MM ends affair to do things the right way?

[RoseVille]

And so do you.

Make that decision for him.

Nothing good will come of this for you, unless you walk away.

 

"Stop wearing your wishbone where your backbone ought to be."

[velvette]

Whenever an explanation is this convoluted, I assume the person is confused to the point of being toxic and hurtful, or they aren't telling the full truth.

 

 

It simply isn't that complicated.

 

 

If his marriage was over, he would file for D. Further if he wanted a R with you, he would get on that pronto, tell you exactly what steps he was taking, how long each one would take, and give you an ongoing progress report that made sense.

 

 

Until then, I think its safe to assume he cant deal with conflict either with his W(which is likely one reason his M is in trouble) or with you. I would assume he was letting me down easy, so I didn't hassle him.

[Gloria_Smellons]

I think at some point pretty much every OW (OM?) tries to convince themselves that their case is somehow different and/or special.

 

Like everyone else here I don't seem to see anything I haven't seen before.

 

If he wanted to 'end things the right way', he'd simply explain to his wife - however painful that would be - that he was no longer fully invested in the marriage and he wished to divorce. Instead he seems to be giving her time to think things through.

 

I actually think this is a good thing - if the eventual goal is to get the marriage back on track. If he wants to separate, the fact is that it's very unlikely to end up being a mutual decision in this case, so he'd have to put on his big boy pants and start making that happen.

 

That's a scary prospect. That's real, that's difficult, and may end up being the beginning of the end. From what you've said, he just doesn't sound ready for that kind of change.

 

I'm sorry that you're hurting, but lots of people choose the familiarity of the known over the possibility of an unknown future. Human nature I suppose.

[Bucket]

Whenever an explanation is this convoluted, I assume the person is confused to the point of being toxic and hurtful, or they aren't telling the full truth.

 

 

It simply isn't that complicated.

 

 

If his marriage was over, he would file for D. Further if he wanted a R with you, he would get on that pronto, tell you exactly what steps he was taking, how long each one would take, and give you an ongoing progress report that made sense.

 

 

Until then, I think its safe to assume he cant deal with conflict either with his W(which is likely one reason his M is in trouble) or with you. I would assume he was letting me down easy, so I didn't hassle him.

 

 

Yes, I agree with you totally. I don't think he can deal with conflict with his wife. That's exactly it. I'm not sure what he was doing with me because he continued to instigate contact after we had agreed not to see each other until I said I would not communicate with him as I needed to move on. I have no doubt that he is a conflict avoider, as so many people are. I've done it.

 

It is early days, but I'm pretty confident he will respect my wishes, least of all that we work in the same area and I have to deal with seeing him on a daily basis. For me, NC is an absolute must and non-negotiable other than when it's necessary at work.

 

 

I think he is massively confused, and I think it wasn't until he took his head out of the sand at the beginning of April that he realised, as I did too that it was far more complicated for him (for whatever reason) than he initially thought. That is why I think it has come to the A ending because he ultimately realised that whatever is actually going on at home is not something he feels he can walk away from that easily. He said himself he was naïve in thinking it could be achieved so easily. Don't ask me what that means because I don't know!

 

 

I was just telling my story so I could get some support from people who had had similar experiences and strengthen my resolve to move on

[RoseVille]

I may have missed it, but how long ago did he end it? And have you been in contact at all since?

[beach]

In my experience - the ones who avoid conflict never actually end up divorcing.

[MissBee]

The way he's putting the ball in his wife's court is very strange and inconsistent to everything else he's told you.

 

I agree.

 

Particularly reading what he said in the first post, he made it seem like his wife would happily agree to divorce him since they led separate lives anyway and she was apparently indifferent to him. Now she has to decide, it's in her court, and all the rest.

 

Bucket, I meant to ask what you meant when you said that MM was dealing with the end of another relationship (or something to that effect)? Did he have a previous affair?

 

I don't think all MM go out of their way to lie, but sometimes they exaggerate some things, down play others, and maybe do so without even thinking too deeply about it or they truthfully perceive things one way that is completely different from how their wives see it, or half the time the complaints they make to the OW or other people aren't ones they make to their wives so it's all a big surprise when they finally voice it. It seems that most, consciously or not when discussing their Ms to the OW play up how close it is to ending and play up the fact that their wives know the score and all it is now is for them to both sign on the dotted line and say their goodbyes...however reality is usually that when it comes down to it, it's way more complicated and half of what they said are just things they've projected or hoped in their minds but don't match their daily interactions in real life with their wives and doesn't reflect what page the marriage actually looks like it's on.

 

Anyway, he'll sort it out or he won't. All you can do is do what's best for yourself and just consider it over. I think considering it over will help you move on should it come to it that he is really not getting a divorced or not any time soon and if surprise he does get it together, you can start fresh if it's worth it without all the resentment which comes from waiting in the wings.

Edited May 9, 2015 by MissBee

[Bucket]

I think at some point pretty much every OW (OM?) tries to convince themselves that their case is somehow different and/or special.

 

Like everyone else here I don't seem to see anything I haven't seen before.

 

If he wanted to 'end things the right way', he'd simply explain to his wife - however painful that would be - that he was no longer fully invested in the marriage and he wished to divorce. Instead he seems to be giving her time to think things through.

 

I actually think this is a good thing - if the eventual goal is to get the marriage back on track. If he wants to separate, the fact is that it's very unlikely to end up being a mutual decision in this case, so he'd have to put on his big boy pants and start making that happen.

 

That's a scary prospect. That's real, that's difficult, and may end up being the beginning of the end. From what you've said, he just doesn't sound ready for that kind of change.

 

I'm sorry that you're hurting, but lots of people choose the familiarity of the known over the possibility of an unknown future. Human nature I suppose.

 

 

Yes it's a good thing. If the A has allowed him to address the issues in his marriage and work on that then I will not be bitter, I will wish him the best. I couldn't have said it better myself...big boy pants! Don't think he is ready for that change, he lives a comfortable existence and they both do what they want. I think he's only just starting to deal with the possible reality of not having that, not forgetting the fact there's an impending decision on where they live which has to be made. He doesn't want to move, and she does, if not now for certain in a years time, and he won't be able to go. Anyway, I am fortunate, it ended early and recovery will be easier but slowed by the fact we work together. I don't really think my case is different at all, in fact it most certainly isn't.

[beach]

You seem to know a lot about their relationship.

 

Have you considered how disrespectful that is to her?

 

How would you like being his wife - and find out that your H has shared very personal info about the life together with an outside woman?

 

That just makes him not nice.

[Bucket]

I agree.

 

Particularly reading what he said in the first post, he made it seem like his wife would happily agree to divorce him since they led separate lives anyway and she was apparently indifferent to him. Now she has to decide, it's in her court, and all the rest.

 

Bucket, I meant to ask what you meant when you said that MM was dealing with the end of another relationship (or something to that effect)? Did he have a previous affair?

 

I don't think all MM go out of their way to lie, but sometimes they exaggerate some things, down play others, and maybe do so without even thinking too deeply about it or they truthfully perceive things one way that is completely different from how their wives see it, or half the time the complaints they make to the OW or other people aren't ones they make to their wives so it's all a big surprise when they finally voice it. It seems that most, consciously or not when discussing their Ms to the OW play up how close it is to ending and play up the fact that their wives know the score and all it is now is for them to both sign on the dotted line and say their goodbyes...however reality is usually that when it comes down to it, it's way more complicated and half of what they said are just things they've projected or hoped in their minds but don't match their daily interactions in real life with their wives and doesn't reflect what page the marriage actually looks like it's on.

 

Anyway, he'll sort it out or he won't. All you can do is do what's best for yourself and just consider it over. I think considering it over will help you move on should it come to it that he is really not getting a divorced or not any time soon and if surprise he does get it together, you can start fresh if it's worth it without all the resentment which comes from waiting in the wings.

 

 

Ah I meant dealing with this marriage breakdown, not another affair. As far as I know there have been no other affairs and I know there could have been or at least sexual encounters. I don't think he wants that at all. I think divorce terrifies him. This would be his second and his first was nasty. I get the impression he was still a bit bitter about it, and that he rushed into a second marriage due to location and job of him and his wife.

 

 

Thank you for your kind words. I've made clear I'm moving on because I know that I would be in an emotional mess keeping in contact and waiting and I need to be in a fresh place to start any relationship right now, be it with him or anyone else, so waiting is really not an option. It's just I haven't really spoken to anyone who's been through it so decided it might be a good idea.

[sandylee1]

OP

 

Sometimes the only person to look out for YOU is YOU.

Why not protect yourself from being part of this. If he leaves her, you still may have the ex wife to deal with.

 

With him trying to sort things out, I honestly think you should progress to other relationships with non committed men. You'd save yourself a whole lot of heartache.

[Bucket]

You seem to know a lot about their relationship.

 

Have you considered how disrespectful that is to her?

 

How would you like being his wife - and find out that your H has shared very personal info about the life together with an outside woman?

 

That just makes him not nice.

 

May be. He doesn't talk about her really, I just know things because of work and stuff.

[Bucket]

I may have missed it, but how long ago did he end it? And have you been in contact at all since?

 

 

We mutually ended it about 3 weeks ago. He continued texting as per normal, and a week later I enforced NC because it wasn't doing me any good. Apart from a couple of interactions at work for work things, no, there has been no contact whatsoever.

[RoseVille]

I think he is massively confused, and I think it wasn't until he took his head out of the sand at the beginning of April that he realised, as I did too that it was far more complicated for him (for whatever reason) than he initially thought. That is why I think it has come to the A ending because he ultimately realised that whatever is actually going on at home is not something he feels he can walk away from that easily. He said himself he was naïve in thinking it could be achieved so easily.

 

Holy cow. Same thing here. He thought it would be easy for him to balance me and his home life, and he realized how wrong he was, and that he can't walk away easily.

[Bucket]

Holy cow. Same thing here. He thought it would be easy for him to balance me and his home life, and he realized how wrong he was, and that he can't walk away easily.

 

Geez. I hope that you can move on too. Please let me know how it goes and how things progress

 

My MM should be walking away, he doesn't have the house and the kids either! I'll never understand!

[RoseVille]

Geez. I hope that you can move on too. Please let me know how it goes and how things progress

 

My MM should be walking away, he doesn't have the house and the kids either! I'll never understand!

 

If he hadn't been with his wife for 20 years (dating + marriage) with two young boys, I'd find his decision to stay totally incomprehensible.

 

The less entanglements, the less it makes sense that they'd stay in something that's making them truly unhappy.

[Hope Shimmers]

But you just said that length of a relationship has nothing to do with emotional connection.

 

The truth is that MM may say they are unhappily married, but it's not likely to be the whole story, and maybe not even true.

[Bucket]

If he hadn't been with his wife for 20 years (dating + marriage) with two young boys, I'd find his decision to stay totally incomprehensible.

 

The less entanglements, the less it makes sense that they'd stay in something that's making them truly unhappy.

 

 

They've been married 6.5 years. Married after 2. Married because they lived in different countries and a decision had to be made about their future. It wasn't the case of a visa or anything like that, he has dual nationality but yeah, there's nothing solid to tie him into it, only the family stuff and the fear of a second divorce. Clearly he'd never communicated how he was feeling and now he has well he didn't get the reaction he expected. Whether it ends or not, it is time to move on and it's been great reading everyone's comments. Thank you

[Quiet Storm]

I think many MM do feel genuine emotion for the OW, but they don't see those feelings important enough to change their lives.

 

Many single women make finding a relationship a big priority in their lives. If they find someone they think makes a good prospect for a relationship, often their thoughts revolve around the growing romance. Even during times apart, women often think about their relationships, analyzing conversations, thinking about the future, etc. A lot of brain space is given to new relationships, especially new ones, and it makes women feel connected.

 

I think most MM have accepted their marriage and don't want to change it. Even if their romantic connection has waned, MM still wants to be married to his wife. Even after the romance is gone, the family ties, history, building a life together is just seen as essential to the MM and serious thought about divorce is rarely considered. The typical MM loves his wife, even if he feels things are missing. He will just seek those missing things elsewhere. Whereas women think a great love and connection is something that is supposed to progress to a life together, MM are more likely to appreciate it in and of itself, with no expectations for the future or no driving need to change his life because those feelings exist.

 

Imagine a MM has a bucket for all his needs in life, and the wife fills up half of the bucket. MM logic isn't to dump the wife's half and find one person that can fill up his bucket. MM logic is to seek OW to fill up the rest of the bucket, this way he can keep his marriage and still feel content & happy.

 

OW isn't intended to replace his wife, but to supplement the marriage.

 

I do believe that many MM are sincere in their feelings towards OW. I just think that the intensity of those feelings have no bearing on whether the MM leaves his marriage or not. His marriage is an entity in and of itself, an important part of his life and identity. An affair is an indulgence, an escape. He can share an intense connection and genuinely feel everything he says to an OW in those passionate moments. But that intensity doesn't mean that he sees those feelings as essential to his life. It's like vacationing at a place he loves- he loves it, looks forward to it, misses it but in the grand scheme of life, it's just a vacation. He's not going to uproot his life and move there.

 

The reason that I am saying these things is because I see you making the same mistakes that many OW make- assuming that because you feel it to the bottom of your soul that your MMs feelings are genuine, that this will somehow change the outcome, that the feelings will prompt MM to divorce, etc. I see you defending him and the feelings you two shared, and I'm not here to tell you that it was all a lie. I'm here to tell you that yes, those feelings were real, but MM is still staying married.

 

I agree, the reason he isn't asking you to wait, is because he knows he's not getting divorced. A MM that truly wanted a divorce and to be with you would not take the risk of you meeting someone else. This guy realizes he can't meet your expectations and is setting you free.

 

Keep in mind that going forward, if you resume the affair when he's still married, he will conclude that regardless of what you say, you are OK with engaging with him while he's married. Right now, he sees that you don't want to be an OW. He knows he can't give you want you need and is letting you go. This is a crossroads that can result in being involved for years. You are at the point where you will be missing him so much that when he calls, you're likely to fall right back in it. And when OW do this (says she doesn't want to be an OW but continues it anyway), it tells MM that you'll tolerate his marriage because you love him so much, and that even though you demand he divorce, you'll meet his needs, regardless.

 

Let your brain drive your choices, not your heart.

[RoseVille]

But you just said that length of a relationship has nothing to do with emotional connection.

 

I said the length of the relationship doesn't invalidate an OW's pain.

 

That said... And?

 

Children and all of the trappings that come along with a family (mortgage, extended family, etc.) makes it a lot more difficult - if only from a practical standpoint - to leave. Young children just change the ballgame entirely.

 

BTW: Is this where I tell you I wasn't posting to you or to back off, like you did? Respect the boundaries you imposed, please.

[RoseVille]

They've been married 6.5 years. Married after 2. Married because they lived in different countries and a decision had to be made about their future. It wasn't the case of a visa or anything like that, he has dual nationality but yeah, there's nothing solid to tie him into it, only the family stuff and the fear of a second divorce. Clearly he'd never communicated how he was feeling and now he has well he didn't get the reaction he expected. Whether it ends or not, it is time to move on and it's been great reading everyone's comments. Thank you

 

Ohhhh he's been married before? Throw repeated failure into the mix of his reasons...

[RoseVille]

Quiet Storm: Wow. You articulated perfectly what I've been thinking (and what my friends and therapist have said). I just might print that out and carry it around with me.

 

Thank you.

[velvette]

Yes, I agree with you totally. I don't think he can deal with conflict with his wife. That's exactly it. I'm not sure what he was doing with me because he continued to instigate contact after we had agreed not to see each other until I said I would not communicate with him as I needed to move on. I have no doubt that he is a conflict avoider, as so many people are. I've done it.

 

It is early days, but I'm pretty confident he will respect my wishes, least of all that we work in the same area and I have to deal with seeing him on a daily basis. For me, NC is an absolute must and non-negotiable other than when it's necessary at work.

 

 

I think he is massively confused, and I think it wasn't until he took his head out of the sand at the beginning of April that he realised, as I did too that it was far more complicated for him (for whatever reason) than he initially thought. That is why I think it has come to the A ending because he ultimately realised that whatever is actually going on at home is not something he feels he can walk away from that easily. He said himself he was naïve in thinking it could be achieved so easily. Don't ask me what that means because I don't know!

 

 

I was just telling my story so I could get some support from people who had had similar experiences and strengthen my resolve to move on

 

 

As to the bolded, because it is easier to do something that makes him feel good or is fun than dealing with the conflict he feels over resolving his marriage. BTW yes we all avoid conflict at times, or engage in other activities to avoid doing something we should be doing but don't feel like doing.

 

 

The thing to be aware of with cheating MM is that it's not just a once in a while thing, its a pattern of behavior with most of them. To the extent that even if you end up in an out in the open R with them, it will persist and damage that R unless they get therapy.

[beach]

He's only been married 6.5 years. No kids, no common property ties...

 

He's standing there stating he isn't satisfied with his wife/marriage. She doesn't sound like she is all in either. HE is the owner of that. Yet he hasn't changed it... He's still "waiting for her" to do the changing.

 

 

And now he's got you in the distance - yet he hasn't let go of the M.

 

 

 

Ya know, there are people in life that make change happen. There are those who wait to see what changes others bring to them. He is the latter.

 

 

IF he divorces - it's not going to be because he took control and charge of HIS life. It's going to be that he followed her lead. The wife is in charge. He's just acting whimpy.

 

 

He may say he wants you - but he hasn't done the work that proves it to be real.

 

 

Why did his first M end? Who initiated that divorce?

Edited May 9, 2015 by beach

[Bucket]

I think many MM do feel genuine emotion for the OW, but they don't see those feelings important enough to change their lives.

 

Many single women make finding a relationship a big priority in their lives. If they find someone they think makes a good prospect for a relationship, often their thoughts revolve around the growing romance. Even during times apart, women often think about their relationships, analyzing conversations, thinking about the future, etc. A lot of brain space is given to new relationships, especially new ones, and it makes women feel connected.

 

I think most MM have accepted their marriage and don't want to change it. Even if their romantic connection has waned, MM still wants to be married to his wife. Even after the romance is gone, the family ties, history, building a life together is just seen as essential to the MM and serious thought about divorce is rarely considered. The typical MM loves his wife, even if he feels things are missing. He will just seek those missing things elsewhere. Whereas women think a great love and connection is something that is supposed to progress to a life together, MM are more likely to appreciate it in and of itself, with no expectations for the future or no driving need to change his life because those feelings exist.

 

Imagine a MM has a bucket for all his needs in life, and the wife fills up half of the bucket. MM logic isn't to dump the wife's half and find one person that can fill up his bucket. MM logic is to seek OW to fill up the rest of the bucket, this way he can keep his marriage and still feel content & happy.

 

OW isn't intended to replace his wife, but to supplement the marriage.

 

I do believe that many MM are sincere in their feelings towards OW. I just think that the intensity of those feelings have no bearing on whether the MM leaves his marriage or not. His marriage is an entity in and of itself, an important part of his life and identity. An affair is an indulgence, an escape. He can share an intense connection and genuinely feel everything he says to an OW in those passionate moments. But that intensity doesn't mean that he sees those feelings as essential to his life. It's like vacationing at a place he loves- he loves it, looks forward to it, misses it but in the grand scheme of life, it's just a vacation. He's not going to uproot his life and move there.

 

The reason that I am saying these things is because I see you making the same mistakes that many OW make- assuming that because you feel it to the bottom of your soul that your MMs feelings are genuine, that this will somehow change the outcome, that the feelings will prompt MM to divorce, etc. I see you defending him and the feelings you two shared, and I'm not here to tell you that it was all a lie. I'm here to tell you that yes, those feelings were real, but MM is still staying married.

 

I agree, the reason he isn't asking you to wait, is because he knows he's not getting divorced. A MM that truly wanted a divorce and to be with you would not take the risk of you meeting someone else. This guy realizes he can't meet your expectations and is setting you free.

 

Keep in mind that going forward, if you resume the affair when he's still married, he will conclude that regardless of what you say, you are OK with engaging with him while he's married. Right now, he sees that you don't want to be an OW. He knows he can't give you want you need and is letting you go. This is a crossroads that can result in being involved for years. You are at the point where you will be missing him so much that when he calls, you're likely to fall right back in it. And when OW do this (says she doesn't want to be an OW but continues it anyway), it tells MM that you'll tolerate his marriage because you love him so much, and that even though you demand he divorce, you'll meet his needs, regardless.

 

Let your brain drive your choices, not your heart.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write these words. They are truly helpful. I don't think I would ever go back, and honestly I don't think he would try unless he was single. I wholeheartedly understand and recognise these things in my situation and to be honest, as things were I would never expect that his feeling would be strong enough to give him the impetus to leave. It wasn't as if we declared love for one another or anything like that. He hinted at it but I refused to engage in that sort of conversation. I suppose I do and have tried to understand, I guess that's in mine and other womens in particular, natures. But I've been bitter about so many relationships in the past and let anger rule me so I guess I'm trying to be in a place where I see it as you've described above. I wish I'd had any clue about affairs before becoming involved in one, but I would have never entertained the idea and so never had the need to read about the psychology of them.

 

 

All these comments have been amazingly helpful and I'm struggling to keep up with responding to them all!