Was it fair to break up after she lied about her extensive past?

[Got it]

It's not a double standard in this case, though. And years of loving the man? She lied for four years! I may sound harsh, but I met my husband at 15 and married at 19- teen girls are old enough to know that it's wrong to lie to people they love. I know she was young, confused, misguided and likely had some other issues going on. But OP should not be obligated to be with someone that lied to him like that. This is why it's not smart to lie- it destroys trust. This is a lesson we all learn. The fact that she was young and confused when she lied to him isn't going to bring the trust back.

 

 

 

 

We need to teach our daughters to be responsible. We need to make sure our daughters are aware of the potential judging of their actions and prepare them for this stuff. As women, I think we are so afraid to perpetuate the double standards that many of us don't even warn our daughters about them. Women have every right to complete sexual freedom, but this doesn't mean they are free from judgment. The harsh reality is that if a teenager has sex with 20 guys, she's going to be judged for it, even if it's politically incorrect. We are preparing our kids for the real world, not some dream world where everyone is understanding, fair, forgiving and there are no double standards.

 

We also need to teach our sons to respect women. Porn is at their fingertips and if they don't have male role models to talk to them about real sex and relationships, they'll learn how to treat women from pornhub. They see tons of porn where women crave sex without any kind of romantic connection. I don't think most are trying to railroad girls or hurt them, they just think women are as horny as they are. Many see sex as a mutual getting off session, so they don't see it as "using women".

 

We are telling young women that in the modern era they are sexually independent and free and can express their sexual desires, but then we expect boys to be the responsible ones and resist them because they might regret it years into the future?

 

 

 

The truth is that this "modern era" is still filled with sexism, racism, etc. There are so many judgmental people around, and it does our children a great disservice if we don't prepare them for that. My kids are mixed, and even though racism is not supposed to be a factor in their lives, it will be. That is just a reality of the world we live in, and its my job as a parent to prepare them for that. It's a modern era and its about time people stopped judging based on race, but that's just not realistic. In the same light, we can tell our daughters that people judging them for their sex life is wrong, but still happens a lot. I understand that women want to be accepted, and don't want their sexual past to be a factor, but the truth is that it is still very important to many men. I don't see this changing anytime soon.

 

It isn't fair that women are judged more harshly for their sex lives, but lying isn't the answer. That only feeds the perception that the behavior is wrong and should be hidden. The men that do think a "high number" is a red flag will just say they were right for judging her, because well, she lied. Guys aren't going to think "I was so judgmental that she felt the need to lie and I should forgive her". They will think "I can't believe it, her real # is 20! I was right, Her "number" IS a reflection of her character, because she's a liar, too". These guys have been told by their family or friends that promiscuity= questionable character and when a girl lies about it, it just proves him right (in his mind, anyway. I'm not saying I agree with that conclusion).

 

I do sympathize with the GF because she is very young, but I do not feel that OP is to blame for her lies.

 

So because people act sh*tty, and are judgmental, even unfairly, we should raise our children to kow tow to it? Really?

 

I agree, she shouldn't have lied. Lying is wrong. But so is judging people because someone see it as wrong to have slept with people because somehow that makes them shameful? Just because someone has an unhealthy and unfair view of sex, people, races, etc. doesn't mean I should have to bow under their narrow minded and bluntly wrong views. That only continues to perpetrate the viewpoint and the actions tied to it.

[Quiet Storm]

I see other double standards in play here, too.

 

If a young woman came on loveshack and said her BF's been lying to her for four years, what would we say? I'd expect the responses to be:

You deserve better

He's not worthy

Don't settle

 

Yet, here we have a very young man with his whole life ahead of him who just discovered his GF's been lying for four years, and I see things like:

You'll never find someone with similar values

Everyone has skeletons in their closets

You made her lie

 

 

This guy has his plenty of time to adjust his expectations or change his preferences as he matures. Maybe he won't find someone that meets all of his "ideals", but that doesn't mean he shouldn't try.

 

I don't think it's right to tell OP to lower his expectations, they aren't that unrealistic. There are still many young people who have only had sex within a serious relationship and still have conservative values about sex.

[Got it]

Honestly, when it first came up for years ago, the moment she felt like she needed to lie about who she used to be, that should have been her cue that this guy was not right for her. Then she wouldn't have had to tell him anything and be subjected to shaming and ridicule and rejection, she wouldn't have lied to him for four years, and he could have spent the time finding someone as pristine as he is to be with.

 

This. This would be her learning opportunity. She needs to look at accepting herself and her actions.

 

But feeling the need to change who we are to fit an ideal or an image is the biggest red flag to change direction.

[Quiet Storm]

So because people act sh*tty, and are judgmental, even unfairly, we should raise our children to kow tow to it? Really?

 

I agree, she shouldn't have lied. Lying is wrong. But so is judging people because someone see it as wrong to have slept with people because somehow that makes them shameful? Just because someone has an unhealthy and unfair view of sex, people, races, etc. doesn't mean I should have to bow under their narrow minded and bluntly wrong views. That only continues to perpetrate the viewpoint and the actions tied to it.

 

 

Warning your kids about judgmental and unfair people isn't "kow towing". It just makes them smarter and better prepared for the real world.

 

You can tell your kids that these kinds of judgments are unfair & wrong, but still give your kids the tools to cope with it.

[oldshirt]

So because people act sh*tty, and are judgmental, even unfairly, we should raise our children to kow tow to it? Really?

 

I agree, she shouldn't have lied. Lying is wrong. But so is judging people because someone see it as wrong to have slept with people because somehow that makes them shameful? Just because someone has an unhealthy and unfair view of sex, people, races, etc. doesn't mean I should have to bow under their narrow minded and bluntly wrong views. That only continues to perpetrate the viewpoint and the actions tied to it.

 

She never said a word about low towing to it.

 

She said people need to be aware of it and know that people will judge them for their actions, so chose your actions wisely.

 

People will judge. You have to be prepared to be judged and you have to be able to stand up and take accountability and justify your actions and people have to able to deal with the judgements of others - even if thise judgments are inappropriate.

 

Everyone has the right to screw dozens of people in their teens, but they need to be informed and aware that some people will judge them harshly for it and they will need to be able to stand up for themselves and deal with that judgment.

 

People have the right to be adult virgins or to wait untill marriage. But they too need to be informed and aware that some will judge them harshly for it and they also must be able to stand up and deal with that.

 

That is actually the opposite of low towing.

[oldshirt]

Warning your kids about judgmental and unfair people isn't "kow towing". It just makes them smarter and better prepared for the real world.

 

You can tell your kids that these kinds of judgments are unfair & wrong, but still give your kids the tools to cope with it.

 

We were posting at the same time.

 

This is what I was trying to say but Quiet said it better.

[Maleficent]

Well with my ex gf, I started by telling her about myself first and my views on sex (it was a kind of long conversation at the time because I wanted to be honest and felt comfortable). After telling her all that, that's when she told the lie.

 

In a way, I'm asking the girl but not into a directly ''so how many guys you been with'' all of the sudden question but rather an ''ok now that I told you about myself and views, tell me about yourself will ya''...

 

So you told her your views on sex outside of relationships first and you're surprized she didn't tell you the truth?

 

She was wrong for lying but I think you gave her the impression she couldn't tell the truth about her past for risk of losing you.

 

Not smart, but like I said earlier, slut shaming backfires.

[Got it]

Warning your kids about judgmental and unfair people isn't "kow towing". It just makes them smarter and better prepared for the real world.

 

You can tell your kids that these kinds of judgments are unfair & wrong, but still give your kids the tools to cope with it.

 

Okay different strokes for different folk. I was taught that people who judge are wrong and ignore them. Be proud of who you are and what you stand for and basically bugger off anyone who says otherwise.

 

So understanding/being taught that people judge does not any more prepare one to be judged than not being taught to understand it at all.

[oldshirt]

Okay different strokes for different folk. I was taught that people who judge are wrong and ignore them. Be proud of who you are and what you stand for and basically bugger off anyone who says otherwise.

 

So understanding/being taught that people judge does not any more prepare one to be judged than not being taught to understand it at all.

 

I strongly disagree. Ignoring those that judge you can mean ignoring potential employers, potential customers, potential lenders, potential educators, potential spouses, potential courtrooms and jurors, potential teachers of your children....the lists goes on and on.

 

Awareness of and the ability to address and deal with those who may judge you, gives you the opportunity to still function in a civilized society and remain a member of the community.

 

To have a policy of ignoring those who may judge you condems you to the sentence they may impose upon you.

 

To be able to stand up and state your case is the cornerstone of a civilized world.

[oldshirt]

So you told her your views on sex outside of relationships first and you're surprized she didn't tell you the truth?

 

She was wrong for lying but I think you gave her the impression she couldn't tell the truth about her past for risk of losing you.

 

Not smart, but like I said earlier, slut shaming backfires.

 

Stating that you value sex within the context of relationships is not slut shaming.

It's just stating how you view sexuality.

 

Now of course we don't know the verbiage he used or anything like that, but having a convo about sex and relationships etc is not in and of itself slut shaming.

 

And no matter how you slice it, she knew his values and sexual practices and she hid and lied about hers.

 

The question also needs to asked as to why she even wanted to go out with him since their lifestyles were so different? Why didn't she at that point address that their backgrounds and values etc were different and they weren't what each was looking for? Why didn't she address the incompatibility instead of hiding her past?

 

Why would a gal that screwed dozens of guys in her past even want to go out with a virgin with strong beliefs on sexuality in relationships if she didn't have some kind of agenda?

 

This is deeper than a gal that fudge a little on her score card. This was a deception that was being driven by some kind of motive.

[Maleficent]

Now of course we don't know the verbiage he used

 

Exactly, we don't. If she felt she had to lie to him, I wouldn't be surprized if the judgment came out in this conversation.

[lollipopspot]

I've never known a girl who was that promiscuous that early who didn't have sexual abuse in her past. That may help explain why she is the way she is. Guilt, shame, fear, trauma.

[Maleficent]

Stating that you value sex within the context of relationships is not slut shaming.

It's just stating how you view sexuality.

 

Now of course we don't know the verbiage he used or anything like that, but having a convo about sex and relationships etc is not in and of itself slut shaming.

 

And no matter how you slice it, she knew his values and sexual practices and she hid and lied about hers.

 

The question also needs to asked as to why she even wanted to go out with him since their lifestyles were so different? Why didn't she at that point address that their backgrounds and values etc were different and they weren't what each was looking for? Why didn't she address the incompatibility instead of hiding her past?

 

I don't know...maybe because she liked him and her sexual decisions in the past were in the past? Maybe at that point she was relationship minded? Why were they incompatible because of the number of people she slept with 'before' they met? Maybe at this point she had changed her mind about the casual sex and completely agreed that sex was between two partners only? Should she carry the weight of mistakes for her whole life?

 

Why would a gal that screwed dozens of guys in her past even want to go out with a virgin with strong beliefs on sexuality in relationships if she didn't have some kind of agenda?

 

How many posts of virgins show up here complaining women don't want them for their lack of experience? This woman was willing to go look beyond that and got burned for it.

 

This is deeper than a gal that fudge a little on her score card. This was a deception that was being driven by some kind of motive.

 

I didn't disagree on that. I personally stay the F* away from men who judge people based on their sexual past. But in this case, I'm trying to point out OP's responsibility in this story. Yes, she lied - because he didn't make her feel like the truth would be ok. And I agree the break up is best for both of them

 

 

Answers in bold.

[Timshel]

I feel like saying here "those without sin, cast the first stone."

 

Maybe some people make it to the end without any dating/relationship mistakes and I would like to shake their hand. I see this as a valuable lesson for both of them and thankfully, without any dire consequences.

 

Sorry dude that your gf betrayed your trust and impeded upon your core values. I think that you're going to be ok though. You are a smidge wiser and more experienced in the game of love now and you may find that your take away serves you well. Bonus.....her also.

[Noirek]

Having such an attitude towards past behaviour is your perogative. Doesn't bother me because the only person it limits is yourself. As to this situation, no one likes to be lied to. And her need to lie in order to be with you set you guys off on the wrong foot. Her still talking about only shows how true that is. I think she was human and no where near a villain. I also think you have some tendencies towards theatrics. you may want to work on that in order for future happiness. I would also like to point out your disturbance of her last smoking habit that she obviously beat before 18 is a terrible attitude to carry through life. To judge and look down on someone for something a minor as that? It will very likely set you up for a life of misery. I recommend therapy. And I don't recommend that often.

 

A little partying story. I was the best of behaved teenagers. I did not meet my husband and get married until mid twenties. Before marriage I lost my virginity to him. So much so that he was the only man I ever kissed. I never did drugs, got drunk, stole or smoked. I cheated on my husband. And continue to do so.

 

My past values mean nothing. Remind yourself of that.

[Rejected Rosebud]

It doesn't have to be fair, if it is something you can't accept and deal with then it's not going to work anyway.

[MrNate 2.0]

Hm.

 

These threads sure have been in full effect lately.

Edited May 19, 2015 by MrNate 2.0

[oldshirt]

And why would a person who has very limited dating experience have more? I disagree. Your dating/relationship creditiblity is not about the number of sexual partners, per say, but about how you handle and develop relationships. I don't think someone who has a larger number of sexual partners is a guarantee more "unhealthy" person in a relationship than someone that has low to none.

 

I think that is a stretch.

 

It's not about who has more or less dating experience in terms of credibility. It's about living a lifestyle that is congruent with what you say your values and beliefs are.

 

 

Actions always speak louder than words. If a person says they believe sexuality is something that should only be expressed within the context of serious relationships and they state that their core values are all about relationships and fidelity etc etc but the reality is they have had lots of ONSs and casual hook ups and FWBs etc, then they have no credibility because their actions and what they really do/did does not match their words.

 

 

It not that the person who has less dating experience is more credible due to the fewer numbers, but if someone says that they don't believe in casual hook ups and they don't believe in sex outside of serious relationships, then if their experience is that they have in fact not had any ONSs or FWBs or casual hook up and their only sexual experience has been within the confines of a serious relationship(s) then they have some credibility because their actions matched their words.

 

 

Same is true if someone says that they value freedom and don't want to be tied down to one partner and want to be able to explore their sexuality at will as the opportunities arise. If they have had lots of casual hook ups and ONSs etc, then they are credible because their actions match their words.

 

 

In this situation, the OP's exGF really has no credibility because her words and her actions were incongruent. She said one thing but had a lifestyle that was something completely different.

 

 

If a person says they believe in one thing, but they do something different, what they do is what counts.

[RedRobin]

Here's a question, OP... how long did you know this woman before you had sex with her? If you want someone who shares your values, you need to walk the walk... not just talk the talk and cross your fingers that the other person is telling the truth.

 

 

Sure, you were a virgin when you met her. Ok. But if you didn't know her that long, well, some could wonder if you were a bit too eager to believe the stories of someone you were attracted to without taking the time to see if her actions matched her words.

 

 

This is advice I give to both men and women seeking a committed relationship with someone who shares their values. Make sure they exhibit those values IRL first. Don't just take their word for it and dive in. After sex happens, things get a lot more complicated, as you've discovered.

[Noirek]

It's not about who has more or less dating experience in terms of credibility. It's about living a lifestyle that is congruent with what you say your values and beliefs are.

 

 

Actions always speak louder than words. If a person says they believe sexuality is something that should only be expressed within the context of serious relationships and they state that their core values are all about relationships and fidelity etc etc but the reality is they have had lots of ONSs and casual hook ups and FWBs etc, then they have no credibility because their actions and what they really do/did does not match their words.

 

 

It not that the person who has less dating experience is more credible due to the fewer numbers, but if someone says that they don't believe in casual hook ups and they don't believe in sex outside of serious relationships, then if their experience is that they have in fact not had any ONSs or FWBs or casual hook up and their only sexual experience has been within the confines of a serious relationship(s) then they have some credibility because their actions matched their words.

 

 

Same is true if someone says that they value freedom and don't want to be tied down to one partner and want to be able to explore their sexuality at will as the opportunities arise. If they have had lots of casual hook ups and ONSs etc, then they are credible because their actions match their words.

 

 

In this situation, the OP's exGF really has no credibility because her words and her actions were incongruent. She said one thing but had a lifestyle that was something completely different.

 

 

If a person says they believe in one thing, but they do something different, what they do is what counts.

 

You seem out of touch from reality a bit. People's values change. Perhaps she realized that sleeping around was more harmful than good for her. We don't know how long she was celibate before they met and started dating. She did not cheat on him as far as we know or smoke. Therefore her values probably were not the same as when she was 14. I am sure many people have different values from when they are teenagers.

 

But her lying was wrong and did far more harm than good to him than honesty would have. Maybe he wouldn't have dated her. But it would have been no loss to her. I only hope she learns that she does not need to lie or hide her past from the next love interest. That if some guy judges her for her past, a teenage past at that, then she is better off without him and he can go F*** himself, literally.

[autumnnight]

It's not about who has more or less dating experience in terms of credibility. It's about living a lifestyle that is congruent with what you say your values and beliefs are.

 

 

Actions always speak louder than words. If a person says they believe sexuality is something that should only be expressed within the context of serious relationships and they state that their core values are all about relationships and fidelity etc etc but the reality is they have had lots of ONSs and casual hook ups and FWBs etc, then they have no credibility because their actions and what they really do/did does not match their words.

 

 

It not that the person who has less dating experience is more credible due to the fewer numbers, but if someone says that they don't believe in casual hook ups and they don't believe in sex outside of serious relationships, then if their experience is that they have in fact not had any ONSs or FWBs or casual hook up and their only sexual experience has been within the confines of a serious relationship(s) then they have some credibility because their actions matched their words.

 

 

Same is true if someone says that they value freedom and don't want to be tied down to one partner and want to be able to explore their sexuality at will as the opportunities arise. If they have had lots of casual hook ups and ONSs etc, then they are credible because their actions match their words.

 

 

In this situation, the OP's exGF really has no credibility because her words and her actions were incongruent. She said one thing but had a lifestyle that was something completely different.

 

 

If a person says they believe in one thing, but they do something different, what they do is what counts.

 

So basically if you did something in your past, you cannot disagree with it now....because you did it. Wow, redemption, anyone?

 

Personally, I find multiple partners WITHIN marriage pretty twisted, but that;s just me.

[oldshirt]

 

People's values change. Perhaps she realized that sleeping around was more harmful than good for her.

 

 

We don't know how long she was celibate before they met and started dating.

 

 

She did not cheat on him as far as we know or smoke. Therefore her values probably were not the same as when she was 14. I am sure many people have different values from when they are teenagers.

 

 

True.

 

People's values, beliefs, attitudes etc do change and evolve over time.

 

If someone is 30 years old and had lived a certain way for the last ten years and had done some wild and crazy things in their teens, then they shouldn't be judged on their teen activities. We've all done stupid things in our teens.

 

However in this instance, it was very recent history. This was a case of an 18 year old lying and covering up the immediately previous 4 years of her life.

 

That is fundamentally different than a full grown adult with with multiple years of conduct under their belt.

[Maleficent]

True.

 

People's values, beliefs, attitudes etc do change and evolve over time.

 

If someone is 30 years old and had lived a certain way for the last ten years and had done some wild and crazy things in their teens, then they shouldn't be judged on their teen activities. We've all done stupid things in our teens.

 

However in this instance, it was very recent history. This was a case of an 18 year old lying and covering up the immediately previous 4 years of her life.

 

That is fundamentally different than a full grown adult with with multiple years of conduct under their belt.

 

Will all due respect, you are not in a position to decide whether or not a person's change of core value is legitimate or not (other than your own of course).

[Blackeagledan]

Did you ever ask what it was that you wouldn't understand? There could be more to the story than just a "colorful history".

As much as there might be much more to her history and I were to listen to a sad story about her early years and possible abuse as someone mentioned, that doesn't excuse someone from making the decision of lying your way to get into a relationship and making that person invest years into it.

 

In a way, I don't need to understand any justification she might make. Yes, she is right that I won't understand and why should I? Imagine if in court, the offender tries to come up with his/her bad childhood story; I get it's sad (and the abuser would deserve getting locked up) but even that wouldn't allow them to walk away and they would still be held responsible for their actions. For me is enough that she isn't the girl I was looking forward to settling down.

[Blackeagledan]

As for how long we were together before losing it; we were on the 4th month of the relationship at the time.

By the age of 30, I expect to already be a married man with kids.