he said "that's probably true" (his m has improved in recent months). I asked him why he didn't just talk to her w BEFORE trying to start things with me. He said he doesn't know.

 

Towards the end of the week, he told me that he wants the A back. Here is what I posted on another thread:

 

"xMM told me point blank yesterday that he wants the A back, he wants to 'have it all,' to 'have his cake and eat it too.' He actually used those words."

 

"...In the midst of something that is entirely based on a lie, his broken soul has somehow found a way to give himself points for honesty. He says 'I don't really know how I'm justifying this, but I am' and 'I will have to work through the guilt of betraying my w and kids for the rest of my life, no matter what.' So his logic has become, 'I already f***ed this up, may as well continue.'

 

If there had been a DDay it most certainly would be different, but right now he feels like an invincible puppet-master. He says he hates himself for all of this. But in his mind, if he can find a way to keep w happy, kids happy and OW (me) happy, it lessens the self-hatred... even though it's all based on an illusion! He hated the withdrawals during NC, and all the times I refused to respond to him. He can't stand the idea that anyone hates him or is rejecting him. He wants to be worshiped by all, in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, he'll then be able to love himself.

 

The strong, confident, personable man at the office who I was originally attracted to, has turned out to be weak, broken and empty. He was trying to break NC, and now wants to continue the A, to try and find relief from the self-loathing, even though the affair is both a cause and symptom of it. He wants reassurance that I still love and accept him. It's an enormous paradox to be sure."

 

 

So where do we stand now? I have not agreed to continue the A, but I also have not gone back to NC (I'm sure some would say that the A is continuing then, as long as we are out of NC). What I did do is have back to back therapy sessions on Wednesday and Thursday. My therapist and I talked about why some part of me is still drawn to this affair and this man, when most people would, at this stage, be completely done with it. After all, he's stated that he's staying with w and there's no chance of a future for us. There are many ways in which his behavior disgusts and repulses me, and at this point, I don't think I would want him for myself if he was actually available.

 

Lots of interesting things were uncovered and I've been doing some intense self-reflection this weekend. Growing up, I was the parent to my mother and that's never changed; I still take on that role and struggle with it constantly. I am a helper, and I have this compulsion to try and help "fix" people in order to feel needed and to win their love. My father is even worse than I am. He will do anything to try and "fix" people and situations at work, to the point where it consumes him entirely. Without a person or situation to fix, I think he would be lost. My mother was that person for a long time, and that relationship was incredibly toxic. Neither my father nor I have ever been able to fix my mother.

 

With MM, I feel needed, because I fill a hole in his life and his marriage. Even though his marriage has improved a great deal, there is a part of him that is closed off from his w, that he reveals to me. He is broken, and so am I. Two broken people who have each been filling needs for the other, in a sad, dysfunctional, disrespectful way. I am overwhelmed with this realization, but it's been so very valuable to me. From here, I feel that I can start to work out how to move forward in my life.

 

I think that truly moving on from an affair takes a lot of internal work, for anyone involved. We can all post here about breaking NC/keeping NC, did he contact me/not contact me, and so on, but at least for some of us, I think the real healing probably occurs when we figure out our own reasons for getting into the A, define what we want in our present and future, and start to forgive ourselves for the pain that we caused. If we are in a primary relationship and trying to reconcile, that's a whole other layer, but that's not my situation, so I can't comment on it.

 

I actually think that my therapist is a bit too "functionally oriented" for my needs at times, so I'm glad that this past week's sessions have gone deeper. Yes, sometimes I need to be held accountable for keeping up with work and friends and holding my life together. But I also need to examine those deeper parts of myself, so that I don't keep repeating the same patterns within relationships (non-affairs still have plenty of potential to be unhealthy).

 

So, at the moment, I'm going to do less posting on LS on my day to day dealings with MM because my focus has shifted to something deeper. My conversations with him in the past week have further illuminated the situation for me, and there's been a shift inside. Although the beginning of this post was more of a "recap," my mental focus is not about his relationship with w or his family anymore... my focus is on me now. Kieraglass's thread has been sobering to me, too. Life is precious and can change in an instant.

 

On a final note side note, I'm not advocating breaking NC or any such thing. It's brought me plenty of pain, and I probably could have come to all of these realizations eventually without any MM interaction. So to all of you on these boards who are in NC (most of the regulars, I think), you have my continued support and admiration. Sending hugs to all of you.Lemon

Edited March 19, 2016 by lemondrop21

[minimariah]

Lemon... i will be brutally honest.

 

i think you're using this "internal work" as an excuse to break the NC & to minimize the importance of that NC; your MM's marriage didn't improve AT ALL -- you're both deluding yourself if you think otherwise. he isn't committed and he's probably actually more unhappy than he was before.

 

2 things might happen - he'll finally leave the wife OR you'll be back in the affair; unfortunately, i don't think you're ready for anything else yet.

 

good luck.

[lemondrop21]

Lemon... i will be brutally honest.

 

i think you're using this "internal work" as an excuse to break the NC & to minimize the importance of that NC; your MM's marriage didn't improve AT ALL -- you're both deluding yourself if you think otherwise. he isn't committed and he's probably actually more unhappy than he was before.

 

2 things might happen - he'll finally leave the wife OR you'll be back in the affair; unfortunately, i don't think you're ready for anything else yet.

 

good luck.

 

Hi mini,

I don't mind your brutal honesty and I always appreciate your thoughts, on my thread and others. I think you're good at expressing both the logical and emotional sides of A dynamics, and I tend to agree with a lot of what you say.

 

Just to clarify, I didn't initially break NC for the sake of internal work; I broke it on impulse because I was in a rage, had been in a rage for 20 days, and wanted to go off on him. I'm not saying that was a mature or wise thing to do.

 

In the long term, NC is very important to my healing and moving on, I agree. What I meant in my post was that, as I'm reflecting on the A this past week, I am trying to focus on the deeper reasons of why it happened on my end, and the changes I need to make in my own life. As opposed to "I'm on day 18 of NC, how the hell am I going to get through this day, I wonder what he's thinking, I feel like I have the power right now because he's trying to break NC and I'm not responding" and so on.

 

I think the point you are making is that I need to decide to be in NC again, and thus out of the A. You are right that this will need to happen in order for me to move on, and that it needs to happen in a permanent, irreversible way.

 

You mentioned his m not actually being better... I don't care if it's better or not. He told me he's not leaving, so it isn't relevant to me. If he suddenly started saying the opposite, I would tell him to please not leave. I don't want that circus in my life.

 

I have a date scheduled for Tuesday with a single, available man. I will not be getting seriously involved with him at this point because it would not be fair to him; I have some work to do on myself. But I am continuing to take steps forward.

 

Thanks again, mini, for your thoughts, I do really appreciate your perspective.

Edited March 19, 2016 by lemondrop21

[Bufo]

Don't reject the single guy before you've gone out with him. Maybe he's crazy, but maybe he isn't. You have no way to know that now.

 

Before I met my wife she was an OW in a long term affair with a MM who never left his wife. Another cake eater. We were introduced (and I was with another girl at the time!). I didn't know this history, but my present history was sitting right next to me at the time. It would have been very easy for her to be cordial. But nothing more. Yet.....

 

I got her number from a mutual,acquaintance. And called her. Skipping to the end of the story, next month is our 30th anniversary. So I guess it turned out just fine.

 

Had she gone on that first date with a negative attitude, that would have been our last date.

 

It did take some indication of interest from her. She didn't fall in love right away, but I kept returning.

[jenkins95]

(((lemondrop)))

 

Good to see you posting on the boards again!

 

I know it's been such a mad few days with your MM, but great that you have it all in perspective, can see it for what it is and are committed to going into NC, despite his efforts to hook you in. Well done for writing it all down here for LS members - hopefully that act was itself therapeutic. He does seem to be a cake eater - as a former cheater myself, his logic of 'I've already f***** this up, I may as well continue' almost puts a smile on my face - it reminds me very much of how my own mind worked in some of my lower moments during my selfishness, although I didn't resort to what he proposed. The only positive thing about his behaviour is that at least he is not future faking - he has at least honestly said that he is not leaving. The thing is, this arrangement could work for him if he is that good at compartmentalising and wants to eat cake, but all it can do for you is get you more and more hooked on him, leading to more hurt, pain and delay your recovery. Also, how long could it realistically carry on without a D-day anyway? He's playing with fire, and as you say, you really don't want to be caught in that circus with angry fingers pointing at you if he goes into survival mode and plays the victim.

 

I'd love to see you be free of him - you seem like such a lovely, sensitive, intelligent person and it seems like such a waste of your time to be with this MM. Good luck on your date lemondrop - remember he's a lucky guy...... And you just never know where it may lead. Tell us all about it anyway! I'm sure MM would be green with envy of he knew - serve him right for playing with your feelings so much.

 

Thinking of you and will write more very soon. Jenkins

Edited March 20, 2016 by jenkins95

[MidnightBlue1980]

Hi mini,

I don't mind your brutal honesty and I always appreciate your thoughts, on my thread and others. I think you're good at expressing both the logical and emotional sides of A dynamics, and I tend to agree with a lot of what you say.

 

Just to clarify, I didn't initially break NC for the sake of internal work; I broke it on impulse because I was in a rage, had been in a rage for 20 days, and wanted to go off on him. I'm not saying that was a mature or wise thing to do.

 

In the long term, NC is very important to my healing and moving on, I agree. What I meant in my post was that, as I'm reflecting on the A this past week, I am trying to focus on the deeper reasons of why it happened on my end, and the changes I need to make in my own life. As opposed to "I'm on day 18 of NC, how the hell am I going to get through this day, I wonder what he's thinking, I feel like I have the power right now because he's trying to break NC and I'm not responding" and so on.

 

I think the point you are making is that I need to decide to be in NC again, and thus out of the A. You are right that this will need to happen in order for me to move on, and that it needs to happen in a permanent, irreversible way.

 

You mentioned his m not actually being better... I don't care if it's better or not. He told me he's not leaving, so it isn't relevant to me. If he suddenly started saying the opposite, I would tell him to please not leave. I don't want that circus in my life.

 

I have a date scheduled for Tuesday with a single, available man. I will not be getting seriously involved with him at this point because it would not be fair to him; I have some work to do on myself. But I am continuing to take steps forward.

 

Thanks again, mini, for your thoughts, I do really appreciate your perspective.

 

Hi Lemon. I did the back and forth as well with NC, communication, NC, circular going nowhere talking. I can tell you that as long as you do not get back into the affair, you will simple eventually be talked out. You will see it is pointless, going nowhere drama. At first it actually feels like of empty, like when you try on a dress you used to feel fabulous in and now you look at yourself and think, exactly what did I see in this dress? The dress didn't change. You did. But then you stick it in the poor bag and go buy a new dress. And never think about that dress again unless you see it in pictures and think, that dress really was not for me.

 

You never know who you may meet out there. I met H after 3 years with my ex, a permanently separated man. This was a man I never thought I'd get over. 3 years together as I waited patiently for him to file. 3 months after I ended it, I met H and I swear, I never looked back. It can happen to you too.

[Popsicle]

Don't reject the single guy before you've gone out with him. Maybe he's crazy, but maybe he isn't. You have no way to know that now.

 

Before I met my wife she was an OW in a long term affair with a MM who never left his wife. Another cake eater. We were introduced (and I was with another girl at the time!). I didn't know this history, but my present history was sitting right next to me at the time. It would have been very easy for her to be cordial. But nothing more. Yet.....

 

I got her number from a mutual,acquaintance. And called her. Skipping to the end of the story, next month is our 30th anniversary. So I guess it turned out just fine.

 

Had she gone on that first date with a negative attitude, that would have been our last date.

 

It did take some indication of interest from her. She didn't fall in love right away, but I kept returning.

 

Yes, listen to this, Lemondrop.

 

I'd like to see you go NC and leave MM in the past.

[Bufo]

A skipped point in my story was the my now wife decided that it was time for her to see what was out there. So she ended the A (at least I think she did but I never asked who ended it or how) and was at least open to possibilities. I'm no prize but at least I wasn't a MM taking advantage of her.

 

Of course MM needs you. His ego requires the adoration of two women. One for real life and one for fun.

[Forceawakensme]

LemonDrop, i think you're actually making amazing progress.. I can understand your 'strategy' completely. I know its not the usually recommended NC scorch the earth road but i see merits to what you're doing. Sudden NC, overnight NC used to create drama and tension for me and made me miss him. It sent me into a panic. Now, i have not deleted accounts (and yes do check the email account and have read several of his emails -- all very typical and cliche.. what i would expect him to say now that he is in sucking up / kissing my ass .. i love you ' mode.. but im reading them to satisfy my curiosity, getting my fill of everything hes saying.. and its starting to get repetitive and boring. If i had deleted account i would be craving it. --- I dont know if i am doing the right thing or not -- maybe im not -- but it FEELS right because i FEEL done with the affair. And its the first time ive truly felt that. I honestly feel like im reading emails that someone on here posted from their MM and feel like i can objectively see how full of crap he is. How predictable and how everything is geared toward getting his ego stroked again. Something i will never do again. I rsponded to one email that he wrote about seeing me and it simply said 'i truly meant everything i said the other day, i will only hold fond memories but i am moving forward now'. He also sent me a funny political thing, to which i wrote 'lol' back and thats it. I feel fine with all of this.. im not craving more. I just see it all for what it is.

 

Internal work is great. I am definitely starting on that road. Posting here is helping .. as is reading so, so much. I see a shift in you (even saying you see him as weak etc etc) -- You will get there hon... Do what feels right for you. Dont freak yourself... Be gentle and head toward the ultimate goal of detangling yourself from this guy and heading toward a healthy relationship.

 

The world is full of interesting people, now you can just breath and enjoy getting to know them all! xMM's are such distractions from all the great things in life!

Edited March 20, 2016 by Forceawakensme

[minimariah]

i hope you'll have fun on your date, Lemon!

[lemondrop21]

Thanks, mini and others. I'm looking forward to my date on Tuesday and will post an update afterwards. It isn't a first date either - we've known each other as friends for a year and have been on several dates. I've pulled away in the past and have told him that I wasn't ready, and he's told me to let him know when/if I am ready, and he's continued to date other women in the meantime (though nothing serious to my knowledge).

 

The other day, I told this guy that I think I'm ready now for casual, non-committed dating. We'll see where it goes.

 

I like that he asks me questions that show he is genuinely interested in getting to know all parts of me. MM tended to focus our conversations on fun and casual things; after all, why would he want to know about my uncle who died recently, or my friends back home, or anything else that makes me a real, complete human being with a real, complete life apart from him, when he can't be in a real, complete relationship with me?

 

MM was in a training at work all day today with no cell phones allowed, and it will be the same tomorrow, so no opportunity for contact. I am feeling very "meh" about the whole thing today. The basic setup of the A simply isn't compelling to me anymore, even putting aside the problematic morality, lack of a future, and so on. Why would I want to continue to meet someone once a week for sex and waste my time having meaningless chats during work hours? Guess what? I can go on real dates instead .

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Lemon,

 

I agree with everyone else, it's going to all seem a bit hollow now. One thing when you are caught up in the highs in the midst of an A, but to have had a break and you have gained some much needed perspective, I feel you are no longer going to settle for second best. And if a d-day happened you would be thrown under the bus and would hurt more than ever! Sometimes we need to analyse and learn more ourselves to truly break free. Thinking of you!

[yodelwithyu]

Lemon, I've been absent, I am sorry. But you have been on my mind. I hope you are doing well and that you remember, whatever path you chose to heal, we are here for you.

 

Xoxo

Y

[lemondrop21]

To preface, I will NEVER do this. Ever. It would hurt children who don't deserve to be hurt and ultimately is selfish on my part. But I need to vent/fantasize so I am doing that here -

 

There is this evil part of me that wants to blackmail xMM in order to make him leave our community. I want to tell him that he has 6 months to find a job elsewhere and go, otherwise on September 31 his wife will receive a package from me containing his emails and photo evidence... and then they would definitely leave as that crisis unfolded. She wouldn't leave him (well, maybe temporarily) but she would insist on leaving here and moving back to their home country, I'm sure. So, regardless of how they leave, this would give me peace and would allow me to move on without constantly worrying whether I'm going to see them at the grocery store or the movie theater or some community event.

 

I just get so angry sometimes because he doesn't deserve to stay here and make my life miserable and get his damn promotion and walk around like a proud peacock with everyone thinking he's such a wonderful guy, and me having to always watch out for his family everywhere and suffer silently. He came after me, he told me his marriage was dead and blah blah, yes I played my part in this but it sickens me that he gets off Scot-free.

 

Again, guys, I'm not actually going to disclose or blackmail or anything. I'm not that evil, I just have dark moments. Besides, it would potentially destroy my reputation as well. At the end of they day I have absolutely no power.