Was it fair to break up after she lied about her extensive past?

[oldshirt]

Just telling someone you're a virgin doesn't tell them anything about your values. But now, if you told her for religious reasons you remained a virgin, then that's different, but it's not like you saved yourself for marriage. Neither of you did, so...

 

Why are you assuming he didn't discuss this with her?

 

It sounds like she was putting in good effort to keep her past from him so that implies she did know how important it was to him.

[RedRobin]

I'm with you in wanting someone who shares my values and wanting the right to make a choice.

 

That said, you need to develop the ability to get people to trust that their secrets are safe with you. She didn't trust you. She might have some reasons not to.

 

I am not saying you deserved to be lied to... Just that a judgemental and condescending attitude will inspire lots of people to fudge. I never ask people questions they can easily lie about. I observe how they treat others and how they conduct their daily lives.

 

Those people who have a history of poor judgement often make a habit of that in other areas of their lives... Are impulsive and can be destructive. Poor sexual decisions in ones youth can be instructive (ie, they learn something about their true values and what not to do) or destructive.

 

There are plenty of late blooming virgins who become promiscuous later on. The important thing is finding someone who shares your values. Unfortunately for your girlfriend, she kind of eliminated the possibility of having that conversation by clouding the issue with deception... And she is acting like she has something to be ashamed about instead of owning it and moving forward.

 

You feel robbed, but she has robbed herself too. Unfortunate for both of you.

[RedRobin]

Our grandmother's new that promiscuous women had trouble getting decent husbands with strong convictions. the women of this generation seem to have trouble grasping that concept for some reason.

 

Lots of our grandmothers supported the double standard almost as much as our grandfathers.

 

Smart women these days are wise to look hard at today's men and also dump the ones who don't share their values, whatever they are. No woman needs to live with a player... Nor should she feel the need to hide behavior that lots of men give themselves a free pass for.

 

Long story short, women have every right to learn and grow just like men get to. They don't have to settle nor should they feel the need to lie. Most people just want honesty and consistency... And the ability to choose.

[ascendotum]

I told her because I find honesty about your past important to me. If I'm in a relationship and want someone with those same values, I'm not just going to talk about trivial topics.

What will you do or assume if the next few girls you meet refuse to tell you about how many guys they have been with (they say its their private info)?

If she had deleted that confessional email you saw you would be none the wiser, and many girls will take that chance on not being so careless.

[oldshirt]

While I agree with you in principle, How can you conclude that when this 14 year old girl lost her virginity she was expressing her core values, or lack thereof? I think she a misguided teen who succumbed to peer pressure. She has since grown up & now at 22, while struggling to find a way to come clean to the OP was learning what core values are.

 

she was with 20+ guys (that he knows of) from when she was 14 until she started dating him at 18 (assuming she hasn't had any more since she started seeing him) That's not 'misguided', that is a lifestyle.

 

 

Now she may have matured and may have made the choice to be in an ongoing relationship instead of being a party favor at every frat party, but her lifestyle right up until she was with him was vastly different than his and vastly different than what he wants in a partner.

 

 

And due to the effort she put in to deceive him indicates that she knew her lifestyle was incompatible with what he wanted and she went through effort to hide it from him and to lie to him.

[jen1447]

Haha oldshirt - you betray your judgmentalness. I thought I saw that creeping around the edges earlier.

 

Now she may have matured and may have made the choice to be in an ongoing relationship instead of being a party favor at every frat party,

[oldshirt]

Haha oldshirt - you betray your judgmentalness. I thought I saw that creeping around the edges earlier.

 

 

 

I just talk rough to make a point at times.

 

 

We've all done things we probably should not have. And we all make judgments whether we want to or not.

 

 

My "judgmentalness" (if that is even a real word LOL) in this particular scenario is based on the degree of deception. There are a lot of cases where some gal has told some guy that she's been with a couple BFs and maybe a couple ONSs and it turns out it was really 3 or 4 BFs and a few other ONSs that she conveniently left out and now he's having some issue over and people are telling him to chill out.

 

 

In this case though it's not just normal downplaying and rugsweeping of a few romps in the hay that she'd rather forget. It was an intentional and deliberate misrepresentation of her lifestyle and core values and beliefs. This wasn't just fudging a little on the numbers and context. It was continued lying and deception and she was seeking counseling from someone else on how to continue the deception indefinitely.

 

 

Yeah, I have some judgment of that.

[aussietigerwolf]

She'll be better off... Sure she wasted 4 years but when someone can so callously dump a person and whine those 4 years was wasted, meant nothing and wished had never happened. That is certainly a bullet dodged. How is the poor op going to cope now when he finds a woman like him? He is now tainted forever...

[No Limit]

You shouldn't take people of your own age that seriously in relationships. That's why I'm staying out of them. But yeah, I don't think it was a bad idea to break up with her - what begins with a lie won't end well anyway and chances are you saved your next 4 years from her.

[elaine567]

She'll be better off... Sure she wasted 4 years but when someone can so callously dump a person and whine those 4 years was wasted, meant nothing and wished had never happened. That is certainly a bullet dodged. How is the poor op going to cope now when he finds a woman like him? He is now tainted forever...

 

That is my feeling too.

Years of loving the man, reduced to nothing over essentially male double standards.

 

She, like a lot of young women today feel railroaded into sexting whilst very young, railroaded into losing their virginity, railroaded into sleeping around and then when something serious pops up, railroaded into denying that past, else be judged as a slut.

The sexualisation of very young women by society heaps pressure on them to perform sexually, but punishes them later, when the same young men - happy to mess around - are then looking for near-virgins to settle down with.

The OP may not have messed around personally, but he keyed into the "looking for near virgins" mantra, when he looked for a "serious" mate.

She was totally correct when she said "he won't understand", but surely in this modern era, it is time that men do understand, and then women would not need to lie about their past.

 

I agree with oldshirt in that the numbers talk, is never really a good idea, it almost always ends badly.

Mention an ex bf/gf - yes.

Mention an ex- husband/wife - yes, but once it gets into ONSs, casual, threesomes, FWBs, frat parties, orgies, hookers, strippers etc. it all tends to get really upsetting for one or both, and does nothing for most relationships.

[Blackeagledan]

Just telling someone you're a virgin doesn't tell them anything about your values. But now, if you told her for religious reasons you remained a virgin, then that's different, but it's not like you saved yourself for marriage. Neither of you did, so...

I might not be religious (agnostic to be exact) but saving it for a relationship with someone you can relate to and planned to settle down at some point before finding out all this is just as meaningful too.

[Blackeagledan]

She'll be better off... Sure she wasted 4 years but when someone can so callously dump a person and whine those 4 years was wasted, meant nothing and wished had never happened. That is certainly a bullet dodged. How is the poor op going to cope now when he finds a woman like him? He is now tainted forever...

Perhaps it was kind of overdone but I was angry and devastated by then. It was my reaction of getting deceived all those years, dating someone who wasn't who they said they were..

 

If I were mean, I would have been probably telling others. Now that I'm not doing.

 

I have no problems with telling the next girl that I was in a relationship. That's being honest and letting her choose, what I didn't have a chance to at the time.

[ascendotum]

That is my feeling too.

Years of loving the man, reduced to nothing over essentially male double standards.

 

She, like a lot of young women today feel railroaded into sexting whilst very young, railroaded into losing their virginity, railroaded into sleeping around and then when something serious pops up, railroaded into denying that past, else be judged as a slut.

 

You are adding in extra to his story. In the OPs situation there is no double standard. He wanted someone very similar to him. As for the railroading, that's just adding in extra embellishment to make her look like a victim in this story. Out of the 25 odd guys she's been with she picked the wrong guy for her bf. I think he has the right to split up with her but I think he is over reacting on demonizing her and acting like he was robbed of 4 yrs.

[Blackeagledan]

That is my feeling too.

Years of loving the man, reduced to nothing over essentially male double standards.

Where I'm I applying the male double standard? I clearly stated how I think changing partners after partners isn't the norm for either gender. It means you could have type of bonding issues and your thoughts and views are totally different.

[SJS]

She was confiding in her friend (who clearly knows about it) about her past and feeling guilty about how she lied about only being with a past bf and this is what killed me more in her following sentence ''He won't understand, I took his virginity, had to lie''. It came out that her number was somewhere in the 20's and that she first had sex at the age of 14.

Did you ever ask what it was that you wouldn't understand? There could be more to the story than just a "colorful history".

[Blackeagledan]

What will you do or assume if the next few girls you meet refuse to tell you about how many guys they have been with (they say its their private info)?

If she had deleted that confessional email you saw you would be none the wiser, and many girls will take that chance on not being so careless.

Well with my ex gf, I started by telling her about myself first and my views on sex (it was a kind of long conversation at the time because I wanted to be honest and felt comfortable). After telling her all that, that's when she told the lie.

 

In a way, I'm asking the girl but not into a directly ''so how many guys you been with'' all of the sudden question but rather an ''ok now that I told you about myself and views, tell me about yourself will ya''...

[davidromero43]

Well now that the big "V" is out of the way. You can experience a smorgasbord of women.

[Blackeagledan]

Well now that the big "V" is out of the way. You can experience a smorgasbord of women.

I don't sleep around, not interested in casual sex. Just because it's gone doesn't mean my views towards sex is changing.

[oldshirt]

Well with my ex gf, I started by telling her about myself first and my views on sex (it was a kind of long conversation at the time because I wanted to be honest and felt comfortable). After telling her all that, that's when she told the lie.

 

In a way, I'm asking the girl but not into a directly ''so how many guys you been with'' all of the sudden question but rather an ''ok now that I told you about myself and views, tell me about yourself will ya''...

 

The catch with that is very very few people, especially women, will outright admit to casual attitudes and beliefs regarding sexuality and sexual conduct. The vast majority of women will say that they value relationships and believe that sex should be within the context of relationships blah blah blah....regardless of how many dudes they have blown in bathroom stalls in bars.

 

Men do the same thing, I don't want to come off as sounding sexist. Even the most shameless playa' will downplay and rugsweep how much of his energies are being devoted to simply chasing tail.

 

No matter how you slice it, actions speak louder than words. Someone who has screwed half the campus is going to have no credibility when they say that they are relationship oriented even if they feel sincere at the time they are saying it.

[Got it]

I don't sleep around, not interested in casual sex. Just because it's gone doesn't mean my views towards sex is changing.

 

Listen OP, people are going to disappoint you, people are going to have skeletons in their closest, that is the point to dating. Even if she didn't have her sexual past, she easily could have had sex with you and a month later tell you she wanted to date others and I think you would have had a similar complaint. You want people to be exactly what you want them to be and deviation is hard.

 

I get that. I do think you may struggle a little with that but that is the point of dating. You don't have to have sex with a lot of people but you really should date.

 

I understand to a degree, I have had sex with two people in my life and married both of them. But there are silver linings to all backgrounds and, to be perfectly honest, I like that my husband has experience where my ex and I were virgins. I like that he has had other women "train" him as it helps better in the bedroom. I like that he has a past to have learned lessons from.

 

Sometimes it is weird for me to think about him with more than just his ex wife, as that is such a novelty to me, but I don't see it has good or bad. It just is.

 

I am sorry she lied. I think some compassion all around is always helpful and maybe feel sorry for her about the shame of feeling like she needed to hide who she is. Learn from it, grow from it, and get out there and experience life.

 

Rarely is the person you first sleep with is the person you marry. And even rarer is it the person you die with. That is just life and it will throw you some curve balls like that.

[oldshirt]

Rarely is the person you first sleep with is the person you marry.

 

.

 

 

And thank God for that!!!!!!

 

I thought my first love was "the one," and when she done me wrong I was devastated and thought I had lost my one chance at true love.

 

A few years later after getting out and dating (and having sex with) several more women, I was thanking my lucky stars to have dodged that bullet.

 

And looking back now 30 years later I cringe at the very thought of what couldve happened if I had married her like I wanted to at that time.

 

I reccognize she is a good person and I hold no ill will, but I know now she was completely and totally wrong for me.

 

You only learn that by getting out and experiencing life and getting to know a variety of different kinds of peoples.

[Quiet Storm]

That is my feeling too.

Years of loving the man, reduced to nothing over essentially male double standards.

 

It's not a double standard in this case, though. And years of loving the man? She lied for four years! I may sound harsh, but I met my husband at 15 and married at 19- teen girls are old enough to know that it's wrong to lie to people they love. I know she was young, confused, misguided and likely had some other issues going on. But OP should not be obligated to be with someone that lied to him like that. This is why it's not smart to lie- it destroys trust. This is a lesson we all learn. The fact that she was young and confused when she lied to him isn't going to bring the trust back.

 

 

She, like a lot of young women today feel railroaded into sexting whilst very young, railroaded into losing their virginity, railroaded into sleeping around and then when something serious pops up, railroaded into denying that past, else be judged as a slut.

 

We need to teach our daughters to be responsible. We need to make sure our daughters are aware of the potential judging of their actions and prepare them for this stuff. As women, I think we are so afraid to perpetuate the double standards that many of us don't even warn our daughters about them. Women have every right to complete sexual freedom, but this doesn't mean they are free from judgment. The harsh reality is that if a teenager has sex with 20 guys, she's going to be judged for it, even if it's politically incorrect. We are preparing our kids for the real world, not some dream world where everyone is understanding, fair, forgiving and there are no double standards.

 

We also need to teach our sons to respect women. Porn is at their fingertips and if they don't have male role models to talk to them about real sex and relationships, they'll learn how to treat women from pornhub. They see tons of porn where women crave sex without any kind of romantic connection. I don't think most are trying to railroad girls or hurt them, they just think women are as horny as they are. Many see sex as a mutual getting off session, so they don't see it as "using women".

 

We are telling young women that in the modern era they are sexually independent and free and can express their sexual desires, but then we expect boys to be the responsible ones and resist them because they might regret it years into the future?

 

The sexualisation of very young women by society heaps pressure on them to perform sexually, but punishes them later, when the same young men - happy to mess around - are then looking for near-virgins to settle down with.

The OP may not have messed around personally, but he keyed into the "looking for near virgins" mantra, when he looked for a "serious" mate.

She was totally correct when she said "he won't understand", but surely in this modern era, it is time that men do understand, and then women would not need to lie about their past.

 

The truth is that this "modern era" is still filled with sexism, racism, etc. There are so many judgmental people around, and it does our children a great disservice if we don't prepare them for that. My kids are mixed, and even though racism is not supposed to be a factor in their lives, it will be. That is just a reality of the world we live in, and its my job as a parent to prepare them for that. It's a modern era and its about time people stopped judging based on race, but that's just not realistic. In the same light, we can tell our daughters that people judging them for their sex life is wrong, but still happens a lot. I understand that women want to be accepted, and don't want their sexual past to be a factor, but the truth is that it is still very important to many men. I don't see this changing anytime soon.

 

It isn't fair that women are judged more harshly for their sex lives, but lying isn't the answer. That only feeds the perception that the behavior is wrong and should be hidden. The men that do think a "high number" is a red flag will just say they were right for judging her, because well, she lied. Guys aren't going to think "I was so judgmental that she felt the need to lie and I should forgive her". They will think "I can't believe it, her real # is 20! I was right, Her "number" IS a reflection of her character, because she's a liar, too". These guys have been told by their family or friends that promiscuity= questionable character and when a girl lies about it, it just proves him right (in his mind, anyway. I'm not saying I agree with that conclusion).

 

I do sympathize with the GF because she is very young, but I do not feel that OP is to blame for her lies.

[oldshirt]

It's not a double standard in this case, though. And years of loving the man? She lied for four years! I may sound harsh, but I met my husband at 15 and married at 19- teen girls are old enough to know that it's wrong to lie to people they love. I know she was young, confused, misguided and likely had some other issues going on. But OP should not be obligated to be with someone that lied to him like that. This is why it's not smart to lie- it destroys trust. This is a lesson we all learn. The fact that she was young and confused when she lied to him isn't going to bring the trust back.

 

 

 

 

We need to teach our daughters to be responsible. We need to make sure our daughters are aware of the potential judging of their actions and prepare them for this stuff. As women, I think we are so afraid to perpetuate the double standards that many of us don't even warn our daughters about them. Women have every right to complete sexual freedom, but this doesn't mean they are free from judgment. The harsh reality is that if a teenager has sex with 20 guys, she's going to be judged for it, even if it's politically incorrect. We are preparing our kids for the real world, not some dream world where everyone is understanding, fair, forgiving and there are no double standards.

 

We also need to teach our sons to respect women. Porn is at their fingertips and if they don't have male role models to talk to them about real sex and relationships, they'll learn how to treat women from pornhub. They see tons of porn where women crave sex without any kind of romantic connection. I don't think most are trying to railroad girls or hurt them, they just think women are as horny as they are. Many see sex as a mutual getting off session, so they don't see it as "using women".

 

We are telling young women that in the modern era they are sexually independent and free and can express their sexual desires, but then we expect boys to be the responsible ones and resist them because they might regret it years into the future?

 

 

 

The truth is that this "modern era" is still filled with sexism, racism, etc. There are so many judgmental people around, and it does our children a great disservice if we don't prepare them for that. My kids are mixed, and even though racism is not supposed to be a factor in their lives, it will be. That is just a reality of the world we live in, and its my job as a parent to prepare them for that. It's a modern era and its about time people stopped judging based on race, but that's just not realistic. In the same light, we can tell our daughters that people judging them for their sex life is wrong, but still happens a lot. I understand that women want to be accepted, and don't want their sexual past to be a factor, but the truth is that it is still very important to many men. I don't see this changing anytime soon.

 

It isn't fair that women are judged more harshly for their sex lives, but lying isn't the answer. That only feeds the perception that the behavior is wrong and should be hidden. The men that do think a "high number" is a red flag will just say they were right for judging her, because well, she lied. Guys aren't going to think "I was so judgmental that she felt the need to lie and I should forgive her". They will think "I can't believe it, her real # is 20! I was right, Her "number" IS a reflection of her character, because she's a liar, too". These guys have been told by their family or friends that promiscuity= questionable character and when a girl lies about it, it just proves him right (in his mind, anyway. I'm not saying I agree with that conclusion).

 

I do sympathize with the GF because she is very young, but I do not feel that OP is to blame for her lies.

 

 

Very we'll said. Every word. Right on the money.

[Got it]

The catch with that is very very few people, especially women, will outright admit to casual attitudes and beliefs regarding sexuality and sexual conduct. The vast majority of women will say that they value relationships and believe that sex should be within the context of relationships blah blah blah....regardless of how many dudes they have blown in bathroom stalls in bars.

 

Men do the same thing, I don't want to come off as sounding sexist. Even the most shameless playa' will downplay and rugsweep how much of his energies are being devoted to simply chasing tail.

 

No matter how you slice it, actions speak louder than words. Someone who has screwed half the campus is going to have no credibility when they say that they are relationship oriented even if they feel sincere at the time they are saying it.

 

And why would a person who has very limited dating experience have more? I disagree. Your dating/relationship creditiblity is not about the number of sexual partners, per say, but about how you handle and develop relationships. I don't think someone who has a larger number of sexual partners is a guarantee more "unhealthy" person in a relationship than someone that has low to none.

 

I think that is a stretch.

[autumnnight]

Honestly, when it first came up for years ago, the moment she felt like she needed to lie about who she used to be, that should have been her cue that this guy was not right for her. Then she wouldn't have had to tell him anything and be subjected to shaming and ridicule and rejection, she wouldn't have lied to him for four years, and he could have spent the time finding someone as pristine as he is to be with.