Author elizabeth2222 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Have you ever considered he may be unhappy the past 22 years as well? Have you ever considered that allowing him to be free from this commitment of mediocrity may very well make him a very happy and free man? Based on discussions we've had, I don't think he thinks the marriage is 'great', but I don't think would choose to end it. However, if he did have that reaction when I told him, it would be quite welcome and make things much easier. Link to post Share on other sites
Author elizabeth2222 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 I'll also add this concern for his feelings, after subjecting him to 20 years of near celibacy, is a little late. There has not been a day during the 20 years that I wasn't concerned about his feelings. How could I have stayed and tried for so long otherwise? Why else would it be taking me so long to leave? It's not like he's some sugar daddy and I have a lavish lifestyle or anything. If I *KNEW* he would be OK, I would not be putting this off and trying to convince myself it wouldn't be so bad to just stay. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Based on discussions we've had, I don't think he thinks the marriage is 'great', but I don't think would choose to end it. However, if he did have that reaction when I told him, it would be quite welcome and make things much easier. Tell him about the affair and you may get your wish. He will hurt, be shocked, will heal and perhaps move on to the happiest life he could have ever imagined. It really is true when one person has been unhappy in a marriage for a long time usually the other spouse is to. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Poutrew Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Do you realize how many secrets get taken to the grave? People think cemeteries are nice, quiet places of eternal repose, but to me they are the noisiest places on earth. Uncle Jimmy is gay, but married and had 5 children, cousin molly had 3 lovers whilst being head of the church women's group, cousin Billy was a no good philandering gambler who was finally killed over gambling debts... but in the graveyard, all is buried by time, and 6 feet of dirt. My grandma who has been dead for over 2 decades, was in an arraigned marriage, and she never really loved my grandpa, but they still kept the home fires burning. She would tell you that 'happiness' is silly. Life is pain, and regret. No one will ever have it the way they really want it, not even a millionaire. Only fools run around looking for happiness under every rock and tree stump, and it is dangerous fools indeed who are willing to destroy what they already have for the chance to get some nebulous, pie-in-the-sky, happiness. She'd tell you regret is when you are in your next relationship, being beaten regularly by a drunk abuser and thinking of what you did to get there... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 There has not been a day during the 20 years that I wasn't concerned about his feelings. How could I have stayed and tried for so long otherwise? Why else would it be taking me so long to leave? It's not like he's some sugar daddy and I have a lavish lifestyle or anything. If I *KNEW* he would be OK, I would not be putting this off and trying to convince myself it wouldn't be so bad to just stay. Again, you want to "KNOW" he'll be OK. BUT - - you're cheating on him, sleeping with someone else - covertly planning to move out, at least lie of omission - not being honest with him about lack of attraction - wasting years neither of you will ever get back This is how you ensure his well-being :confused: ? Most outside observers would say you've prioritized your needs and future over his, not the promise you make when you marry. You're clearly protecting yourself at his (great!) expense. That's the person and spouse you want to be? Mr. Lucky 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Babs22 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Do you realize how many secrets get taken to the grave? People think cemeteries are nice, quiet places of eternal repose, but to me they are the noisiest places on earth. Uncle Jimmy is gay, but married and had 5 children, cousin molly had 3 lovers whilst being head of the church women's group, cousin Billy was a no good philandering gambler who was finally killed over gambling debts... but in the graveyard, all is buried by time, and 6 feet of dirt. My grandma who has been dead for over 2 decades, was in an arraigned marriage, and she never really loved my grandpa, but they still kept the home fires burning. She would tell you that 'happiness' is silly. Life is pain, and regret. No one will ever have it the way they really want it, not even a millionaire. Only fools run around looking for happiness under every rock and tree stump, and it is dangerous fools indeed who are willing to destroy what they already have for the chance to get some nebulous, pie-in-the-sky, happiness. She'd tell you regret is when you are in your next relationship, being beaten regularly by a drunk abuser and thinking of what you did to get there... Elizabeth2222, I feel for you and your situation. I have been married 20 years and find myself in a similar situation. I don't have an answer for how you tell your H, because I have not been able to do that myself. Poutrew, I find what you wrote about your grandma, especially the bolded part, sad. She "never loved your grandfather", but obviously stayed because she felt she had to. Her comments about "happiness is silly", "life is pain and regret" sound like the words of an unhappy woman who decided that being happy is a futile pursuit. Being safe was more important, hence her comment that, "regret is when you are in your next relationship, being beaten". That just seem so sad. Her whole existence was that "happiness is silly". There are couples who are happy. Those couples were lucky to find someone who made them happy, who they are compatible with and who they have chemistry with. Some of those couples are not in their first marriage. So they did give up on one relationship that was not working for them to go to another relationship that made them feel happy and fulfilled. I never felt loved in my current marriage. I think initially I had feelings for my husband, but over the years, I just never felt that he loved me. Over the years, resentments build and feelings change. I suppose my need for happiness was a selfish thing. People seem to think you should some how suck it up and stay in unhappy relationships because you have kids, because you made vows. Maybe I should, but reading those words from your grandma made me very sad to think of spending my life feeling that way. I think I would end up a bitter, unhappy person who then felt that "happiness is silly" and life is "pain and regret". Wow, I just can't imagine passing along those same words to my kids. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
beatcuff Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) sometimes.... this is NOT about the A, NOT about the him, NOT about... OP is asking how to have an extremely uncomfortable conversation that M is over. OP my W is very similar to you. she avoids confrontation all nearly all costs. My W just blurted it out: "i can't do this anymore". that started the conversation. do not write a letter, he needs to know how real it is. i suggest you find a quiet moment with BOTH of you sober, kids in bed, walk up to the tv, shut it off, look at him and say 'we need to talk'. i think ALL people are programmed to dread those words. leave the A out initially (unfortunately by having one he will key on that and ignore, as many on this site do, that the M is the problem not the A). YOUR NEXT WORDS should be "it's over", then describe how far you have disconnected. use active not passive words. he needs to know its beyond repair. the fewer words said the better. but they should cover all your points. do NOT raise your voice (this is not an argument its a statement), if you can be stoic all the better and do NOT try to 'ease his pain' (he will take that as hope): especially if he breaks down. upon reflection that will be hammer for him to realize how far gone you are. he will at some point ask 'is there someone else': there is no sense discussing the details of A. you are leaving --- period. a simple "there is someone else" is all that should be said. do not get bogged down in the details of A, reinforce that your M was broken beyond repair before the A and the A is not the reason you are leaving. then steer him back to the breakdown of the M. yes he will be devastated, he will try to win you back, he will try to "fix" things. lastly, i noticed you are now 're-writing' history 'maybe i never found him attractive/loved him'. that path will make you feel better today about your choice but is not truthful. it will be better for you in your future relationships to accept 'there were good times' and 'you did love him' (past tense). good luck. Edited May 15, 2015 by beatcuff clarification 7 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 That's a good post, ^^^ right there..... Link to post Share on other sites
Cephalopod Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 lastly, i noticed you are now 're-writing' history 'maybe i never found him attractive/loved him'. that path will make you feel better today about your choice but is not truthful. it will be better for you in your future relationships to accept 'there were good times' and 'you did love him' (past tense). THIS ^^^is exactly what she is doing. It is the only way she can make herself feel better about her choices. My ex wife told some doozies about me on her FB page after we broke up. In her description of our marriage, I was a controlling, selfish, lazy Nazi of a husband who never did anything for her, was lousy in the sack, and verbally abused her. I showed her comments to my sister and she laughed her ass off when she read some of the ridiculous crap she was spewing about me. It's all about protecting the image. The person cheating is so afraid that the world is going to see what they really are capable of, and the thought of public scrutiny terrifies them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author elizabeth2222 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 beatcuff...thank you for coming in with exactly what I was asking for. I appreciate your suggestions and think they are very wise.lastly, i noticed you are now 're-writing' history 'maybe i never found him attractive/loved him'. that path will make you feel better today about your choice but is not truthful. it will be better for you in your future relationships to accept 'there were good times' and 'you did love him' (past tense). I just have to say that this part is somewhat off-base. I have clear memories of being not super into or interested in sex on wedding night, honeymoon, anniversaries, when trying to get pregnant with children, etc. What has changed more than anything is my realization that it wasn't normal, wasn't just me, wasn't a 'phase' and wasn't going to change. It is definitely true that there were good times (many!!) and that I did (do) love him. And, with regard to some of the other comments...as I mentioned, I'm going in to this knowing that I may not EVER find the kind of love/connection that I believe should be part of a healthy marriage. But the alternative, which is staying, doesn't seem like something I can do. I just wish I could explain how it feels to be the one not reciprocating the feelings of love and closeness...I feel like it's slowly killing me inside and I honestly don't think I could do it the rest of my life. So, yes, I know I messed up by waiting too long and getting involved with someone else...but as I explained earlier, it is not the type of affair where I'm going to be running off with the person...have only seen him a couple times & the relationship consists of playful texting and not much else. What it has given me is the knowledge that I do have it in me to be interested in sex. Three years ago, H and I had our only real honest discussion about our (lack of) sex life. I explained that I just didn't have the desire and truthfully felt at that time like I could live the rest of my life without sex. He asked if I felt that attraction for other people but just not him, and the honest answer at that time was no. I wrote in my journal something to the effect of...'The only way to know for sure would be to be with someone else, and since that is not an option....'. At that time, I went in for medical tests, we did MC, I did IC and I believed that things could change if I just focused on him and what was good about him. However, things did not change....and I guess now I have my answer about whether it's just him I'm not attracted to. I really think I needed that answer (although did not have to act on it) in order to figure out my feelings. I had been in denial and I guess repressing the sexual side of me for so long, I thought it might just be dead. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I don't think it's fair to villify elizabeth2222 for her feelings. I think she's in a pretty common scenario, where the woman marries a safe guy she's not into, because he's into her and will "take care of her". I personally feel judgment about the cheating, but it's just another sign that the romantic aspect of this relationship is pretty much dead. Since you're feeling stuck about declaring the marriage over, I suggest you write down what you want to say. Write down just the essential information, the facts: I'm not in love with you and never have been. I do not desire you sexually and never have. I think we would both be happier getting divorced so we can look for a relationship with love, romance, and sex. Phrase all that however you want, but I agree that you should stick to the facts. Memorize the short speech, then say it to him in words, and do not waver. Of course this information will be devastating, but after all these years of marriage, he deserves to know the TRUTH. You've already talked about it before, so it won't be a great surprise. His only mistake here was marrying a woman who didn't love or desire him. Again, I think that for women and men of your time, this is very prevalent. I think many of the divorces happening now are initiated by women exactly like you, who married the "safe bet" they never really loved or desired romantically or sexually. I hope that single men these days will be more careful in making sure their mate actually loves and desires them. No amount of desire from the man's side will generate desire in the woman where there is none. You cannot avoid the hurt this will cause. He will most likely feel like a failure of a man, inadequate, maybe even worthless. But your only alternative is to live with your best friend and roommate in a sexless marriage, and do without or cheat. If you divorce, he'll eventually get over the devastation and find someone else. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
misty12 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I am in a very similar situation but the difference is my H knows about my A and he had one before me that he confessed to. I know some disagree, but I feel there is no reason to hurt him further and set him up for a lifetime of distrust in future relationships by disclosing the A, IF you are divorcing, and it sounds like your mind is made up there. The marriage is simply not working for you anymore, and that's ok. I, too, am very conflict avoidant so I totally know what you are going through. I try to think of the alternative which is living the rest of my life never experiencing love and passion again, and that brings me closer every day to telling him I want a D. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
misty12 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 THIS ^^^is exactly what she is doing. It is the only way she can make herself feel better about her choices. My ex wife told some doozies about me on her FB page after we broke up. In her description of our marriage, I was a controlling, selfish, lazy Nazi of a husband who never did anything for her, was lousy in the sack, and verbally abused her. I showed her comments to my sister and she laughed her ass off when she read some of the ridiculous crap she was spewing about me. It's all about protecting the image. The person cheating is so afraid that the world is going to see what they really are capable of, and the thought of public scrutiny terrifies them. Only the 2 people in a marriage know exactly what goes on inside of a marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Have you had any feelings for another man outside your marriage in these past 22 years? Link to post Share on other sites
Author elizabeth2222 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Thank you for your comments, Ruby Slippers. I appreciate them. I don't think it's fair to villify elizabeth2222 for her feelings. I think she's in a pretty common scenario, where the woman marries a safe guy she's not into, because he's into her and will "take care of her". You know, although this is a true statement about what I (unwittingly) did when I made the decision to marry, I think the bigger issue is what I'm realizing (and what you eluded to later in your comments) about how easy it is to enter into a marriage without really understanding what it should look like. Growing up, at least in my circle of friends & family, there was just an 'assumption' of marriage and at age 25, I was about the last of my friends to get married! I recall at the time loving how nice and kind he was, and that I could picture him being a great dad. The issue of spark/passion/intimacy was not even a factor to be considered separately. We were dating, we loved each other & shared similar goals about life. We had sex and it was fine, I enjoyed it well enough even though it was not a priority for me or something I actively pursued. I honestly did not know any different. I wish I could go back and counsel my younger self. As I've mentioned, it's only been the past few years where I've really begun to have a better understanding of what was lacking in our relationship. Although I have never been very 'into' having sex with H, it's not that it's been 'bad' sex when it happens. What I have noticed is that I don't really make eye contact during sex, don't want him to talk, don't want to experiment with new things, always want it dark & am more uncomfortable in the light of day.....and I realize now that it's not that I'm a 'prude', but it's because I'm not physically/emotionally connected to him. Those things make it easier to not 'feel' the disconnection. Now that I've put all this together, it's starting to become more and more difficult for me to act as 'normal'. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author elizabeth2222 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Have you had any feelings for another man outside your marriage in these past 22 years? I recall about 10 years ago going on a girl's trip to Mexico and thinking to myself before I went that I'd better be careful, that I could see myself drinking too much & finding myself wanting to stray. That's the first memory I really have of being aware of this type of feeling. I also had a really weird, brief infatuation with my brother in law...probably around that same timeframe. Nothing happened, but I definitely had thoughts. Since then, these kind of feelings became more common, although not constant....brief crushes, or just noticing men I found attractive here and there. Nothing ever happened, though, until I met AP a few months ago. It's interesting to note that, at that time, all I could think about was just really getting into kissing someone madly and deeply. I wanted those butterflies and the thrill...it wasn't even about sex. It felt like a craving that I couldn't fight. I certainly understand that people call it an addiction. Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I recall about 10 years ago going on a girl's trip to Mexico and thinking to myself before I went that I'd better be careful, that I could see myself drinking too much & finding myself wanting to stray. That's the first memory I really have of being aware of this type of feeling. I also had a really weird, brief infatuation with my brother in law...probably around that same timeframe. Nothing happened, but I definitely had thoughts. Since then, these kind of feelings became more common, although not constant....brief crushes, or just noticing men I found attractive here and there. Nothing ever happened, though, until I met AP a few months ago. It's interesting to note that, at that time, all I could think about was just really getting into kissing someone madly and deeply. I wanted those butterflies and the thrill...it wasn't even about sex. It felt like a craving that I couldn't fight. I certainly understand that people call it an addiction. Oh! So you've had an affair and now you want to divorce? Why didn't you state that in your post? Link to post Share on other sites
Author elizabeth2222 Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Oh! So you've had an affair and now you want to divorce? Why didn't you state that in your post? Actually, the other way around, I've been struggling with the decision whether or not to divorce for years....and only recently began something (that is more EA than PA). It was in in my post.... Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Actually, the other way around, I've been struggling with the decision whether or not to divorce for years....and only recently began something (that is more EA than PA). It was in in my post.... I missed it... Sorry about that. You cheating solidifies it even more - divorce your husband. He probably won't be as upset as you think. Get the D final. Then you can do whatever you please. Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 We're lucky to have forums like these so we can all learn from each other's mistakes. I have also been tempted more than once to accept the "good deal" that a decent, respectful, wealthy gentleman I didn't have much carnal desire for was offering. And those offers keep coming. It seems like they just keep getting more ridiculous, as if the universe is REALLY testing my resolve. The last guy like this I dated was seriously about to buy his own private tropical island, and asked for my help in narrowing down the options. He was appealing in many ways, but I never felt that THING for him, felt nothing when we kissed beyond the mild physical pleasure of kissing a man. I've experienced some degree of judgment because I haven't accepted the conventional path, but by now I don't care. They make it very, very easy on you to say yes to the deal, I guess because they desire you a lot and aren't really thinking about the dangers of marrying a woman who doesn't desire them much or at all. But I always did think about that. I don't think it would be fair to subject the man and our future children to the inherent risks of a marriage that was essentially a business arrangement. It wouldn't be fair to him, or our children, or really even myself. The only way it would be fair is if I fully accepted it for what it was, and made my vows to the marriage knowing what it meant to me, knowing that I was signing up for an agreement without romantic love and sexual desire. How old are your kids? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I have always affirmed that human are not monogamous, should not be, and shouldn't be expected to conform to that mistaken ideology. We're a gregarious bunch - but why should that stop at socialising or craving human company? We cannot sit at the same table and eat the same dish, day in, day out, without let-up or interruption. In fact were we to do that, people would think us bizarre, a little crazy... "You need variety!" They would cry, "You can't exist healthily on this same food for ever! You need a change, such a diet isn't good for you in the long run!" Yet as humans, we are expected to 'settle' for just one partner? It's ridiculous... The trouble and problem is, finding a partner that thinks in exactly the same way. And then being able to live that kind of lifestyle, without any measure of jealousy, resentment, mistrust or emotional involvement rearing their heads to spoil the arrangement. Because sadly, as humans, we think too much. I would gladly live within a relationship where, once in a while, I could go off, have a totally non-committal fling with a man of my liking: No names, no pack-drill, just a quick frolic in the hay for a couple of hours' fun, then home again, "refreshed". But two things: One: my husband is not of the same opinion or mind-set. Two: I made certain marriage vows, and i intend to keep my promise. If you find a like-minded partner, and you both manage to adhere to 'ground-rules' established well in advance of these extra-marital flings, then bully for you, go for it, enjoy and have (responsible) fun! But if this is a very-definitely one-sided thing, then unfortunately, there is a social requirement to conform to. And Conditioning is damn hard to break.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author elizabeth2222 Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 How old are your kids? Thanks Ruby Slippers. They are 14 (will be starting HS) and 18 (just graduating from HS). Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) I don't think it's fair to villify elizabeth2222 for her feelings. I think she's in a pretty common scenario, where the woman marries a safe guy she's not into, because he's into her and will "take care of her". I don't either, her feelings are well explained and make sense in light of what she's posted. Her actions are another matter. Regardless of attraction, butterflies, wants and needs, a loyal spouse of 20 years deserves fairness. Mr. Lucky Edited May 19, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator off topic~T 3 Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) Tell the guy after 22 years, that you never really loved him the way that you should have and that you're sorry that you wasted so many years of his life, but in the end you realized that you were not being honest to yourself and to him and therefore need to move on. no, no and no. OP -- do NOT do this, this is incredibly cruel and there is no reason you should devastate your husband like this... none at all. tell him that you aren't happy anymore & that you want out, do NOT tell him that you've never loved him or all the real reasons you've married him or about the affair -- that is your burden and those are your choices, no need to "pass" that on to someone else. keep all of that for yourself. QUOTE=Ninjainpajamas;6322433] It's way too late for you to start being responsible and accountable for your actions...this is more than about love, this is about personal growth and self-acceptance, blablabla... it's never too late to start being responsible. also -- she doesn't need to be cruel & devastate her H even more with unnecessary details in order to grow as a person. she can do all of that while leaving the poor man alone & sparing him the irrelevant mess. Don't try to take the easy way out, let the consequences change you. asking for a divorce isn't taking the easy way out, sparing someone cruel details is NOT taking the easy way out. "relieving" your conscience and letting it all out so YOU can feel better? that, buddy, IS taking the easy way out. like it's not enough that she's about to dump the dude & ruin his world, your advice is that she should let it aaaaaaall out and devastate him even more by telling him that his entire life was basically a lie so she can... i guess, grow as a person? i'm amazed you thought that actually made sense, buddy. she's already dealing with the consequences of wasting 22 years of her life in a passionless & loveless marriage - 22 years she'll never get back, that itself is a huge tragedy and enough to spark a change. OP - tell your H only the neccessary, NO cruel details, NO admitting the affair, NO admitting that you've never loved him, NO admitting why you married him. NONE. OF. THAT. you have children with this man, you need to mantain a good & civil relationship for their sake. you probably have family & common friends... you do NOT want to look like a Satan in his eyes & you will by admitting everything just so you could feel better. again -- you don't need to devastate everyone around you in order to learn & grow as a person. so be smart about this & careful. Edited June 2, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Fix quote 4 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 (edited) OP, please tell you husband the truth about you so he can move on and get some happiness out of this life. Edited May 19, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 5 Link to post Share on other sites
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