Reconcilation and lowered expectations/standards

[VeryBrokenMan]

I've seen these numbers here and there. Also 2.5 years. Anyone know whose numbers they are? (Book? Study?) Also, is it 4-5 years to heal regardless of marriage outcome (ie, whether divorced or reconciled)?

 

 

Shirley glass is one example of a respected therapist who reports 3-5 years for both reconciliation and divorce. She also quotes the 87% of men (in the cases where there is not a clean break) that don't reconcile number.

 

Reconciliation can often can take years and is really a lifetime commitment. But like everything to do with infidelity, there is no set timeline just a general guide. Generally, full healing can take place in three to five years, with some couples taking longer and others recovering sooner. The length of time it takes is directly related to what happens immediately after the affair is discovered. Certainly by five years most of the issues have been addressed and reconciliation should be complete. Divorce often takes as long or longer than reconciliation to recover from, there are no easy ways out of infidelity and both leave life time scars on both spouses.

 

The trauma phase lasts 6 to 12 months. During this phase, the faithful spouse will be in shock and experiencing significant emotional trauma as a result of finding out about the affair. Often they feel angry, vengeful, and hopeless. This phase is a roller coaster of emotions, ranging from loss and grief, to rage and frustration, and can be accompanied by bouts of tears. Both spouse’s struggle to think clearly during this phase, and they may experience physical symptoms such as loss of appetite, weight or concentration.

 

The clarification stage lasts another 3 to 6 months. It is during this time that couples begin to examine in more detail what led to the affair. Although there is still some emotional instability, they want to understand why the affair happened. The sooner couples can begin this process, the sooner they can work towards change to ensure it doesn’t happen again. Learning about, and resolving this can be vital during this extremely psychologically stressful time.

 

Addressing the problem stage can take several more years. This is when the real work begins and the unfaithful spouse must do much of it. As the emotions become more manageable, spouses tackle the difficult task of working on the issues that were uncovered. There will be highs and lows, but they will be much less frequent.

 

Once the roughest patches are in the past, there is time for the couple to embrace the new relationship they have created. Hopefully, by working together, they will have developed stronger and more genuine bonds. Trust may still be difficult for the faithful spouse, and each will have difficult days accepting that the previous life they knew has been changed forever. There will be days where both spouses still struggle to understand why the affair happened. But by practicing techniques and utilizing new tools, couples can continue to develop an open, honest and new relationship, free of the encumbrances of the affair.

 

And this on reconciliation statistics:

 

The statistics are grim for wives having affairs in general compared to men having affairs. Over the past ten years of my practice, in affairs were the wife breaks off the affair and confesses about 67% survives at least 5 years. This is compared to 89% of affairs where the man has the affair and confesses. Clearly women are more willing to forgive and move past the affair. However in affairs where the partner does not confess and is caught the chances of reconciliation are much worse especially if the wife is the one who strayed. Only 23% of marriages survive five years in that case compared to 64% if the husband strays. The statistics are even worse when the partner is confronted and denies the affair for any length of time or refuses to break off the affair. In these cases only 13% of marriages where the woman is the offender recover and 49% where the husband is the offender. Many times in these cases it’s the therapists job to give the couple a good divorce rather than try to save the relationship. We know that affairs end many marriages and how the affair plays out makes a large difference in outcomes and these are all truly grim statistics.

[Popsicle]

But you see that is what is at issue - she probably is NOT doing it because she likes it or is enjoying the sexual tension. She is likely doing it to Hoover him (look up the term if you're not familiar)

 

In other words, she is not acting out of desire or of her own innate feelings but rather to appease him so he keeps her around.

 

But here's the real rub, even if she is sincere and is doing it out of honest desire - he won't believe it or accept it because his trust and confidence in her has been broken. That is what losing trust is. That is what is destroyed when someone cheats.

 

Distrust isn't simply wondering if someone is still maintaining contact with the AP.. distrust is questioning the very foundation and all aspects of th marriage and relationship as a whole.

 

That's sad.

[johnbol2]

Thanks to all who have responded. Some very very insightful comments.

 

I remain convinced that divorce is my solution. Putting aside the sexual and trust biggies aside, the very fact that she has made me question my own sanity and made me become a cynic about marriage and made me feel so naive ... While she was in the know. Call it pride or whatever, why should one stay marred to the person who has unleashed such mental rape on him? I don't see the world the same. Sure, she would read this and say how melodramatic. Oh, it was just a mistake , a flirt, a midlife crisis, or blah blah. But all that has changed my world and my self image. I had thought I was a very smart guy. Three degrees, great career , very ambitious etc. And she went for a high school dude still living in his mom's house, and working at the produce section of FoodLion grocery store. All the things I had been proud of meant nothing for her. And there is nothin wrong with that. It was authentic lust and connection between then. Of course, how silly to think that education has any bearing in it. Real feelings are unconditional. They don't require an MBA or ... Just bring your own self. That is the authenticity that is gone , the chance for it gone. Reconciliation takes effort. Authenticity doesn't but is actually the opposite of authenticity, as it requires a dismissal of a very important fact. Your spouse is a cheater.

[johnbol2]

That's sad.

 

It is sad but what he said is so true. It described my feelings better than I could. It is great to know that somebody else saw it the same way.

[drifter777]

Jonbol2 - you know what to do - now it's time to do it.

[Clay]

I am really sorry you are going through this. This hits really close to home for me. I suffered years and years of her cheating and she was not the only women that has cheated on me in the past. If ever there was a time I asked myself how in the world did I keep picking such horrible people. I tried everything. In the end I just learned there cheating had nothing really to do with me and it could just happen with anyone. Do the right thing now and just focus on yourself. figure out what you want to do in your life now and go do it. I kept custody of my kids so that helped keep me really busy. Life does get better it just takes time.

 

 

Keep one thing in mind there are far better women out there.

Clay

[autumnnight]

I think all betrayed spouses deal with this.

 

In my situation I often feel her efforts are disingenuous. I have doubts about our ability to make it work, I still question my desire to do so. I often think there is someone with whom I don't have to deal with these doubts.

 

I don't have any anwsers for you, I can't answer my own question.

 

Wow, now this REALLY makes me sad, what the the baby and all...

 

And it reinforces my view that the best answer for ALL is to just divorce. Divorce, grow, get IC, change, do whatever you have to do. And IF you can come together again as two NEW people in a NEW relationships as actual romantically interested equals, go for it.

 

Nobody wins with the typical bland/martyrdom type recovery.

[autumnnight]

I've seen these numbers here and there. Also 2.5 years. Anyone know whose numbers they are? (Book? Study?) Also, is it 4-5 years to heal regardless of marriage outcome (ie, whether divorced or reconciled)?

 

Dr. Willard Harley. His BOOKS are excellent

[jwi71]

I've seen these numbers here and there. Also 2.5 years. Anyone know whose numbers they are? (Book? Study?) Also, is it 4-5 years to heal regardless of marriage outcome (ie, whether divorced or reconciled)?

 

It was first told to me by my IC...way back when...2007 I think.

It has been oft repeated, myself obviously included, here.

I did not truly forgive my xWW until about 4-5 years post DD. We were D at the time I finally truly felt it - We got D within the year of d-day.

 

So, for me it was my IC and my own experience. YMMV.

[No Limit]

I did contact his wife. But essentially she didn't care. They apparently have an open relationship. Which made all the more. She associates our family with folks like that.

 

But what makes me really frustrated is when she says that it is me who is breaking up our family because she wants to move on and I am the one who keeps taking divorce and doing this to our kids. And I cannot put in words back to her why this is so wrong to put it on me. I am just reacting to her infidelity.

 

Her dad is a pastor and her family keeps telling her that Jesus has forgiven her and that I am just tormenting her by not getting over it.

 

And with all these ups and down, she thinks I am doing it to punish her. How convenient ... She screwed up, she repented and now I should move on ... Never minds the small inconvenient fact that I now find myself married to a cheater. I know it sounds silly ... But I didn't sign up for this?

 

If you go to bestbuy and your purchase turns up a dud, what so you do? You didn't pay for that! Take back to the store. Similarly , I didn't marry a cheater. Return!

 

Sorry I now I am just venting like a brat

 

So in the end she wants to rugsweep everything and her family supports her. None of them care a whit about you. Honestly, I wonder if it isn't your gut feeling raging at you to leave already, this sounds like everyone against you, not a family.

[Seachan]

I get from your previous thread that you have 2 little kids. Whatever you decide, OP, please stay close to your kids.

 

My BS dad stayed with my WS mom despite suspecting that my younger brother was fathered by OM. My dad raged and triggered throughout my childhood. But I am so grateful that he did not abandon me to a potential stepfather.*

 

Because of my dad's stabilizing influence, I am a relatively well-adjusted happily married adult. Through daily teaching and role-modeling, he taught me to understand consequences of my choices.

 

 

*I know there are wonderful stepdads out there, but not sure my own mother would have made good choices given her weakness for needing ego strokes and attention.

[drifter777]

I get from your previous thread that you have 2 little kids. Whatever you decide, OP, please stay close to your kids.

 

My BS dad stayed with my WS mom despite suspecting that my younger brother was fathered by OM. My dad raged and triggered throughout my childhood. But I am so grateful that he did not abandon me to a potential stepfather.*

 

Because of my dad's stabilizing influence, I am a relatively well-adjusted happily married adult. Through daily teaching and role-modeling, he taught me to understand consequences of my choices.

 

 

*I know there are wonderful stepdads out there, but not sure my own mother would have made good choices given her weakness for needing ego strokes and attention.

He stayed - his choice - but he would have been a great dad whether he lived with your mom or not. I wonder whether he would have been happier if he would have divorced her?

 

What would you do if your partner cheated?

[lolablue17]

I think you find it hard to reconcile, and you are looking for excuses to justify your resentment..

 

Your view about the texting is really nothing. I have many textings with my wife. I can text her something in the afternoon, and so many thing happens until the evening, so the "afternoon feeling" is gone ages ago.

 

Sometime I text her something naughty, but her reply turns me down. so when i see her, i don't feel the same as i felt before.

 

So you may be a little hard on her. Maybe she feels sexting to you at one moment, and for that moment it's not a fake. And maybe she starts doing it sometimes to light the flame, and when you're not 100% into it (sexting) she loses her confidence about it.

 

I think you have bigger problems with the reconciliation thing. It's not the sextings and it's not that she is a fakes.

 

It's you, only you, not her.

[Phoenician]

You are totally correct and I struggle with the same feelings ( wife cheated with a married man, got pregnant, confessed and had abortion) still with her (2 kids)

Busying myself and am there for the kids but I will never trust my wife again and it has revealed an ugly side of her personality that I never knew was there.

 

We just co-parent and coexist for now and we never really had a sex life before her affair anyway. But it's the knowledge of what she did, those memories she must have, did they laugh about me behind my back? Do things we never did? Who knows, but I try to push it to the back of my mind and work on myself. I am above this ****, and there is a better woman out there for me

 

I am sorry to see u hurting ,

When u say never had a sexlife before ,what was reasons :

She was ld or u where?

Haf u talked together abouy desires

[autumnnight]

Wow, now this REALLY makes me sad, what the the baby and all...

 

And it reinforces my view that the best answer for ALL is to just divorce. Divorce, grow, get IC, change, do whatever you have to do. And IF you can come together again as two NEW people in a NEW relationships as actual romantically interested equals, go for it.

 

Nobody wins with the typical bland/martyrdom type recovery.

 

 

I need to clarify this statement.

 

A man who takes back his spouse and has a baby with her shouldn't be saying all that crap about her AFTER the fact. If that's how you feel, stay divorced....and for God's sake dontbhave a baby. Its actually lovin I feel sorry for.

 

If you'll never see your FWS as anything other than wayward, grow some and leave for good. We tell neglected, sex starved WS to leave all the time: you should have left before you cheated - like it's easy.

 

BS should do the same.

[Mr. Lucky]

Thanks to all who have responded. Some very very insightful comments.

 

I remain convinced that divorce is my solution. Putting aside the sexual and trust biggies aside, the very fact that she has made me question my own sanity and made me become a cynic about marriage and made me feel so naive ... While she was in the know. Call it pride or whatever, why should one stay marred to the person who has unleashed such mental rape on him? I don't see the world the same. Sure, she would read this and say how melodramatic. Oh, it was just a mistake , a flirt, a midlife crisis, or blah blah. But all that has changed my world and my self image.

 

Is there something different you feel she should be doing now?

 

The past is past, can't change the fact infidelity has occurred. And having been there myself, certainly don't minimize your pain.

 

But what do you want from her in the most direct sense. Space? Intimacy? Remorse? Time? And have you told her this?

 

I'd guess she's as confused and unsettled as you are...

 

Mr. Lucky

[beatcuff]

OP you said ---

 

My Acceptance of things dawned on me yesterday.

 

and later this ---

 

We have been doing counseling. But frankly I resent the fact that I have to go thru all this mess to give her "a chance" <<snip>>What, someone can do this to me, and still have me? And why in hell would I think I deserve no better than a cheater ? Growing up as a boy, I didn't dream about marrying a cheater?

 

you are NOT in acceptance, you are in anger. and it makes sense as 9 months is awfully fast to achieve all the stages.

 

further ---

 

She had sent me some sextings while I was at work in the spirit of trying to improve things, So, I guess she was trying to make up for it. But just like the previous few times she had done this...

 

boy are you misreading this. i see her flirting. my wife has done this many times: once she even mentioned her stiletto's, yet she has never owned a pair. its her way of showing she is thinking of you.

 

as another suggested. SLOW DOWN. its a bad day or even week. you need more time to digest this.

[66Charger]

The post from DKT really sends shivers. If this couple cant make it......... I think DKT has been a inspiration to a lot of men and hated by a lot of cheaters. All my freinds have read the story of Lovin And DKT3. We are all alphas and the tale is a story of honor and honor reclaimed by Lovin. I would bet that this story helped a lot of relationships hold on for a little bit longer. Faith is so hard to come by.

 

is that how you really feel?

 

Not threadjacking, but that post was a curve ball

[stillcold]

Her dad is a pastor and her family keeps telling her that Jesus has forgiven her and that I am just tormenting her by not getting over it.

 

And with all these ups and down, she thinks I am doing it to punish her. How convenient ... She screwed up, she repented and now I should move on ... Never minds the small inconvenient fact that I now find myself married to a cheater. I know it sounds silly ... But I didn't sign up for this?

 

As a Christian, tell her father that although Jesus has forgiven her, Jesus also says: "But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32).

 

Her dad is trying to do damage control and he's doing a terrible job. DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM. They are trying to blame shift and bring the guilt upon you. Divorce her without hesitation as you have EVERY right to do so, even according to Jesus if her father tries to bring up that argument. Even though God created marriage and hates divorce, God does allow divorce in the case of infidelity because it is such a disgusting act.

 

Please let me know if you read this, I don't want them to brainwash you.

[stillcold]

Hi all. I’d appreciate your thoughts on these thoughts of mine …

 

I have posted here a while ago as JohnBol. I couldn’t locate my old password, so set up this new account as JohnBol2. My original story:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/492542-should-i-sacrifice-myself-my-children

 

Update: My D day was 9 months ago. In a nutshell, I learned that my wife had an affair with another married man that lasted about eight months back in 2012. According to her, it was limited just to sexting, phone calls, and phone sex, and some plans to meet in person which they never did (which I don’t believe). We have been trying to reconcile since then, with regular ups-and downs.

 

Recently, I have realized that I had basically been going through the 5 stages of loss: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. I wouldn’t say I did the depression stage, but I think I just finished going through Bargaining. Not with her, but with the facts, trying to minimize the gravity of what she did (betrayal) and of what it means for her character (I hadn’t thought she was someone who could betray the person who trusted her unconditionally).

 

My Acceptance of things dawned on me yesterday. Something minor happened, that made me accept the fact that the reconciliation is not possible for me. She had sent me some sextings while I was at work in the spirit of trying to improve things, I guess. She has been remorseful, and working on fixing things. She had never done that type of “dirty” stuff with me before, but only with the other man (or men, who knows). So, I guess she was trying to make up for it. But just like the previous few times she had done this (writing, oh., I want to do X, Y, and Z with you), she kind of forgot about it all when I would get home, and never do any of those things – just empty words to help me “heal”, I guess. And it just kind of hit me: all this is fake, a project for her, and not reflective of her true feelings for me. Nothing had made her write those many dirty messages to that guy, but just the mere desire/lust to do it, even at the risk of ruining her family. But with me, it is all premeditated and serves a purpose: to fix her marriage, to save herself the trouble of working (she is a stay home mom), etc. And of course, like most stories I have read here, she has been TRYING to give me good sex, re-writing our marriage history to tell me how bad really things had been, almost getting me to believe it and feel guilty, etc, etc.

 

Of course, it is a good thing to try to fix your marriage. But what I have accepted now is, that is just not good enough for me. This fake, non-authentic stuff, is actually quite insulting, if you think about it. Someone thinks of you as a project to work on. I want the real thing, done for its own sake, like it was done with the other guy, and not for the sake of something else (saving a marriage). And, after the affair, it is simply not possible. I know each couple is different. And I am not judging others reconciling. But is reconciliation with a cheater really possible in an authentic way? It is catch 22. One the one hand, they can’t fix things unless they are trying, AND, on the other hand, they cannot really FIX it because they are trying (versus doing it for its own sake).

 

I know I may seem like a stickler. But infidelity puts you face to the face with an ugly truth: your partner had lied and fooled you. All this makes truth and authenticity even more important in your eye. And isn’t reconciliation (“the hard WORK”) an inherently contradictory effort? E.g., is it possible to reconcile away the fact that your spouse preferred another man to you and is someone who didn’t have moral qualms with becoming a cheater? Would you have married them had you known that they were capable of this? Of course, not. So why is now any different? You know it now about them. Why spend the rest of your life with such a flawed person. Yes, yes, I know we are all flawed beings. But infidelity is the cardinal sin of the marriage. There has to be lines. And you’d be crossing them with your forgiveness, at the cost of being inauthentic to yourself. So what? They deceived you, and now you are doing the same to yourself, deceiving yourself (Bargaining with reality)? Not me.

 

She says she never had feelings for the guy, and has chosen me not him. But the truth is, he is married, and not really available to her. And when I spoke to him, he said he was the one who broke it off, because he realized he loved his wife too much, and my wife was starting to become attached/possessive of her. So what, am I going to let myself become the second/safe/default choice to a cheater? A project for her to appease/placate me for the sake of something else? Even if that something else is a “noble” goal?

 

What do you think?

 

I agree with everything you say. When someone truly loves someone else, infidelity is never an option; anyone who says otherwise diminishes what true love is. I am proud that you came to that realization and are not going to be played by her; drop her to the curb where she belongs as she betrayed you. You don't have to live with her decision, she does; so don't pity her as she doesn't deserve any.

[fellini]

boy are you misreading this. i see her flirting. my wife has done this many times: once she even mentioned her stiletto's, yet she has never owned a pair. its her way of showing she is thinking of you.

 

as another suggested. SLOW DOWN. its a bad day or even week. you need more time to digest this.

 

Yes. My WW did the same a couple of times. I had to tell her that she was doing things to make me feel good that were, UNFORTUNATELY triggers for me, and so she understood. It was not her intention to activate these memories.

 

It seems to me that the biggest issues with this OP is the time factor. Whether or not 9 months is or isn't sufficient has less to do with the number of days and more to do with where his head is at.

 

Listening to his discourse about how he feels about his wife more or less "getting away with it" is clearly a sign that he is not past RECOVERY and into reconciliation. Not by a long shot. Reconciliation cannot really be said to be in effect if he is still holding a huge noose over the marriage all because of his indecision to allow this infidelity to be the difference or not.

 

OP. All you need to do is ask yourself

 

a) Do I see myself with this woman in 3 years? 5 years? Is that what I want?

 

b) Is my answer to that question based on an emotional state of anger, resentment, revenge, jealousy etc? If it is, then sure, you can leave, but I suggest you give your marriage 3 month blocks to reassess your emotional roller coaster. If you truly do not see yourself with her, begin a process of separation and or divorce, amicably. Because if your desire to leave is not based on transient emotional states, then you should be able to do this calmly and without remorse or regret.

 

I couldn't tell you the number of times I have wanted, said, decided, convinced myself to throw in the towel. But each and every time it passed or I refused to move on it when I asked myself if that was what i really wanted.

[elaine567]

you are NOT in acceptance, you are in anger. and it makes sense as 9 months is awfully fast to achieve all the stages.

 

as another suggested. SLOW DOWN. its a bad day or even week. you need more time to digest this.

 

I agree this is anger talking here, not acceptance.

If you didn't have kids I would say walk and keep walking, but with kids...

 

Seems that you and your wife got into the rut of no sex and reduced intimacy after the kids.

She was tired, feeling awful and unsexy after having and looking after kids, maybe sex was even painful, she didn't feel like sex. You were frustrated, you got nasty and mean (your own words), she lost emotional connection, she then didn't want to have sex with you.

Three years ago after her second child, feeling lonely, he came along and revived her.

You were the grumpy, "nasty" sex demander, and he was the fun, flirty, esteem booster - no contest.

I doubt she did this because she didn't love you, I guess she still loves you. I guess she did this because she was at home alone with 2 kids, bored and lonely with a man she probably felt didn't love her anymore.

 

As you have no evidence this was any more than a EA and your marriage was under huge pressure due to having the children, I suggest you take stock and do not rush into anything, you will regret later.

She IS trying to fix things here, perhaps you should just go with the flow and see where that takes you, instead of blowing everything to smithereens, due to your anger.

[Miss Clavel]

"I think in such situations forgiveness comes at a steep price. Loss of self-respect. What, someone can do this to me, and still have me? "

 

 

 

it wasn't so much that my ex "got it in" with some one else. it's the naked truth of how he treated me, what he really thought of me.

 

he seemed to think that i'm some kind of chump that he could discard. that he could keep the family, cut me out of it and paste his "soul mate girlfriend" in.

 

and like you, my in laws had some choice things to say.

 

my MIL told me, "if you really love him, you will forgive him and take him back".

 

to which i replied, "if he really loved me, we wouldn't be having this conversation".

 

 

 

 

good luck

[fellini]

my MIL told me, "if you really love him, you will forgive him and take him back".

 

to which i replied, "if he really loved me, we wouldn't be having this conversation".

 

There are millions of people who are not having that conversation and their spouses don't really love them.

 

Not cheating on someone is not a sign of deep love.

Nor is cheating on someone necessarily a sign that they do not love you.

 

We could just as well ask, if he didn't really love you, why does he want you to give him a second chance?"

 

And of course the answer has to be one that matters to the person involved.

I really do not think, if we look at the sheer volume and types of infidelity, at the individual stories, at the frequency in which waywards later want to return to their marriages, that we can make (or believe) in blanket statements like "If he loved you he wouldn't have cheated".

 

It sounds so simple to say that, but this site shows that it's anything but that black and white.

 

The question is "which is your story?", and "what do you want to do about it?"

 

I'm not giving my WW a second chance because she loves me, I am giving her a second chance because I love her. It starts there. But it doesn't end there. The truth of infidelity is that good people who love their spouses deeply can, and some do, cheat on those very spouses.

 

So do good people who do not really love their spouses, and cheat because they simply do not have the investment in their marriage that they pretend to have. I don't believe anyone on LS is able to make that distinction for me, for you, for OP or for anyone else but themselves.

 

I have never liked that cliche "If you really loved me you would do X for me", I find it closer to emotional blackmail than a truism by which to guide my heart. And more so when infidelity comes to mind.

[Mr Mind of Shazam]

What do you think?

I think you have clarity on the situation.

 

I will say this: remember, you can't read her mind so you really don't know what's motivating her. You can make a smart guess. You can come to reasonable conclusions. But you don't really know.