RoseVille Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 What does "love" even mean to these people anyway? If someone can look their spouse in the eye, or their "other" in the eye and say 'I love you" knowing all the while that they have another relationship ( affair, marriage) the what meaning do those words actually carry? Love doesn't necessarily mean monogamy. I love multiple friends, multiple family members. MM love multiple women, in a deep-care-for way, but are only "in love" with one of them. Link to post Share on other sites
jbrent890 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Yeah, I think it becomes habit, and I have no doubt that many WH love their BW in the way you love any family member, but aren't "in love" with her. It's also necessary to not have the BW get tipped off that something is amiss. If the ILY's stop, she'd notice. I wouldn't say many WHs feel this way. One of the things that has been mentioned a lot on this site is that men can compartamentalize these things a lot better than woman can a fact that a lot of OW hate hearing, which is completely understandable. Their affairs aren't "instead of" but usually "in addition to." Because you're relatively new here, you probably havent heard this yet, but for a lot of these men, they aren't having affairs to seek out something missing in their marriage because usually they get it regularly. Ask a lot of the BWs on here. I know it might suck to hear, but a lot of these men actually do love their wives and not in the manner you speak of. The issue is they love themselves more. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
RoseVille Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't say many WHs feel this way. One of the things that has been mentioned a lot on this site is that men can compartamentalize these things a lot better than woman can a fact that a lot of OW hate hearing, which is completely understandable. Their affairs aren't "instead of" but usually "in addition to." Because you're relatively new here, you probably havent heard this yet, but for a lot of these men, they aren't having affairs to seek out something missing in their marriage because usually they get it regularly. Ask a lot of the BWs on here. I know it might suck to hear, but a lot of these men actually do love their wives and not in the manner you speak of. The issue is they love themselves more. Just because I'm a new poster doesn't mean I'm a new reader. I've read practically the entire forum since the holidays last year. I have never seen a man say he's IN LOVE with two women at the same time. Love them, yes. But differently. Want both yes, but differently And yes, I believe saying "I love you" becomes a habit; I know because I've done it myself in a LTR when I wasn't in love with him, but did love him. Love is a choice. Edited May 14, 2015 by RoseVille Link to post Share on other sites
jbrent890 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Just because I'm a new poster doesn't mean I'm a new reader. I've read practically the entire forum since the holidays last year. I have never seen a man say he's IN LOVE with two women at the same time. Love them, yes. But differently. Want both yes, but differently And yes, I believe saying "I love you" becomes a habit; I know because I've done it myself in a LTR when I wasn't in love with him, but did love him. Love is a choice. I didn't mean that as a shot. Sorry if you took it that way. What I'm trying to say is for a lot of OW, they really do need to believe that their MM cared more than they actually did. I don't your MM, so maybe he did or didn't. What I do know is that a lot of OW are thrown under the bus or tossed aside when these things are discovered or when MM grows tired of the affair. I have read countless stories of these men saying things to their OW to keep the affair going. You're right, saying I love you is a choice, but actually meaning it isn't. When a lot of these men say these things like I love you to their OW, they are usually just telling them what they want to hear. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
RoseVille Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I didn't mean that as a shot. Sorry if you took it that way. What I'm trying to say is for a lot of OW, they really do need to believe that their MM cared more than they actually did. I don't your MM, so maybe he did or didn't. What I do know is that a lot of OW are thrown under the bus or tossed aside when these things are discovered or when MM grows tired of the affair. I have read countless stories of these men saying things to their OW to keep the affair going. You're right, saying I love you is a choice, but actually meaning it isn't. When a lot of these men say these things like I love you to their OW, they are usually just telling them what they want to hear. You're comparing women, who he loved more. It's more about comparing situations: comfortable vs the unknown. Safe vs uncertain. Mortgage/kids/extended family/reputation vs giddiness. It's easy to understand why, when forced to choose, he stays home. But obviously he's not really happy there, otherwise he wouldn't step out in the first place. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jbrent890 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 You're comparing women, who he loved more. It's more about comparing situations: comfortable vs the unknown. Safe vs uncertain. Mortgage/kids/extended family/reputation vs giddiness. It's easy to understand why, when forced to choose, he stays home. But obviously he's not really happy there, otherwise he wouldn't step out in the first place. Now you're building this guy up to be some honorable human being. He's not. If he wanted to leave his marriage, he would have left. Trust me when I say it really is as simple as that. Honorable men don't treat women the way he treated you and his wife. Again, men are usually very happy at home when they have affairs, they just want more. But maybe your MM is the exception. I hate to say it though, there is a huge possibility that he isn't. Men don't need to be unhappy in order to cheat. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
RoseVille Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Now you're building this guy up to be some honorable human being. He's not. If he wanted to leave his marriage, he would have left. Trust me when I say it really is as simple as that. No, I'm not. I'm simply acknowledging the complexities of these relationships and understanding of the fact that leaving a marriage with children and financial difficulties isn't as easy as some (like you) make it out to be. It's really not that simple or easy. Again, men are usually very happy at home when they have affairs, they just want more. Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Not one MM on the infidelity forum claims he was very happy at the time of his MM. Comfortable at best, but definitely not happy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Hope Shimmers Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 When a lot of these men say these things like I love you to their OW, they are usually just telling them what they want to hear. Again, men are usually very happy at home when they have affairs, they just want more. I'd really love to know where you get your data, jbrent. Did you take a survey of MM and OW? Is it from personal experience? Since you seem to have all the answers for everyone else. Does it somehow make you feel better to think that men in affairs are just out to get sex and don't really care about or love the person they are having an A with? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
jbrent890 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 No, I'm not. I'm simply acknowledging the complexities of these relationships and understanding of the fact that leaving a marriage with children and financial difficulties isn't as easy as some (like you) make it out to be. It's really not that simple or easy. Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Not one MM on the infidelity forum claims he was very happy at the time of his MM. Comfortable at best, but definitely not happy. Your basing your opinion on what you are reading now. There have been MM posting here for years, with some of them posting very different. However I'm not going to base my opinion from a site that only encompasses a modicum of the male cheating population. Mine comes from journal entries and other sites like this with most saying the same thing. Men can be happy and still cheat. This is just an observation, but judging from the threads and posts you have created, you really do need to believe that your MM chose his wife over you out of some since obligation. I'm going to leave this alone now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jbrent890 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I'd really love to know where you get your data, jbrent. Did you take a survey of MM and OW? Is it from personal experience? Since you seem to have all the answers for everyone else. Does it somehow make you feel better to think that men in affairs are just out to get sex and don't really care about or love the person they are having an A with? Did I say all men Hope? I'm sure there are men who actually do love their APs more. I'm just not going to say most. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Hope Shimmers Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Did I say all men Hope? I'm sure there are men who actually do love their APs more. I'm just not going to say most. No, you said most men don't. And the reality is, you can't generalize "most" of anything from the 'data' you gleaned from reading journal entries and online posts. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 It's easy to get involved because sex is an act of love. I'd bet most fall in love. Sex is an act of biology. It can be about love but it's certainly not by definition an act of love universally. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Adoraxx Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Actually, my xMM is one of those men who is happy in his marriage (he said so himself) and he even had the nerve to tell me the other day that he is crazy about his W. Makes no sense to me why he asked me for sex for all these years (I had stopped having sex with him for three years and was stupid enough to give in last weekend) if he is so crazy about his W. Anyway, all in all, I do believe that he is happy and content at home. Oh and something else that I see is that the xMM loves control and perhaps it was all about control for him. Certainly not love although he lied to me a zillion times that he loves me. Link to post Share on other sites
jbrent890 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 No, you said most men don't. And the reality is, you can't generalize "most" of anything from the 'data' you gleaned from reading journal entries and online posts. I really do hope these help. Do men cheat for the thrill? Or the sex? - TODAY.com Is your husband having an affair actually proof that he loves you? | Daily Mail Online Link to post Share on other sites
Hope Shimmers Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I really do hope these help. Do men cheat for the thrill? Or the sex? - TODAY.com Is your husband having an affair actually proof that he loves you? | Daily Mail Online You seriously think I put stock in that crap? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
RoseVille Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Your basing your opinion on what you are reading now. There have been MM posting here for years, with some of them posting very different. However I'm not going to base my opinion from a site that only encompasses a modicum of the male cheating population. Mine comes from journal entries and other sites like this with most saying the same thing. Men can be happy and still cheat. This is just an observation, but judging from the threads and posts you have created, you really do need to believe that your MM chose his wife over you out of some since obligation. I'm going to leave this alone now. Sure they can be happy, there are generally happy men who cheat. But you said: Again, men are usually very happy at home when they have affairs... Usually implies "most." No, most men are not USUALLY VERY HAPPY when they have affairs. That... is just not accurate. And please, post the journal entries and other sites that you base this all on. And don't assume I haven't read the same. Because I have. Most aren't "very happy." They are unhappy enough that they are looking outside their marriage. That says it all. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Grapesofwrath Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Actually, my xMM is one of those men who is happy in his marriage (he said so himself) and he even had the nerve to tell me the other day that he is crazy about his W. Makes no sense to me why he asked me for sex for all these years (I had stopped having sex with him for three years and was stupid enough to give in last weekend) if he is so crazy about his W. Anyway, all in all, I do believe that he is happy and content at home. Hearing that kind of thing always takes me full circle...back around to the notion that if he is crazy about her, really loves her, how can he betray her? Is it the "what she doesn't know won't hurt her" thing? I think that's so much bull$hit. Even if we can agree that MM in As compartmentalize, or that they need sexual variety, or that they can be happy at home, why don't they concern themselves with protecting the feelings of the one they love? Mine didn't. And when I question him on this, I get a blank stare and then another statement like, "if our relationship is causing you angst and taking up too much head space, I will love you enough to end it." Oh...for crying out loud... Link to post Share on other sites
Grapesofwrath Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 And this is the man who slept with other women throughout their courtship, engagement, and early years of marriage...possibly including her first pregnancy. That's how he shows his love and commitment. That's how he shows he is happy at home. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jbrent890 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 You seriously think I put stock in that crap? No but I would hope that you would put stock into the studies that they are referring to. Listen if you choose not to believe it, then there is nothing I can do. It won't change the fact that it is the case. Men cheat for variety and newness. Also, they can be happy in their marriages. Link to post Share on other sites
RoseVille Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 No but I would hope that you would put stock into the studies that they are referring to. Listen if you choose not to believe it, then there is nothing I can do. It won't change the fact that it is the case. Men cheat for variety and newness. Also, they can be happy in their marriages. "Can be happy" is very, very different from "usually are very happy," which is what you said. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Hope Shimmers Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 No but I would hope that you would put stock into the studies that they are referring to. Listen if you choose not to believe it, then there is nothing I can do. It won't change the fact that it is the case. Men cheat for variety and newness. Also, they can be happy in their marriages. Of course there is nothing you can do. My question is, why do you have this intense need to convince everyone that their situation probably falls into a generalization that you made? And of course men can be happy in their marriages. But that's not what you said before, which was way off base. You said, "Most men are very happy in their marriages." I highly doubt that's true. I just don't understand why you keep trying to put other people's situations into a particular box. Why does it matter to you? The one that always gets me is when people say "Men cheat for sex and that's the only reason." In my case we didn't have sex until we were 2 YEARS into it. And even then we were 1200 miles apart. Certainly if it was just about sex, geography should have been a consideration for the sake of logistics. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Far more I hear about emotional needs than sexual needs. Why else are there so many EAs if men are really just interested in sex? And I know that my MM and now husband wanted far more emotional support though he greatly enjoyed the sexual. But it was his ex wife's affair and complete lack of support of him, his needs/emotions, and appreciation that was a far great catalyst than just not having sex. She was pushing for sex, he was declining. He also suspects an abortion during her affair and thinks that was the biggest change in her personality and emotions. And these needs continue for him, what he wants is to be appreciated, desired, and acknowledged. He wants to know he matters. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
violet1 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) Now you're building this guy up to be some honorable human being. He's not. If he wanted to leave his marriage, he would have left. Trust me when I say it really is as simple as that. Honorable men don't treat women the way he treated you and his wife. Again, men are usually very happy at home when they have affairs, they just want more. But maybe your MM is the exception. I hate to say it though, there is a huge possibility that he isn't. Men don't need to be unhappy in order to cheat. Unless you are polyamorous or a serial cheater, it makes no sense to cheat if you are happily married. I know my exMM was very unhappily married. They were young when they met and married within 6 months of meeting. He said that was his biggest regret. In his mind (perception is a person's reality) he felt like leaving his wife would be betraying his children. Divorcing is not easy for everyone. Some people will stay because they can't stand the thought of sharing their children 50% of the time. Some people stay because they don't want to give up half of what they've work for. Others stay because the simply can't financially afford to leave. Sure an A is selfish and damaging, but to say that leaving is so simple is unrealistic. Period. Edited May 14, 2015 by violet1 typos 2 Link to post Share on other sites
violet1 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Far more I hear about emotional needs than sexual needs. Why else are there so many EAs if men are really just interested in sex? And I know that my MM and now husband wanted far more emotional support though he greatly enjoyed the sexual. But it was his ex wife's affair and complete lack of support of him, his needs/emotions, and appreciation that was a far great catalyst than just not having sex. She was pushing for sex, he was declining. He also suspects an abortion during her affair and thinks that was the biggest change in her personality and emotions. And these needs continue for him, what he wants is to be appreciated, desired, and acknowledged. He wants to know he matters. My A was more of an EA than a PA. We had sex maybe 4 or 5 times if that in over a year time period. I don't get why so many assume that men only want sex from an AP. Some men can't even perform if there's not some sort of emotional component involved. I'm probably going to get slammed for this, but I'm willing to bet a lot of MM's on D Day will say it's only about sex and she met nothing to minimize damage. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Did I say all men Hope? I'm sure there are men who actually do love their APs more. I'm just not going to say most. in my own experience -- almost all adulterers love their AP more, divorcing or not, cake eating or not... feelings that exist for the AP are almost always more intense, as simple as that. If he wanted to leave his marriage, he would have left. Trust me when I say it really is as simple as that. no, it isn't. i'm always baffled when folks can't & don't understand that divorcing really ISN'T an option for many... for various reasons. some literally cannot afford to divorce, some have children with special needs that wouldn't handle 2 homes type of system... i mean, divorce is never easy unless you're financially secure & have no children. it's not some kind of walk in the park, it is NOT a simple decision. you have other lives to think about. just because someone doesn't leave their spouse & marriage for the AP - it doesn't necessarily mean that they love & want the spouse more or that they had 0 feelings for the AP. trust me when i say (and i have a lot of experience) -- most stay married out of fear, they want to stay in their comfortable life, out of great guilt, sense of obligation... because it's easier -- it's almost NEVER out of their honest & true love for the spouse, it's out of love for the LIFE that they have with said spouse. Again, men are usually very happy at home when they have affairs, they just want more. this is probably one of the biggest myths ever -- most folks cheat because there is something missing at home. every single time when i talk to a WS, they start with "oh, i'm happy with my marriage... this is just fun" -- you wouldn't believe how they twist that story once they get caught or divorced. suddenly, it turns out this was missing, that was missing, the spouse didn't do this or that right, they were unhappy. DENIAL, my friend. never underestimate the power of denial. also -- affairs help mantaining a dead marriage. you have a man who isn't treated well at home, doesn't get any but has an AP who gets all of that for him... that love and happiness from the A sometimes "crosses" over into the marriage so people really believe that they have a GOOD union at home. nobody in a healthy relationship cheats because "they want more" -- that's something people tell themselves because they really don't want to face the truth, as simple as that. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
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