Working on marriage while having an affair?

[RoseVille]

 

Uhh no.

 

That's like someone saying they're working on losing weight while everyday they go to McDonald's and order 2 big mac meals or something.

 

I mean maybe in their mind they WANT to lose weight/work on the marriage but the actual real life actions are totally counterproductive towards that end.

What you said is exactly what it is: staying in marriage for kids and having affair for ego boost. That's not genuinely working on your marriage or improving anything about the marriage itself. It is making him feel good and boosting HIS ego but last I checked working on a marriage required that it's beneficial to both people in the marriage and it requires transparency and an honest go by both people with two feet in.

 

 

I can relate to the bolded. Too much.

 

Which is why I wonder if he's deluding himself.

 

Or if he's a narcissist.

 

Knowing him, I really don't think it's the latter, but who knows.

[RoseVille]

He didn't tell her. He knows her stance and is staying. She didn't hide her feelings. He needs to do the same. She should be given the choice to stay or not just like he has.

 

Yes, he did. He moved out for two weeks as a result. She posted all sorts of strange things on his FB in those two weeks about wanting to be the only one he wants. That was her "trying."

[jen1447]

And he's still sniffing around, and I'm like, "Um, go work on it."

 

Sex-sex-sex. It has the power to destroy the best, worst, or any intentions. No more powerful drive in existence. (Thank god!)

[purplesorrow]

Yes, he did. He moved out for two weeks as a result. She posted all sorts of strange things on his FB in those two weeks about wanting to be the only one he wants. That was her "trying."

 

So she knows about you?

[RoseVille]

So she knows about you?

 

No. She knows he was going to seek it (sex, connection, feeling desired AT ALL) elsewhere. I didn't know it at the time, but he did have his eyes on me (we were already close and spending time together as work-friends), but assumed I'd never go there with him. (Wish he was right...) She was trying to prevent him from going outside the marriage. Her efforts bought her some time, but months later when he saw it was all talk, that her desire for him was lacking, that she was "going through the motions" sexually, the A started.

 

I think her libido is probably normal, all other things being equal. Throw in the house, kids, all their activities and her own, and she is just... exhausted? Turns into, "OMG, you're such a horndog, get off me! I need sleep!" or "Fine, okay, just hurry up." Or when it comes to blow jobs, she'd just silently get on her knees in front of him while watching TV, and he'd be all "Woah! Yessss!" and she'd say something like, "Well, you said you needed this or you'd be leaving, so here you go." And then he couldn't stay hard, knowing it was a chore she was checking off the list.

[RoseVille]

Sex-sex-sex. It has the power to destroy the best, worst, or any intentions. No more powerful drive in existence. (Thank god!)

 

I know. Jesus, I know. Ugggghhhhh. He's one of the best I've ever had (and I've had a lot in my years ), and it's not the illicit nature of it that makes it that way, either. He's made me want things that were off-limits in the past.

[purplesorrow]

No. She knows he was going to seek it (sex, connection, feeling desired AT ALL) elsewhere. I didn't know it at the time, but he did have his eyes on me (we were already close and spending time together as work-friends), but assumed I'd never go there with him. (Wish he was right...) She was trying to prevent him from going outside the marriage. Her efforts bought her some time, but months later when he saw it was all talk, that her desire for him was lacking, that she was "going through the motions" sexually, the A started.

 

I think her libido is probably normal, all other things being equal. Throw in the house, kids, all their activities and her own, and she is just... exhausted? Turns into, "OMG, you're such a horndog, get off me! I need sleep!" or "Fine, okay, just hurry up." Or when it comes to blow jobs, she'd just silently get on her knees in front of him while watching TV, and he'd be all "Woah! Yessss!" and she'd say something like, "Well, you said you needed this or you'd be leaving, so here you go." And then he couldn't stay hard, knowing it was a chore she was checking off the list.

 

It's as I said, he didn't tell her he was actually with someone else. And you have no idea what it's really like, only his version. If he left, why didn't he stay gone?

[RoseVille]

The more I think about it, I don't know how he can find the very thing that's lost in his marriage *in* his marriage if he's getting it outside.

 

It's like, say he wanted his wife to be a better cook, to make meals that he enjoyed and nourished him, because all he's getting right now is bologna sandwiches. It's like him going out to eat without her every other night. I suppose he can still work with her at home about how to make this or that dish, but it's he more likely to like the dish that's at the restaurant around the corner where all the restaurant does it cook food. He's always going to like the restaurant's food better. No prep work, the ingredients are all available, there's no clean up, just eat.

[RoseVille]

It's as I said, he didn't tell her he was actually with someone else. And you have no idea what it's really like, only his version. If he left, why didn't he stay gone?

 

I can't go into details about why, as they will identify us more than I already have, but I know he's being honest with me. This was going on for a long time before even the EA part, and he told many people about it.

 

I use a lot of analogies, so imagine a firehouse, where you confide in your "family" there who you spend 3 days on with, about what's going on in your personal life, and playful ribbing/teasing happens from those you're closer to as a result. Those in our "circle of trust" have known about this for a while. It's been talked about for a long time around the veritable dinner table. He's been in a not-so-great-place in his M for a long time.

 

He went back each time he left because of his kids. They are young, and he cannot stand to be away from them anymore than he already is, and would be devastated financially if he left. He also sees a "glimmer of hope" that they could make it work.

[sandylee1]

Either, really.

 

During the A, he said they were working on it. I couldn't figure out how that was possible.

 

Then he ended the A, and said he really wanted to work on it. But it's clear he still has feelings (but then again, of course he would - you don't end something with someone that makes you feel good and immediately turn off the feelings, they take time to go away).

 

And he's still sniffing around, and I'm like, "Um, go work on it."

 

I don't see how one can actively be in affair and trying to work on your marriage. It just doesn't make sense and a WS

[Southern Sun]

Answering the original question:

 

NO NO NO

 

It's a contradiction, an impossibility. If you are really doing ONE, you cannot do the OTHER.

 

NO NO NO

 

Did I say no?

 

(Rose, I am afraid you are looking for reasons, justifications that you may even somehow "help" this MM by staying in an affair with him. Or maybe he is looking for those reasons. Or maybe you are "helping" him look for those reasons so you can keep on "helping" him. At the end of the day, all of the reasons are selfish and you will end up hurting three people - actually five, because I believe there are two children involved).

[RoseVille]

I don't see how one can actively be in affair and trying to work on your marriage. It just doesn't make sense and a WS

 

I guess it would depend on what you're "working on" in the M.

 

But if what you need to work on is finding the lost connection with your spouse, yeah, it doesn't make much sense.

[RoseVille]

Answering the original question:

 

NO NO NO

 

It's a contradiction, an impossibility. If you are really doing ONE, you cannot do the OTHER.

 

NO NO NO

 

Did I say no?

 

(Rose, I am afraid you are looking for reasons, justifications that you may even somehow "help" this MM by staying in an affair with him. Or maybe he is looking for those reasons. Or maybe you are "helping" him look for those reasons so you can keep on "helping" him. At the end of the day, all of the reasons are selfish and you will end up hurting three people - actually five, because I believe there are two children involved).

 

I can see why you'd think that, but I'm actually doing the opposite. I'm looking for, "He's crazy! That's not possible! He can only have one or the other!" It's my way of finding justification to stay away, not return.

[sandylee1]

Either, really.

 

During the A, he said they were working on it. I couldn't figure out how that was possible.

 

Then he ended the A, and said he really wanted to work on it. But it's clear he still has feelings (but then again, of course he would - you don't end something with someone that makes you feel good and immediately turn off the feelings, they take time to go away).

 

And he's still sniffing around, and I'm like, "Um, go work on it."

 

Sorry I didn't complete my message ........

 

I don't see how one can actively be in affair and trying to work on your marriage. It just doesn't make sense and a WS would be deceiving themselves to think otherwise. (See my tagline)

 

I hasten to add that as the AP you only get one side of the story of the marital issues. I bet the BS would see it very differently and if a WS would actively cheat on their spouse while MC was taking place, you have to know they are really being insincere. It makes MC a total joke TBH.

[MissBee]

Say the big hole in the marriage is sex and emotional intimacy, and that they've been in MC for a long time to discuss those areas and what's missing, very open and direct "this is a problem" type discussions, and yet there's been very little improvement, based on a "that's your issue" attitude from the wife (for WH wanting some more excitement in the otherwise bland/unsatisfying bedroom, and wanting her to initiate sometimes, both of which don't really improve), and "gives in" and says "fine!" and just "gets it over with" when they do engage...

 

...would the BW still be harmed/care if he's seeking fulfillment of the very thing that she's quite blatantly told him he's not going to get from her?

 

I'd say a couple things about this:

 

The counseling isn't working if they aren't coming to some mutual agreement, so they need to find a different counselor

 

OR

 

They need to decide what it will take to stay together and be happy for both of them. Is that an open R? Just not caring what the other does? Staying together for the kids? What?

 

But saying you're working on your marriage while secretly having an affair, regardless of if your justification is you're getting what your wife isn't giving, doesn't make sense.

 

Don't get me wrong, I get the frustration if one is in a situation where your spouse is refusing to work on things. At that point though you either get a new counselor that helps you to come to some agreement, or you decide it cannot be fixed. But saying you're working on your marriage doesn't make sense if you're still in an affair. You aren't working on anything, you're just staying and supplementing it on the side. The root of the problem isn't fixed, nothing new and different and mutual is happening...you've just decided to stay and do what you want on the low.

[Southern Sun]

Rose, I have to add, gently...he's told you that there's this big hole in his marriage, a lack of intimacy, sex, right? But I think you've said in previous posts that he's cheated before, right? He may claim that his lack of sex "caused" him to cheat? But that is SO cliche'. It is so so common that men cheat simply out of boredom, they look for something new, something different, or the opportunity simply presents itself. THEN suddenly HE is the one pulling back from the wife, or "can't stay hard" because the newfound variety or the new type of sex he was getting or the different type of body or even the guilt makes it difficult. Some guys suddenly get more interested in sex at home with affairs, and some go the opposite way. I'm just saying, you don't know if what he is saying is the absolute truth. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? He's cheated before, we know that's the truth. MM pass blame on their BWs all the time for this stuff. Just be aware that it's often proven not to be the case.

[RoseVille]

Sorry I didn't complete my message ........

 

I don't see how one can actively be in affair and trying to work on your marriage. It just doesn't make sense and a WS would be deceiving themselves to think otherwise. (See my tagline)

 

I hasten to add that as the AP you only get one side of the story of the marital issues. I bet the BS would see it very differently and if a WS would actively cheat on their spouse while MC was taking place, you have to know they are really being insincere. It makes MC a total joke TBH.

 

I have no doubt that she'd have her own host of issues/complaints with him that likely explain her behavior. They're inextricably linked.

[Southern Sun]

Tried to edit...

 

If I was his wife and I knew I had to perform a BJ under the threat that I MUST or my husband might just go elsewhere, I don't know how enthusiastic I would be either.

[RoseVille]

Rose, I have to add, gently...he's told you that there's this big hole in his marriage, a lack of intimacy, sex, right? But I think you've said in previous posts that he's cheated before, right? He may claim that his lack of sex "caused" him to cheat? But that is SO cliche'. It is so so common that men cheat simply out of boredom, they look for something new, something different, or the opportunity simply presents itself. THEN suddenly HE is the one pulling back from the wife, or "can't stay hard" because the newfound variety or the new type of sex he was getting or the different type of body or even the guilt makes it difficult. Some guys suddenly get more interested in sex at home with affairs, and some go the opposite way. I'm just saying, you don't know if what he is saying is the absolute truth. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? He's cheated before, we know that's the truth. MM pass blame on their BWs all the time for this stuff. Just be aware that it's often proven not to be the case.

 

Yes, he previously had an EA (not PA at all) about 2 years ago, and I suspect it was during a brief temporary assignment at another work location, with a different co-worker. I think this because he *refuses* to tell me who it was with, but assures me it was no one in our location.

 

I think his performance issues more recently have to do with both a lack of desire (because of her lack of desire, for whatever reason) as well as guilt.

 

He's also acknowledged he's contributed to their M problems, but from my perspective, some of that wasn't of his own doing (prior depression stemming from a layoff, for example).

[RoseVille]

Tried to edit...

 

If I was his wife and I knew I had to perform a BJ under the threat that I MUST or my husband might just go elsewhere, I don't know how enthusiastic I would be either.

 

Totally!

 

And I don't think their MC counselor helped much by telling them that his view on this ("I'm tempted by other women because you don't do this") is normal was all that helpful, either.

 

Then again, with any grievance, if you start doing better/improving, you're going to be a little resentful of "having" to do it, whether it's sex, chores, date nights, statements of appreciation, whatever.

[RoseVille]

I'd say a couple things about this:

 

The counseling isn't working if they aren't coming to some mutual agreement, so they need to find a different counselor

 

OR

 

They need to decide what it will take to stay together and be happy for both of them. Is that an open R? Just not caring what the other does? Staying together for the kids? What?

 

But saying you're working on your marriage while secretly having an affair, regardless of if your justification is you're getting what your wife isn't giving, doesn't make sense.

 

Don't get me wrong, I get the frustration if one is in a situation where your spouse is refusing to work on things. At that point though you either get a new counselor that helps you to come to some agreement, or you decide it cannot be fixed. But saying you're working on your marriage doesn't make sense if you're still in an affair. You aren't working on anything, you're just staying and supplementing it on the side. The root of the problem isn't fixed, nothing new and different and mutual is happening...you've just decided to stay and do what you want on the low.

 

That's just it.

 

I don't think the root of the problem is sex. It's the long-standing historical problems in their M that are creating the sex issues. I think he's trying to work on those issues, thinking they'll magically improve the sex. But when they even try to have sex now, there's a bitterness/resentment there, on both sides. So sex becomes the focus, but it's really just a symptom of a bigger problem. Just like the A is a symptom, not the problem.

[TaraMaiden2]

Some MC'ors will recommend the 'reluctant contributor' make regular dates with the more willing partner, as a means of building up intention and desire.

 

Can't see it myself, because I agree, feeling obligated to do something is the quickest turn-off ever....

[RoseVille]

Some MC'ors will recommend the 'reluctant contributor' make regular dates with the more willing partner, as a means of building up intention and desire.

 

Can't see it myself, because I agree, feeling obligated to do something is the quickest turn-off ever....

 

Yup. But it's like... a never-ending cycle. He needs to be able to express his needs, and that it's a need of his in order to be happy and want to stay in the M. She doesn't want to do it, but knows she needs to do it in order for him to be happy and stay in the M. So, she does it, but he knows she doesn't really want to. So then even though he's getting it, he's still unhappy.

 

Just as much as feeling obligated to do something is the quickest turn-off ever, so is knowing someone is doing something they really don't want to do just to appease you (whether you articulated the need or not). We want the desire to be genuine.

 

That's his main complaint of his W, and his main compliment of me: the desire isn't/is genuine.

[sandylee1]

I guess it would depend on what you're "working on" in the M.

 

But if what you need to work on is finding the lost connection with your spouse, yeah, it doesn't make much sense.

 

Very true. If you just want to play the two women and keep the marriage, then I guess it would work fine......but only fine for the WS.

 

Sorry to say this, but far too many MM are too weak to leave their 'bad' marriages and just end up causing too much pain to the women and children involved. It's very unfair.

 

Be strong Rose, I know it's not easy.

[MissBee]

That's just it.

 

I don't think the root of the problem is sex. It's the long-standing historical problems in their M that are creating the sex issues. I think he's trying to work on those issues, thinking they'll magically improve the sex. But when they even try to have sex now, there's a bitterness/resentment there, on both sides. So sex becomes the focus, but it's really just a symptom of a bigger problem. Just like the A is a symptom, not the problem.

 

 

Well....I'd leave them to work it out or not.

 

I'm just going to be honest and say that I don't quite understand the cases where OW are deeply enmeshed in MM's marital problems, in the sense that they are fully briefed on all his intimacy issues with his wife and all the rest and almost act as pseudo-therapist. That just wasn't the dynamic in my situation, and nothing about it is romantic to me lol, and even small stuff he occasionally said that made me remember she existed sent me into a tizzy much less if I was kept fully briefed of all their problems. I mean...for me that's a HUGE turn off. I guess for some it makes them "understand" or feel bad for the MM or something, or feel closer or like they help him or I dunno what truly, but for me it would make me sick. That's how the small mentions sometimes made me feel so I couldn't possibly have managed to listen to anything further.

 

The less I knew the better. If I knew more I'd just tell him to go fix all his problems and leave me out of it as I'd be so turned off by it. Which would be my advice to you ultimately. Let his man and his wife handle their issues and leave you out of it.