Affair revenge going way to far

[sandylee1]

Why would a WS need to seek revenge, and against whom? Surely they've already had their revenge against the BS through the affair?

 

Sorry. It was a mistype. I meant the OW / OM , not the WS.

 

They sometimes seek revenge when they get dumped.

[sandylee1]

One thing a BS could do that would be commensurate (tho I wouldn't actually recommend it either because spite/bad) is seduce and have an affair with the AP's spouse or partner or future either one. Perfectly legal and deeply ironic and no more or less than was done to them.

 

Funny you should say this. ...

 

I actually know a woman who had an affair with her best friends H. When the BW went to tell the OBS, he suggested they had an affair of their own. She declined his offer and remained in the marriage. It's madness.

[truncated]

Ditto in my country, and many others.

 

And aside from defamation, there is the question of privacy. In most civilised countries, there are legal provisions preventing people from disregarding the privacy of others in this way (all the more if any of the parties has minor children) - unless it is demonstrably in the public interest (such as a political figure). This extends to things like posting naked pictures of another person without their express permission, which is legally a form of assault.

 

It all depends upon the laws of the country involved.

 

 

Just for interests sake (as this is an interesting discussion) I did a bit of research online and through an attorney friend of mine.

 

The laws currently on the books here re: sending nude photos are vague. As it stands right now, and a big part of it is both who took the photos, where they are stored and also how they are used.

 

In many causes, the person who took the photos owns them ( in essence, they own the copyright) and can do with them as they wish, so long as it's not harassing someone.

 

If they are being used to threaten,blackmail or extort it's harassment. If they are being used as a statement of fact and sent as a "one off", it's not.

 

Sending them to someone's spouse, parents or other adults, is a really bad idea and in poor taste, but if it's done one time with something along the lines of " look at the photos I took of mary jane when we were having an affair" and it's not being used to blackmail or extort money or it's not illegal. A terrible idea, yes, but illegal, no.

 

If the photos are on a family computer or phone that the bs pays/helps pay for, again, ownership may attach, but it's a murky area.

 

From what I was told, the cases are very difficult to prosecute, and also difficult to remedy through civil action, and only a couple of number of civll cases have met with much succeess in this similar circumstances ( it's NOT the same as "revenge porn", though it may sound similar) as no threats are being made, no minors are in the photos.

 

( before i get an earful from people about how things are where they live, this is how it is where I live, and again, I am not saying any of this is a good idea or something people should do. I'm just discusisng the legalities of it)

 

I suppose the moral of the story goes back to the line of " don't send anything online you wouldn't want your mother to see":laugh:

[truncated]

Um...yeah, especially if you aren't even the betrayed spouse....

 

I suspect a certain amount of what makes shows like Jerry Springer so popular is also at play.

 

I don't understand why anyone would want to see that site, except maybe out of curiosity, then leave and never go back.

it's silly and seems like a huge waste of time.

[jen1447]

Funny you should say this. ...

 

I actually know a woman who had an affair with her best friends H. When the BW went to tell the OBS, he suggested they had an affair of their own. She declined his offer and remained in the marriage. It's madness.

 

I suspect he offered bc he thought it'd be "hawt."

[sandylee1]

It was the word mitigate that triggered me. If repeated neglect, rejection, belittling, etc do not mitigate the choice to have an A, then why does the choice to have an A mitigate someone else's violence?

 

I believe mitigation works both ways.

 

Many say it's black or white, but I wouldn't always agree.

 

If you berate, belittle, refuse intimacy and demean your spouse, then you should not act so surprised if they have an affair. It amazes me that BSs in these situations appear blindsided. I just wouldn't stay in such a marriage, because I refuse to be abused and disrespected like that.

 

Having said that, I just wouldn't be the AP, because despite how crap their marriage is, I'm not going to be on the receiving end of an angry BW.

[autumnnight]

I believe mitigation works both ways.

 

Many say it's black or white, but I wouldn't always agree.

 

If you berate, belittle, refuse intimacy and demean your spouse, then you should not act so surprised if they have an affair. It amazes me that BSs in these situations appear blindsided. I just wouldn't stay in such a marriage, because I refuse to be abused and disrespected like that.

 

Having said that, I just wouldn't be the AP, because despite how crap their marriage is, I'm not going to be on the receiving end of an angry BW.

 

I want to say I really appreciate this post. It sounds like your thoughts are very consistent, and that is a very good thing

[AlwaysGrowing]

Ditto in my country, and many others.

 

And aside from defamation, there is the question of privacy. In most civilised countries, there are legal provisions preventing people from disregarding the privacy of others in this way (all the more if any of the parties has minor children) - unless it is demonstrably in the public interest (such as a political figure). This extends to things like posting naked pictures of another person without their express permission, which is legally a form of assault.

 

And would public posting intimate details of a BS be met with the same long arm of justice? Or repeating information from a third party about them?

 

This is where I am confused by some.

 

It seems perfectly legal to post on the internet details about a BS...as long as one uses a username. Heck, I have even seen an AP post about how their MAP wanted to kill the BS. Is that not illegal? I know, that in my country, to have first hand knowledge and do nothing...there is a good chance..that you will be the one in jail.

 

If one expects their private business to be theirs alone...should one not afford others the same courtesy? Like I have stated...I can not count how many times an AP has discussed intimate details of the marriage...to be met with "you are only hearing MAP side of things..it might not be true". That is followed by...."this has been verified by a third party", "I read their texts", "I read their emails"...

 

How exactly is it okay in one circumstance and not the other?

 

Does it only count if it is being done TO you(general)?

How often do we discount this...if we are the one doing it?

 

Also, I have read the justification for doing it to others (BS), is "I don't like him/her", or "they hurt my MAP", or " I have no loyalty to them". Or versions of that.

 

So, while I agree...it is best to hold ourselves accountable and to act in a manner that we can maintain our integrity....I also recognize...that it should be a two-way street. One should not expect what they themselves refuse to give.

[autumnnight]

And would public posting intimate details of a BS be met with the same long arm of justice? Or repeating information from a third party about them?

 

This is where I am confused by some.

 

It seems perfectly legal to post on the internet details about a BS...as long as one uses a username. Heck, I have even seen an AP post about how their MAP wanted to kill the BS. Is that not illegal? I know, that in my country, to have first hand knowledge and do nothing...there is a good chance..that you will be the one in jail.

 

If one expects their private business to be theirs alone...should one not afford others the same courtesy? Like I have stated...I can not count how many times an AP has discussed intimate details of the marriage...to be met with "you are only hearing MAP side of things..it might not be true". That is followed by...."this has been verified by a third party", "I read their texts", "I read their emails"...

 

How exactly is it okay in one circumstance and not the other?

 

Does it only count if it is being done TO you(general)?

How often do we discount this...if we are the one doing it?

 

Also, I have read the justification for doing it to others (BS), is "I don't like him/her", or "they hurt my MAP", or " I have no loyalty to them". Or versions of that.

 

So, while I agree...it is best to hold ourselves accountable and to act in a manner that we can maintain our integrity....I also recognize...that it should be a two-way street. One should not expect what they themselves refuse to give.

 

If you cannot understand the difference between NOT using names on an anonymous forum and using REAL names publicly, then I don't know what to tell you.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Are they using usernames when discussing this with their friends? Is a WS exempt from this? Or do APs only discuss things anonymously with each other?

 

Like I said, most have no issue doing it...their only problem is when it is being done to them.

[velvette]

I know where this comes from. Libel is not the only offense that exists. True or not, this would constitute harassment in my state, AND defamation, even if it were true.

 

I know there is a widely held school of thought that exaggerates an intended directive that says spread as far and wide as you can and scorch the earth with the remains of the offenders.

 

If you want to have an actual reconciliation that is an actual marriage....ya might wanna think it through. Of course, if you just want an ugly divorce or a subservient, guilty spouse, then by all means, poster and ask to lie all you want.

 

Also - the ONLY person who has the right to do any of this, BTW, is the BS. If a BS wants to rent a billboard or post the offenders on this or that site, that is understandable. For some third party to do it is just....sad and weird and a bit disturbed.

 

I doubt the bolded is correct. The very definition of defamation is intentionally harming someones reputation with a statement that is false or that you should have known was false.

 

 

If its written its libel. If its spoken its slander. I doubt that varies in any civilized country.

[velvette]

I believe mitigation works both ways.

 

Many say it's black or white, but I wouldn't always agree.

 

If you berate, belittle, refuse intimacy and demean your spouse, then you should not act so surprised if they have an affair. It amazes me that BSs in these situations appear blindsided. I just wouldn't stay in such a marriage, because I refuse to be abused and disrespected like that.

 

Having said that, I just wouldn't be the AP, because despite how crap their marriage is, I'm not going to be on the receiving end of an angry BW.

 

 

While I don't condone the behavior described by either party in a M, it doesn't surprise me that people are blindsided when their spouse has an affair.

 

 

Its a comparison of apples to oranges.

 

 

The bad behavior is inside the marriage in plain view, upfront and "in your face", easily called what it is and the fact that is out in the open provides multiple options for dealing with it.

 

 

An affair is sneaky, hidden, outside the marriage and cant be dealt with at all unless you discover it.

 

 

Two totally different things and hence why it is always blindsiding.

[truncated]

Are they using usernames when discussing this with their friends? Is a WS exempt from this? Or do APs only discuss things anonymously with each other?

 

Like I said, most have no issue doing it...their only problem is when it is being done to them.

 

 

To see this, one only has to look at the ow/om section of this forum, or at the other websites that exist to discuss affairs.

 

While there are lots of ow and om who ask to not be shown personal and private information about the spouse, how many discuss it with their ap, how many see private texts, photos, emails or other items? How many hear lots of stories from the ws about their bs and how horrible he or she is? How many ow discuss this with other people? How many hear from the ws about how bad sex with the bs is, or other things about her/him that may or may not be true?

 

Why do some excuse this ( and even revel in it) while the bs is expected to just sit quietly back and not respond?

[cocorico]

And would public posting intimate details of a BS be met with the same long arm of justice? Or repeating information from a third party about them?

 

This is where I am confused by some.

 

It seems perfectly legal to post on the internet details about a BS...as long as one uses a username. Heck, I have even seen an AP post about how their MAP wanted to kill the BS. Is that not illegal? I know, that in my country, to have first hand knowledge and do nothing...there is a good chance..that you will be the one in jail.

 

If one expects their private business to be theirs alone...should one not afford others the same courtesy? Like I have stated...I can not count how many times an AP has discussed intimate details of the marriage...to be met with "you are only hearing MAP side of things..it might not be true". That is followed by...."this has been verified by a third party", "I read their texts", "I read their emails"...

 

How exactly is it okay in one circumstance and not the other?

 

Does it only count if it is being done TO you(general)?

How often do we discount this...if we are the one doing it?

 

Also, I have read the justification for doing it to others (BS), is "I don't like him/her", or "they hurt my MAP", or " I have no loyalty to them". Or versions of that.

 

So, while I agree...it is best to hold ourselves accountable and to act in a manner that we can maintain our integrity....I also recognize...that it should be a two-way street. One should not expect what they themselves refuse to give.

 

Are they using usernames when discussing this with their friends? Is a WS exempt from this? Or do APs only discuss things anonymously with each other?

 

Like I said, most have no issue doing it...their only problem is when it is being done to them.

 

To see this, one only has to look at the ow/om section of this forum, or at the other websites that exist to discuss affairs.

 

While there are lots of ow and om who ask to not be shown personal and private information about the spouse, how many discuss it with their ap, how many see private texts, photos, emails or other items? How many hear lots of stories from the ws about their bs and how horrible he or she is? How many ow discuss this with other people? How many hear from the ws about how bad sex with the bs is, or other things about her/him that may or may not be true?

 

Why do some excuse this ( and even revel in it) while the bs is expected to just sit quietly back and not respond?

 

There is a world of difference - morally and legally - between an anonymous discussion on a forum where most members are from a different country, and the kids of actions described earlier ("outing" the OW with publicly displayed posters, emails to managers and colleagues and parents, etc). I'm sure anyone with a modicum of intelligence understands that. I have never seen any OW post any identifying details of a BS on these forums or any other - though I have seen BWs post names and other identifying details of OWs on these forums (deleted by moderation when alerted).

 

On the "reading of emails" etc - perhaps if a WS shows an OW an email from the BS that was intended as confidential correspondence, the BS would have a claim against the WS. If the OW then went on an anonymous forum and posted about the contents of the email without identifying the BS, the BS would really struggle with any claim against the OW as they would first have to prove that they were the BS in question, and that the anonymous username was in fact held and operated on that occasion by the OW in question. I doubt LS hands out that kind of information willy-billy to any grumpy passing BS, especially without a subpoena.

 

I also know that in my particular case, the BW would have no grounds whatsoever. She deliberately left her crate of photos and letters lying on top of a heap of rubbish when she moved out, leaving it for us to clean up. If she didn't intend to invite all and sundry to read it, she'd have removed what she considered "private". She also knew her emails were autoforwarding to me during the D, because she was told by both of us. She could have stopped sending them at any time if she didn't want me to read them or triage them. So her claims would have been groundless as she was a willing participant in the sharing of information.

 

Even so, I haven't plastered her sordid history in any identifiable form anywhere, despite her behaviour crossing the line legally on several occasions.

[cocorico]

I doubt the bolded is correct. The very definition of defamation is intentionally harming someones reputation with a statement that is false or that you should have known was false.

 

 

If its written its libel. If its spoken its slander. I doubt that varies in any civilized country.

 

You'd be wrong.

[cocorico]

While I don't condone the behavior described by either party in a M, it doesn't surprise me that people are blindsided when their spouse has an affair.

 

 

Its a comparison of apples to oranges.

 

 

The bad behavior is inside the marriage in plain view, upfront and "in your face", easily called what it is and the fact that is out in the open provides multiple options for dealing with it.

 

 

An affair is sneaky, hidden, outside the marriage and cant be dealt with at all unless you discover it.

 

 

Two totally different things and hence why it is always blindsiding.

 

Not at all. Newton's Law states that every action has an equal but opposite reaction, so if you treat your spouse like **** (described earlier) how could you possibly be blindsided by an affair?

[sandylee1]

I want to say I really appreciate this post. It sounds like your thoughts are very consistent, and that is a very good thing

 

Thanks Autumnnight.

[sandylee1]

While I don't condone the behavior described by either party in a M, it doesn't surprise me that people are blindsided when their spouse has an affair.

 

 

Its a comparison of apples to oranges.

 

 

The bad behavior is inside the marriage in plain view, upfront and "in your face", easily called what it is and the fact that is out in the open provides multiple options for dealing with it.

 

 

An affair is sneaky, hidden, outside the marriage and cant be dealt with at all unless you discover it.

 

 

Two totally different things and hence why it is always blindsiding.

 

I would have thought that if you treat your spouse in those ways and expect them to be happy with it, you as the BS have a problem. It's common sense to know that demeaning someone would very likely cause a loss of self esteem and confidence. That not showing affection and being outright horrible to them will make them vulnerable to an affair. If anyone doesn't comprehend this, then their problems are bigger than the marriage itself.

 

Because one spouse does this nastiness in the open, doesn't mean the other won't do something on the sneak.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning affairs in any way shape or form. I read about a BW once who said their sex life was non existent for years, then he straight up said I've got a GF and I want a divorce. She said she knew things were bad, but was waiting till the kids left for college to rekindle things. That's utter nonsense IMO. When the H did not sign up for a sex less marriage and you choose to ignore it like this, you as the BW/BS seriously need to question your own thinking and reasoning.

 

Failing to realise the marriage is going downhill is just putting your head in the sand. I do expect that the other spouse should first communicate how they feel, seek counselling and discuss what it will take to put the marriage back on track.

 

In the same way you wouldn't leave a problem at work to blow up before trying to resolve it, why would you neglect your marriage in this way and not expect some fall out.

[waterwoman]

I read about a BW once who said their sex life was non existent for years, then he straight up said I've got a GF and I want a divorce. She said she knew things were bad, but was waiting till the kids left for college to rekindle things. That's utter nonsense IMO. When the H did not sign up for a sex less marriage and you choose to ignore it like this, you as the BW/BS seriously need to question your own thinking and reasoning.

 

Failing to realise the marriage is going downhill is just putting your head in the sand. I do expect that the other spouse should first communicate how they feel, seek counselling and discuss what it will take to put the marriage back on track.

 

In the same way you wouldn't leave a problem at work to blow up before trying to resolve it, why would you neglect your marriage in this way and not expect some fall out.

 

It isn't as simple as that. I don't believe that many partners deliberately decide to deprive their partners of sex for years and years. A short drought due to depression/illness/tiredness/small children* (delete as appropriate) just gets longer and longer for one reason or another. A phrase I've heard about a flagging sex life is 'use it or lose it' ie the longer you go without the harder is it to start up again. No-one is entirely happy about it but both partners are nervous to broach the subject in case they get rejected or complained at. Inertia also plays a part. So both parties believe the other is OK with the status quo because it's easier to do so than actually DO something.

 

"Failing to realise the marriage is going downhill is just putting your head in the sand" is true for both partners - and the one who f*cks someone else may ALSO be guilty of that just as much as the other partner.

 

It all comes down to a failure to communicate. If you are really unhappy SAY SO! Because however uncomfortable it might be for your partner to hear your complaints, it's far more painful to find out they have been unfaithful.

[truncated]

There is a world of difference - morally and legally - between an anonymous discussion on a forum where most members are from a different country, and the kids of actions described earlier ("outing" the OW with publicly displayed posters, emails to managers and colleagues and parents, etc). I'm sure anyone with a modicum of intelligence understands that. I have never seen any OW post any identifying details of a BS on these forums or any other - though I have seen BWs post names and other identifying details of OWs on these forums (deleted by moderation when alerted).

 

On the "reading of emails" etc - perhaps if a WS shows an OW an email from the BS that was intended as confidential correspondence, the BS would have a claim against the WS. If the OW then went on an anonymous forum and posted about the contents of the email without identifying the BS, the BS would really struggle with any claim against the OW as they would first have to prove that they were the BS in question, and that the anonymous username was in fact held and operated on that occasion by the OW in question. I doubt LS hands out that kind of information willy-billy to any grumpy passing BS, especially without a subpoena.

 

I also know that in my particular case, the BW would have no grounds whatsoever. She deliberately left her crate of photos and letters lying on top of a heap of rubbish when she moved out, leaving it for us to clean up. If she didn't intend to invite all and sundry to read it, she'd have removed what she considered "private". She also knew her emails were autoforwarding to me during the D, because she was told by both of us. She could have stopped sending them at any time if she didn't want me to read them or triage them. So her claims would have been groundless as she was a willing participant in the sharing of information.

 

Even so, I haven't plastered her sordid history in any identifiable form anywhere, despite her behaviour crossing the line legally on several occasions.

 

This isn't the only forum on the Internet, are there are many different forums, discussion groups, blogs, etc. where perosnal and identifying information IS given that the parties involved can easily be identified. It's put out there for the whole world to see.

 

Fwiw, I know of at least one ow on here who posted enough identifying information that I know where she lives, and given the size of the community she lives in and all the other info provided, have a pretty good idea of who she is and who the mm/bs are.

 

 

OT, since you brought it up, don't you find it a little weird to be screening and "triaging" your mm's emails? Why is he not able to do this himself? Why does he need you to for it for him?

Edited May 22, 2015 by truncated

[William]

Were going to close this one up for now until I have a chance to go through it. Some of you will be hearing from me later in the day. ~Thank you